|
I mentioned on the chat thread that I was looking for a RWD sedan to lift and run rallyx with. Well, here it is, a 2006 Dodge Charger Police Package: Hard to make out with all the salt spots, but spot the rust big hand-sized patch on the rear fender above the bumper fascia Except for that bit, it's very solid. For any given car you might encounter, you would say the underbody looked not that great in terms of rust and corrosion, but for a car that's seen what it has in New England, I'd call it pretty good. I mean, look at that street. 2 years ago, it was freshly paved. This car was run by the NH State Police until it was retired at the ripe old mileage of 176k mi. In its glory days, it probably looked like this: http://i.imgur.com/60GhNdV.jpg Note how the front door molding is removed for the big shield -- that's a factory delete option. That's copper over forest green. The body shop did a super ratty once-over with forest green before sending it to auction. The small time dealer I bought it from had a lot of 4 Chargers that all got retired at the same time. 2 sold right away. 1 was selling for $2200 with significant engine problems (I heard him moving that one around, and it sounded like severe rod knock or worse). Listed at $4000, this one had been sitting for a while... About the thread title -- when I first got in the car to test drive, I was hit with an overwhelming scent of "airpane bathroom." After a while, I caught the clear and present smell of piss. It was a statie's car, so who knows what happened. The seller was looking to move the car, so he dropped the price to $3700 with a promise to get the car steam cleaned to remove the piss smell. I came back for it a week later. The detailer said most of the smell was coming from under the rear seat cushion. No big surprise. The piss smell was gone. Done deal. As I drove it home though, the faintest smell of urine poked up again. Or at least I thought. I need to do an independent smell test on someone. Maybe get tons of baking soda under the back seat. Blues Brothers check list: cop motor?  Nothing special about this HEMI (340hp when it came out). There's an integrated engine hour meter as part of the Police Package, and some heavier duty cooling and charging components. It doesn't have that classic P71/taxi mod motor sound, and I can't decide if that's a good or bad thing. It sounds good, just really muffled. cop tires? Not that I can tell. They're a truckish 225/60/R18, which is a size shared with some R/T models that year. cop shocks? Maybe. The Police Package supposedly has uprated shocks, but haven't found details. The Police Package is heavier than the normal V8 even without extra equipment in it, so that seems reasonable. Also came with uprated rotors and pads, though those pads apparently sucked and got replaced with something that didn't wear as fast. When I got the car, I realized that this is the 4th car model that Das Volk and I have had in common. 1. the very same 190E 2.3-16v 2. C6 Corvettes 3. GenV Vipers 4. LX Chargers. Though his Scat Pack has a good 145 more hp. I swear I didn't consult him before I got this one. Project goals: - eat burgers in the parking lot of a BK/McD's dressed as a plainclothes cop, pretending to be crooked like in The Departed - win New England Region SCCA RallyCross 2016 Stock RWD. If no one else ever shows up in Stock RWD, should be victory by attendance. Whatever, people loved it when I ran the P71. - lift the car, run bigger tires, wait for the apocalypse
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 05:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:28 |
|
|
A pack of Air Sponges, rotating out as they started to shrink inside their case, is the only way I got the smell of gear oil out of my old Subaru's carpet. Excellent thread title.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
This will be an absolute joy to see at the Rallycross. RWD (especially stock) class always needs more cars. So far you won't even have to attend the first event to win 
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 05:41
|
|
|
Seat Safety Switch posted:A pack of Air Sponges, rotating out as they started to shrink inside their case, is the only way I got the smell of gear oil out of my old Subaru's carpet. Read thread about RWD project. Find out how to get goddamn differential gear oil smell out of my Volt's carpet. Win Win.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 06:06
|
|
|
Extra posted:So far you won't even have to attend the first event to win I bought it too close to this weekend's event. I'm def going to the Stafford Springs 2-day event to rack up points. Last time around, I was too cheap to get snow tires for the P71, so didn't get enough speed to be crowdpleasing in the snow. This time, I'm definitely getting a set for the Charger.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 06:26
|
|
|
The cop chargers have different rotors, fyi. Slightly larger and thicker.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 06:46
|
|
|
Bilstein makes HD shocks for that. Not sure about taller springs, maybe there is an adjustable sleeve/perch type kit? Stock ride height is probably fine though. And I would probably get at least a new rear seat from a junkyard or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 06:49
|
|
|
Elmnt80 posted:The cop chargers have different rotors, fyi. Slightly larger and thicker. Yeah, the inspection shop busted me on the brake pads, so I had the rotors and pads swapped off. The braking feels exactly the same with the new parts. I mean to measure the new rotors to make sure they're the right ones, even though the shop confirmed that they got the bigger ones. jamal posted:Not sure about taller springs, maybe there is an adjustable sleeve/perch type kit? Stock ride height is probably fine though. The AWD Chargers had 1" more ride height. I was thinking of trying to get that set of springs/shocks on the cheap. I know the ride height will be fine for rallycross; I just want a goofy raised sedan. There's a 3" lift kit out there with longer MacP spindles and spacers, but I'm not sure if I want to go there. Tomorrow: get pics of the interior and not very fun column shifter, engine, and tire clearance
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 06:58
|
|
|
I love how you can see the orange peel on its rear end from 15 feet away and in a picture.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
Nice beater. Get a $50 ozone generator from Amazon and use it for about 30 minutes with the car closed / fan recirculating. Smell will be gone after a couple treatments, at most. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GS5L08
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 16:50
|
|
EVERYWHERE 
|
You shoulda wringed out the piss in the carpets for me dude. Nice car though!
