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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I think an important thing to remember is that oWoD is down with all the New-Age-Hippie-Mumbo-Jumbo so we're going to dislike a lot of it since we're not down with all that New-Age-Hippie-Mumbo-Jumbo. Not saying it's right, but it is kind of something to consider.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I might have said this before, but the 90s were anti-technology and pro-spiritualism and we're kind of the opposite. To the people this was written to appeal to, destroying modern tech and returning to the natural order would be a good thing.

We like to make fun of power-nerd fantasy, this is a power-hippie fantasy. Doesn't mean we're wrong, but it does mean we can't apperciate in the way people of the past did due to cultural bias and that should be considered.

I'm only referring to the Technocrancy here.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Rand Brittain posted:

Yeah, a lot of this derives from the fact that Mage is based on the premise "what if faith healers, homeopaths, New Agers, and people who dress like Neo from The Matrix were right, and the good guys" and in the twenty years since then our cultural tolerance for faith healers and homeopaths has dropped below basement level.

Yeah, it's really worth noting that all this arguing is kind of a moot point. By the cultural perspective of these writers in the 90s, the Technocrancy and their consenus was evil.

Remember, this was made to appeal to people who actually believed the "new age" and feared the possible negative influence of scientific advancement. It was also a time where dangerous science was associated with unethical corporations.


It's like this: if you read a novel from ancient China, you might be confused about why certain traits are being praised and others hated by your own biases.

Point is, I just feel like there is no "right" answer to satisfy anyone in the Technocrancy debate. They don't actually exist, the writers were inconsistent about them, and they were writting from a different culutural schema that opposes our's on key points.

The Technocrancy are meant to be the villians, would be to the target auidence at the time, but wouldn't seem that way to us.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.



Strangely, the game seems better stripped of the Dragon Age license. If only because its love of random generation and the such just seemed so out of place for that license. That and the lack of Thief and Fighter powers. Also because it's just one book and not three books released over three years just to play till level cap.

IIRC, Mages ended up a lot stronger than the others due to spells. Did they fix that in AGE?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Glazius posted:

At first this is really compelling, but it made me wonder -- exactly how many people would react beneficially to finding out that angels genuinely existed?

Followers of the religions of the book would probably rejoice so a significant portion of the human race would, most likely.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Cythereal posted:

Until they find out that heaven and hell really aren't much like what their holy books say, much less how factionalized they both are. Novalis alone would make many hardcore conservative Jews, Christians, and Muslims poo poo a brick. And finding out that Blandine and Beleth were once the heavenly epitome of romantic love, two female-presenting archangels (originally)?

As for my notes on using In Nomine, I think I'll eliminate Jordi, fold his portfolio in with Novalis, and replace him with the Archangel of the Sea/the Waters I've been mucking with.

In fairness to the game, In Nomine is very 90s so of course there's an ecoterrorist archangel.

I mean, I was just running off the notion that angels exist. I haven't been reading the in nomine. I'm sure they're great, but the game isn't my thing. So, I was being general.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


ProfessorProf posted:

It only came out a few months ago and nobody knows it exists, so odds are extremely low.

If I can give some potentially pretenious advice, have you tried giving review copies out to potentially interested game blogs? Reviews can really help push copies. Turnout can be low on review copies, but an unbiased review can help people take the plunge.

Also, the link to the chapter preview on your dtrpg page doesn't work. Dtrpg doesn't like embedded hot links on new accounts. You might be better off giving the link openly. Had the same problem with my products.

Also, $25 is pretty steep price for a pdf for a smaller name. Shadowrun or other big titles can push those prices with brand equity, but most businesses really can't because people consider the investment too high for an unknown variable. Risk aversion and all that. Generally, $5-$15 is the range for pdfs with $10 being the average price.

Also, lots of forums have places to advertise games. You could even make a topic in this subforum about discussing your game as a subtle ad and no one would think less of you for it.

Sorry if any of that came out rude. Didn't mean it too.

