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Night10194 posted:How bad is it? I am not well informed about Chinese as a language or its naming conventions/structure. Pretty bad, but probably coming from complete ignorance rather than like, real racism or anything. Like, the game says that everyone is speaking Cantonese, but all the names are (garbled to hell) Mandarin. The only name that really looks Cantonese is "Kar Fai" ; "Kar" is actual, real Cantonese and "fai" isn't even a possible Mandarin syllable. To give context, this is like having an Italian setting and then all of the names are mangled French. The actual "Mandarin" names look like a mix of syllables taken from like, restaurant menus and poo poo with a heavy smattering of just mashing letters on a keyboard. In theory, for some of the names, I could try to come up with justifications but I'd need to give the authors a lot of benefit of the doubt that I'm not willing to. (So like, if it was just some of the names, you could say, "Okay, that's definitely weird and not really used as a name but if I assume this is an obscure name and they spelled it funny and I was drunk maybe..." ; except this is every name pretty much.) It really comes off as if they made your rural, racist drunk uncle make ching-chong noises and then half-assed transcribed them. I'd have to go back and re-read to double check cause I only really started noticing once I hulked out with the pedantry, but I'm pretty sure the only real names have been ones you've provided like Zhuge Liang*. *Whose name is actually also hella weird, but that's an actual thing and everyone knows it and he's a famous mythical(???) figure so no one's going to blink an eye at it.
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Jun 13, 2019 18:49
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It's probably that, yes. To be fair, I'm the whitest white dude to ever be white*, I just did this magical trick called learning. *I play the mandolin for gently caress's sake, which in addition to being white as hell, one of the Chinese names for it is literally "foreign/barbarian pipa/lute".
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Jun 13, 2019 18:59
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Thanks for the great write up, Night! I might try to get my group to play Feng Shui after I port it to FATE or something less broken. And Zhu Xi (like hell I'm gonna use that spelling) was basically The Dude Who Made Modern Confucianism. To be very, very flip and summarize 2,000 years of philosophy in a joke, he's the guy who turned Confucianism from "Rah rah do whatever The State, your dad, your older brother says (in that order!)" into a real like system of guidance. And last bit of pedantry in spoilers, I'm not picking nits and just going for the juicy stuff because even I'm aware I'm being annoying by now : He's a Shaolin (Buddhist?!?!?) master Confucianist who does Daoist magic? (Feng shui, like the actual practice, is Daoist as gently caress.) . That's like being an Evangelical Christian Rabbi head of ISIS. That's three philosophies/religions that had some major disagreements. Like, Buddhism, especially Zen/Chan Buddhism, is pretty big on not having worldly affairs and Confucianism is about how much you loving love your dad and also money and society. And Buddhists and Daoists historically hated each other so much it literally turned into a kung-fu movie trope! It's there in the media you're cribbing from, Feng Shui! Gah! This is a good game and I would like to play it a lot, but looking at it with even the tiniest amount of knowledge about China that I have, it's loving glaringly obvious no one did research.
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Jun 15, 2019 02:27
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Night10194 posted:To be fair to the author of Blood of the Valiant he had to work with the character who already existed, I think. I have no idea how good or bad the rest of his history is in the book because China is basically a giant glaring gap in my education/knowledge, but it was already a thing from the start/core book that the Guiding Hand were Neo-Confucian Shaolin Monks who had specifically driven any Buddhists out of the ranks of their specific secret society, and Feng Shui in FS is always presented as removed from any religious or spiritual context despite being Daoist, as you say. Leading this with I'm not going against the authors, and especially not you, Night, but I'm quoting this for just how insane it is. I get that you are accurately and informatively and humorously explaining a setting that you love (and you won me over on), but this is a perfect summary of how little research the writers did into the writing and why the 90's was terrible for this poo poo. (Neo-*)Confucians driving Buddhists out of a Buddhist monastery as a secret society is just insane. This is like saying The Vatican was secretly full of Shintoists. It's peak Enh Those Others Are All The Same and just moving them around like they weren't an actual culture. And not that that's bad! (The Vatican part, not the racism.) Secret Shinto Pope would be dope as hell! But it should be done knowing what that means so you can explore it and make it even cooler rather than just writing down some words you got from Encarta and calling it a day. Sorry I keep harping on this. It's a great write up and game but some of the content keeps randomly making me do that old sit-com thing where I pull at my collar. I'll drop it. But I did get you to say Daoist instead of Taoist so I take that as a small victory**. *While the two groups are different, it's not really relevant to the conversation. **I know it sounds puerile as hell that I care so much about Chinese transcription, but the old system causes brain worms that just confuses everything and makes my professional life hell.
