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jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Night10194 posted:

The thing about the Evas in the show is they're a piece of poo poo as a weapon. They barely work, the people who designed them are so secretive about what they are that they're hard to fix, they're expensive, they run on a short battery and a loving extension cord, and it's nearly impossible to find people who can drive them.

The game book instead insists they're the most powerful weapon humanity's ever built and could wipe out armies casually and blah blah. When in the source material they're a terrible weapon, but if all you've got is a pointed stick you go with the pointed stick since as you said, it's a waste to throw other weapons that literally can't hurt them at the angels.

The only time an Eva is really powerful is when it's Berserk, which means it's breaking its bindings, because an Eva is essentially an angel bound by cybernetics with a human soul shoved into it (If I remember properly, it's been years since I saw it). This is not a good thing. Berserk actually doesn't happen much in the show, certainly not enough to build a PC class around, and whenever it does it's treated as a horrifying near-catastrophe instead of a power up. But that's just how the game rolls.

Eva’s can’t actually run out of power and really could causally destroy armies... when they are acting as free angels. But an Eva that isn’t controlled isn’t actually a weapon, it’s a kaiju. So yeah I think I agree that Eva’s are pretty lovely weapons.

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jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


wiegieman posted:

Wouldn't a reveal that the base was an empty decoy and you were protecting nothing actually be Peak Eva?

Someone swapped Anno's Freudian textbook with Thus Spoke Zarathustra and he hasn't noticed yet.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


The Burning Wheel did some pretty cool stuff with players being able to influence each other with it’s “Duel of Wits” subsystem. Basically each of two players (one of which can be the GM playing an NPC) decide what concessions they want from the other party and engage in a mini game influenced by their skills and stats that results in either a total concession from one party or, more often, a compromise from one or both parties. The system, if I remember correctly, cannot force your character to believe anything, only to honestly promise to do try to do it to the best of your ability.

It’s only used for big complex important debates, and either party can at any time reject the outcome and draw swords.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Just Dan Again posted:

My concern with Burning Wheel's Duel of Wits (and all of its subsystems, really) is the huge number of skills available. A successful master debater seems like they'd need a ton of skills for different situations, and figuring out which ones to take would be a task in and of itself. There's also the standard issue of all of these skill points coming out of the same overall pool- if you're a master debater you're probably going to be useless when a fight breaks out, and if you're a paragon swordsman you're not going to do much during a duel of wits other than shout encouragement from the background.

Even if you aren’t very good at debating you can still usually gain a compromise, or I use the non-skill based strategy parts of the system to gain an advantage. Also your farmer or knight or what-have-you getting verbally destroyed is the first step in the path to being able to argue with god himself.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


“They, too, are just Werewolf: The Forsaken wolfies“

I guarantee they are Werewolf: the Apocalypse werewolves. Nothing from 4chan could be otherwise.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Hunt11 posted:

What was edgy/stupid about those wolfs?

I mean they were parodically incompetent, hyper-violent Captain Planet side characters, described by their own creators as eco-fascists. But the reason 4chan likes them is that they are older and therefore better.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Halloween Jack posted:

Many of the Tribes are based on real-world oppressed groups, and they all practice some form of shamanism. Even worse, it was the 90s. So right off the bat you've got a lot of Problematic fantasies about playing colonized people with magic powers, and 90s Neopaganism with all its foibles including ahistoricity, cultural appropriation, a fairy tale understanding of feminism, and borderline fascism. Even worse, some of the Tribes also have nasty associations that are presented in a neutral tone, like the Red Talons (who want to cull the human population), Black Furies (see "fairy tale feminism" above), and the Get of Fenris, who have a Nazi problem. It's very much shaded by that vague attitude of "Christianity and modernism and technology are bad and evil, New Age mumbo-jumbo is liberation" attitude you also see in Mage and even Vampire to some extent.

The Black Furies aren’t so much “Fairy Tale Feminism” as just a straight up mix of homophobia and misogyny. Also lol “borderline fascism”. They did clean it up quite a bit in later version though.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Battle Mad Ronin posted:

Does the book generally do a good job of explaining Wises, Traits and Circles?

