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Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Beast still holds an important place in my heart, mostly as a source of schadenfreude.

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Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Doresh posted:

I'm really dreading the fiction anthology. Is there really a market for a whole book ok full of gringeworthy edgelord prose featuring squid tumblrina and friends?

(OK, I'd probably read that if you hold a gun against my head and give me the choice between that and anthing by Soto...)

Beast is the #2 best seller on Drive Thru Rpg behind a V20 product, proving that the wretched MRAs of the Something Awful forums cannot stop progress.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Night10194 posted:

I mean Beast is basically everything an oWoD fan would want in a game.

It is, quite literally, everything I could want in a game I'd probably not play.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Alien Rope Burn posted:

Well, being a big DriveThru seller is not necessarily the highest bar to leap over, so I wouldn't despair too much. #5 is Absolute Adventures: Sewers Under Sandwall.

Build'a'Bear workshop but with monster's****
This books works really well with cross over campains, npc creation for different and unique nasties, and for new player introductions to the world of darkness.As it allows you to bring in any new player with them having minimal knowledge into any going campain. Allowing them to learn as they play and transition later on; all while letting them feel unique and powerful with out being overpowered so they can have fun with more advanced player characters.
That's really where this book shines.
Other then that it really doesn't add a whole lot to the WORLD or lore of WoD if that's what your looking for. Its Kind of the opposite of demon the decent in that regard.

(Aside from all that, I'm really liking "Demon the Decent" way more than I ought)

Kurieg posted:

A thing to remember about Beast products is that there is a certain amount of work that they are required to do as per their Kickstarter and work that was already in place by the time the final version of Beast came out. I don't imagine there will be much else coming out unless they pull a Demon and release a Storyteller's guide that includes alternate settings where Beasts either admit their monstrosity or have better justification.

I heard that the alt setting for Beast gonna be set in the Reconstruction Era South? I could just be remembering a wacky rumor though.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Night10194 posted:

Beast is a game whose author is determined to find and step on every single landmine.

It's great because they redid it at least once due to all the complaints, but that didn't work because everyone's first impression was terrible.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


When I was gaming with some friends in college, I went into 7th Sea expecting a Princess Bride pastiche and hijinks, and god-drat it, that's how I ran it.

So I had things like the head of the Inquisition in Castille explain all his plans to a PC from Eisen while the latter was suspended over a pool of sharks.

The Grand Inquisitor was basically Cardinal Richelieu as played by Tim Curry. He also vowed: "and once I am Heirophant of the Vaticine Church, I will declare war on the Objectionists and reignite the War of the Cross. Just to gently caress with you, specifically!"

So anyways, I deeply disappointed the two players who actually knew the setting and we all played something else after about three sessions. :shobon:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Monathin posted:

Yeah, I'm not sure if I entirely agree with you, but I get it. It's like. We know Alchemicals and Infernals are still a thing. We know that they're going to probably get a book. But at the same time I can see OPP not wanting to put them in a book because they already have to write up two new Exalted types (Liminals and Exigents), and they're likely having to rewrite Infernals from the ground up to not alienate their audience, and rewrite Sidereals due to the fact that John Chambers actively sabotaged their 2e splat.

So on one hand, I can see them not wanting to put the rest in due to the idea that theyve got more to work on that theyre putting front and center. On the other, it's still kind of really loving frustrating.

It's also possible that the other splats may not be getting their own, singular book, but rather have shorter setting fluff/rules/charm text and share a book with one or two other splats.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Alien Rope Burn posted:

Kind of surprised you didn't bring up the Southeast, since that's the biggest expansion to the setting. Really, the map expansion is probably the biggest improvement in the new edition, IMO. I wish they had given themselves more room to write setting material, because I think it's where this edition could have really distinguished itself more.

I wish I could make a compliment for Ex3 without it sounding backhanded, but there you have it. It's kinda positive! :downs:

Mhmmm I honestly think that, more than the map expansion, the combat and social systems, along with maybe sorcery, are probably the best new things. They work well, in my experience, and at the very least contain a lot of things that other games could borrow from.