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
Super Aggro Crag posted:You shoulda wringed out the piss in the carpets for me dude.  Looks like a fun whip, kimbo. If Roadkill is any measure, rallying Chargers is a heck of a good time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
Lovely flat front seats: Piss-affected rear seat:  The seat cushion moves as one unit:  Dunno if it's supposed to come up that easily. The pseudo-column shifter:  As you can see, it's not really concentric to the steering column. The angle it moves through is pretty big, with the D position landing in front of the key. This was one of the most widely complained about things for police -- it's pretty janky to operate because of the short arm and awkward sweep. The gear indicator gauge seems to only go off the shifter and isn't wired up to the trans, as it once showed R while I could still rev it freely in neutral. Had to reshift into R before the trans changed. The AutoStick button on the end of the handle and shift control rocker are such an afterthought ergonomically, but they really work to change the transmission programming. Out of the box, the 5 speed shifts well. It's smooth, responsive and times shifts reasonably. And it holds gears in AutoStick mode. I'm not sure what setting I'll use for rallyx. I'd like some engine braking, but I also don't want to be down in 1st the whole time spinning on dirt/snow. CERTIFIED  The unadorned 5.7:  The grease pen on that one coil obscured by the hose says 123K. Seller guessed it meant it was replaced at 123k. Closeup of the rust/corrosion levels:  Pretty gross, but honestly better than I would have expected for how it's lived. Rear tire clearance:  It's got about 1.5 inches to the front wheelwell. Front tire:  That bolt holding the spindle to the A-arm is the limiting factor. I can just barely stick one of my fingers through the gap. It measures about 17mm, which is way to close to the next taller snow tire size I could get, 235/65/R18. The whole tire dilemma is how to spend as little as possible toward the lift project. If I had plenty of clearance now, I could try to run skinnier and taller tires and be done with it. But since I'm so limited by the stock suspension, I think I want to avoid getting non-stock tire sizes just so I can sell them without having to explain anything, should I ever go whole hog and buy a different set of tires. I can get some stock sized Firestone Winterforce studdables for $400, or Yokohama Iceguard studless truck tires for $500. I'm willing to pay the extra $100 if it means better traction for rallyx. Is there anything special about a truck snow tire other than dimensions? Are studdable tires less grippy when run without studs? I don't plan on going studded, partly because I don't want to make roads around here worse, and partly because I hate driving on studded tires. e: just looking at that bolt in the front suspension is already discouraging me from DIYing any serious suspension changes. The rust on the body in the back looks much worse than it is in real life. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 17:21
|
|
|
Fwiw I am pretty sure it's a Mercedes auto box or derived from one at least
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:e: just looking at that bolt in the front suspension is already discouraging me from DIYing any serious suspension changes. That's what spacers are for, especially if you're going to lift it. Edit: Looks like it's extended spindles for Charger lifts: http://universalcarlifts.com/product_info.php?products_id=54 meatpimp fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
meatpimp posted:That's what spacers are for, especially if you're going to lift it. Chop fenders, bolt on flares, lift it. So glad you decided to go through with this crazy idea.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
meatpimp posted:That's what spacers are for, especially if you're going to lift it. Yeah, I'm running a personal budget to justify buying the full kit: http://universalcarlifts.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_46&products_id=46 I called them up and grilled them about it. To the rep's credit, he definitely knew the product without having to look anything up. He admitted that the reman spindles they started with usually had bad ball joints that needed to be replaced. My main concern would be strength/appropriateness for rallyx. I think this is the kit running on normal wheels:  Big question is how much you can upsize the tires from there. As Powershift pointed out, the wheelwells become the limiting factor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Big question is how much you can upsize the tires from there. As Powershift pointed out, the wheelwells become the limiting factor. Already addressed: NitroSpazzz posted:Chop fenders, bolt on flares, lift it. How big can you go on the tires before they hit its acceleration to the point that you need to change the rear end ratio?
