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Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Wasn't there someone who mentioned that the oWoD Hunter books deliberately had a tonal disconnect between the actual content of the game and the art? Like, all the art tended to be of gung-ho, badass Rambo types straight merking fools, mowing down werewolves and vampires alike even though in lore, and in the actual rules that would never happen. Hunters would kick in the door on a group of werewolves and promptly get shredded in seconds before they could make a move. I don't know how it's treated in lore but isn't it a similar situation with vampires compared to basically every other supernatural in the universe? Like, all but the most powerful vampires would get utterly wrecked by basically anything other than a normie, mortal human?

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Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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It's hard not to love a setting where one of the best things you can do to handle a giant walking tank with a nigh infinite supply of missiles is send a dude with a sword after it. gently caress, I want to imagine military strategists sitting around a table and saying "hmm. Well let's go send a guy to swordfight that 5 story robot."

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Yeah I was kinda blown away by "hey don't play a hanged man!" They sounded like the most interesting concept. Makes them way more sympathetic too rather than the alien bodysnatchers that all the other nephilim seem like. Especially because their whole path to ascension seems to revolve around becoming more and more human.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Holy poo poo I was on my phone for that gif and it didn't animate right away. I knew what it was before it even started it's so egregious.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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I do enjoy the 2E picture of a dude busting a door down by flexing at it but i remind everyone that one of his hands is fuckin backwards.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Obligatum VII posted:

Look, just because he had a Rakshasa (I probably misspelled that) somewhere in his family tree is no reason to discriminate.

Is that how that works? If you're half Rakshasa half your hands are backwards?

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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No one uses One With Nothing for Madness or getting cards in the graveyard. It's better to play them or use them for something useful, hence why Wild Mongrel was so good for so long, because it had a repeatable discard effect so you could get those cards in your grave while feeding a cheap creature. One With Nothing was basically good specifically as sideboard tech against Owling Mine because if you resolved it more than once, you basically just won because there wasn't a drat thing that deck could do to you if you didn't have cards.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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I've always enjoyed the fascist element to 40k but only because I kind of enjoyed the idea that humans are among the villains in that universe. That was before finding out that not everyone takes it that way. I took it as "oh cool how GRIMDARK that humans are the real monsters" but other people were taking it as "these jackbooted aryan supermen are so cool".

edit: Also why during my brief stint of spending money on the tabletop game I bought into Tyranids because they were the most sympathetic non-Tau faction. They're just hungry.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Kurieg posted:

Considering that you apparently need to be trained to spot, I'm not entirely convinced Eldoru-ans make spot checks with their eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhEs9KUQ4qo

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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I love that pull ups are literally impossible in that system.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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I have no idea if this is supported in the text of 40k lore but I vaguely recall being told once that the whole "barely animate corpse of the emperor" thing was actually counter productive to helping the imperium because if they'd just let him die his soul could escape and do something instead of just being trapped in a rotting shell.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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megane posted:

I feel like 95% of the bad aspects of DnD derive from people squawking BUT I WANT MY X JUST LIKE LAST EDITION. Wizards have to learn Fly, even though it instantly and totally invalidates like 30% of the game and what other players can do, because they had Fly before and people will go into conniptions if they "lose" it. I wanna play a Summoner! Let me play a Summoner! And it'd better be just as obnoxious and tedious and impossible to balance as before, or there'll be hell to pay. People even whined that the 4e Fighter was unacceptable because they wanted a boring, weak class for whatever reason.

That's why I have literally zero hope that DnD will ever be good in future*; if they cut out anything stupid you can bet your rear end it'll show back up in the next splatbook. 6e will waffle and waver and make some grand gestures and then give all the fun things to Wizards like they always have.

* Just to clarify, I don't think it was good in the past either. It was simple, and had deep, systematic flaws, then they made it huge and complex and kept every flaw like it was a treasured gem.

Alternatively, Fly is really cool and good. I really don't want to lose Fly because I think it's just such a cool thing and is so intrinsically a thing I wanna be able to do if I can use magic. While I understand the reasons for it my biggest disappointment in post-Morrowind ES games is that you can't fly around. Same thing with teleporting.