Edit: also while the Realm could be a better place, it's still better than 99% of Creation. It's just that most of that comes from the pockets of Threshold states. The Immaculate Order, in spite of propping up an authoritarian empire, also does a lot of humanitarian things and helps keep the gods in line and doing their jobs. I don't know if it was cut from the leak like a fair bit of setting fluff, but it was mentioned that about a fifth of the Immaculate Order is focused around humanitarian service to the Blessed Isle's peasants.

Also the entire premise of their religion is a lie, the majority of Dynasts fail to adhere to the standards the Order espouses, and they most likely want to kill your characters because you specifically are the manifestation of all their belief system considers evil. So, lots and lots of moral ambiguity for everyone.

Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 25, 2016

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

People in any industry can be motivated by greed, they can also just be really bad at picking avenues to reliably satisfy their motivations.

Didn't the guy in charge of Catalyst Game Labs embezzle a whole bunch of money?

It owns, he's basically playing Shadowrun IRL!

Alien Rope Burn posted:

You'd think it'd be ridiculous, but people manage. Crisis of Treachery and whatnot. Anything Ken Whitman's been involved in. Or certain unnamed kickstarters.

What is the story behind Catalyst guy and was it really Gau or Red Mage who stole all the money from the Turbodracula thing???

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Beast's fiction anthology comes out soon, everyone get hype :toot:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

Begone from my sight, Satan. I name thee Temptation.

Who would not be tempted by Beast the Primordial?

Zereth posted:

In Beast's case, I suspect it's because they spilled a lot of revenge fantasy in by accident and the thing curdled and they're refusing to recognize that they have in fact made something entirely opposed to their point.

If you're writing a game where heroic unprivileged Beasts fight against cis-white-male Hunters, of course you're going to write it so that the former can do no wrong while the latter are composed of twisted sociopaths. Because that is about where the level of discourse is IRL too.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

Except that's not the way it is. That's the way Matt wanted it to be, but that's not the way the rules of CofD work.

Chiefly, Integrity is not a good/evil scale the way that Humanity was. It's a measure of how well 'put together' your self image is. You get breaking points when you murder and are exposed to the supernatural because those are usually things outside of your self image, but you can instead incorporate those things into yourself and build your integrity back up. But the kind of people at level 1-3 integrity aren't "evil", they're extremely broken. They are barely in control of their own lives, if at all, because they don't know who they are anymore. And then a beast comes along and turns them into a Hero, and they're told who they are. And of course they don't question it, of course they don't look back, because now they have a purpose and it is 100% crystal clear. Anything and Everything are permissible in pursuit of that goal.

But you know who does have a choice? Beasts. Each and every one of them chose to be what they are, each and every one of them chooses how to feed. But that doesn't really matter because in the long run, eventually every Beast will make a hero. Every Beast will rip away someone's life and replace it with something that hates them because they chose to be a monster.

So when all of the imagery of trans culture and acceptance are applied to Beasts and not Heroes? That's horrific. And you know who chose to do that? Matt.

Yeah, it really ruins the metaphor when Beasts get a say and Heroes don't, and using mentally damaged people as stand ins for whatever cyber-troll is insulting for everyone. It fails to maintain the idea that Beasts are correct and Heroes are bad.

I think, also, that even attempting to have an unambiguous good and an unambiguous evil is something that doesn't work well in WoD.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kavak posted:

Absolutely. I would just be treating this as a book of vile motherfuckers for a Werewolf pack to tear apart or Valkyrie to fill full of lead if it weren't for the tone and writing designating the good guys and bad guys in such a wrongheaded way.


Yeah, I'm starting to feel less like Matt McFarland wrote something very personal that he can't see the flaws in and more like he might have some serious problems.

Yeah. And I mean, you totally can have something that only provides evil and suffering in WoD, True Fae have basically no redeeming characteristics in nChangeling. But Changelings aren't an unambiguous good: they all have the potential to turn into True Fae themselves, there are Changelings who sell out other Changelings, and they can and maybe even do gently caress up other people's lives in an effort to not go back to Arcadia. Because Fae are monsters and Changelings are people for better or worse.

Neither Beasts nor Heroes get written like they're people in this book. They're both extended metaphors for something else.

