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  • Locked thread
FluxFaun
Apr 7, 2010




Lovecraft is a bit of an acquired taste- his writing style is very dry and there are a few questionable things (racism mostly) in the books. But if you'd like to get into them, I suggest looking up his short stories first, and then the Call of Cthulhu. I like his short stories the best, personally.

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Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



I am now really curious where that tunnel with the pickaxe leads. But I suppose we're going to find out next episode.

azren
Feb 13, 2011




Sociopastry posted:

Lovecraft is a bit of an acquired taste- his writing style is very dry and there are a few questionable things (racism mostly) in the books. But if you'd like to get into them, I suggest looking up his short stories first, and then the Call of Cthulhu. I like his short stories the best, personally.

Warning: Incoming
My favorite is, by far, At the Mountains of Madness. Yeah, it's pretty long, but I just love it. Really, I tend to like his longer ones better. On the shorter end, Whisperer in Darkness is (relatively) short, and pretty good. My first was The Statement (Testimony?) of Randolph Carter; not his best, but it holds a special place in my heart. The Colo(u)r out of Space, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, and The Shadow out of Time are also novellas I really like. And, of course, Call of Cthulhu.

But for people who don't like Lovecraft's style, I always recommend The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. It's very different in style and tone; since it takes place in the Dreamlands, there are some wonderful, fantastic things, as well as his usual dark/disturbing/vicious things.
(I highly recommend checking out the HP Lovecraft Historical Society at https://www.cthulhulives.org for some neat stuff; they have radio shows they've made for several of his works, and a brilliant silent film of The Call of Cthulhu.)
(end )

On topic, I suspect A, C, D, B, E for the order. Dad (whose name I've already forgotten) and Missy come in. Dad helps (locks?) Missy into the elevator- I can't tell if it had a way it could go further up, or not. Then, to save Ethan from Missy, he lowers Missy into the water. Being a relatively sane person (it seems from what we've seen), he has an attack of conscience, and tries to saver her with the pickaxe (as he has already "lost" the key, to trap Missy), leading to the damaged lock. Then he either a) finds Missy to already be dead, or b) changes his mind again. He sends her back down to a)hide her body, or b) finish her off. He walks off, and buries the pick into the cave wall, either in grief, guilt, or anger.
Just a guess.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011



Thanks for the recommendations! That makes it easier to pick a book from his, pretty large, bibliography.

Dad's name is easy to forget; Dale sounds a lot like Dad, and I also almost always just call him Dad. Anyway, just gotta get youtube to process stuff while I go cooking, and then I'll have the next part up somewhere in the hour.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!

Fun Shoe

I just want to say that you are a good LPer Fleve, and the games you play are always interesting.

JamieTheD
Nov 4, 2011

LPer, Reviewer, Mad Welshman

(Yes, that's a self portrait)

Ooh, that reminds me, there is a film adaptation of The Colour Out of Space, masterfully done, on Steam. Die Farbe. Alas, due to Germany copyright restrictions, it is not available for Steam users of... er... The country it came from, but it is well worth a watch, as it does its own thing while sticking to most of the original story.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011





Thereís a jump-scare in here, but Iím terrible at acting scared, so I didnít.

To be honest, the first time you get down there and hear and see something threatening move around, after all the time of building up tension, you freak the gently caress out. But once youíve experienced it, youíre automatically a whole lot more blasť about the whole thing and you canít really go back to not-knowing. Itís kind of like the FedEx arrow, or how you dread a rollercoaster before, but never after the first few spins.

Solving the death of Missy gets us the achievement Anger. The other puzzle just gives a descriptive achievement, "The Curse of the Sea-Thing. The Cursed World".


Stories, Texts, and Articles



He is not dead but eternal lie.
The god of strange aeons cannot die.
We open the gate, the gate of old.
Its guardian eyes have long grown cold.
The name of our god: our truth, our key.
He is that which is, which should not be.




ďTHE CURSE OF THE SEA-THINGĒ
The Enochian Necronomicon! The iron-ore miners had finally found it! But not all of them wanted to perform its ritual and summon the sea-thing Gnaiih. One miner realized the ritual would unleash Gnaiihís flood upon this world. And so the miner had no choice but to stab the others with shards of magick Eltdown. Gnaiih, in response, cursed the miner, who now wanders the mine, doomed to prevent others from summoning the sea-thing and flooding the world forever.




UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
Re: REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION

Dear Mr. Carter,

The United States Patent and Trademark Office has received your January 27, 1973, letter requesting ďfurther explanationĒ as to why your recently submitted patent 527F2d was rejected by this office. As we explained in our previous letter, the patent was rejected for infringing upon a previously existing patent.

We have on record from you more than four dozen requested patents submitted in the last sixteen months. None has been successful, and all have been met with challenges by you. Mr. Carter, we would like to consider this matter, and future matters, administratively closed.

Sincerely,
James Maki
Administrative Director




Dale: GET YOUR poo poo OUT OF OUR BASEMENT. BRING IT TO THE GODDAMN DUMP. I am so sick of stepping over your lifetime of failure on my way to the washing machine. Iím not kidding. Either you move it or I burn it. - - M

JamieTheD
Nov 4, 2011

LPer, Reviewer, Mad Welshman

(Yes, that's a self portrait)

Ah, those would be the Enochian Alphabet, created by John Dee in the 1600s, although angelic inspiration was claimed, and he preferred not to call it "Enochian", instead "The Celestial Language" or the like. In essence, it was meant to be the language of Creation, kind of like the C++ of the Universe, and communicating it, as in DnD's Draconic, is meant to reshape reality (And, helpfully, talk to angels), although part of the language's key (the 49th) is not meant to be used. It's a complex tradition, not helped by the fact the language appears almost glossolalic in places, and is most likely a constructed language; Also that the original documentation is fragmentary.

However, it is an amusing reference, because, just as the Necronomicon is being named here for False Authenticity in the story, so too did Lovecraft use some of Dee's work to add a touch of it in his own works.

Finally, there's the patent system. Ohhh, boy, nowadays, you can quickly look up/request patents over the interwubs. But back in the 70s? Good luck on working out beforehand what was patent infringing or not, especially if you lived out of the way! Poor Dale... His story's pretty typical for many wannabe inventors of the time, but it's no less heartbreaking for it.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

This is really the annoying part of the game. I'm not good at getting scared either so once you figure out the trick, running the maze looking for bodies is just tedious. That vision at the end is so much worth it though.
Ethan sure is running out of family members fast.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!

Fun Shoe

anilEhilated posted:

Ethan sure is running out of family members fast.

Next thing you know and it's Ethan who was the real monster all along

Crane Fist
Jun 5, 2012

Flowers grow best
on top of mass graves

c o m e
and
s e e


If you're going to read Lovecraft you can read the Rats in the Walls, the Colour out of Space, the Dunwich Horror and then if you're feeling ambitious read At the Mountains of Madness or otherwise just stop there

This update feels like kind of a misstep on the game's part? Like they suddenly remembered it was supposed to be a horror game, whereas before it was working a lot better when instead of being trying to be frightening it was just incredibly melancholy

Thesaya
May 17, 2011

I am a Plant.


azren posted:

Warning: Incoming
My favorite is, by far, At the Mountains of Madness. Yeah, it's pretty long, but I just love it. Really, I tend to like his longer ones better. On the shorter end, Whisperer in Darkness is (relatively) short, and pretty good. My first was The Statement (Testimony?) of Randolph Carter; not his best, but it holds a special place in my heart. The Colo(u)r out of Space, The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, and The Shadow out of Time are also novellas I really like. And, of course, Call of Cthulhu.

But for people who don't like Lovecraft's style, I always recommend The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. It's very different in style and tone; since it takes place in the Dreamlands, there are some wonderful, fantastic things, as well as his usual dark/disturbing/vicious things.
(I highly recommend checking out the HP Lovecraft Historical Society at https://www.cthulhulives.org for some neat stuff; they have radio shows they've made for several of his works, and a brilliant silent film of The Call of Cthulhu.)
(end )

On topic, I suspect A, C, D, B, E for the order. Dad (whose name I've already forgotten) and Missy come in. Dad helps (locks?) Missy into the elevator- I can't tell if it had a way it could go further up, or not. Then, to save Ethan from Missy, he lowers Missy into the water. Being a relatively sane person (it seems from what we've seen), he has an attack of conscience, and tries to saver her with the pickaxe (as he has already "lost" the key, to trap Missy), leading to the damaged lock. Then he either a) finds Missy to already be dead, or b) changes his mind again. He sends her back down to a)hide her body, or b) finish her off. He walks off, and buries the pick into the cave wall, either in grief, guilt, or anger.
Just a guess.

