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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I think Jesus may well have something to say about Marc.

And yeah, comparative mythology even for ancient societies shows that for all the "oh its so similar" theorizing a lot of the underlying assumptions about mythology are completely at odds even after the romans start ramming every god into every other god to see what sticks.

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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Night10194 posted:

Ahahaha. Brucato thinks loving :tvtropes: is a 'great resource for storytellers'?

It could be for "recognize this" and then "Don't listen to anything it says"

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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See maybe I am the grognard, but through looking at a lot of this stuff, why on earth did people want/ fall so in love with OWoD? I mean I am only in my 20's so missed a lot of the 90's by being way too young, but when was this stuff good?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Libertad! posted:

As someone who got into the NWoD first, I always found this quite bizarre. I read a bit of Mage: the Ascension here and there, but found it hard to get into. Especially regards to the fact that the Technocracy sounded like the good guys because the consensus reality they shaped was on the whole good for the majority of non-mages, and that going back to the way things were would turn the world into a highly morphic hellscape without modern medicine, monstrous beasts roaming about, and all that jazz.

A secret society of supernatural dudes claiming origins from a higher world didn't seem that bad for me, especially when the werewolves have their own creation mythology of primordial nature spirits and wolf-gods.

I think its just "new thing bad" at this point, because there doesn't seem to be any reason to prefer Omage other than pure obstinacy at this point.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Is he the storm one? Because I'd just make him Orlanth.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Ratoslov posted:

Nah, Jordi is Animals, and he's basically a oWoD Werewolf that somehow became a Archangel. He fuckin' hates humans.

Ahhh right. Sorry!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Black August posted:

Y'know there's a reason that mass furious violent deicide is a thing in pretty much every setting I run.

Have you ever tried playing in Glorantha? Because there the gods are jerks because of a whole load of reasons. That and you might be the actual jerks.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Black August posted:

Nah. D&D ain't never been my bag. It'll forever be That Weird Other Game which I just safari past to gawk at.

It's not that strange, surely!

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Litheroys best feature is that he really gets on Kobols tits and annoys him. There is nothing more fun than that.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I always just assumed that the Vermin were basically skaven from warhammer back when I still read Redwall.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Night10194 posted:

Orlanth: The guy who is usually fixing something he broke but it's totally okay because it's going to turn out even better when it's done I swear (while his wife quietly makes sure he doesn't gently caress up more).

Orlanth has learned the secret that it is better to apologise and try and fix something that you broke than loving around going "nothing was ever broken in the first place.

Looking at you here Shelpkrit.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Spiderfist Island posted:

B) don't wait until we finish reading the book, and create Goonalda of the Lowtaxanoli Tribe? (No other input needed, since she's already a default human and that's all you can choose in RQ2E)[/b]

Not an empty quote.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Halloween Jack posted:

Wick despises the D&D convention of the murderhobo PC with no family, no friends, no holdings, no social position, and no purpose but killing and looting. So he deliberately writes games where that's prohibitive or impossible. Supposedly, he got the idea for Houses of the Blooded from going to conventions and playing a D&D Fighter named "Fighter." Supposedly he did this many times without his character's name, much less his background, ever mattering a drat. So he wrote a game where your character's name and family determine your stats.

A game about samurai is right up Wick's alley for obvious reasons. But a ronin in fantasy Japan is too much like a D&D PC...no holdings, no family, no master, probably reduced to being a footloose mercenary.

See why didn't he just do a game set in Glorantha? Players are tied to an actual clan and all that, but you get to create different stats and poo poo anyway. I mean you even get the advantage of setting up murderhobos if you desperately want to.

Thinking about it, are there any RPGs that start with a good reason why all the characters are together?

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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This sounds like it could get real catpiss real fast. It's like Narrative Causality, but much much worse.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Bieeardo posted:

Fridges. Fridges filled with women.

And fresh orphans.

This, and the fact that you can't die and yet you probably can still feel pain. I mean of course every system has the potential for cat piss, but I'd just be a bit worried about people going all "Look at all the cruelty I can inflict and the person still won't die!"