Speaking of which is the part where Beasts are buddy-buddy with the Fae intact? :stare:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


NutritiousSnack posted:

The thing is though, in this description, Fae are forces of nature or trauma personified. Not "people" that had childhood or are supposed to have jobs that last from "9 to 5 but the drat boss keeps them until 7 with no overtime pay". They exist to create scenarios that cause Changeling's to make their own messes and deal with the consequences of. "Heroes" are human beings, with accidentally completely justifiable motives "reacting" to the needles cruelty the player characters do, and don't pose much of a threat.

From what I understand, the only shot they have at harming a Beast is inflicting a weakness on the Beast, which only occurs if the Beast ever manages to gently caress up in a way a PC never would?

Heroes are basically Bulk & Skull.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Hostile V posted:

Perhaps if one were to imagine Beast: The Primordial the game as one of the actual Beasts it presents, it feeds by making people incredibly uncomfortable with the stuff it says and the lesson ultimately is "rawr you can't change me, you should use that creative energy I bestowed upon you to make your own thing free of my influence also rawr again".

I forgive Beast because now I know that if anything kills OPP it won't be Exalted :3:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kai Tave posted:

Well let's be fair here, it could always be both.

No, no, it survived Beast fine too.

Whatever kills it will be worse!

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


I hold out hope that they won't make the Klan Heroes.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Mors Rattus posted:

It is both unproductive and kind of weird to write fanfic about how bad the Beast setting will be. Just wait for it to be bad itself, no need to go all 'oooo, what if it's THIS bad' over and over.

but that just doesn't happen

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Crasical posted:

As HELLA RAD as the giant quartet of statues holding up a city with other cliff-dwelling cities hanging off the statues is, My inner 12 year old needs to point out the statue on the right is the proud site of 'Butt Town'.

That's where I'm gonna put the slums in my game.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Flavivirus posted:

It's a good place for them! In my current game the slums proper are in a network of lashed-together ships around the feet of the statues - Butt Town is instead the city's den of vice, demonology and revolutionaries.

Butt town is where all the guys dressed up like banchos, with mohawks and pompadours, hang out.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Ratoslov posted:

Zeniths and Nights can be really dangerous combat types if they pick Resistance or Dodge (respectively) for their Supernal traits. I will also point out that Zeniths get access to War as a Supernal trait, which while not strictly speaking being a combat trait is utterly devastating when you can apply it in combat.

Command Rolls alone give your troops huge bonuses, so you can be a lazy-lord. Survival is great too, but mostly I'm grateful that even Presence or Lore have some combat utility.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

I know it's not the canon reason, but I like to imagine that the Athar formed when someone sat down to write a book explaining the Faerun deities and thought ":stare: You know what? gently caress this poo poo"

IIRC the founder of the Athar was a cleric from the Dragonlance setting, and that makes an incredible amount of sense.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Robindaybird posted:

Given the Dragonlance gods seem pretty incompetent - also kind of hard to take gods seriously when one gets blown to smithereens by the de facto guardian of Sigil

Dragonlance gods are very competent at maintaining a base of worshippers. Not much reason to obey the good gods without the evil ones constantly looming over you, and obviously the whole balance between good and evil thing is just a way to keep their pyramid scheme running.

This has always been my theory about Dragonlance.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Simian_Prime posted:

He works better as one of the Strix from Requiem.

The owls are not what they seem

Tricky Dick Nixon posted:

They don't really really change hosts as often, otherwise this is actually legitimately a cool direction to go with a splat like that. Garbanzola is pretty accurate as well to the whole feeding aspect.

It's garmonbozia, please respect Twin Peaks lore.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kavak posted:

It's nice to be reminded of why I got into White Wolf in the first place after reading about Beast. :unsmith:

Now people will get into White Wolf because they read Beast! :haw:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Nancy_Noxious posted:

The fact that Beast's success makes this Pathfinder-loving thread mad makes me glad. Not that I like Beast, I find it worse than bad, I find it uninteresting (like Geist, or Awakening Mage), but the way you people react to it (and the way you put down games I like such as 13th Age) is making me warm up to it. Ripping MRAs to shreds is just icing to the cake.