At the Mountains of Madness is my personal favourite of Lovecraft's stories. I would recommend "Shadow over Innsmouth" as the first story to read though, since it i a good introduction to Lovecraft's universe.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

My favorite is The Outsider but it's got a)an incredibly predictable punchline and b)literally nothing to do with the rest of his mythos. Still a cute story.

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

it's the journey
not the destination
as we know


One of my favorites of his "collaborations" (usually meaning he re-wrote someone else's story almost completely) is "In the Walls of Eryx," a sf horror story set on Venus. Unlike anything else he wrote.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011



anilEhilated posted:

This is really the annoying part of the game. I'm not good at getting scared either so once you figure out the trick, running the maze looking for bodies is just tedious. That vision at the end is so much worth it though.
Ethan sure is running out of family members fast.

Crane Fist posted:

This update feels like kind of a misstep on the game's part? Like they suddenly remembered it was supposed to be a horror game, whereas before it was working a lot better when instead of being trying to be frightening it was just incredibly melancholy

Yeah, that part couldíve been handled better. The miner quickly turns from a horror into a traffic warden who tells you that, no Sir, canít go down this tunnel right now, please, turn around. In earlier versions it used to be even worse, the miner spawned a lot more often. And the whole area being a maze doesnít improve things either.

Luckily it's the only section of its kind. Next part I'll probably already finish the game. There are a few more puzzles to come, but asking the thread to solve them would be asking to point out the obvious, they're too simple.

JamieTheD posted:

Ah, those would be the Enochian Alphabet, created by John Dee in the 1600s, (...)

Do you mind if I include your posts in quotes once I ask baldurk to archive the thread on lparchive.org? I feel like a lot of people, myself included, probably suspect the game based all of its materials on something, but then never got around to actually looking everything up. Finding out there was so much behind the scenes is pretty neat.

JamieTheD
Nov 4, 2011

LPer, Reviewer, Mad Welshman

(Yes, that's a self portrait)

Fleve posted:

Do you mind if I include your posts in quotes once I ask baldurk to archive the thread on lparchive.org? I feel like a lot of people, myself included, probably suspect the game based all of its materials on something, but then never got around to actually looking everything up. Finding out there was so much behind the scenes is pretty neat.

Got no problems with that, although be aware that 95% of this is off the cuff remembrance, fact checked. Occult studies, much like theology, is a huuuuge subject, as has been noted, and trying to even start explaining, say, Enochian magic (Horribly complex in and of itself) or the difference between various flavours of Chaotes (Chaos Magicians) is kinda tough. Although here's another helpful one for ya... Runes and Sigils.

Essentially, the core difference is that Runes and Sigils are two oft misused words. We think of "Elvish Runes", for example, when, in fact, because Elvish in fantasy is almost always a curvilinear script (It's got lots of curves, yo), it can't possibly be a runic script. Runic script, specifically, belongs to certain germanic language groups: Futhark, Anglo-Saxon Runes, Marcommanic, Younger Futhark (Futhark, but more curves), Medieval (An expansion of Younger Futhark), and Dalecarlian runes. Technically, you could argue that Ogham (an Irish alphabet, generally carved on stone or wood, and spread to Wales via cultural exchange) is a runic alphabet, but it is not, strictly speaking, Runes (Which is purely Scandinavian/Anglo-Saxon.)

Sigils, meanwhile, were traditionally only connected to spirit entities in occultism, as identifiers of the entities. We've seen a couple (That of Focalor and Klepoth), and there doesn't appear to be much rhyme or reason behind why they look like they do, as far as I'm aware. In modern occultism, however, there is a second definition of Sigil: The kind used by Chaotes (See, it links in!). There are quite a few ways to make these, but the general idea is that the Chaote is focusing their will while creating a pattern based on the desire (The methods to do this vary, but a common one is to write the desired outcome, remove duplicated letters, and make your sigil out of the letters that remain), then leaving the pattern somewhere it can be seen (Taking a little bit of energy from anyone who perceives it to power the magic), and putting it out of your mind (Apparently, forgetting you made it is considered an important step, a sort of occult "Getting out the way to let the workers do their thing.")