Anyway, I've always wondered this: is the wyrm from werewolf a giant worm, an evil dragon (wyrm), or an abstract force of corruption?

Covok fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Feb 15, 2016

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Kurieg posted:

poo poo, she used "Transgendered Man" so I wasn't sure which she was referring to. That's so much worse.

Generally, Trans Man refers to a Designated Female At Birth who transitioned and vice versa.

Also,

unseenlibrarian posted:

Other way around, IIRC the quoted bit elsewhere correctly- Transmen are forcibly detransitioned, transwomen aren't mentioned because presumably, the writer's enough of a TERF that they're counted as men, who you can't play.

Holy gently caress. That's...no comment.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I keep hearing people mention that term, "intersectionality." What does it mean?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Lightning Lord posted:

Looking at Abby Soto's Facebook page I notice she has Caomihe Ora Snow as a friend. Snow, the designer of Queen's Cavaliers, is transgender. Wtf?


If this isn't sarcasm it means caring about people who aren't you and incorporating them and their concerns into social justice, not plowing over or actively insulting them, or implying their concerns are less important than yours or even made up.

Why would it be sarcasm?

Anyway, thanks everyone for the explanation. I honestly didn't know.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Alien Rope Burn posted:

Yeah, but Dead Money was trying to make a point about having to let the "Old World" go, which may or may not have been dickish, but at least was trying to make a point.

There's a weird push/pull with D&D where we (Americans) are taught in a lot of our stories and media that greed is bad and leads to a bad end. But D&D not only rewards greed, but makes it the primary reward system in the earliest versions. So you have this whole thing where it feels "just" for DMs to find ways to punish people for their greed, even though the game practically requires it in its default state.

Gordon Gecko would love D&D.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


gradenko_2000 posted:

Cross-posting from the TG Kickstarter thread


Okay, I'm going to end up defending Monte Cook's Cypher System here, because the shittiness of the "your stats are also your health" is a little overblown and underrepresented. It's something that neither I nor Tulul managed to cover in our respective F&F's before they petered out:

On taking damage:

* Whenever a character takes damage that is untyped, it first reduces their Might stat. Certain effects/attacks will sometimes specify whether they'll hit your Might, Speed or Intellect stats directly.
* If the character's Might is already 0, then the damage goes to Speed instead
* If the character's Speed is already 0, then the damage does to Intellect instead
* Any damage reduction applicable against the original type of damage still applies. That is, if the character has 1 Armor, and then takes 3 damage, but their Might is already 0, then they take 2 damage to their Speed stat.

On Numenera's damage track:

* If all three of your stats are positive, then you are considered Hale. No penalties
* If one stat is at 0, then you are considered Impaired. That means that applying Effort (spending stat points to reduce the DC of a task) costs more, cannot gain the benefit of a Minor Effect (an marginally better check result obtained when the player rolls a natural 19), cannot gain the benefit of a Major Effect (an exceptionally good check result obtained when the player rolls a natural 20), and only deals 1 extra point of damage if their attack roll is a natural 17 or higher
* If two stats are at 0, then you are considered Debilitated. That means that they cannot do anything except crawl to things that are within an Immediate distance away. If their Speed pool is one of those that are set to 0, then they cannot move at all.
* If all three stats are at 0, then they are dead.

On recovering stat points:

* Make a Recovery Roll, which is a d6 + character level tier.
* The result is how many points you can restore to your three pools, to be distributed as you wish, up to their maximum value
* The first Recovery Roll you make only costs one Action, or your one turn during combat time
* The second Recovery Roll you make costs 10 minutes
* The third Recovery Roll you make costs 1 hour
* The fourth Recovery Roll you make costs 10 hours. It's assumed that making the fourth Recovery Roll means you bed down for the day, such that your next Recovery Roll after this costs one Action again
* The book does mention a certain expectation that players might want to do the first and second Recovery Rolls back-to-back, and it allows that.