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Jun 15, 2019 02:51
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Also the Torchbearer review hasn't died, I'm just dealing with some poo poo. In the next chapter, I get to give you actual full details on a whole system though! Finally not having to say I'll explain later. (Mostly.)
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Jun 15, 2019 04:01
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My eyes rolled back in my head in defense.
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Jun 15, 2019 04:25
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My (probably very charitable) hypothesis of what happened with Alas, Vegas : This was done by an experienced group of collaborative storytellers doing round-robin GMing and making the story up on the fly with lots of improvising, then they basically just transcribed what they came up with. This might be my own weird reading/errors or just getting information second hand, but I'm getting the impression it's not "designed" to be a railroad ; the author(s) never thought about most of the possible branching paths because they didn't come up during their game. It would also explain the garbage math of the system since if you only played it once, you might not notice how the probabilities are totally hosed long term. But I'm quite probably making this up. Just a random take from someone who hasn't even touched the actual book.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:05
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hyphz posted:Oh god, it's this, isn't it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEOZ1sBppWs Well that was horrifying. I even was there like 6 months ago. Oof.
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Jul 18, 2019 02:47
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I'll say what I'm assuming everyone is thinking : I read it as "Farttown" every single time. Because I am a child. Farttown!
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Jul 22, 2019 03:27
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The Skeep posted:Iirc the running theory behind greenskinned Frankenstein is they used green make up for the black and white films to add contrast and it just stuck when the switch to colour was made. Wait what? How does that work? How does adding color change the black and white image? (I'm colorblind so I might just not be able to understand this.)
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Jul 22, 2019 16:49
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I shouldn't have asked. This is making my head hurt. Colors are weird and I will never understand them.
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Jul 22, 2019 17:14
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O my god those recipes are such a trash fire. This is a whole new axis for me being mad at Monte Cook. I feel like the kid in The Indian in the Cupboard but instead of a magical world it's rage at really lovely cooking advice.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:08
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Root beer? Really?
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Jul 25, 2019 18:07
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theironjef posted:To make pulled pork? Sure! It's basically just a prepackaged sweet brine. You can use whatever soda, the recipe I pulled it from suggested Dr. Pepper. The finished product doesn't take like root beer, just tastes like sugar, acid and sodium were sucked way down into the meat and broke it down real good. When I make carnitas out of a pork shoulder I just squeeze a bunch of lemons, oranges, and limes into the slow cooker, does the same thing. I always did a garlic and vinegar brine, but hey, weirder poo poo has worked. Maybe I'll try that next time.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:13
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We are so profoundly off topic, but this carne asada recipe has been both a blessing and a curse. It's delicious and a big hit, but ever since I made it the first time it's become everyone's favorite and I have to make it constantly, like some kind of Sisyphean punishment. The recipe lies though and you should make tons of the marinade to reserve as a sauce, not just half. Just go crazy.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:03
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My old gaming group was 3/5th hardcore cooking nerds so whoever was hosting would just make elaborate 4 course feasts. "Ah yes, tonight we will be running Blades in the Dark. I have made fresh baozi with a pork and mushroom stuff, here are three dipping sauces, there's a cucumber salad in malayu. The hongshaorou should be done braising in a bit and then this is the twice cooked pork with leeks and broccoli. Beers are in the fridge." I miss the gently caress out of that group.
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Jul 25, 2019 20:38
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Apparently he doesn't even know how to make a grilled cheese though.
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Jul 26, 2019 03:05
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dwarf74 posted:dijon mustard. No the secret is getting the flip right and choosing a good melty cheese. Putting some good mustard on is like step one. That's not a secret. That's like saying the secret is dipping it in tomato soup ; everyone knows that. It's just what you do.
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Jul 26, 2019 04:20
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Relevant Tangent posted:Mustard?! A good creamy mayonnaise is the base for the perfect grilled cheese. Porque no los dos????? A little honey-dijon remoulade with lots of capers? I'd add a light arugala salad with balsamic vinegar to contrast, but that'd be getting all fancy. I'd love to add horseradish but that'd just over-power everything. (Sorry I'm doing so much food chat. If people want, in penance, I'll give recipes tomorrow. I like cooking. Sue me.)
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Jul 26, 2019 04:32
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No you sautee the bread in the butter before you even make the sandwich. God. Are you even trying. A good pat of butter, sautee on both sides, then add your favorite spread and a mix of American cheese for the melt and then just whatever you want. Gouda, cheddar, Cotswald is pretty good too. Figure it out. (You can make your own American cheese out of any other cheese but it's a bit of work). I did it with feta once and it worked way better than you'd think. Then you add more butter to the pan and plonk the sandwich down and microflip until it's like a crusty brown letter to god. God. Have none of you grilled a cheese. You're welcome.