Anyways, if I'm still around, have internet, and am relatively healthy by the end of the LP, I'll quite happily make an effort post... Just be aware that, at the time of writing, that doesn't seem terribly likely, considering how badly the crowdfunded garmes jurnalizm thing, writing, and life are going in general...

JamieTheD fucked around with this message at Jan 23, 2016 around 22:26

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



Hah, I didn't expect this game to go full Lovecraft.

Fleve posted:

To be honest, the first time you get down there and hear and see something threatening move around, after all the time of building up tension, you freak the gently caress out. But once youíve experienced it, youíre automatically a whole lot more blasť about the whole thing and you canít really go back to not-knowing. Itís kind of like the FedEx arrow, or how you dread a rollercoaster before, but never after the first few spins.

That's a rather bad comparison for me. I still "dread" - or more accurately, strongly dislike - the few rollercoasters I've been into and won't go into them again because any possibly enjoyable feelings are being completely overwhelmed by the awful, awful feeling of my stomach being pushed and pulled every which way. It's kinda annoying that some people refuse to understand that I actively loathe the feeling of a rollercoaster ride and that they keep going "just join us for one ride, once you get over the fear you'll love it." No. I. Won't. It can't be that hard to understand.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011





And with that, weíve finished the game. There are some theories on how the ending can be interpreted, but Iíll wait for the discussion to open first. For now, let me just say that I appreciate the developersí approach to storytelling. I think they made a good decision when later on they said that ďwe swore to never tell what our own takes on the event at Red Creek Valley areĒ.

The achievements we've gained during this part are for solving Dadís death, titled Bargaining, and for solving Edís, Acceptance. Finishing the game gives another one, but thatís simply a quote, What happens then?. Finally, while looking through the credits I saw something credited as a prequel comic. Turns out they still have that online. Itís a neat little thing. Also, I didnít record the credits at the end, but hereís the song that only plays during them.


Stories, Texts, and Articles


I am not myself. Have not been myself. Voices again today. Same as yesterday. This is most vexsome.


I tried to brick her up in the wall, but she fough me. In the end, I couldnít do it. Not to my wife. Neither she nor the Sleeper is pleased. Now I must decide whom I fear more.


What I must do is clear to me now. The Sleeper resides in a prison of death, and pain is the key.

Thesaya
May 17, 2011

I am a Plant.


I am a bit annoyed by the "peaceful" pose Ed is in. Even if he started out sitting like that, fire dries the body out and bends all your limbs at the joints, meaning that he would have been pulled into himself and probably would have fallen onto his side.

Anyway, this was a nice game although very short and honestly had a somewhat unsatisfying conclusion. I expected there to be much more to it.

JamieTheD
Nov 4, 2011

LPer, Reviewer, Mad Welshman

(Yes, that's a self portrait)

*Laughs* Well, I did promise... Expect an effortpost in a day or two, once people have a chance to discuss the game a lil' , so my discussion doesn't seem so spoilery. Pretty sure my internet's gonna at least last that long.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Text below contains a fuckton of spoilers. Go watch the last video.

Okay, let's start it simply: The Twist. Everyone seems to hate The Twist. I blame the game's atmosphere being too good at suggesting there's Lovecraftiana involved.
I still think there's horror involved even if you know what the deal is. You're literally walking through a kid's mind as he writes his escapist fantasies in which horrible revenge is exacted on those who slighted him. "I'll run away and you'll regret I was not here because the horrible place will murder you all without me!" is a pretty realistic sentiment - kids are horrible like that. I know I was. And those memories are scary.

The (to me, at least) interesting question is how much of what Paul sees is real and how much is Ethan's mind. The newsclippings seem real enough especially when you can tie them up to the events Ethan turned into stories: the satellite, the fire. There's also that one (heartbreaking in retrospect) note from Ethan's mother. But we're a story walking through stories - while these serves as a clue (as do the achievements - back when I played this, that's actually how I guessed the whole "it's in his mind as he processes trauma" twist beforehand. Hell, another clue is in the name of the game (I think - a native English speaker will probably correct me) - vanishing implies repeated occurrence in short bursts, as opposed to disappearance. Ethan vanishes for a while and writes a story.