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Kai Tave posted:

I don't get any sort of "uh-oh catpiss imminent" vibe from Spellbound Kingdoms, like, at all.

I am still very new to how the systems of RPG's work, it is just something I could potentially see happening. I don't mean to downplay the coolness of a setting, but I just think that it could end poorly. That and a slight dislike I have for "The world sucks entirely" settings.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Kai Tave posted:

Unless Spellbound Kingdoms has a whole chapter on lovingly detailed rapetorture and how to inflict it for maximum cruelty points, it doesn't strike me as any more susceptible to this sort of thing than any given RPG not written by Chris Fields or Abby Soto. It's going to have a ways to go to even stand on the same pedestal as Cthulhutech with it's actual literal Nazi rape machine.

Very true, but prior to this I didn't even know those things existed and now I want to go have a good long cry.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Hunter quotes about beasts

"Burn them out. Burn them all, they are monstrous and smug about it".

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I have this wonderful image of a Vascu agent getting really sick of the Hannibal Lecter bullshit that a beast keeps trying to pull and just "accidentally" flooding the containment tank with bees and fire.

They probably wouldn't even write it up except to say "subject again proves unrecoverable due to extreme Smugness"

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Hostile V posted:

Alternately it has to try and prey on the more human of the Slashers and ha ha good luck.

Oh my goodness I want to see one of the brutes tear through one of these poseur motherfuckers like tissue paper.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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It's sad when the better game line in the nWoD is the fan made splat where you are pretending to be a cthulu esc monster who terrifies people.

Beast makes a fan made game look good, thats how bad it is.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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It really is something that this has basically seen people go "you know what was good, hunter was good. Lets get back together and set fire to beasts"

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Night10194 posted:

Do the bears get a bonus to murder local youths if they mocked your baldness?

Only if they have a pic-a-nic basket.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Asimo posted:

I recall a lot of whining about this game on RPGnet and the like back when it was new, but hell if I remember what actually set it off. Besides being one of the early modern-style heavily theme-focused storygames that made grognards absolutely livid.

I liked the setting ideas, but it did feel a bit weird that this cult was so invested in demons being 1) real and 2) Caused by things that from a modern moral viewpoint aren't all that bad. I think the problem is that the settings not far divorced enough from the real world to get rid of some of the bits that make me, as a modern person in a very secular nation, to suck my teeth and worry a bit.

It's different in something like King Of Dragon Pass where you are essentially bronze age tribes people beating the poo poo out of each other for cows, because their the morality is so removed from the modern world that it makes a kind of sense. In this case not so much.

It's still a great game though, I am just unable to run it because of how slightly odd I would feel thinking about stuff behind "you aren't obeying your father and mother enough" making literal demons put in an appearance.

Josef bugman
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Again I understand what DiTV is doing and think its really neat, just glad that I am not going to have to do it with any of my friends.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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I could imagine it if the setting was a bit more based in the past and/or the threat was both external and internal.

I am sorry about this but I can't help but think of men of all from Glorantha, you need to retain your immortality and in order to do that you are sent round each community to watch for things that may lead to mortality and death.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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It was actually made by the same bloke who did Apoc world, and he is apparently no fan of the Mormons. I believe it may actually be a commentary on playing misguided people trying to do their best and not being especially good about it.

Also, why are succubi so disliked in that review? Seduction seems like a fairly bog standard thing for demons to do and sex is kind of standard?

Josef bugman
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

Games like Exalted or even traditional D and D require you to adopt pretty alien moral viewpoints that I would argue are much more repugnant than DITV's patriarchal Mormon analogy, but DITV is just close enough to our real lived experiences to be uncomfortable. Its hard to hate someone like a traditional Gygaxian murderhobo since you've never met someone like that but it's all too easy to hate Jerry Falwell: the Game.

wiegieman posted:

Thinking about it some more, DiTV becomes less objectionable if you play it as a more "magic is real and your Dogs are superheroes" way. If your characters really can sweep bullets and bolts of fire launched by villainous sorcerers out of the air with their many-colored coats, then the strict laws of their society are more of a Glorantha style ritual to defend the community against outside forces. They still suck, but you can see why they're there, as opposed to a more realistic setting in which you're basically the white guy Sharia police.