Burning Wheel had an annoying, pretentious and entirely too on-the-nose tendency to purposefully underexplain a lot of things. I remember the Traits list having things like "He's a Jonah that one" and "Joan of Arc" as unexplained Traits that the player/GM (that wasn't really clear) were supposed to either know what meant or figure out for themselves.

A significant number of people have had this reaction to burning wheel, but I’ve always been completely puzzled by it. The book seems pretty clear to me I guess?

Edit: I suspect it has less to do with the book itself and more to do with people who already are vaguely aggravated by the existence of games mechanically different enough from Dungeons and Dragons to not be immediately understood being called idiots by the game dev on twitter for no immediately understanding his game.

Like the game explains itself better than D&D has since moldvay basic, but everyone knows how to play D&D and no one knows how to play Burning Wheel.

jakodee fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 31, 2019

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Ignore this post.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Alien Rope Burn posted:

You can always get me to post this because it keeps getting funnier every single time I see it.

https://pastebin.com/eTQ8xF5X

I wonder why Morke and people like Morke are so concerned with not making moral judgements of characters and insisting that morally repugnant characters must also be working for the greater good of mankind?

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Night10194 posted:

I mean I know the answer is his lovely personal behavior but this is also the standard issue case for hacks reaching for cheap drama because they mistake it for moral complexity.

Mistaking apologetics for lovely real life behavior for D E E P N A R R A T I V E is common to both scumbags and bad writers.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Night10194 posted:

Oh, I love them. Though it'll be interesting to see one in play in a full group game; I'm curious how useful her healing will be when the party's got an especially tough Soldier as a front-liner. Her d10+2 heal spell undoes a *lot* of work in what I can throw at him each turn once she gets it. Even her basic Heal skill +Divine Mark for +2 Wounds healed each time already saved one fight.

Also I've made most of our region of the Balkans and it turned out really well, I think. I'm looking forward to writing it up tomorrow.

I skim-read the book once I learned it was written by Brettonia-Guy and them’s some decent region building rules.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Barudak posted:

This seems to be a consitent thing in these cyberpunk games, that they struggled to grasp exactly what being a capitalist hellscape would mean.

They’re written by people who have never left their suburb except on a school field trip once.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


HerraS posted:

4e has a lot of the same people who wrote 1e working on it so its not that surprising

That ain’t good. That really ain’t good. I have nothing against 1st edition, but that really, really ain’t good.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Alien Rope Burn posted:

I don't really think so. Culturally insensitive? Sure. I mean, Rifts World Book 4: Africa demonstrates that exceedingly well. But he's had a fair number of employees of color over the years, probably more than a lot of game companies of Palladium's size. So it's possible, but there's not much direct evidence to point to.

The Coalition aren't, of course, literal Nazis through I refer to them as such, as the parallel is an easy one to make with their symbology and leadership. It's been pretty clear over the years that they aren't supposed to be racist towards other humans - well, save Native Americans, because Native Americans are magically special, which... is a whole other thing. The Coalition's racism is literally towards other races - which isn't to excuse it, but it exists purely in the realm of fantasy. Ultimately, his excuses seem to come down to cultural relativity, the superior orders defense, etc. Which I don't think holds much water, but I feel like he doesn't want the Coalition to just be, say, classical orcs where murder is always justified. And that can be a point to make, but he intensely overcorrects.

Also that moral relativity generally also only ever comes up where humans are involved. It's still okay to kill as many demons as you like. So it flops as a message when "well, you can't just brand everybody like this as evil except these fuckers."

Using “Culturally Insensitive” as code for “Really Racist, But Like Also Ignorant” is very 2005.

“He May have written Native Americans as metaphysically different from other humans, BUT..”

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Young Freud posted:

There's other empires to model fiction on, like the Persians and the Mongols, who would take the best of the occupied culture to incorporate it into their own, instead of impose their ideals in the occupied.

I want empires other than Rome and Nazi Germany dammit.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Alien Rope Burn posted:

Wayne Breaux wrote that book. Kevin Siembieda published it, so he's still responsible, of course. But that was Breaux.

The words we have to discuss this sort of problem are poo poo. I do what I can.