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
How much less offset would you need to clear that ball joint? If you went to a lower offset and narrow tire it might all fit, although getting your alignment to ideal would probably negate all that. Those are already huge tires so I would probably just stick with that size. For tsd/road rallies going taller is just going to make the car handle worse and probably not give you much benefit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
jamal posted:How much less offset would you need to clear that ball joint? If you went to a lower offset and narrow tire it might all fit, although getting your alignment to ideal would probably negate all that. My guess is more than an inch. I'd have to get new wheels, yeah? I absolutely acknowledge that the car will handle worse in anything but the softest stuff, and probably won't handle great there without lots of experimentation with shocks and springs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Different wheels or a big spacer, I don't think that would work well though. Even on soft snow and slippery stuff making the car taller will probably worsen the handling. So why do that on a car that is going to be driven somewhat fast on windy roads? Good tires, good alignment, maybe new shocks, skid plate? I'm kind of curious about the tire thing. Guy at Firestone claimed a ws-80 would have more grip than a studded winterforce, and some of the tirerack ice rink tests seem to indicate the samw. jamal fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
the charger bolt pattern is 5x115, which is so close to 5 on 4.5 which is 114.3, that a lot of guys have had no problems running them, they're readily available in an medium offset which would clear the a-arm, but very rarely in both medium offset and 18 inch to clear your cop brakes. Spacers could also get you outside the a-arm bolt. Either way, you would have to cut away a lot of the front fender to be able to turn, and even then what do you do for the back? Also, fix the cigarette lighter
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
All this lift talk is neat and the car will look great but if you're seriously focused on winning the stock RWD season at Rallycross this year then I think you might be wise to get a skid plate sooner rather than later. Your lift modifications as I'm sure you know will kick you out of the stock RWD class. People aren't super sticklers about the classing but cutting your fenders or lifting the car would probably be a bit too noticeable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Extra posted:All this lift talk is neat and the car will look great but if you're seriously focused on winning the stock RWD season at Rallycross this year then I think you might be wise to get a skid plate sooner rather than later. Your lift modifications as I'm sure you know will kick you out of the stock RWD class. People aren't super sticklers about the classing but cutting your fenders or lifting the car would probably be a bit too noticeable. Yup -- my plan was to run enough of the season to clinch Stock RWD and then run in Modified 2 for the remainder. I'm not bragging about being good -- in half the events, there was not another Stock RWD entrant. I haven't found any of the tracks around here that bad for rocks, except for the dog racing parking lot. I know I took some big hits in the P71, but nothing fatal. I know a real rally car isn't really lifted; Team O'Neil showed Jalopnik this chart for how to tune your suspension based on anticipated terrain:  Which is both really neat and shows that I don't have a clue how to change the car to actually make it go faster. The AWD Charger springs would work for the back, but the front suspension is all different. I haven't found a lot of info about how much lift if any I can get out of coilovers for the LX platform. So now I'm thinking maybe just 1" rubber spacers in the interim and think long and hard about what to do for lifting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2016 23:49
|
|
|
There is probably something in the eibach catalog that would work for the front, possibly in conjunction with a cheap threaded sleeve kit. Do you know if the front spring perches sit on a snap ring groove? The bilsteins do but it is unclear if they come with a perch or you use the stock one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:
It is a bit weird, although I like to think it represents good taste winning out over brand loyalty, even when those brands line up sometimes That looks like an awesome beater.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 04:25
|
|
|
jamal posted:Do you know if the front spring perches sit on a snap ring groove? No idea -- do these say anything one way or the other?: http://bcracingcoilovers.com/products/bc-racing-br-series-coilover-kit-for-06-09-dodge-charger-srt-8 Is it possible to measure a spring/strut in the car to figure out its application height? I haven't been able to find the spring rates or anything about the stock suspension.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 04:42
|
|
|
That is a complete threaded coilover replacement that also happens to be garbage. The stock struts will either have a perch welded on, or a snap ring groove and a perch that just slides on. It is probably welded, but if not that might make it slightly easier to raise the car.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 06:27