I'm aware of how the system says to take damage, how the damage track works, and recovering stat points: it's still a pretty rough death spiral.

As you either take hits or use your stat pool, you both lose the ability to use more points and, eventually, start going down the condition track which makes you spend even more points. Once you lose two stat pools, you're just useless and waiting for death anyway. And, still, your boosts to every action are your hit points so applying effort to anything is putting you one step closer to character death.

While Recovery Rolls mitigate this slightly, remember the system has combat. Only your first recovery roll of the day can save you in-combat. A tough battle is really vulnerable to the death spiral effect.

Furthermore, not only does it gently caress might based characters even more, it's worth noting that players can and are expected to expend effort to avoid damage.

It, really, feels like it could be easily fixed by just making the Health system something like "PCs Health is equal to the total of the maximum value of their Stat Pools and + 10 if you're a Warrior." Then the condition track doesn't make you bleed health quicker and you could put the "do nothing" option at a more reasonable 1 HP than just 2/3rds of your overall health.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Witch Girls Adventures is just disturbing. Like, what the gently caress?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Alien Rope Burn posted:

She generally had a lot of art of Lucinda murdering various pop culture characters,

This just perplexes me. Like, why would you expend effort doing that?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I love that it goes "d12+7 --> d20."

There is so much loving wrong with that.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Why not try to stat up Ms. Looks-Like-A-Box-Of-Crayons-Threw-Up-On-Me from the cover?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Barudak posted:

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if WGA had bizarrely specific rules rules for Cronenberg-ing something.

That would require self-awareness.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Astus posted:


Fantaji Universal RPG Part 1: Background and Basic Overview

I think they do the advertising pitch in the beginning of the book because you see those pages in the quick and full preview on DTRPG.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Astus posted:

I'll mention it in the next part, but I am completely fine with that advertisement pitch, especially since they outright say it is there to sell you on the book. But that isn't going to be the last time they try to sell you on how great Fantaji is. There is a sidebar on page 68, which is not in the preview, that is still written as an advertisement, and actually ends with them saying "Wow." as if this game is just completely mind-blowing.

Anthropos Games do not understand how to get people to buy their product.

Maybe they thought this would get people who flip through it on a bookshelf to buy it.

I feel stupider having said that even though I might be right.

Anyway, I've had this book sitting on my hard drive for a while. Been interested in it, but never got around to reading it.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Why do Magical Girl TRPGs always always seem to be either grimdark or involve court politics or both?

The only magical girl show I saw was Cardcaptor when I was growing up and I don't remember either of that in that show. Sailor Moon different?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Lynx Winters posted:

There's probably a lot of masculinity poo poo to unpack in there too, but people here get real weird and lovely when you bring that up.

So, nerds needing to make poo poo grimdark in a vain attempt to be taken seriously and insecurity over their own masculinity stemming from wanting to play little girls in a game?

Sounds about right.

Almost makes me want to make an actually earnest Magical Girl game like that Cardcaptor show I remembered growing up.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Mors Rattus posted:

Madoka has largely affected the fans, because the genre itself is divided into two parts - the part aimed at preteen girls primarily and the part aimed at post-adolescent men primarily. Madoka deeply influenced the latter half, but the former half is the earnest and non-creepy half in the first place, and has been ruled by Precure for a decade. This doesn't appear to be changing any time soon, and Madoka's a drop in the bucket compared to Precure.

That said, Madoka's influence on the Western fanbase and fan materials are part of why I hate it deeply, even more than I hate Nanoha, despite it being a much better show.

E: Also, magical boys clearly resemble Sinbad from Kaitou Jeanne and the dudes from Pretear.

Nanoha? I've heard of Madoka, but not Nanoha.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Nessus posted:

I think the big issue is that it seems like there's no reason why you can't do magical girls with a superhero rule set, possibly with some kind of house rule or invoked subsystem to reflect the typical presence of the power of friendship. So you gotta have some kind of selling point, man! Or maybe we need Magical Hero(ine): Now With DeviantArt Magical Girl Pictures.