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Jul 26, 2019 04:37
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I apparently have very strong feelings about grilled cheese sandwiches and should just go for a walk.
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Jul 26, 2019 04:38
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Before anyone says anything : it's home-made brioche or challa. Get out of here, other, lesser breads.
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Jul 26, 2019 04:45
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mike12345 posted:is there a type of bread that really shines when you bake it in a bbq grill? I just got a grill, and I can't stop grilling. Pita loving shines on the grill, but yeah also flatbreads in general. Make a fresh flatbread and then cover it in pesto and feta cheese.Maybe a bit of country ham and sun-dried tomato if you want to guild the lilly. You'll basically be received like a religious icon.
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Jul 26, 2019 06:16
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If you're gonna do it with a more traditonal Western bread, you either want something super light and just to kiss it for a second on the grill. Or you want something super hardy that can hold up to it like a pumpernickle or whatever. If you're trying to make bread on the grill itself, you need a bespoke recipe. Serious Eats has some decent ones that I've tried.
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Jul 26, 2019 06:20
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Charcoal bao with a couple skewers of some kind of spiced meat on a stick are a thing. Sorry, this just got turned into the cooking thread.
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Jul 26, 2019 06:31
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O my god please at least wait until we get all of the relevant rules so I can follow this debate. I know you posted some of them, but this is just meaningless white noise about whether [mechanics that are only partially known] backs up [setting that I don't really know except for hearsay]. I'm sure this is a great and insightful conversation if you can follow it, but maybe just hold off a bit until us randos can follow it too, please? (Not to you, specifically, LatwPIAT ; I mean everyone pretty much.)
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Jul 30, 2019 19:13
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PurpleXVI posted:Yeah, I get this. Part of the problem is that we're also talking about both 1E and 2E EP at the same time, which, uh, does not help much for clarity of conversation. I'm sure that's not helping, but I, as someone with a passing familiarity with 1E Eclipse Phase, am entirely god drat lost in this conversation. It's probably a great discussion for those who can understand it, and I certainly don't want to shut it down, but could we wait until the thread can follow along or spin this off into another thread instead of the same few posters having really complex arguments that no one else appreciates?
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Jul 30, 2019 20:50
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Ithle01 posted:Yeah, I'm not actually criticizing your complaints about EP because there sure are some problems in EP1 and 2. I'm talking about the general concept of FnF and that pen and paper rpgs are not generally well-oiled machines. I think at least some of us here think that, while this is broadly true currently, it's because the hobby as a whole is relatively new and many people in it are resistant to the idea of using better game design, or that such a thing is either possible or desirable. But it's certainly not universal. While I can't think of any perfect game systems, several at least are entirely functional right out of the box instead of the broken cobbled together messes that many games are. FATE has many problems, but they're all basically problems to do with its intent of being a simple, universal system with a decent amount of player narrative control ; there's a lot you can mock it for, but it's kind of like arguing that a mini-van isn't a sports car. Blades in the Dark isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it wants to let people run good steampunkish heists and it delivers on that intent without a lot of loving around. Just cause many games are bad doesn't mean we should give up on the idea of having good games.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:09
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O my sweet dear god please shut up about Eclipse Phase rules until we get there in the review.
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Jul 31, 2019 04:13
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Cool. Go to town.
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Jul 31, 2019 05:17
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Isn't that in Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell?
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Jul 31, 2019 05:56
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Jerik posted:Terrible things. Hi I'm an academic focusing on medieval Chinese things and this hurt my brain so much that first I grabbed whiskey and then I just stopped reading and did something I never do which is jump ahead to post. This is a loving garbage fire. I appreciate that you definitely tried your best with the Chinese, I know that's hard, (PS if you want the other characters, PM me), but loving ow. Ow. Ow. I'm lily god drat white and just this much flagrant disregard for Chinese culture hurt me. Ow. I already had a drink so I'm not gonna make an effort-post now, but I'll try to do one tomorrow cause jesus loving christ that is dire and for once I have something to contribute. (Not knocking your efforts, I just literally am getting a degree in this.) Also loving bullshit Wade-Giles was not standard then. Pinyin came out in the 50's and only idiots kept using it cause it's loving garbage. That point you're just straight up wrong about. Every even half-decent Sinologist adopted pinyin by the early 60's cause it's just way better. Also stop capitalizing it, it just means "spelling". Good write up of a bad book but I'm too angry to give constructive stuff. I'll try to do Xiahou Dun Knows Way Too Much About Old Chinese Things Theater tomorrow when I'm less angry and more sober. gently caress how do you gently caress up Guandi that bad! And somehow forget he's the "god" of tofu. And that translating gods from Chinese culture is bullshit at the beginning. gently caress! I need to take a walk.