That’s fair and Very True.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

Ok, the Realm in Exalted is significantly different. They're actually based on empires like Persia, for example, and to a lesser extent Rome, China, and the modern USA. Satrapies, wealth extraction, second-class citizenship for conquered peoples, and enforced religious syncretism; none are good, but really, not Nazis. Not even meaningfully fascistic, they're the British Empire but with a more intense aristocracy-worship.

They also, uh... mostly oppress and kill humans. They really don't have a 'blatantly inhuman' enemy to fight, unless you mean the raksha at the edge of the world? The vast majority of the Realm's conquests and ongoing wars are human nations they grind beneath their heel.

I just really don't see any of your accusations fitting the Realm, even though it's the big central state of the setting and is intended to be primarily antagonistic.

He’s not arguing the Realm are fascists, he’s arguing that fascists love big, oppressive, militaristic empire that are portrayed as sometime or mostly justified by the evil and danger of their enemies. I agree that the Realm are a pretty mild example of that problem that are mostly shown as antagonists however.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Lambo Trillrissian posted:

Exalted is a very good example of the challenges of writing a "realistic" (within a fantasy setting) imperialist antagonist: no matter how much you intend to clearly spell out that they are awful people doing irredeemable awful things, some of your most dedicated fans are always going to side with the fasc because the only thing holding them back from identifying whole hog as fascist in real life is generic westernized americana "We beat the germans and they were bad and fascist but we are good and not, because we beat them."

Take away the aesthetic flavour, present the raw politics of imperial exploitation, and you're guaranteed to have some people gleefully lining up to toe the oppressor's line.

Which is not to say that you shouldn't write imperialist and fascist antagonists into fiction. It's an important narrative space to probe and attack in play. You just need to be ready to own up to the price of people declaring allegiance with the enemy.

I don't think the Realm is the best example, being run by idealized capital "N" Noble super-beings, but yeah, I get your point. And I don't mean that the Realm isn't an example, just that it's not totally free from elements that draw fascists other than just "a big empire".

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019



gently caress, don’t remind me of that, I see really obvious examples of it everywhere, and I live near San Francisco.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


MJ12 posted:

There's also the whole insane Star Trek versus Star Wars subculture which led to some incredible hot takes about how the Star Trek Federation were actually evil dystopian communists who were inferior to the Empire and supporting the Empire was totally a-ok because they were better than communists.

It's pretty insane.

This is just called Conservativism.

jakodee fucked around with this message at 15:06 on May 8, 2019

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

Yeah this is really the Cold Warrior ethos in a nutshell. 'Better dead than red' lead pretty directly to stomping out democracy in Latin America, among other things. Also to the widespread American belief that democracy requires capitalism and the kind of economy seen in Trek must require oppression, ironically leading to embracing anti-democratic capitalism in order to stave off communism.

It's painfully effective at preventing utopian futures, I'll give it that!

-Must get rid of democracy to prevent capitalism from falling to prevent democracy from falling to prevent...

This goes on.

Edit: But what is the equivalent of this in the Realm, to get a little bit back on topic.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


sexpig by night posted:

yea Kev himself is just that 'woah cool robot' missing the point of Gundam meme.

The Coalition itself has super attracted a lot of fascists in the community though, woopsie!

I mean he’s all “cool robot, people with cool robots are cool!” like a five year old. Which is completely indistinguishable from fascism because fascism is the political ideology of five year old boys who just saw their first animated Batman film.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


SirPhoebos posted:

At a certain point I feel that Kevin's intent no longer makes a difference. Especially when he keeps doing it for 30 some years.

jakodee posted:

I mean he’s all “cool robot, people with cool robots are cool!” like a five year old. Which is completely indistinguishable from fascism because fascism is the political ideology of five year old boys who just saw their first animated Batman film.

Again I’m not sure being a fascist because you really are just that dumb is an impossibility.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

Hey, the DCAU was pretty clear on the 'fascists are bad' angle, let's not drag specifically that variety of animated Batman into this. I have a lot of nostalgia for it and I don't want to associate it with RIFTS.