:agreed:

:yeah:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

one of the many many things I don't like about beast is that if you approach the setting from anything resembling a normal morality, the mra analogues are absolutely correct and heroic and the good guys. meanwhile the persecuted minority groups are evil monsters who deserve everything that's coming to them.

While Beast has some writing issues and muddles its intended message badly, its core theme of heaping abuse upon the more privileged by the less is one that I think resonates deeply with us all.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Doresh posted:

Except Beasts abuse privileged and ordinary people alike.

To understand Beast, one must first understand that all the filthy normies still stand higher on the privilege totem pole.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Terrible Opinions posted:

Except the theme is literally about people privileged by birth (in the form of magic powers) heaping abuse on those who have less privilege (also in teh form of magic powers) also by birth. You see Heros are inherently evil because of the Curse of Ham, whereas the Beasts are inherently good because they are the chosen of the Lord.

Again, I believe Beast is more a victim of bad writing rather than an overall bad message. Heroes are stand-ins for regressives who are pathologically incapable of acknowledging the Beast/minority's existence, possessing diseased values. It is not required for the Beast to gain a Hero's acceptance or tolerance, or even the acceptance and tolerance of the normie sheep who blindly follow Heroes, as such things are fundamentally unobtainable. Instead, Beasts must strive to undermine Heroes by any means necessary, while avoiding the possibility of turning more normies into Heroes, a good expression of there being "no bad tactics, just bad targets."

Beasts are a perfect metaphor for current-day identity politics, and while some may find this aspect of them 'extreme' or 'psychotic' it clearly has resonated with a lot of people.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

This is no longer true. Heroes are born as heroes. This alone completely undermines the message and removes the one bit of Beast that had any single level of nuance.

Damnation.

I thought I had something going for a while there.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Terrible Opinions posted:

I take it that you really liked Bellum Maga

It was almost everything I could ask for in a game I would never play.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

You realize you're saying that no matter how depraved the actual subject matter of the game, that it's okay as long as the villain faction is composed of people you dislike personally?

yup :ssh:

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

I take it your a fan of Adam Sandler, then? :v:

About as much as I am with Beast and the like!

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Maxwell Lord posted:

I find I'm liking 13th Age more and more for story heavy high fantasy- it's simple enough while still working and not having the kind of "we gave this monster a Save or Die because tradition" red flags that made it into 5e. 4e I definitely favor for dungeon crawling and action heavy stuff.

I genuinely think that 13th Age is a much better 'intro' to the hobby than D&D.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Halloween Jack posted:

Like I said before, Beasts are like a DIE CIS SCUM parody of what Gamergaters think the robocops are really like, but played totally straight.

The fact that so many people are willing to buy into Beast as written does show that what is supposedly a demented parody still has some traction with people.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

Does this make me Frodo or Gandalf?

Depends on whether Beast leaves you maimed and poisoned for the rest of your life or causes you to rise again as Kurieg the White.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Nessus posted:

How apt, since Beast is like the oxygen destroyer of threads!

I am become Beast, destroyer of game lines.

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Hostile V posted:

According to my Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within/FF7/Promethean crossover game/93 chapter fanfiction, the Lifestream.

How loving dare you steal my brilliant ideas

Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


SirPhoebos posted:

Exalted 3e seems really cool, but does it fix the Perfect Defense issue that blighted 2nd Edition?

Yeah. Either the perfects are more restricted, or come with a heavier cost. The perfect dodge is only usable once per scene normally unless it's reset by successfully dodging 3 attacks without relying on a perfect effect. The perfect parry requires that you spend initiative in proportion to successes on an opponent's roll. Neither charm can be used when you run out of initiative.

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Bedlamdan
Apr 25, 2008


Kurieg posted:

Hey guys, I didn't forget Beast, I'll try to hammer out some stuff tomorrow. Just been a little distracted with a combination of work being just busy enough that I can't work on write-ups during downtime, but still so mind numbing that the last thing I want to do when I get home is type.

Hurry there are still the Beast Supplements and novellas to cover after this :mrgw:

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