These are both closer to how I always thought of "Dogs", the group makes it real through its rites, but it is not really real because otherwise why does the East still function? How do any people function at all, the Faith is clearly not winning, so why are you all so afraid?

Of course after that I get shunned/thrown out of the community for sinning.

In reality I always imagined it as the demons are implications rather than real, let me check the book first though:

Yeah it says that God will talk to you at certain points as a steward. The question on wether the thing you are speaking to is god or not is something that should be dealt with in group. The idea that the prophets may not actually be talking with God and actually just be committed frauds who want more brides should be something I'd love to bring up in game. And again it doesn't actually mention in my version that demons are even real. They are none corporeal in the example provided:

quote:

Brother Eleazer is having an affair with his neighbor’s
daughter, Sister Alise. a) The demons’ attacks are
specifically sexual: inspiring lust, souring marital
relations. b) The demons’ attacks have to do with, y’know,
fertility: blighting crops or herds, making women barren
or too fecund. c) The demons’ attacks are all about
relationships: inspiring hate within families and between
friends, inspiring distrust between spouses. d) The
demons’ attacks might be anything.

The fact is that the demons may not be real. Saying "the devil made me do it" might be true or it might be a group hallucination or a part of an act of repentance.

quote:

2b Demonic Attacks: The church meeting house
burned down. Brother Benjamin’s uncle was badly burned
in the fire. He’s healing but pissed off.

You could put on a bowler hat and basically go "I think this was more caused by the fact that you chucklefucks were keeping hay in the roof and happened to put it up there during a hot summer". Demons needn't factor in to it.

Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 11:25 on May 17, 2016

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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This was some time back but I just wanted to say "jesus loving christ".

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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You know, has anyone done a big overall look at Glorantha? Like not just copying out the Guide over and over but a big look. Like Mors' stuff? Because I couldn't find it on the archvies and whilst I know I am not for that job I was wondering if anyone else was.

The talk of various religious splinters inspired me.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Falconier111 posted:

I dunno, I've never been a fan of dissecting rules instead of going rear end-deep into weird settings; it's why I (partly) did Madlands without touching on GURPS rules. Hell, I might try to do some kind of readthrough of the Guide! Lessee, the first half of the guide is...

398 pages :suicide:

Ahahahaha... yes. Welcome to the worlds longest manual of a setting. Seriously it is batshit.

Josef bugman
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FMguru posted:

It's also incomplete. The real meat of Glorantha is in the details of its gods and religions, and there's a companion product to the Guide (that should be about the same size) covering that topic which will be along in a year or three.

Speaking of things set in Glorantha that are coming out soon(ish) check out the art work on Six Ages: http://sixages.com/blog/

I may well attempt a starter piece to introduce people to Glorantha.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

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Covok posted:

What is this? A game? An anthology book? A supplement?

Its a new game in the style of King Of Dragon pass.

Josef bugman
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Covok posted:

Whats the ETA on release?

Late this year/early next. The artwork is done, mostly, and the writing, but they are still ironing out the bugs.

Josef bugman
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Glorantha



In the beginning was nothing. The world was not, and all around was one. The one was both nothing and everything, all at once.

However eventually a thing defined itself as seperate to everything. This something was called "Darkness". From Darkness came water. From water, earth. From Earth, Sky. Later there came the middle air, but we'll come to that. Then came the eight great runes. Harmony, disorder, conflict, life, stasis, movement, illusion and truth. These things ruled in the endless "just formed" world. They were the building blocks, and they were in partnership and opposition. They (or specifically Truth and Stasis) built a mountain, the biggest mountain that would ever exist. They chose to live their and began to try and understand more of the world that they saw and was building around them.

(Much of this is conjecture, no-one not even Arkat himself managed to breech the Gods War back to the very beginning.)

It was decided that more division was needed, as the concepts were too large to do certain things. Hence the "new" runes were created, and applied to all manner of things. The dragonnewts became the first sentient beings, Earth and Skys Plant children set themselves up on the foot of the mountain. The Darkness folk lived under the world, the human peoples lived in happiness, the stranger creatures began to proliferate. This is a time of building and proliferation in peace and (relative) harmony. As this happened though the old Gods became concerned. They were happy to be used by all who took joy in it, but were worried that they would not be the Gods that were needed for the people. So they decided to stand aside, and to let another rule.

