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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Count Chocula posted:

Speaking of Vampire, I'd be interested in the supplement that nVampire put out right after Katrina to update the setting.

The supplement actually came out right before Katrina, leaving it in a very awkward position.

The age and size of the event is always going to play a factor. I wouldn't have any problem with someone adding a supernatural motive to, say, Hinterkaifeck because it's basically out of living memory, but there's a WtF lodge in one book that developed out of the aftermath of the Rwandan genocide. Like, even if there was absolutely nothing supernatural ascribed to it, just Uratha trying to deal with the wounds left behind and their own guilt for not doing anything to stop the Hutu death squads, I think that's still too soon.

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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Mors Rattus posted:

Oh, and that one dude who was pressed to death.

Giles Corey, my ancestor. He refused to plead guilty or innocent knowing that a conviction would deprive his children of their inheritance, or to just gently caress with his accusers, accounts vary.

Kavak fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jan 8, 2016

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Ascension should've stayed dead with the rest of the old World of Darkness.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Brucato seems like the hippy version of kids who had a very strict, possibly outright abusive religious upbringing (Might explain why he keeps bringing up child abuse in his rants) who become atheists as teens or in college, but keep the mindset and many of the same prejudices of their old worldview. He talks a lot about anti-consumerism and other standard standard topics, but he dips into almost 19th-century level stereotypes when talking about the poor and non-First World countries. He also knows less than nothing about queer issues- Has he brought up cis-gay people at all?

Kavak fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jan 9, 2016

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




This is the same man who kept details on foci and paradigms out of an earlier edition out of fear that actual magic might be accidentally cast at the gaming table.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




theironjef posted:

That guy was Poul Anderson, I believe. In the 1953 story "Three Hearts and Three Lions."

It's also the source of everything about D&D paladins, trolls and some more stuff I've forgotten probably. Crazy how influential that thing is.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




LatwPIAT posted:

Someone mentioned that Brucato talks a big game about social justice, but frequently lapses into antiquated descriptions.

That was me, and it's just more confirmation that his ideology is just a skin over a lot of ingrained prejudices.

I think the "trailer trash" comment got overlooked because this book is garbage they've never been able to edit for poo poo the World of Darkness' ethos kind of lends towards that sort of stereotyping. As you said, it's really easy to end up with massively racist subtext or outright text when doing cosmic horror, and the same goes for the worst-of-all-possible-worlds vibe the old World of Darkness went for.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Doresh posted:

Thanks. Now it's starting to make sense.

I still don't get that chart

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Traveller posted:

On one hand, this could be interesting and fun. On the other hand, there's already a Vajra game in the archive.

Oh man, it's those guys again? This is going to be great

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Ugh, I had actually forgotten how bad the skill bloat got in oWoD. Just wait until we get to backgrounds...

Someone said the 20th Anniversary books were the distillation of each lines' essence. Mage's essence is that pig creature that got beamed up inside out in Galaxy Quest.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




LatwPIAT posted:

I've been under the impression that the World of Darkness games sold themselves on their simplicity and elegance, but this is detail and fidelity that competes with GURPS.

New World of Darkness, maybe. As bad as the merit bloat can get (And 2nd edition has helped with that by just giving out more dots), they kept skills under control with the specialization system.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

All the same, by the time they got to Mage there's zero excuse not to have some sort of coherent style guide for the line, or at very least for an editor to lean over and manage compatibility.

"Editor", is that some type of minor character template from a supplement they forgot to include?

Reading this, I'm starting to think that Beast was not some huge misstep and that Onyx Path is slipping back into White Wolf's lovely old ways.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Fossilized Rappy posted:

I'm not exactly sure why there's such a disconnect between the actual game text and the short fiction, but it's really jarring every time.

You ever read the Vampire the Requiem source book Damnation City? Same thing- fantastic city-building tools on the crunch side, B vs. D on the fluff.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




The nWoD has a flat TN 8 for a goddamn reason. I feel like it should be bumped down to 7, but that's just me.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




That Old Tree posted:

I went back to check and this is how they do all the 20th anniversary editions.

I remember when they decided to do that, the logic of the WW forum posters was pretty . At least they made the Translation Guides.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Hostile V posted:

I can't believe Mobius was killed by a psychic Japanese teenager, his grandpa, his grandpa's friend, a dog and the two other guys they picked up along the way. They were actually looking for someone else but figured "eh, can't hurt to do some more good".

"Mobius, you bastard, how many souls have you sacrificed to your Darkness Device?"
"How many breads you have eaten in your life?"

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Hostile V posted:

This looks like storyboard art from Oingo Boingo's Forbidden Zone.

Forbidden Zone made more sense. I understand the writing is problematic, but the art is hilarious.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




I've had fever dreams more consistent and logical than M20.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Nessus posted:

I forgot the acronym for the game under review and thought for a shining moment about having to confront Dracula on the b-ball court.

