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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



potatocubed posted:

How much of the material from Blood & Smoke is in VtR 2e?

More precisely, if I wanted to run a strix-based VtR 2e game, I know I'd need the Chronicles rulebook and VtR 2e... would I also need B&S? Would it be helpful?

They are the exact same book with different titles so if you have one you have the other. I'm also pretty sure you no longer need the chronicles core book since all the game rules necessary to run VtR are in the 2e book, but someone else will need to confirm that.

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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I've always found the Ordo Dracul to be the most interesting of the covenants. Partly because they seem to be the only covenant that recognizes the political dramas of vampires as distraction and are actively trying to solve the curse.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Count Chocula posted:

I know crossover games are iffy, but 'what are the Strix?' sounds like the perfect Mystery for a group of Mages to investigate.

And there's the Counting Bane.

i'm fairly new to nWoD/CofD but I thought the main issue with crossover games was mixing player splats and that poaching antagonists and mysteries was part of Mage's whole deal

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



MonsieurChoc posted:

There's some terrifyingly powerful things in the nWoD: you just don't get to play as them.


Unless those things are a mage, mummy or demon

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Honestly, and i say this as someone who loves Chaos as a faction, I think Nagash was the best part of the setting and should have ultimately usurped the chaos gods as big bad of the setting. A mere mortal, through sheer pragmatism and amorality, managed to ascend to become the most powerful practitioner of magic in the entire world, dunk on an entire empire of people, eventually ascend to godhood, and even up until the end times was consistently interesting as a character with his best bro Arkhan the Based.

I even remember how hopeful people were when End Times: Nagash came out and I think part of that comes down to how compelling the undead as a whole were for the Warhammer universe.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Kavak posted:

How did McFarland write Demon again? Did he, really?

I'm wondering this myself, are we sure DaveB or Rose didn't ghost write it?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Kurieg posted:

Rose co-wrote the Demon Core book, but Matt was lead writer on most of the supplementary material and it's all very good.

Thats what makes everything to do with Beast so confusing. How can the same man do both? Is this what happens when someone buys into their own hype?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



At this point all Beast deserves is a total rewrite from the ground up, and possibly being turned into hunter or mage antagonists.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Night10194 posted:

I believe Beast actually sold pretty well.

Thats extremely disappointing for humanity

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Robindaybird posted:

Given they sympathize and agree with the True Fae to the point of handing Changelings over to them - they're already Changeling antagonists.

Whoah wait a minute, I knew that Beasts sympathized with the True Fae to an unhealthy degree but they actually capture and hand over Changelings to them?

Why does Macfarland have the audacity to pretend that Beast's are in anyway redeemable when they apparently hand over the rape victim stand-ins to their rapists so they can go BACK into their sex dungeon. Thats hosed up on enough levels that I can barely fathom.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Robindaybird posted:

I can't remember if that was actually in text, or a conclusion I came to after reading it and seeing the anthology where a Beast tried to force a Humanized Promthean into becoming a Promthean again - but it's not too far fetched to believe they will hand Changelings over to True Fae base on things as written.

wonder no longer because i found it

"Beast: the Primordial page 227' posted:

The Gentry, for their part, see Beasts as curiosities: they’re
born of stories and their lives follow familiar mythic patterns,
but they exist outside the Arcadian precepts of fate and time
that bind the True Fae’s existence. Theirs is a wary respect,
the sort you might extend to a strange animal that might take
your hand off at any moment. Some of the oldest parts of the
Primordial Dream allegedly hide secret paths that lead to the
courts of the Kindly Ones, and Fae hunters sometimes invite the
Children of the Dark Mother to join them on their wild hunts.


so yeah Beasts actively help the fae hunt down mortals and escaped changelings for their rape dungeons

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



What if we staple Xcrawl's fluff to Beast's crunch? Some of those atavism could be refluffed as wrestling moves.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Ratoslov posted:

That is the RPG they make you play in the 9th circle of hell.

I suppose they do get bored of playing FATAL all the time

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Doresh posted:

Now here's how to fix Beast: Nagash was the first one.