I never liked that argument of "you could also do x with y so why make a game for x!?" It ignores the importance of theme and recognizing a game is more than just stats that measure your character's physical/mystical abilities.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is just one of my pet peeves.

For example, for a cardcaptor game (since that is the only MG thing I've ever seen), you could do it using FAE where every card had an aspect and stunt that became always true for the character until the end of a scene when a fate point is spent on it. Have them be physical cards players could pass around to each other (with perhaps some difficulty in combat). You could also do a playbook thing to reinforce some of the narrative roles like having a main heroine and supporting cast. That's not including some mechanics to handle friendship and the clear romantic tension in that show.

Just some thoughts on how you can push the themes with the mechanics while still having it all be earnest and honest.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Evil Mastermind posted:

But seriously I really want to take those ideas and what Covok said about FAE and make a "magical teens fighting evil with the power of LOVE" game.

I mean, I know I won't.

But I want to.

Nessus posted:

Oh, sure, I just meant like "this may be why the meguca games all wedge in poo poo like gratuitous darkness and courtly political wrangling." That's a good idea for a Card Captor style game though.

Half tempted to write up a quick FAE handbook for it. Might do it as a fan thing. I'm not actually that into Magical Girls except for liking Cardcaptor a lot when it used to air on the Kids WB when I was 7.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Mors Rattus posted:

i suggest going and watching the original CCS - it's a really good show, and the WB version skipped a huge chunk at the start because they wanted to skip to when Li was introduced, so they could pretend he was the main character. Plus, IIRC, the stuff after the first arc never got brought over, where Sakura makes the cards into Sakura Cards rather than Clow Cards and Clow's reincarnated rear end in a top hat self starts loving with her for shits and giggles.

No, that second part got brought over. I remember the butterfly lion and the risk of the cards going masterless. Though, I did watch it less and less during part 2: the fight with moon angel really felt like the climax.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Doresh posted:

If you're gonna use a supers system, better not use one that's too crunchy. Both magical girl and tokusatsu is very inconsistant when it comes to power levels. The heroes usually get punched around a bunch until they go all "I have enough!" or "Unforgivable!" and curbstomp the baddie. You certainly never need to know the exact lifting capacity of Kamen Rider Kabuto, or how big of a caliber you need to shoot Cure Black.

This was also lampshaded in the official Sentai parody Akibaranger, where the leader was a loser and massive Sentai otaku who won fights by watching put for enemy speeches and actions that would traditionally signal their defeat.

A good supers system for it would probably be Masks (the Powered by the Apocalypse one, not the OSR one).

It's damage system is based around emotional states (Angry, Afraid, Guilty, Hopeless, Insecure), it has a system for influence that can be used to model friendships, its stats are based on self-image (with a move to affect them called "Comfort or Support), it has mechanics to handle working as a team in combat, and its all about growing up and taking on/accepting responsibility in your life (a theme that I remember being a part of Cardcaptor, though it has been years, and likely showed up in Salor Moon too). For the most part, the core playbooks hit the notes well-enough, but not perfectly (this is where the suggestion is weakest).

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Evil Mastermind posted:

But seriously I really want to take those ideas and what Covok said about FAE and make a "magical teens fighting evil with the power of LOVE" game.

I mean, I know I won't.

But I want to.

Doresh posted:

Not just you...

Well, if you two are interested, all this talk made me write down the ideas so I didn't forget them and decide to try for a pick-up game tomorrow.

Night10194 posted:

It's time for more Ironclaw: Squaring the Circle!

I remember someone convincing me to do a one-shot of this game once. I was afraid it was a furry game, but I am the type who loves trying new things out. Still convinced it is a furry game, but it isn't overtly sexual or creepy so it isn't much of an issue.

Played a gorilla paladin who bifurcated a bunny bandit.