The real problem is that casters shouldn't be able to just invalidate what someone else does. Knock? Why does that spell exist and at such a low level? Why do Wizards have a "Lol gently caress rogues" button? (They actually have a lot of those)

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Agreed on the first, disagree on the second. If your entire class is defined by the ability to pick a lock, maybe your class doesn't have enough meat? The rogue and the wizard get a lot of weird overlap where the rogue can steal all the wizard's tricks by paying money and the wizard gives up combat power to do poo poo you don't care about most of the time. The real problem is that the wizard plays "I win" cards and the rogue has a chance to fail, but if a 5th level rogue's lockpicking ability was knock at-will no one would care. People would be fine if wizards could burn spells to do things worse than what other classes get for free.

I dunno because that was just kind of an example of one thing a caster steals. Like, there's the classic example of how Druids in 3.x at least are just better than fighters. Like you could be a fighter, or you could be a bear which has like 20 strength, multiple attacks, AC and big HP all in one package. And then every druid is two bears. One of which who can (after feats) still cast spells. I mean, rogues do other things to, and I don't disagree that the class has traditionally been a mess as far as design goes, but they've still had a sort of niche of being sneaky-stabby dudes with lots of skills. The problem being of course that casters can just replicate most if not all skills with a spell, without rolling, stabbing in 3.x is worse than magic, and who cares if you can sneak if we have invisibility. I just think that the base caster classes should not just have a "I do your job but better" button for every non-caster class available.

That and yeah, I've always supported that line of thinking with magic in games. If a wizard can say "I just open this lock" then a rogue should be able to say "I just open this lock."

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Feinne posted:

Someone needs to remind these people that things which aren't mammals strictly speaking probably shouldn't have breasts.

Where's the fun in that?

(No really though it is weird to put bomb-rear end titties on zombies and poo poo all th etime)

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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I'm kind of amused there's a whole category of monster who are just a bunch of dudes yelling feeeeeemaaaaaaaaaleeeeeeeeesssss :biotruths:

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Mors Rattus posted:

It involved a lot more sex tho, if their myths are accurate

All I know is that if someone offers you a salad you should definitely politely decline.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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At a certain point there's a social contract on not being an rear end in a top hat at a tabletop game. If your players are so committed to not playing the game that they all conspire to make it such that they no longer have any drama or stakes in any conflict because they just shoot everything, then maybe find a different game. It's like, everyone COULD play pun-pun, or whatever nonsense thing from D&D, and being an unstoppable god that can do anything is clearly optimal but no one does that because what the gently caress dude? I mean you can make a point about guns being too good but I feel like "5 people all shoot the bad guy simultaneously" is a bad faith argument.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Ratoslov posted:

Starting with a salvo of gunfire before switching to swords in a pirate game is not frickin' Pun Pun.

No, but having the entire PC group of at least 5 people all simultaneously shoot the same target while being specifically optimized to shoot well so no one will miss, is definitely choosing to optimize in such a way that you don't have to play the game because the fear that everyone will just one-shot every major villain is what's being discussed.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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The only thing I strongly dislike about shadowrun is that it catfishes your on cyberlimbs. It's the kind of game that makes you think that if you want to be a badass you should get your arms lopped off and replaced by chrome ones that have blades and poo poo in them and super strength but it turns out thats a terrible way to build a cybered up character who fucks people up.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Wasn't there a physical adept equivalent to wired reflexes because it seems like a real mistake if there isn't.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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hyphz posted:


If there's an easy logical resolution like that then why the flying gently caress would the GM consider themselves 'in doubt'? I mean, that just seems like some kind of catastrophic misunderstanding of that phrase.

To be slightly fair to this book, there is a weird impulse for GMs sometimes that if you ever roll a 20 on a die, you do something stupendously over the top, and if you roll a 1, you poo poo your pants and fall in it because you're a lovely poopy pants. Not rolling dice all the time for no reason is a thing people should be reminded of.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

its very important to have your gm pc dominate

What if it's that kinda game though? Don't kinkshame.

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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It definitely seems odd to me that power tripping would be so discouraged when "to be strong and cool and hot and immortal" would be like the #1 reason anyone would be a vampire

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Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

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Dawgstar posted:

We can blame Anne Rice, I suppose. Also Lost Boys to an extent, which had the vampires like being strong and cool, etc. but they were also the bad guys. Cool stylish undead person went hand in hand with 'also deeply tortured' for along time.

I mean it's not even so much that they're deeply tortured. I can see having superpowers at a steep cost as being a thing to be sad about but I still think that every vampire would love to flex a little. Otherwise what's even the point? Just go sunbathing at that point.

Actually, real question, for how sad vampires are sometimes, how much does the lore touch on vampire suicide? I feel like immortality being a curse is less of a thing when you have an extremely accessible cause of death to turn to.

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