I'd play the poo poo out of "Nagash: the Assholeing". Mostly because that game would at least admit its about playing villain protagonists and being as cartoonishly evil as possible.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



That sounds a great deal like the anime GATE but way less pure garbage

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Well nWoD has always been better about that than oWoD. In nWoD people are a lot less helpless in the face of the supernatural and Hunter conspiracies are some of the scariest groups of motherfuckers in the setting. Openly lording your vampire status over the mortals is all well and good until you end up being dissected alive by Cheiron's R&D department.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I have finally figured out how to save beast. Just make it a Hunter supplement with the Heroes as a Hunter conspiracy and use endowments to represent their abilities. At this point there is literally nothing to salvage from the line aside from some actually really cool Hunter sample characters and an antagonist so beyond redemption that you simply can't help but hate them and their increasingly desperate moral grandstanding.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



gourdcaptain posted:

Well, it's nice to see absolutely nobody at Onyx Path with any pull has absolutely any desire to stop this disgusting mess of a gameline or clean it up in any way. And there's people on other message boards I've seen talking about how great it is! *sigh*

Here and 4chan of all places are the only places i've seen be critical of it at all.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Humbug Scoolbus posted:

Every one of these WoD entries reinforces my belief that it is the most poorly managed and least fun gameline ever.

Well FATAL exists so i'm not sure about that.

It can probably crack the top 20 though

Edit: Be aware that this only applies if when you say "WoD" you mean "Beast" because Mage, Hunter, and Demon are :krad:

AnEdgelord fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 22, 2017

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



rumble in the bunghole posted:

I have no idea what the appeal of shadowrun is. The setting is a mess of stuff that doesn't work together and everyone hates the system. Is cyberpunk 2020 that bad?

I really like the setting but I also have unironically read crossover fanfiction and liked it so maybe I just have bad taste.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Nuns with Guns posted:

The Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds are both fascinating because of how they epitomize a lot of the mechanical problems with 3.0 and 3.5, and the hideousness of D&D morality as a whole when you try to address it "maturely". I've thought about covering them here, but I figured most people probably absorbed knowledge of the most hilarious bits already, since they are first party D&D books and all.

I only know them by reputation but I'm unfamiliar with whats actually in them. I personally would be interested.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



So what changed between 4e and 5e that was so different? From my untrained eye all I saw was some minor mechanics updates, but I can't really parse the difference between either edition's mountain of rules or spot any significant fluff changes.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

Some people can detail the finer points with mechanics but they went backwards on decking, which had gone completely wireless. It's not a complete 180 but they moved back in the previous direction.

What? That seems super dumb. What could possibly be gained by removing technology that the real world currently possesses from a supposedly near-future (ostensibly) cyberpunk setting?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

I went back and clarified but they brought back cyberdecks. I think it was mostly done for style reasons because I think grogs were upset that it wasn't "cyberpunk" for them.

Those people are so stupid and wrong that I barely even know where to begin with that bullshit. Is there a way to put wireless stuff back in?

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Kurieg posted:

So presumably int his alternate universe the supreme court is staffed entirely by adorable dogs like in John Oliver's deepest fantasies?

Also Terrafirst! sounds like goddamn morons. "We'll prove that nuclear reactors are unsafe by explosively making a nuclear reactor unsafe!"

Well they only seem like idiots if one doesn't entertain the entirely plausible (and mentioned in the background) scenario that they were convenient fall guys for Shiawase

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



wdarkk posted:

Aren't most vampires incredibly easy to kill if you show up at noon? It's been a while since I played Vampire but I recall you have to succeed on some roll to do anything to save yourself from certain death in the middle of the day.

Also I'm pretty sure fire still deals Aggravated Damage so a "gas station lighter+can of hairspray" combo could mess them up

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I'm just mad that the 'The Reckoning' could have been a callback to 'Hunter: the Reckoning' but was not.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Desiden posted:

Is there, like, active infighting at OPP over Beast? The difference between the sections that are "beasts are totally everyone's friends and heroes are the real enemies" and "beasts are full of poo poo, here's why" are pretty striking. I wonder how much of that is leading to tension among the writing teams, versus just differing in universe perceptions that everyone's cool with.