This is why the Prospero name is so well chosen - he's a wise magician who restores the proper order of things. And Paul, to whom the truth is revealed despite being a persecutor (adult) - the only one who sees all the stories and the only one who spreads the word of them (to the player); who is the only apostle of a little dying god.

There's obviously mcuh more symbolism involved but here's a bit I never really managed to fit in: ravens. One is the logo of the game and the password - possibly Ethan's nickname for himself? - is Corvus; it all seems rather random, though.

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare


anilEhilated posted:

There's obviously mcuh more symbolism involved but here's a bit I never really managed to fit in: ravens. One is the logo of the game and the password - possibly Ethan's nickname for himself? - is Corvus; it all seems rather random, though.

The are also ravens hanging from the ceiling in the potion room and the ritual dagger has a handle shaped like a crow, and of course there's the spot where someone harvested the blood from a whole bunch of them, the crow lighters, etc.

The only thing I can think of is that ravens are generally considered a portent of death in a lot of European cultures. In Norse myth they are Odin's messengers and symbolize knowledge and prophecy, something they share with the Celts, but that doesn't seem relevant. If we want to stick with the Prospero - Tempest - Shakespeare connection, Shakespeare tended to write ravens into his play whenever he wanted to forebode something bad about to happen. In The Tempest, Caliban's mother is called Sycorax, which brings to mind corvus corax. Caliban makes reference to them at one point, but it's hardly significant:

Caliban, The Tempest posted:

As wicked dew as e'er my mother brushed
With ravenís feather from unwholesome fen
Drop on you both! A southwest blow on ye
And blister you all o'er!

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




anilEhilated posted:

There's obviously mcuh more symbolism involved but here's a bit I never really managed to fit in: ravens. One is the logo of the game and the password - possibly Ethan's nickname for himself? - is Corvus; it all seems rather random, though.

Chi Rho, the first two letters of Christ in greek used to be superimposed ☧. You notice the Labarum on some of the tombstones where the stone crow was found also have the symbol. Saying Chi Rho really fast sounds like crow.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011



I have mixed feelings about the ending, but mostly positive. I was a bit miffed the first time I finished it, but the second time around it grew on me.

Part of the problem of having a story that ends with a twist is that it runs the risk of cheapening everything that preceded it, making it feel like it didnít matter. And thatís true to a degree. Speculating about a lumbering Lovecraftian evil that causes all the killing seems in vain when you realize that itís all Ďjustí stories. Ignoring the question what is and isnít a story, I think itís still fun to speculate about them on their own, as well as how they make sense together, even if from a fictional perspective.

And for what is lost, weíve also gained. At the end weíve come to learn a surprising amount about the Carter family solely from Ethanís stories and a handful of background articles. Replaying the game, you re-evaluate the scenes. The stories turn into little studies of characters and their relationships. Grandpa who feels guilty for his dead wife, drinking in the forest, but who also ends up accepting death as a part of life in Ethanís story. Dale, who probably feels akin to Ethan with his failed patents, but is too timid to stand up to his wife, or to Chad, or Travis. Even in Ethanís stories, under the influence of the ĎSleeperí, the characters act true to themselves; albeit often grotesquely and exaggerated, like in a play set on a stage.

Doing a story with a twist is a difficult thing and Iím impressed with how they managed to work in little hints without telegraphing the end (too much). Like how you begin the game going from a dark tunnel towards the light. Or how the clocks are all set to 7 or 7:04 and time never seems to move. For more things like that, thereís a Russian (?) guy who made a huge effort blog post, analyzing all the different layers of the story. Itís a thorough and interesting write-up, but also a bit dissecting.

