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Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Midnight Screamers were always a fun concept for a small game. Beleth is fun if you play as her a whacked out sleepless aunt who will not stop hounding you while acting like a bad Maleficent impression she knows you hate. Which she needs because the Marches ain't too well defined or fun to be in mechanically. I always liked using them more as an excuse to journey to strange places that Earth can't offer and you don't want to bother with the endless politics of Heaven and Hell.

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Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I'd vote for Rev Cycle 1 just for the horroshow. APG is ok too. It's not very good, but it's better than the CPG.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



At the least you CAN involve Blandine and Beleth to some extent, because they're on record for loathing the poo poo out of the politics of Heaven and Hell. One of the fun parts of the setting is the fact those two fight their own entirely separate War, and they don't like other people getting involved. It can give ethereals and Dream Soldiers a lot of leeway to do their own thing without getting nailed to the wall by every murder-happy celestial in a 100 mile radius.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Angels And Demons: Bitter motherfuckers.

EDIT: And if you want a cool rear end plotline to revive and fool with for a high-level game, do something with Legion. Dude was basically everyone's worst nightmare in the form of a continent-sized shoggoth gobbling up humans, living and dead, to have your very own hivemind worst case scenario. A lot of In Nomine games veer into alternate timeline/universe concepts, including ones such as "Every time Legion achieves his Fate he wins the timeline and eats it up and then combines with other Legions who have done the same and go cruising around with Lucifer corpses for battle puppets to find more to absorb"

Black August fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Feb 26, 2016

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Simian_Prime posted:

The 20th century has done much to feed him (it?), and soon it will grow strong enough to emerge upon the world as The Demon Prince of Genocide.

That'd be a hell of a kick to the nuts for poor Larry.

I had a slight turn around with the bug guy. Players traveled back in time to the Fall, one of them a Malakite. Had to keep hidden. But he ended up inspiring Uriel as a merciful being during the Fall, so he became the 'First' Malakite in that sense, and reset the tone for the entire Choir from one of slaying to defending when they went back to their present. Turns out Uriel had fought alongside Blandine to Beleth's Tower to try to reclaim her, but was fatally wounded and recalled King Arthur style.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Elohim are stupidly fun to play, and to GM. You'd think the pushed idea of cold and emotionless would make it boring, but there's a hundred ways to play it without making it some sad Spock parody. It's enjoyable to figure out what the Masterless Master would be like for a certain Word. Plus they're good for straight faced vicious sarcasm. Also Ofanim are weird as being, I think, the only Choir that can gain dissonance from USING their resonance. Ofanim and Calabim have always been kind of eerily close to one another conceptually, less of a Fall and more of a Small Hop Down what with the whole beings of elemental power concept.

But yeah, Elohim. Khalid... yeah. Elohite, the beings of logic and reason, with the Word of Faith. Focused monomaniacally on Islam. Yeeeeaaah. The worst part is that a lot of these batshit idiot ideas got painted on in thick globs, and later canon couldn't really contradict it, only try to mitigate it.

Seriously what the living gently caress was (still IS) wrong with 90s RPGs.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I guess it'd make for a good villain backstory. Anyone with that much effortless power and hatred for authority is going to start calling up Satan for favors and murdering people for fun and power right quick.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Robindaybird posted:

If she was ever treated as an outright villain, it'd be more forgivable, but she's treated as the cool anti-hero.

Yeah, that'd be the fun though. A bunch of bullied and fearful chumps stammering "Well she's an anti-hero and still with us!" before the mass serial killing starts and most of them end up dead and saying "Shoulda gunned her down when we had the chance."

EDIT: And then you call in Delta Green and the real fun starts

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I vote the Infernal Player's Guide for sure. It has the amazing trash cover and it's much better written than most of the previous books in the line, only outdone by the Ethereal Player's Guide.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



It's hilarious how speed is pretty much the #1 to break any game, every game, forever, and ever. If you can get extra turns or extra actions, you win. Every time.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



It gets touched on later in the book some, but one dynamic I've always enjoyed wringing out of the politics-obsessed Hell is the stark different between Fallen and Hellborn. Fallen at least knew Heaven and made a choice. Hellborn, though, came right up from the mire into a world that gives them 0% chance of a sane acclimation. Especially in games with stronger themes of free will, I like looking at how that can affect the politics and outviews of certain Princes and Servitors; if you subscribe to 'born in Hell' not automatically equaling 'evil as gently caress', you have a society predicated entirely on the First Fallen and those who came after creating a world that ensures everything born in it can never get past the first question before fear and horror grinds them down. And if the Fallen weren't there or able to press their truth on Hell, what kind of conclusions would the Hellborn begin to reach?