I wasn’t tying to insult Batman, just the feeling Batman inspires in some young people.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


SirPhoebos posted:

You can't write "good players won't stand to see anyone tortured no matter how monsterous" when you've just given us NPCs of :airquotes: "good" alignment who do just that.

And yet Kevin did just that.

It's stuff like this why I can never discount the possibility that Kevin is simply a shitstain. It certainly fits with how he runs his business like the Pettiest Bourgeois.

jakodee posted:

Again I’m not sure being a fascist because you really are just that dumb is an impossibility.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Alien Rope Burn posted:



Rifts Coalition Wars 2: Coalition Overkill, part 5 - "The thought of imprisoning thousands of innocent people and subjecting them to endless torment fills him with a child-like glee that is sickening to behold for all but the most vile and twisted individuals."

:siren: If you're not down with reading about death camps, torture, and implied sexual assault, you might want to give this update a skip. :siren:


"I do not like this missile-filled world you have summoned me to!"

The Twin Faces of Evil
By Bill Coffin
Additional text and ideas by Kevin Siembieda


We get no less than four fiction pieces, so in brief:
  • The Final Words of Pax Tyrannica: This is an internal monologue from a Tolkeen mage in a shelter under bombardment discussing how the Coalition forces are getting more ruthless, and he bemoans the Tolkeen fighters getting more "savage" in return. However, he resolves to never surrender. Then he leaves the shelter and is presumably bombed, given the title.
  • Borrowed Time: This is a letter from a "Tolkeen Patriot" to his "dearest Scamander", but is sadly missing Ken Burns narration. He traveled across the Megaverse to find "The Mobius" (from Rifts Coalition Wars 1: Sedition), and poo poo-talks the Coalition for a bit. However, he reveals a peer as captured and gave up his return location, where they shot The Mobius out of his hand. He hides in a cave behind waning magic shields, resolves to never surrender, and then teleports the letter to his love. He is presumably gunned down, given his situation.
  • Greetings from Camp Prosek!: This is a letter from a Tolkeen soldier to his "Dearest Lareesa" from a Coalition prison camp. He denounces Tolkeen as corrupt and misled while declaring the Coalition as merciful saviors. However, the start of a letter declares it has a secret message in special ink that will be revealed when held up to candlelight - and certain words are bolded to basically give the message "They're torturing us and going to kill us all, help!" It's a clever little conceit, but how would the camp soldiers miss the opening bit where he openly talks about the special ink...?
  • A Moment of Truth: This letter is from a Coalition officer of unknown rank, who was ordered by Drogue to wipe out a civilian village on an open channel. Rather than risk getting killed by his underlings for insubordination, he has his green troops wipe out the village, an act he shortly regrets. While initially he tells himself he had no choice, quickly he realizes that was wrong. In the middle of the massacre - which includes a woman having her honor "assaulted" and kids being tortured, as his men go ape instantly - he loses his poo poo and starts gunning them down. They manage to restrain him, and leave him tied up in the village. Tolkeen wizards find him and torture him into a "confession" - not really necessary, with his feelings of guilt - and then hang him. Drogue covers up the circumstances of his death after Tolkeen dumps his body on them, claiming he died heroically in battle.
Really not seeing two faces of evil here. Yes, Tolkeen is ruthless, but...


"Do you see me wearing a bathrobe? A pointy hat? Smoking a pipe? Get lost!"

General Drogue's "Projects"

So, there's the rare phenomenon of civilian villages turning out to have potent mages fighting back, and Drogue is using that as a pretense to declare all civilians as "potential militants". He's not looking to eliminate all civilians - though he'd like to, he sees it as a distraction that would just spur resistance. No, instead, he wants to convince Tolkeen soldiers and citizens that the Coalition will treat them fairly upon capture. This is false, of course, he has every intention of setting up literal death camps for them.

We also get new summaries of all of his current operations. While two have been mentioned - Operation Hardball, the elimination of Tolkeen's populace, and Operation Spoilsport, their sabotage effort. We also then get Operation Kingkiller, consisting of an attempt to assassinate King Creed and the Circle of Twelve, which has been a singular failure so far. We also have Operation Hailstorm, which is their main troop push towards Tolkeen.