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Aug 13, 2019 03:19
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Nessus posted:I imagine there was probably also a political cast; wasn't pinyin developed or otherwise associated with the CCP? It was kind of sort of started by the ROC but they abandoned it during the war and then the PRC picked it up. They kind of half assed came into the room and read their notes after they'd left, so to speak. Then also kind of dropped it cause it was too not-commie. But yeah the ROC/Taiwan doesn't use pinyin (or even Wade Giles) which can be super annoying. In my experience they use something vaguely inspired by the Yale system but I think they might have been drunk. It's really more Bepemefe/Zhuyinfuhao half-assed applied to Roman letters. With no tone marks. Taiwan is a mess. Also he's called GuandDI instead of Guanyu because he's a god and "di" means "god". Or well, close enough. That whole update just made me really angry. Not at the summarization, but at the content. It's so loving wrong it hurts. I'm on my second bourbon just thinking about it. Uggggghhhhhhhhh. I'm going to post an angry rebuttal but I'm tired and no-one wants me to ramble. Also, using 簡體字. Come on. 最近在做什麼?
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Aug 13, 2019 04:19
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Jerik posted:I'd definitely be interested in your comments on the chapter. I mean, don't feel obligated if you don't feel up for it, but if you do want to post about the matter I'd certainly be interested in reading it. I did try to do my own research about the gods in the chapter (which is largely why this post took so long and why so much time passed between the post on the Central American Mythos chapter and this one), but like I said in the post I'm absolutely not in any way an expert on Chinese culture and mythology, and I'd like to hear from someone who is. I'm sure there are plenty of things I've missed or gotten wrong. Again, emphasizing that I'm not yelling at you. I'm yelling at the book that you are doing a very good job of summarizing. It's just mixing like 4 religions together and jesus christ the "Chinese" (yeah it gets scare quotes) is just painful. Reading it is like getting hit with a taser. I'd almost prefer racist ching-chong noises. Anyway, I wrote another 8 pages of my dissertation so I'm going to crack a beer and re-read the post while keeping a google doc open for comments, then I'll post that. This will be my "reward" for a productive morning and early afternoon. We'll be rolling the dice on how pedantic I'm feeling. (Pretty loving pedantic.) quote:...Like that, for instance. Oops. Okay, yeah, my bad; I knew Wade-Giles was an older romanization system no longer in use, but I didn't know exactly how old, and I guess I just assumed that it was still standard when Deities & Demigods was written. I should have checked instead of assuming. I'll edit the post to correct that bit. Well at least they already did Guan Yin so they can't gently caress her up more. And Wade-Giles is literally from the early 19th century and just the most piping hot bullshit. While it somehow still survives for randos who don't speak Chinese (like on bad Chinese restaurant menus actually run by Thai people), everyone who actually does anything with Chinese got on the pinyin train within a decade of it existing cause it really is just better in every way (except for Taiwan/the ROC that still uses zhuyinfuhao). It's actually a pretty decent test that if something was written after like the mid 60's talking about anything Chinese and is still using Wade-Giles you can just ignore it, it clearly is coming from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. The only exception I can think of is The Tao of Pooh which is actually a decent summary of Daoism and opens with an explanation of why they used the Wade-Giles in the title for marketing reasons.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:06
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Okay this is going to be a stream of consciousness thing as I go through the actual post. I’m too lazy to make it interstitial, so it’s probably easier to read this if you have them both open in different tabs and can hop back and forth. Sorry, mobile users. I’m also going to swear even more than I usually do (a lot), because O MY GOD THIS IS SUCH loving HORSESHIT. First, this font. This loving font. Yeah I get they were trying to look like brush strokes, but they apparently don’t know how brushes work, or understand anything about how Chinese is written. That initial “c” is clearly from a Gothic batard hand and the inexplicable double lines on the “t” break all the rules on how to write a horizontal stroke. My calligraphy teacher would be summoned like some kind of vengeful spirit if she saw it. It’s like replacing Arabic with a toddler’s scribbling. It’s just garbage. Starting right in, the book doesn’t seem to understand that Confucianism, Buddhism, Daoism and ancestral worship/nature uh worship for lack of a better word are in fact distinct religious traditions. They’re not distinct in that one person can do all of them, unlike say being Christian or Jewish, but they would know they’re combining them. So as just a general thing, a lot of this comes off like if you called Joseph Smith a Catholic Saint ; you, uh, know those are like different things, right? Right? The Celestial Bureaucracy is real and modeled after Confucianism and was totally a