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Count Chocula posted:

This is true, though? Reality is mostly subjective, especially in a world where human belief can create Tethers and determine what Words rise and fall. And human viewpoints and actions are subjective, filtered through their own personal reality. It you're a demon who can magically enforce their own subjective reality, the 'lie' is even more 'true', which is where you stop pretending those words mean anything.

And this is why their demonic resonance affects reality and the Symphony.

Congrats you learned how to Balseraph :snakedrugs:

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



it's a hard roe but after a decade+ of consideration I stand by my judgment that Djinn #1, Calabim a very close but still #2 :colbert:

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Calabim are easy when you hit upon the idea they're really mutable in form and style. Each one has a built-in unique Discord, which you have a dizzying array to choose from, and they're quintessential in demonic style, simply being 'destroyers'. So maybe Calabim of Fire are Balrogs, or Calabim of the Oceans are Deep Ones. You can get mythological with it, or adapt favorite stories, as long as the Calabite is demonic somehow. Calabim are basically the beginner's pick to let your imagination go wild. Plus a useful resonance, frequently useful Band attunements, and extra points from Discord.

Hell's crappy but reliable answer to anything and everything Heaven throws down with. And at Belial's level, Lucifer's idea of a celestial nuclear option.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Unknown Armies was always one of those systems I'd never find the time or heart to play, but I still love reading the material for ideas or the fun of it. RPG safariing.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Count Chocula posted:

Have you brought any UA ideas into In Nomine? 'You Did It' seems like it wouldn't fit with angels and demons, but stuff like the Demon of Bong Water and angelic obsessions could fit. If for some reason you wanted to merge the settings, you could have Words replace Archtypes, and humans generate Angels and Demons by believing and following them.

Nah. I was going strong in my own direction along with my remaining two players for the last 50% of the campaign, I had influences and plenty of surrealism inspired by material like Unknown Armies and Mythos horror, but all of it was strongly focused on a more mythic and mystical flavor to the setting, with the contrast and brightness knobs set all fiddly.

For system conversions, I don't got the energy no more. I stick entirely to GURPS now, and maybe will try to blend In Nomine with GURPS Ultralite someday for fun.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Hypocrisy posted:

Wait...who are the Cruel Ones?

Magog ain't nothin' to gently caress with.

Old Testament Style

:unsmigghh:

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I always wanted to do something fun with In Nomine's Nephallim. The concept of 'giant angel mutant' is pretty hardcore. But the default setting is allergic to it unless you make it a CoC style remote wilderness enclave sort of deal. At the least, the setting didn't skimp on adventure seed ideas and fill-in-the-blank mysteries to play with, instead of explaining everything.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Belial and Beleth have the coolest Heart protection setups. Belial's has always been a weird sort of gold standard, and I've seen it come up pretty often across different games.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Yves and Kronos exist, as far as canon is concerned, outside of time, with both likely seeing and existing in all separate timelines simultaneously. Celestials and ethereals have to march to the beat of the Symphony, though there's little stopping you from saying that the celestial and ethereal plane move on different flows of time than the corporeal. Puts some fire under the PCs if you do that, and let them know, say, a day in the celestial world is a week or even more in the corporeal.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Count Chocula posted:

You could do some cool multi-generational sagas that way, with the PCs as the Guardian Angels/Patron Demons of a long-lived family or community.

Yeah. It lends some weight and meaning if time passes slowest/'normal' corporeally, meaning that time in the ethereal and celestial needs to be spent wisely, or create situations like that, or just cases of angelic/demonic disconnect when mortals remind them "I haven't seen you in 3 years" when it was just, say, 3 days topside.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Cthulhu Dreams posted:

Kronos being Yves evil twin feels forced to me - if Yves is a unique being from the higher heavens, where did Kronos come from? If he's not why does he have these weird abilities no other angel does.

It's been explored in canon and fan material. Doesn't HAVE to be Fallen Yves. Partial canon is that much like Yves being every good choice, Kronos is every negative one; he exists because the Symphony has a Fate it can meet, just like a Destiny.

He could be a part of God, the Metatron, Yves, all the dead from the Fall, Lucifer himself, the Lower Hells personified, Fate itself personified (and thus unable to be reasoned with), something that came from a dead/failed Symphony, and a dozen more. Maybe he was always there, maybe he's the one to actually grant Words, maybe he only appeared when the Symphony was able to meet its Destiny, maybe he can only die if Hell loses; whatever the case, Kronos is meant to be the most powerful being in Hell, and able to manipulate the Symphony itself, which nothing else in Hell can, which cements his nature as extrademonic to some extent.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Israfel reeeeep

The Book of Songs is kind of dry, but it does give us Izzy. She's kind of neat conceptually, as being about as close to an 'Angel of the Symphony' as you can get. She's a Seraph, she has Music, she's still approachable and a part of Creation, she's hideously powerful, she makes for a good NPC for any setting. She's also cautiously friendly to demons, which allows some cross-gaming. Throw in some conspiracy or another with the Archangel of Song and you got a musical for a game.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Rand Brittain posted:

The Celestial Song of Laughter sounds like it would be downright insane if you managed to get a spot on the Tonight Show.