That Other was Yelm. Yelm was a son of the the heavens. He was the perfect ruler, but he did not wish to see the world change at all from it's current state of perfection, and so he demanded that all things in the universe were catalogued. It worked, and all things in the Universe were brought to do obedience and to be "recognised" by Yelm.


This is the world at the beginning/middle portion of the Golden age.

However then Sky lay with Earth and bore a second son. His name was Umath. The middle air. His first act was to tear apart his mother and father and create the middle air between them. He moved throughout the world, changing and refusing to accept the emperors authority. Yelm thought that Umath was hurt, and so sent a healer to him. Umath said he was fine and continued to dance and fornicate across the heavens. Yelm thought he was ignorant and sent a messenger to tell him to come to the centre and be acknowledged by him. The messenger was told that he wasn't going to. Yelm sent a third messenger who demanded that Umath listen to him. Umath said something very simple "Make me".

And so Yelm made him, by hitting him in the face with a planet. Specifically the War God planet, Shargash.

Umath died, but as he exploded he had already made change a part of the Universe again, more was coming undone in the court of Yelm. His Perfect Justice was Unjust, his endless powers were no longer as good as they should have been. The doom of the Gods was already being written.

Or at least that is what the priests tell you. Shaman would tell you that the powerful spirits that made the world fell to arguing over differences, some of them became greater spirits and demanded worship, when they should have been content with understanding. Wizards would tell you that all of this was caused by the splintering of the Prime mover, who created the universe, and that the divisions were caused by simple inventions of that mover (water, fire, magic etc) becoming increasingly unable to listen to their instructions. The mystic would tell you to focus on what these stories would tell you about how the world appears, and to meditate on the runes themselves. For instance, why do all of the runes in the council of pairs look like they could fit inside each other?


And now you are enlightened!

The World

The world of Glorantha is one of Bronze and bravery. It is inspired by any number of ancient societies and cultures, but is built for gaming in. This is just the first part of what is hopefully going to be one of the largest scale tellings of what Glorantha Is in the hope that people can become more interested in this fascinating world.

Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Aug 7, 2016

Josef bugman
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Zereth posted:

I only see it for truth/illusion. :confused:

For Disorder and Harmony, look that the three strands could go on either side of the other rune, creating a cage for disorder by but binding harmony to it. Look at the movement rune, all it would require would be a single stroke for all three sections of it to contain the stasis rune. Look at life, look how it could be bisected either lengthways or sideways by the death rune, but not stopped by it.



The Death of Umath

Okay, I gave a brief of how Glorantha began, but in truth even that is probably too complex, so we will start with the basic. The idea is that you will be playing in a world where mythological rules apply, not the rules of physics. The majority of games will take place in the "middle world" whose technological and societal basis is based in somewhere close to our Bronze or Early Iron age. The idea is that your characters will probably be part of organisations that are no larger than a couple of thousand people at maximum, not nation states like in D&D but clans and tribal associations. Although it possesses a great deal of backstory the best way of defining characters, runes and magic, don't run into the problems of "Proper Nouning" that you can get in Vampire and Werewolf. Because the world itself is vast you are encouraged to play with as many different ideas as you want, some easy examples are:

Members of a Lunar Association raiding into barbarian territory for artifacts and hidden knowledge.
Pious wizards trying to find a solution to the Kingdom of War.
Simple famers trying their best to survive in a newly reopened land.