I remember the system feeling very lethal and combat felt like a really dangerous gambit. Specific encounter/GM ruling or how the system is overall?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: White Wolf draws from 90s anti-corporate, anti-science beliefs which exalt nature and imagined, nature-worshiping ancient cultures; to modern day readers, it will be seen, on the whole, as laughable bordering on abhorrent.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Kavak posted:

That joke is basically all I had to say. Everything that Ascension claims to offer is there in Planescape, minus the magic system and the modern day setting, but you shed a ton of baggage with both of those.

If anything, the lack of a modern setting and the magic system "exalting" some people to power over others makes the setting better for the discussions Ascension wants to make. It lets it come off as less anti-science (though, arguably, they want that) and remove a lot of baggage.

Zereth posted:

I remember finding it weird even at the time.

I think that's because it mostly appealed to new agers in the 90s.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Don't cassowaries have frikken velociraptor claws and a bad temper?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.




Hello, can I help you with your broken window? Sorry about the base--why are you all running away in terror?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Are you two sure? I'm seeing the image just fine.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Zereth posted:

You aren't browsing the forums in https are you?

I'm browsing without any https protocol enabled. Why?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


What would a nuclear winter actually be like?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Libertad! posted:

Also, what's up with randomized bolding in comics? I even see this in professional publications and not just amateur art.

The intent is for emphasis: the words that the speaker stresses when speaking.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Anyone else just pick up on the fact that the great corrupting force being a serpent is a phallic metaphor?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Not to spoil later F&F posts, but I learned from a friend that the mechanics aren't the best written either. A lot of it feels like the creators didn't fully understand the system they were working with.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Kurieg posted:

Well, yes and no. There were things he could have done to salvage it, but that would have meant making heroes sympathetic and beasts not justified by divine fiat.

We're never told what would happen if beasts didn't do what they do, because it's just a given that they are. The idea is there that they're preventing something worse but the best assumption I can figure out is "a world where people no longer remember that fire is hot."

It's an idea that gets worse when put into any modern society. In some extremely ancient world that predates the earliest civilizations, then the existence of monsters to teach and remind people about the dangers of the world could make sense, if their punishments were lowered or at least made less abhorrent. But, in a modern society with education systems, written languages, the internet, and other such oddities, monsters to teach people about the dangers of the world is arguably redundant and, with how it seems to be implemented, malicious.

One could argue -- coming from someone who never read the book -- that the game line might not be as terrible if monsters weren't played up as objectively good and right or if them being played up as objectivity good and right was done as some play on Gnosticism and at attempt at cosmic horror.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


oriongates posted:

I assume that the entire point was that Hercules is an rear end in a top hat.

That is, Heroes represent a modern version of mythological heroes such as Hercules, Perseus, Susanoo, etc. who are famous for their feats of monster slaying while the PCs are playing the Hydra, the gorgon, the manticore, etc. The idea being that the reversal of perspective shows that the monsters are the persecuted "Other" while the Heroes are bullies and brutes who are known and loved because history was written by the winners. Thus the foes of Beasts are sarcastically called by the same title.

Except of course, from the sound of it, Heroes are pretty much perfectly justified in their desire to slay Beasts and apparently the only reason Beasts could even be remotely considered positive is that they serve some kind of cosmically necessary role...because the game says so.

Like someone doing a really, really, really lovely job of making a grim-dark Undertale tabletop roleplaying.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Kai Tave posted:

Wick's response to people pointing out that a game called 7th Sea which drew ostensible inspiration from the Age of Sail contained very little to no venues for sailing or piracy threw Chinese river piracy in their faces like the world's smuggest idiot.

e;fb

One of my IRL friends often defends 7th Sea's choice to do this by pointing out that most stories Wick was inspired by were landbased and that swashbuckling isn't necessarily about sailing. It seems to be one of his pet peeves on the subject. Personally, I feel that argument misses the point as a lot of the cover art depicts sailors and boats, but it's a fair of an opinion as any other, I suppose.

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