Kohta Hirano's doing the Space Jam sequel?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Was this something preserved or changed from the French version?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




WINNERSH TRIANGLE posted:

someone's goin' hog wild over the word of Liberalism here

"last major repressive autocrat in Europe" The emperors of the Central Powers and their generals, known proponents of full democratic governments. Also did Janus cause the bread riots and other horrific conditions that led to the fall of the Tsarist regime?

The problem with this aspect of "Secret Masters" settings is, like history itself, you can trace the events or movements that the vampires or angels or Illuminati are taking credit for back and back and back to the point that for them to be responsible for it in any meaningful way, they have to be responsible for everything, and human history becomes a giant joke.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Count Chocula posted:

What was that article that talked about how D&D has the assumption that even the ultimate good guy Lawful Good clerics will charge people for healing miracles, which reflects some...American assumptions about the world.

A medieval fantasy setting does not seem like the kind of place that would have a socialized health care system.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




I prefer "The south survives by the skin of its teeth, but collapses back into the Union over time" or "The North and West end up better developed and more powerful over the long term without the millstone of the agrarian south to support".

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Young Freud posted:

]Actually, this would probably work better with the French, since they were in a position to actually do something since they had a puppet state with Maximilian I in Mexico.

Britain had little reason to enter the war, since they both had ample reserves of cotton (something the South misjudged) and were developing their own cotton sources in Egypt and later India.

This dovetails nicely with my fetish for pre-war Germany, who would make a natural ally in that war.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Cythereal posted:

To the contrary, in the Forgotten Realms gunpowder was a direct gift from the god of invention to his faithful and his clerics could wield an arquebus contrary to normal cleric weapon restrictions. It was a very recent thing, though, restricted to Gond's priesthood and the distant island nation of Lantan. Then 4E happened.

Gond was an exception to the rule in the Forgotten Realms- did in spread in 4th edition or did they destroy that along with the rest of the setting?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Terrible Opinions posted:

The wall is also by itself why I'd argue no god save Kelemvor can actually qualify as good aligned in Faerun. He was the only guy who looked at the status quo and went "holy gently caress that's evil" and actually tried to do something about it.

Were any of the others in a real position portfolio-wise to do anything about it?

It's still a real pity that Obsidian and WOTC miscommunicated and you don't get to destroy that thing yourself in Mask of the Betrayer.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Bieeardo posted:

The same gods who, kicked out of heaven for stealing AO's tablets of the not-ten-commandments, hosed up the world so vigorously that an entire character class was eradicated and AO put his foot down, declaring that henceforth, divine power was predicated on strength of worship. Prior to that, the fuckers left countless shades sitting around in the Grey Wastes waiting fruitlessly for their gods to come and shovel them off to their rewards.

Except for Helm, the one god Ao judged to be worthy of staying a god and smacking down all the assholes who tried to weasel their way back instead of having to prove it.

So of course they killed him off before the Spellplague in a situation everyone involved knew was stupid but went through with anyway. I'm going to Ctrl-Y Cyric when you meet him in Throne of Bhaal.

wiegieman posted:

You become the embodiment of eternal hunger and consume several gods until you get bored and leave for greener pastures. It's pretty metal.

You turn into the fantasy version of Darth Nihlus, it loving rules.

EDIT: ^^^ I have solemnly sworn to never make a D&D setting with more gods than I can count on my fingers.

Kavak fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Feb 7, 2016

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




^^^ Right. It's the original "default" setting besides Greyhawk.

Kurieg posted:

Their hidebound refusal to actually advance the setting in any meaningful way is the other. 4e tried with all it's heart but 5e bent over backwards to return to the status quo, even bringing Mystra back from the dead in the dumbest loving way possible after killing her off so hard that Magic broke.

They reversed the status quo so hard Bhaal came back to life. How the gently caress did that even work?

Kurieg posted:

It's Mystra, Mystara is something completely different.

And because she's Ed Greenwood's personal wank fantasy, and that makes her important to all the nerds who demand that the Forgotten Realms stay eternal and pure.

Who he sleeps with his self-insert Elminster, who they ALSO resurrected.

Once Ed Greenwood dies, the first thing they should do is permanently kill that rear end in a top hat off or (My personal canon) have someone finally nail him to the wall for one of his countless sex crimes and lock him in Spellhold forever.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Alien Rope Burn posted:

Nah, that's Sigil.

Sigil was where the best RPG happened, not arcade game.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Kurieg posted:

The last two Bhaalspawn finally killed eachother. What's dumb is that Myrkul came back with no explanation whatsoever.

At least Mystra was a Bear.

That loving Bear.

Is that the canon explanation? Because imposing a canon ending on Baldur's Gate is the thing I hate most about the Forgotten Realms setting.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Robindaybird posted:

There's gods and some concepts I like from Forgotten Realms, and I admit I have a soft spot for the setting due to CRPGs - from the Gold Box games to Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, but there's a lot of groanworthy poo poo.

Same. What are the groaner spots besides Greenwood's pet NPC's again?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009





That adventure is even dumber than I thought it was.