The world is left somewhat undefined even though a heck of a lot of ink has been spilled about it because it is expected that Your Glorantha Will Vary (YGWV). This seems to be a problem for some people to work from, and I can understand why, it basically requires you to come up with a reason behind a great deal of things when you may have no context for it. One of the best examples is taken from the God Learners section of the Guide to Glorantha:

quote:

When the Raccoon Guardian of Tusunimmi Ford was skinned by a wizard, they moved Mr. Raccoon from Doctor Rock to the ford. When the Grand Vizier of the Soul Pearl (who ruled a notorious pirate fleet in Teleos) complained that the Two Righteous Golden Lion Dragons of the Mountain of Light were all that stood between him and a draught of the Divine Cup of Victory, eager magicians pleased their lord by catching and dismembering the metaphysical entities, removing them from the Spirit World entirely

Who are all these people? Who is Mister Raccoon and Doctor Rock? The truth is that they are whoever you need them to be, you are the one who is expected to take the vagueries of the text and make something awesome out of them. For instance, is Mr Raccoon one of the ancestors of one of your group? He may very well be, make something so that he is! The various different ways in which the world can be interpreted is one of the biggest things of the entire setting.

Inside Context Problems

The story I wrote up earlier? About the Golden age, Yelm and Umath? The write up I gave you is just one of perhaps three different readings of the same text. Is Yelm the villain? Is Umath? What if it's neither and they are both dicks? All of these potentials are held not just by people reading the stories, but by real people in the world itself. There is an entire civilization that favours Yelm as it's chief God. They are peaceful and civilised. They are also repressive and women fearing. There is another civilization who follows Umaths son, Orlanth. They are courageous and egalitarian. They are also violent and xenophobic. If you, or your players, chose to play one side or the other they could try and mitigate the excesses of either side, or just make your enemies seem worse by comparison. Because of this inbuilt contextual problem Glorantha often seems even more complicated than it already is.

We'll get on to this a bit more later, but the best examples of this are to be found in something called "The Gbaji Wars" where in two beings of phenominal powers fight it out to work out which of them is really the teller of lies. Or take the picture below. Below we see Ralzakark, the Unicorn demon leader of a chaos torn land blessing Ralzakark, who refuses to believe the other Ralzakark is Ralzakark. Next to them we have a completly concave man who is Ralzakark when he serves as emmisary to beyond a chaos blasted hellscape. The fact that this can make even the smallest bit of sense is both terrifying and interesting.


Ralzakark blesses Ralzakark while Ralzakark looks on

Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Aug 8, 2016

Josef bugman
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Rand Brittain posted:

My biggest problem with Glorantha is that it's all about mythology, and it takes that mythology more or less completely at face value. It rarely goes into an examination of how people pick myths that are convenient for them, or social hypocrisy, in a way that makes it all seem kind of false.

(Sometimes it kind of hints at looking deeper, like with the idea that maybe all the different Masks of Moonson are just a bunch of different guys claiming the name, but it rarely follows through.)

My second-biggest problem is that the people in charge of picking which books get written are a lot more interested in the Orlanthi than I am.

I think that it can do, let us take one of the Orlanthi heroes. His named is Jarankol. Instead of supporting what was most intelligent, backing up people to fight against the evil chaos god (potentially) he instead chose to go off and raid the wealthy lands of his neighbours. He was so good at it that he became a hero for it! He believed, truly, in Orlanth but he did not seem to help and instead used his magical might to enrich himself and his followers. To me that is pciking a particular myth as partial justification.

And yes, there is a lot more on the Orlanthi than there really needs to be. I think the worse places in this regard are Kralorela, a stupifying dull idea of what China was like during the Han dynasty, and Vormain, a Tokugawa Shogunate Japan in a bronze age setting. Every other area actually gets at least a bit more interest that those two.

Mors Rattus posted:

Well, one of the things is that the stories people tell in Glorantha become what is true. The stories and the truth of myth mutually inform each other.

That's really the thing the God-Learners started abuysing and taking advantage of in ways that are really quite fascinating but which started to break things because they were basically anthropologists loving with the building blocks of reality, but had all the cultural biases of, say, 1940s anthropology and incomplete understanding of anything they interacted with.

That said: yeah, the Orlanthi are clearly someone's favorites. Personally, I like the Praxians and Trolls.

This is also true, the myths and stories are part (and indeed the bedrock of) everyday reality. We'll get on to the God learners in a bit, but it is worringly true how much they are designed to tell players to "not gently caress around with myths too much or it'll start biting you in the rear end".

The Trolls are the second best covered, but yeah I'll be doing as much as I can on every people as we go along.