Operation Hardball has two main efforts. One is to "dehouse" Tolkeen supporters and civilians by razing their communities to the ground. On paper, they're supposed to drive people out of town first, but on the ground, General Drogue's units rarely give them the privilege. The second consists of concentration camps. Well, they have a different name for them.


"When you think about it, this is really your fault, I read Tarn too."

The initial purpose of the Coalition "Detainment Camps" is just to separate D-Bees and human mages from "ordinary" humans. In theory, the D-Bees and mages will be shipped off to death camps for extermination, while mundane humans will be enslaved in work camps to build the eventual Coalition colony atop Tolkeen's ruins. There are currently three camps in Wisconsin: Camp Prosek, which is for sorting. Camp Purity is a death camp for D-Bees and spellcasters, though executions have not begun yet. Lastly, Camp Victory is a work camp for humans, though whether or not they'll eventually undergo the same extermination process is unclear. It may happen. In general, they're holding off on mass extermination to avoid having Tolkeen soldiers just start fighting to the death; the real slaughter will begin once Tolkeen is defeated.

Many Coalition soldiers assigned to these camps find their consciences proving to be an issue, and though many may bully, outright is torture outside of "fanatical misanthropes". Granted, I always thought the horror of real-life camps was just how easily ordinary people can turn to evil, but nope, just a few bad apples doing the real damage. Otherwise, they're just doing "cruel horse-play" or "jokes on the prisoners".

:barf:

Protip for Death Camp Employees: abuse is abuse and being the lesser abuser is not an excusable moral position.

We get a lot of precise details on the height of the walls and the weapons on guard posts and how many suits of power armor there are. Since Drogue recognizes that people might be hesitant to throw D-Bees into furnaces, he has large contingents of skelebots to pull the trigger on prisoners if necessary. Similarly, the living guards are there in case anything goes wrong with the skelebots.



"Ugh, is death poking me in the temple again? Dammit, death!"

Lt. General Nikoto Galva is yet another tired "brilliant but unstable" leader who's a big aficionado of suffering, and is essentially a serial killer who uses his military power to murder towns and the like. As such, Drogue put him in charge of the death camps, the two no doubt did their big sadism secret handshake. He's about as exciting as dried puppy shits.

I am so loving done with this section, I barely have words. The fact it has to stop and remind us that death camp guards are human, too, gosh, many don't want bad things to happen, they just deal mild abuse, it's only literal insane people that can go through this, WHICH IS A CHILD'S HACKERY, YOU EMPTY-HEADED CAR CRASH OF A WRITER-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw91RJ_m_7g

Next: Tolkeen's Tactics.

But what if Kevin is just a poor, innocent dumb boy tho?

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Night10194 posted:

It takes some goddamn weird blindness to go 'man we better be careful we rebuild the reputation of OUR version of eugenics!'

I feel safe saying at this point that D&D can straight up teach and reinforce racism.

Skandhar-Bhal reminds me of some isolated Pennsylvania religious communities I’ve been to.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Dawgstar posted:

That would probably tie into why only the male robot-furries can knock up the organic female furries.

Every day we stray further from God's light. Yikes.

There is no god in this dark future.

Only the Egyptian pantheon but *sexy*.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Night10194 posted:

It never ceases to amaze me that the Libertarian ideal of a world without government is a world that still have governments, they just don't call themselves that, and they're far more transparently corrupt, authoritarian, and generally shittier for their citizens.

E: Like, I know this is because they're another right wing nonsense ideology, but seriously. Even when they're writing the story you still get poo poo like Spyglass everywhere!

Libertarians think a government is defined as a ruling entity that attempts to enforce moral frameworks other than property rights. They want absolute power over the things (and people) they own. How much do you think libertarians overlap with people who think they own their kids until they turn 18?

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

I think the idea that all magic comes from an invisible sun would work pretty well, if magic had something thematically to bring i together and make it seem important and vital? Mage the Awakening does a good job of that.

Let’s not let Monte Cook’s magical land drive us to nostalgia for our previous mess.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

Are you perhaps thinking of Ascension...?