I've been wondering that myself, some of the mentions of Beast in other non-beast books have not been kind. Their description in The Pack seems to regard them as little more than naive children who can be used by the Forsaken and Pure as weapons to ruin the spiritual resonance of places.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I think its worth it to make the distinction between Ascension and Awakening. Ascension muddied the waters hard when taken with the rest of oWoD but Awakening tends to provide context to a lot of the other game lines. I've always felt Awakening fit quite well into the larger setting of nWoD.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Night10194 posted:

Hello welcome to all of Beast.

If anything, Beast (aside from its awful abuse apologia and all) is proof that they're reallllly running out of room in those shadows.

I think Deviant will be good since it tackles that "Weird Science" angle that no other game line does, but I sincerely think that Deviant should be the last nWoD game line.

Beast on the other hand should be quietly jettisoned once the kickstarter obligations are fulfilled and then apologized for a few years after that.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



MonsieurChoc posted:

I could see a game delving deep into UFO lore and stuff, since it's been used since the nWoD core but never in a major way, but yeah it's pretty much complete.

I think there might be something to doing an astral splat in the vein of werewolf and geist but beast has kind of tainted that space and I'd be cool if we literally never saw that idea manifest if it means less of a chance for game lines like beast to happen.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



In some ways I'm almost glad of how much of a poo poo show Beast is. Its at the point where its so bad that I can actively enjoy my hatred for it without feeling bad about it.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



wdarkk posted:

I feel like "supernatural homicide of some kind" is the most common cause of death in the WoD.

Strangely I think the universe is more horrifying if, for all this supernatural stuff, cars still kill more people than any supernatural group.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016




beat me to it

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Night10194 posted:

It's not like even if Squad was a power boost you really needed power boosts. In the very great DW campaign I played in, the GM just said "I always build with the assumption you will win every fight and the actual strategy and drama is picking where and why you apply your 3 person walking trump card in this conflict of billions where everyone is screaming for you."

There will always be one deeply integrated, exciting sounding, but poorly thought out mechanic in every FFG 40KRP game. Cohesion is DW'S.

Out of all the 40KRP games my favorite will always be Black Crusade, and I always felt that it was underappreciated as well.

I've never run it but reading it gave me insight into the idea that Chaos is the faction of Creatives, Intellectuals, Revolutionaries and Freedom Fighters as much as it looks like a bog standard army of Mordor.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Night10194 posted:

The core joke of Chaos is that it's actually more rigid than the Imperium, just it's norms are skull piles and excess, etc.

See I always read the core joke of Chaos being that it might be a legit better alternative than the Imperium to drive home the Starship Troopers-esque fascism parody.

Perhaps its both.

Edit: Not to say Chaos is good, but that the reader would be totally justified in looking at the Imperium and thinking "You are literally worse than an Evangelical's idea of Satanists and Cthulhu cultists put together".

AnEdgelord fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 10, 2017

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Night10194 posted:

The real joke is that FFG were the last people working on any of it that got there even was a joke.

Yeah GW's latest offerings are reading uncomfortably like a celebration of fascism as opposed to the parody of it. It always feels super uncomfortable when writers write marines as the unequivocal good guys who are pure of heart, and noble, and super special awesomes for purging those filthy xenos/heretics/potentially traitor citizens of the Imperium.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



Horrible Lurkbeast posted:

You got me curious ,warhamms: Is there a marine organization supporting the Ordo Hereticus?

No marines, they are supported by the Sisters of Battle instead.

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AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016



I don't know why they had such high expectations when Space Marines are really dull rpg characters. You are a brainwashed warrior monk who barely remembers their own backstory outside of their warrior monk brainwashing which deliberately scrubbed the individuality out of them. They only become interesting as characters when they go renegade, regain their individuality and have character flaws besides "being too much of a fascist".

Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, Chaos Renengades and even Imperial Guard are way more interesting since they have some semblance of individuality and have motivations that include nuance.

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