Covok posted:

Well, I think that has a lot to with the fact that the mythology of Glorantha is 100%, veritably true and you can even relive it for confirmation and reward. It's like the Guide to Glorantha says when trying to establish the world. I don't remember the exact quote but it's along the lines of "consider that, in a world where the gods are fact and the existence of the afterlife is 100%, then many would take death before dishonor since dishonor in front of their god is much worse than death, objectively" and stuff like that.

So, people could pick and choose in the individual society, but it'd be hard to hold constant, I'd feel.

It's worth noting I never read the guide more than a chapter in before I feel asleep so take that with a grain of salt.

To quote the guide:

quote:

These deities are palpably real, and the certainty of a life after death means that behavior is more important than survival for most people.

It's not too hard to hold only to myths that you "know" to be true, because almost all of the biggest gods have hundreds if not thousands of different aspects that allow you to be "dickhead" or "reasonably nice" whomever you worship. There is even an example of how Humakt, the death god, killed the entire world because he could not be stopped. This included men, women and children. There are also stories of Humakt dfending the innocent from the threat of undeath. They are both true at the same time, and so if you want to be a dick you will pick and choose the first one if you want to.

wiegieman posted:

Much of this comes from the fact that linear time is a recent invention,

Linear time is, by the usual measurement, only about 1600 years old by now.

Nessus posted:

Doesn't seem much different from Mage: The Ascension to me.

Except Glorantha has ducks, and ducks pay the bills.

I wouldn't know about this, as Mage has never been my wheelhouse, but I do appreciate the pun.

Nessus posted:

Historically, this seems like it was probably nearer to the case than our modern mental image of religion being bullshit made up out of whole cloth by priests one day who decided they wanted to milk the rubes. That doesn't mean it isn't in large part about rube-milking, of course, but people come up with self-congratulatory narratives to justify themselves without active malice all the time.

This too.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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We've been getting into some of the background stuff of Glorantha, as well as the more technical details of it, so let's try and roll it back to the smallest levels.

The basic unit in Glorantha is the family. This cane number anywhere from about 10 to 100 people. It is also the major building block for most societies. Most of the more "primitive" peoples tend to live in these sorts of communities solely. The next is the Clan. The clan is usually people who are all "related" back to an ancestor of some description. They may all be "related" and as such it is expected that no-one sleeps with each other, but they are not as close knit as families. Think of it like a large school. You sort of know everyone a little bit, even if you can't remember everyone's name. This is traditionally the basis of the more "settled" peoples of Glorantha, and in most parts of the world these may be the only people you see every day of the year.

The next step up is a Tribe. Tribes are made up of Clans, and are usually for defence, or for easy trading. They can sometimes number up to several thousand people. They are most common in the more "civilized" areas of the world and are traditionally somewhat fractious than the lower levels of orgnisation. In some places the Tribe is replaced with the City. The City is even more fractious, riven with internal disputes and foreignors, but it also usually bands together in times of need to ensure that there is nothing to threaten it. Most places will only go this high if there is an advantage to it.

The final stage is a bit fuzzy. Some would call it a "nation" but it is not like our idea of the nation state. Above tribes there are more likely agglomerations of tribal groups, ones that form both Kingdoms and (if particularly vast) empires. They are absolutely torn by discord most of the time. The big difference from our world is that, often, a nation is simply another step above a tribe, it doesn't neccesarily mean that you all swear alligeince to a particular flag, or that there isn't overlap between other nations. Borders, both physical, artistic and political are far more porous than ours with nations not being around for very great lengths of time in most cases.


From bottom to top:You, Your Family, Your Clan, Your Tribe, Your Kingdom
From top to bottom: How much you give a poo poo about these things

Of course, this is true in central Glorantha, where most of the people are Orlanthi, or influenced by them. The social units of the East are a little different. Here instead of close knit clans you also have kinship groups that are spread through different areas. They are closer to guilds that you are part of based on who your ancestor was. With the West you are more likely to be lumped into Caste restrictions, with the level's above more accurately described as "you, your family, your village/ Your local City, Your Kingdom". The division is important, because of the lack of kinship ties between village and city there is less of an urge for many people to fight and die for it. There are some advantages to the Western System though, which we can come to later. But in truth the average worker in the West will not care especially who is in charge at the city, or the kingdom but will know (in exquisite detail) the details of all the sheep going missing up on Old Elf Hill!