Yeah. A lovable mess, but maybe not a great example of the poignancy of magic in tabletop rpgs.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

Awakening is the successor game to Ascension, a much tighter work that has a very coherent metaphysics of magic and is themed around magic is an object of obsession, delving into mysteries, and the secret workings of the world being just out of reach.

It does a very good job of making magic feel like an underlying structure in reality which is hidden away (it's a Neoplatonic and Gnostic setting) which endows the world with wonder and terror when it can be seen and understood. It's currently waiting for its first supplement in second edition.

Yeah it’s definitely one of the few good examples of gnostic-wizard-games from the gigantic pile of them that exist.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Snorb posted:

Seconding the art; what I'm seeing of Invisible Sun is just as fantastical and out there as the art from Numenera (either edition). It's loving gorgeous stuff.

Then Invisible Sun kinda just trips and falls flat on its face at the starting gate. I know Numenera has its problems with death spirals and GM intrusion, but at least it told you fifteen loving pages into Numenera: Discovery "Roll 1d20 vs. a set target number to succeed at narratively-important tasks." Where the hell does Invisible Sun tell you how to resolve tasks?

(DISCLAIMER: I have no real issue with Numenera's GM intrusions, but the one and only time my group played it, I was the GM, and the only intrusion I wound up doing was steering the group's fighter glaive to a different building in a city.)

I will Stan Numenera until the day I die. That game would be great if only for the exact same mistakes Monte Cook made in every rule set and every setting he ever wrote. So if you know how to counteract some powerful Cookery, you should try that game.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Joe Slowboat posted:

The point of the Realm's misandry, as I understand it, is to have a sexist society PCs can play in without it recapitulating precisely that real sexism. It's for playing out Austen, with daiklaves, and without the constant creeptastic possibilities of a player saying sexist poo poo about women then going 'but it's the setting! That's what the Realm thinks!'

Also if you want to nuke a misogynist imperial power that has it coming, Exalted has Coral (aka Age of Exploration England). They're significantly easier to crush than the Realm would be.

I kinda like the sexist culture of the Realm as a setting element (although you shouldn’t use it unless the other members of the group want to engage with it). By making the seething *only* about as sexist or somewhat less than modern America, it’s fairly easy to engage with. And reversing the power structure but not the justifications for that power structure avoids much of the Cis White Man smug power(less) fantasy of a society were women are warriors and men stay at home knitting.

Men being prone to anger unmoored from their community is a gender idea that exists in real life, just here it’s used to justify men being considered inferior rather than excused by their supposed inherent inferiority.

Basically the writing avoids the standard incredibly sexist drow/amazons/planet of the women scenario by having an actual matriarchal society rather than whatever men’s rights activists think “matriarchy” means.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Xelkelvos posted:

Basically, if it wasn't a game made by Monte Cook, it'd be good? :thunk:

It drives me insane that I can’t tell the difference between the good parts of that book that were written by people other than Monte and the parts that may or may not have been written by Monte in a moment of divine guidance. Like I clearly know who wrote the main classes as being “lovely Fighter, Rogue who is actually just a person with actual life skills, and God Killing Ultra-Wizard”; but I don’t know who wrote the genuinely inspired parts of the setting material (not the parts that are just faerun).

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


They should have just had a sidebar explaining that the Realm is fine with gay and trans people without any reason other than "Why wouldn't we be?". This accomplishes both driving out CHUDs and also doesn't presume homophobia and transphobia as the default states of humanity.

jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


kommy5 posted:

I see my prediction was correct. In addition to being the setting's elves, to my mild surprise, we have hit what I hope is Peak Furry. Not only are they the creator's pet, they're also explicitly made to be fetishistic sex objects to everyone in the setting. Also their gender is so special, their pronouns are named after them. Or the other way around.

Aren’t zie/zir already existing English pronouns? Created to translate some other language I think?

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jakodee
Mar 4, 2019


Tendales posted:

They weren't invented by the authors. I've seen it as one of the proposed gender neutral pronouns to replace he/she, back in the day.

In the context of this game, it's used when the subject has a gender, but that gender doesn't correspond to male or female. Zi Ri and Herethroy co-lovers are "zie", Flokin is "it".

Honestly they have extremely nice mouth-feel. I’m going to name a character ”Zir” or something in a game.

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