Also Viekang surviving Throne of Bhaal means that the story is less like Highlander and I find that unacceptable.

quote:

NWN and NWN2 are really my only exposure to the Forgotten Realms and I love Mask of the Betrayer for calling out the writers on their poo poo.

That's what Obsidian does with any property licensed to them and I adore them for it.

I can recommend the Baldur's Gate series, although it needs mods even more than NWN does.

Night10194 posted:

Clerics are, uh, not tolerated in Sigil.

More like gods themselves- clerics are okay, except for Aoskar and the Lady of Pain.

Ao should take lessons from her- she fixes a problem in the balance of power in Sigil, it stays fixed.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Kurieg posted:

No I didn't misspeak. Somehow people from Earth-Egypt got transplanted into the Realms.
Yes it's incredibly racist.

I thought they just stole real gods like with Tyr, is it really done that racist? Do they actually talk about the Egyptian worshippers like their a different species, like the rest? Then again:

Bieeardo posted:

Speaking of racism, I need to dig up my copy of Day of Al'Akbar, just to confirm my vague memory of a mad bomber running around not-Agrabah, blowing up bazaars with delayed-blast fireballs.



Robindaybird posted:

Pretty much. I thought the Harpers were pretty silly as an organization, the way Lloth demands how drows need to act should've made the entire civilization collapse ages ago especially given everything else in the Underdark that would take advantage of that level of "gently caress you I got mine" and "Betray first!" that runs through the entire society.

I want to take some of the more fun gods (and admit a couple I like even if they're not exactly popular like Lathander), some concepts, and put them in a place that's less like someone's personal sandbox.

Drow are the worst, especially because they spawned Drizzt. Also, what the gently caress are the Harpers supposed to do anyway?

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Kurieg posted:

I'll give you three guesses what happened during the lead-in to Fifth Edition and none of them count.

I knew there was a reason the Forgotten Realms wiki was ignoring 5th Edition.

Yeah, I can understand that sort of stuff being written in the 1980's-1990's, even being a sadly overlooked part of the setting in the 2000's, but not bringing it back after nuking it out of existence.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Kurieg posted:

Uhhh, I have bad news.

Eh, I guess that's just the impression I got from there being so little stuff from 5th Edition in most articles. Maybe it's just selection bias?

Though it's hilarious that's how he decided to retcon things. Thankfully none of his god-NPCs age so the timeskip is meaningless to them!

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Kurieg posted:

There's so much poo poo in the forgotten realms that I'm sure not all of the articles got updated. Also all of this is contained entirely in the novels. Even the SCAG doesn't actually touch on what happened in between the Neverwinter Players Guide and 5e.

The wiki is still being updated rapidly. I think it's the novels, nobody sane reads those, even people who like Greenwood.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Nessus posted:

Your problem with exterminating all the wizards is that you're just asking for a necro-lord to come out of the wastelands with a skeleton army and institute a skullocracy. Then again perhaps that's for the best.

Skullocracy is rule by whoever has the most skull(s), right? Sounds like a good form of government for murderhobos.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Nah, I misread, I'm very tried. Tired. Something.

Planescape the sidescroller would be loving awesome, though.

Also the Mystara games are on sale on Steam right now: http://store.steampowered.com/app/229480/

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Terrible Opinions posted:

The weird this is that Ao didn't make the wall in the first place. Myrkul made it as a way to get power, and to high light why it's a bad idea for an evil dude to be in charge of the realm of the dead. When Jergal was god of the dead unclaimed shades just sort puttered around everywhere, and because Jergal is basically just cheerful old man he left them alone. So Ao observed someone else create the most evil of all possible things and think it was such a good idea he needed to preserve it.

Sounds more like someone forgot that setting detail or didn't know about it and it shifted over time.

quote:

Spellhold is from Eberron a much better setting.

There's two.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




I doubt there's much in the way of concept art for a side-scrolling arcade game, though I wish they'd picked art from 2nd Edition when the games came out.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Gnolls aren't supposed to be that tough either, so I don't think so. Probably just picked it because it looked tough.

Also I just remembered that the Drow, pre-transformation*, were called the "Dark Elves" and had brown skin and dark hair. So...yeah.

*Seriously, what kind of "good" god curses an entire people and all their offspring for their sins? At least when that happened in The Elder Scrolls to the Dunmer the setting doesn't portray Azura as pure good.

Kavak fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Feb 7, 2016

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Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Doresh posted:

Did they use to live underground before this curse? I'm certainly confused how elves could spend their entire lifes without ever seeing the sun without ending up looking like freaky, near-blind albinos. Then again, magic.

The wiki isn't really clear on when they turned into the Drow or how (Cursed? Worshipping evil gods? Interbreeding with demons?), but Corellon definitely ordered them underground. The Drow are his fault.

quote:

Maybe all the good gods used to be "good" in the same way as Old Testament God? Then again, that would actually imply that the setting (or rather the gods) can change.

I think the problem is just elves. Elves are second only to wizards in massive gently caress-ups, and they often overlap.

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