Now what does this mean? Well it gives you ample opportunity to have very weird stuff going on in your heroes back garden. The average person will probably not go beyond their clan or family grouping on a day to day basis, they contain the basic mythological and social unit of everything. But it also gives you options for larger changes, as the instability inherent in these sorts of things mean that you can usually make a nation if you are powerful enough. Indeed many kingdoms are founded by magically powerful peoples who just decide to band people together at a certain level.



Now, militarily your basic unit is again the family. There are more than likely a few people in your family who can fight reasonably well if they are not looking after the farm or hunting. So they form the traditional "defend the farmstead" sort of warrior. They can fight, they have the tools, but are not especially good at it and their real skills lie elsewhere. The Clan on the other hand can usually rely upon some of it's members to be really good at fighting. And not just fighting but killing. They are expected to have other people do some of the farming for them so that they con focus on martial actions. Because they can do that they are, usually, expected to fight better on the field than their lower down the ladder friends. The advantage of Tribes is that they should be able to form even more. But here is where it can start getting tricky. You see once you reach tribal stage it becomes a bit harder to simply pull people from their jobs and expect them to fight, because they need to keep farming or they will starve. Unless the tribe (or city) can properly recompense them the average soldier will be none too keen to go into battle if it causes him to come home to barren fields. Then with Kingdoms and Empires you encounter the same problem but from the proffesionals as well. They don't want to waste time fighting here for no immediate reward when they could be acquiring more money and land back closer to home. As for the common soldier, he knows that if he goes away from the farm he's going to come back with nothing, so why fight for you in the first place?

So, how do you get around this? Some places make sure to try and cultivate a specific royal army, though this usually requires a very competent hand. Some people simply rely on the kingdoms army through oaths of service, which given we are in a magical world can be enforced by dreadful spirit guardians. Some simply only coalsce out of a genuine immediate need. Most of the time though people stay in their clans, and do not get too involved in the ways of the world. Of course, it is expected that you definetly can and should get involved in everything.

MAGIC


Now instead of talking at length about what magic is in Glorantha, lets talk the basics. Functionally everything is at least slightly magic, the way you till the soil with a plow needs rituals in order for it to work at it's best. The sheep need to be calmed with a song before they can be safely sheered. The flax needs some sort of looking after if it is going to be woven correctly, etc. Functionally that means little more than what people would do nowadays when coming into work, little rituals that set you up for the day. Sometimes they are larger rituals designed to bring better blessings, but for the most part it is kept small scale. With one exception. Every year there are two weeks at the very end in which people need to revive the entire planet. Everyone on Glorantha takes part in some small way in a cosmic rebirth of the planet, to ensure that stuff grows in the ground, Rocks continue to fall downhill and the cosmos does not start making GBS threads out tentacle demons. In clans this is easy, you just get everyone together. In cities it can be a tad harder, as not everyone keeps the same faith, but for the most part people take part in it to try and ensure the world does not collapse.

This renewal is the only time most people will interact to the world before Time. You see, behind the curtain of the physical world is the unchanging "Before World" which contains all of the Gods, all of the stories and all of their permitations all at once. This obviously can't exist inside linear time, and so it doesn't, it lies underneath it. The same actions taken back then repeat now and allow people to strengthen themselves and the world by doing them. The magical nature allows people to renew the world, just as each little actions during the every day helps to knit it together. The problem is that it is not as simple as "put prayer in, get good stuff out". There are tonnes of people praying for wildly different, and even contradictory, things all at once. This lack of input is what helps make Glorantha "Mythic" and not Physics.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

wiegieman posted:

You know, they may be jerks, but at least the Vadeli don't have to go through all the usual bullshit for their immortality.

Their bullshit immortality is worse though. The Brinithi are cheerfully amoral. The Vadelli are actively Immoral.

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Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Congratulations on finishing! If it helps BNW did sound like a comic universe. Just going into way too much complexity about random crap!

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