|
|
|
I would get even KW Variant 1s if I knew they could raise the car. I'll do some searching tomorrow to see if someone's done a swap with pictures.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 06:33
|
|
|
KW gives the max height adjustment as a hub center to fender distance of 400mm/15.7" front and 410mm/16.1" rear. If that is taller than what you have now, there's your answer. I believe the shock housings might be made slightly shorter, so it is likely that max number is lower than where you are now. It's relatively easy to make the car taller or lower with springs or spacers but there is actually only a narrow range where things will actually work due to the shock. So say for example you put in spacers and lift the car an inch but are on stock struts. That's an inch of droop you have lost, and you are probably not getting the full amount of bump anymore, so overall the car has less travel. Which is worse for everything. jamal fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jan 15, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 07:04
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:[horrifying interior pictures] Good grief, the interior on that thing is absolutely horrific. I'd heard horror stories about Chrysler interiors, but that is just awful.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
jamal posted:That's an inch of droop you have lost, and you are probably not getting the full amount of bump anymore, so overall the car has less travel. Which is worse for everything. Ooh, didn't think of that, that a spacer is simply forcing the suspension further down its articulation, with no compensation for effective compression range. I got the Takata recall done today, which makes me feel like I can proceed with putting more money into the car. Ordered the studless snow tires and will get them installed next week. charliemonster42 posted:Good grief, the interior on that thing is absolutely horrific. I'd heard horror stories about Chrysler interiors, but that is just awful. Speaking of large, I've got a lot of space between me and the door. The seat has 8-way power adjustment but no side support. I'll look into making a foam pad a la Angel Pads so I can brace myself better. Not that you pull a lot of Gs in rallyx, but it's easier to drive when you're centered to the wheel. You definitely get bucked around more than on track. I keep finding scent trees tucked into different areas of the car. I actually like the smell of Black Ice (Blue Ice?), but I have to get rid of all the existing ones first. Air Sponges are on their way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 18:10
|
|
|
It's a stripper police model, it doesn't have the luxurious appointments of the civilian models. They suck too
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
Blech, these fat wings on the same year RT's seats: They did the same thing on the SRT4 seats, where the flat back was really narrow. I don't have broad shoulders, but I was always having to shrug just to sink back into the seat. The power seat that comes with the interceptor package has pretty adjustment range. I've got it fully lowered with the back very vertical. When the seat is fully raised, it does feel like you're driving a truck or van.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
Actually, if you just put a spacer between the top hat and body that would work as long as it isn't huge. And then just use the awd rear springs. You might need to have that made though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 19:08
|
|
|
Anyone know of a consensus best LX forum? I'm looking at the suspension subforum of LXForums, and the 5th newest post is from half a year ago.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
I haven't found a good one yet but if I need info I usually just forums search charger forums lxforums custom magnums btw you should absolutely upgrade all the front end bushings to poly the rubber stuff just won't last had brand new tension struts put in under warranty blew them out in 3 months of daily driving and autocross been going with white line stuff it's been holding up. I got the srt8 bilsteins on mine and they have been holding up to my abuse for 2 years now I'd recommend them. And nthing the skid plate I can see the subframe getting caught on everything in a rally cross.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Ooh, didn't think of that, that a spacer is simply forcing the suspension further down its articulation, with no compensation for effective compression range. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
Skid plate ordered, Stafford Springs 2/20-21 back to back event registered. I hope the plate comes in time. The only other things I might work on between now and then are replacing the weakening battery and maybe fixing the squeaking tensioner. I can't find my old posts about running the P71. I really want to compare the dynamics of the two cars. Wouldn't be fair, though, with the P71 on balding all-seasons because I was so cheap with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 21:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:28 |
|
|
Stafford Springs, eh? I'll have to come watch.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2016 21:51
|
|