thing and this isn’t an insane portrayal. A racist clock is right twice a day, I guess. WHAT THE gently caress THAT’S NOT HOW THE AFTERLIFE WORKS IT WAS A MAJORITY BUDDHIST COUNTRY THEY BELIEVE IN REINCARNATION. Do you mean the loving Bardo? Ughh. That’s not at all how yin and yang work. No they aren’t bad and good. It’s about the nature of opposites and they even thought through it enough that each one contains its opposite. It’s even right there if you look at a taiji! (Actual name for that symbol ; it means “ultimate end”.) The Yi Jing is literally “the change classic” so CANON OF CHANGES is I guess fair? But it’s not a loving Book of Shadows. Half of the other items I could probably associate with an actual thing in Chinese myth, but they’re so generic that I wouldn’t be certain. Like the Iron Wand could be The Monkey King’s staff, but I might also be trying to make this make sense and making patterns out of madness. I have low faith at this point and we’re only just beginning. That’s… Not a Chinese sword. What the gently caress. How do you gently caress up this badly. Shang di, literally, “high god” is uh complicated because it was kind of used as a general term and then it got conflated with Christianity and it’s not 100% certain it ever referred to a single, discrete entity historically. But if it did it’s an ephemeral being basically beyond human comprehension. Also for the record the “shang” in Shang Di and Shang Dynasty are totally different. They only look the same because I’ve already typed Chinese all day and I’m too lazy for tone marks. You’re lucky I’m wearing pants. gently caress I’m already on page 2 of this google doc. You do a great job on talking about Zhao Gongming and whatever the hell they did with Hou Yi. I have nothing to contribute except a good hearty ??????????????????????????????? Actually you did a really good job on most of the “gods” (still hate that phrasing) so I’m gonna start hopping around. If I don’t bring it up, you already tore it to pieces appropriately. Good job, A+, Jerik. That sounds sarcastic but it’s not. “Kuel” might be allowed in Cantonese? I don’t know. My Canto is garbo. It still doesn’t make sense why they’d switch languages for no reason and I don’t know why I’m being nice to the dumb racists and giving them a counter-argument. Feilian and Fengbo have “to fly” and “wind” in their names and it’s a reference. It’s more like saying “The West Wind” in a Chinese language context. GUANDI. O you did not just gently caress with my homeboy. He looks loving nothing like that picture. His beard is one of his signatures, as is the weapon that was named after him, the guandoa, which ain’t a loving halberd. And he’s the “god” of war, retribution and tofu (he was a tofu merchant). He also owns every single one of the bones. Despite this being the area where I’m most angry and passionate, I’m actually backing off quickly cause I will get too angry and just rant. Guandi is my loving bro for life (seriously still debating a big rear end tattoo of him), I went out of my way to go to all his temples, and this is like if you gave a description of Zeus but you just talked about Spiderman. It’s just totally wrong. Gets to Ma Yuan and just needs to loving lie down. gently caress! If this wasn’t too annoying I’ll try to come back and do more, but this is exhausting and bad for my blood pressure.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:48
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Jerik posted:O GOD MAKE IT STOP I think I popped a blood vessel in my eye. You're doing good work but jesus loving christ this book. I only got like halfway through the first post. Just loving GAH. I think I have a shock of white hair now. It's just. So. Wrong. Everywhere. I'll try to post more of a response but it's just so exhausting. And it's missing so much cool poo poo that would actually work! Where are the jiangshi? How are there not stats for magic coin swords???? I'm frustrated and baffled.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:27
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Mors Rattus posted:That's from Dark Ages. I'm actively sorting old boxes of poo poo and saw that one. Don't make me post it.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:28
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It was easier to google than get a phone pic :
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Aug 19, 2019 16:35
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Yeah I remember when I first encountered the term I suddenly remembered that picture and was like, "Wait, really? That's what you're referencing?"
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Aug 19, 2019 17:52
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SirPhoebos posted:Except then you have to make the vampires and every other monster more powerful (both magically and politically) in order to explain how they keep up the facade, to the point where it becomes pointless for there to be a facade to begin with. Or alternatively make them weak enough that they really have to hide and don't have much of a society. Or if you're mad with power you could pull a Charles Stross and double down on vampires really, really, really wanting to stay hidden. gently caress I just remembered he actually used to write for TSR and now I want to see his take on Vampire the Requiem. That sure would be uh a thing.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:33
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