Yup. It's pretty much how Kobal has stayed alive and why Nybbas might be smiling while the fabric of existence tears through him like a claw rake shot out of a supernova. They are freaking DISGUSTING with Essence.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Angels and demons can be trippy dippy or horrific elder gods (I mean hell by default Kyriotates look terrifying and Shedim are basically shoggoths), or both, or neither. The game wants you to make up your own mind.

Yeah sure maybe some Creation angel might sing a rock that makes you high and take it to a party for the night. But you know what happens when that angel starts getting careless about those kind of tricks? Judgment calls. Then you go back to Heaven and you don't get to leave.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



I forgot Rebecca had changed her name. But yeah. Ethereal Player's Guide.

Now you see why I want to run a game that only contains Blandine, Beleth, and this entire other megaworld that exists of all these dreams and domains and spirits and broken gods. EPG is fantastic stuff, and one of the last books written outside of a Book of Ghosts, I believe. It shows in quality.

I came up with an ok idea for allowing players to play AS Superiors once, by having a campaign seed where something happens in the Place Beyond The Farthest Marches (the ethereal equivalent of the Higher Heavens / Lower Hells) that demands Superior intervention, Legion War style. Only going out that far basically stretches them out to barest resources, leaving them PC level in point with some handful of advantages. Then the players could have their little Superiors play plot, and see how badly they annihilate the campaign with the massive power shifts that result from their choices in the plot and who dies. Kind of an excuse for a fun score card. Also, there could be game potential in being back on earth and trying to pull something off while nearly all the Superior are gone to handle this crisis.

EPG could factor into that as a side plot reaaal well.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Count Chocula posted:

No offense to the other writers, but the EPG seems way better written than the rest of the line. Even the Stereotypes sections are good.

No, yes, I agree absolutely. She is the best the line ever had - the EPG was also shadow-co-written by some of her friends and Beth over the years. It shows her flavor of Nobilis-peak weird design genius and polish where even if the mechanics aren't much to write about (fault of the core system mostly) there's a lot of new interesting STUFF and life breathed back into the setting with something that makes me wish In Nomine had had this writing quality since 1995. I'd hail Satan with a Force tossed to Hell to be able to write as well as she does. But she turns the Ethereal into its own true third side in a setting that has long had interesting ideas about all the parts and pieces shelved hard to focus overly on World of Darkness copycat with all-encompassing angels and demons while every other 'race' or 'faction' basically sat to watch or get tore apart between.

In my own writing bias it also validates me having really liked and worked on my own with how Blandine and Beleth essentially fight an entirely separate War, just them alone, over this entire other subcon world. I guess the best thing I can say about the EPG is that it gives 'size' to the setting that it was dying to stretch out into after so many disaster splats.

Black August
Sep 28, 2003



Ethereals were an afterthought from day one, yeah. The Marches is where they got their first real expansion, but it was a back of the book light set compared to the full Ethereal Players Guide, which does do a great job of allowing you to explore something that isn't "Celestials and the inferior humans who serve them"

But, open setting. Can easily tell Uriel to gently caress himself and just say ethereals have a diminished but still present impact on the modern world. You just have to decide exactly how Blandine, Dominic, Laurence, Beleth, Asmodeus, and Nybbas are dealing with it.

I mean you know that Mike and Baal are already flagrantly using ethereals however and whenever they like.

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Black August
Sep 28, 2003



That preview of Uriel is actually part of Edelstein's credit, from an ancient barebones Uriel write-up he did and used to have hosted. I can't find it online anymore, but it had a full write-up of all attunements, not just those three. It was pretty austere and out of whack with the tone the line tried to cultivate later, Uriel was painted as a deeply disturbed dude. Laurence is a big softy kid compared to his Dad. Edelstein even had an extremist Laurence write-up he hosted too, who is basically a Tsayadim Archangel at war with the Marches, Blandine, and the rest.

I vote Tethers. Rev Cycle is 5 whole books with a lot to laugh at in them, may as well round out the flavor books first.

EDIT: It's also hilarious to note how much of Uriel's attunements and powers focus on detecting disturbance. He has direct overlap with the Grigori and rife with the subtle hints of no love lost. Grigori of Purity must be Tier-1 out of their minds. But it's also subtle backup to show how incredibly furious Eli was that he was more hardline bitter about the Grigori than even a psychopath like Uriel.

Black August fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 28, 2016

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