One of the developers wrote a response to the criticism that the ending was simple or clichť, a week or so after they had released the game. I feel he makes a fair point when he says that the game isnít really about the twist. But then whatís it about? At first glance, it seems lazy to say that Ďitís about whatever you make out of ití. Perhaps itís about Ethan dying. Perhaps itís about stories, and even the Ďrealí ending we see is part of another story. A non-ending, you might say, the refuge of a writer who doesnít know how to end his story. But on the other hand, whereís the fun in knowing? Thereís value in mystery. The game is a web of possibilities. Singling out one interpretation, you kill all the others, like gluing a kaleidoscope into place.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



I'm gonna copy a little bit from that blog post, because it confused me during the LP.

quote:

1) Mother kills the uncle;
2) Father kills the mother;
3) Father kills himself not be killed by Ethanís brother;
4) Grandfather kills the brother;
5) Grandfather dies by accepting his fate (didnít fight against fire).

In other words, we found 4 first, and then the others in chronological order.

EagerSleeper
Feb 3, 2010

by R. Guyovich


I'm only on a mobile so I might not write as much as I want to on the topic of the ending, but after some thinking, I think the story (or at least one facet of it) is about Ethan, in his slowly dying dream, trying to stop himself from ever getting involved in that one room in the abandoned mansion. Hindsight is 20/20, and getting involved with that room eventually led to Bad Stuff for him. So in essence, Dream Ethan is trying to destroy that room in anger/regret at his fate in the real world. The Dream Family is trying to kill/stop him just because Ethan had issues with family though.

There are probably better ways to interpret this story, and I'd love to find out more. I do want to find out what the hell the Vandergrifs had to do with this story. I'm not usually a fan of twist endings or dying dream stories, but discussing the plot helps me feel less salty (and sad for Ethan ).

Mr. Highway
Feb 25, 2007

I'm a very lonely man, doing what I can.

The ending was okay. It works well to raise awareness about proper lamp handling.

The twist did not make me feel one way or another. I think there are two contradictory ways to view it. One) The twist cheapens the rest of he story, especially setting up the idea of the supernatural. One problem twists bring to the surface is that, by virtue of being a twist, they threatened the importance of the preceding story. This is not true in all cases, but is a worry. This game from the start establishes the idea of the supernatural. Paul Prospero is a supernatural detective. Ethan Carter vanished under "supernatural." We, however, need to explore the rules of the supernatural. At no point should the player ever question the psychic visions of the murders or Ethan's stories coming to life. After all, Paul Prospero, as a psychic, experiences visions. As a psychic, he can link into the spirit of a place or object, including the mental/psychic traces left by Ethan in a story. To undermine this establishment, the twist shows that Paul is just another story in a short list of stories. He explores the stories because he is a story, and, somehow, the player should realize this with no to little clues. The clocks saying 7:04; just another product of being a psychic; just another product of the overarching supernatural presence. Plus, viewers of any media may be upset with the idea that the story they experienced doesn't really matter.

Two) The twist elucidates. Once the story establishes the supernatural, we must wonder how much of the supernatural is actually supernatural. Paul views the first murder, which introduces supernatural names but also demonstrates a realism. Man is hit in the head. Man has legs removed. At no point does the supernatural kill the man. Soon, the game introduces overly complicated set pieces. With the ravens statues that spar and light a fire along the wall of a crypt, the player might begin to realize that the game is not as realistic as once thought. The supernatural elements build and build the more Paul explores, just like what would happen in a story Ethan, established budding writer, would have read. His escapism story about the spacecraft with the fact that his ship matches the ship on the magazine cover reveals that Ethan tries to continue others' fiction with his own. With all this, the player reaches the twist and realizes that supernatural elements in a game, whose graphics and setting are trying to simulate reality, might actually be out of place.

Lastly, Prospero is a bad reference because Prospero is the villain of The Tempest. I could talk more about the idea of referencing material and missing important parts of the reference material, but I don't feel like it at the moment.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Mr. Highway posted:

Lastly, Prospero is a bad reference because Prospero is the villain of The Tempest. I could talk more about the idea of referencing material and missing important parts of the reference material, but I don't feel like it at the moment.
This is what I've been originally talking about when I mentioned I'm not sure how far the writer thought of this reference - with the caveat of the writer being Ethan. And I feel that for him, it makes sense to consider Prospero to be a good guy: he's a revenge power fantasy. At the same time, Shakespeare's Prospero learns forgiveness and that's something absent from Ethan's murderous fantasies, something Ethan may realize only in his last moments, and that's the nature of the comfort Paul brings him.

I guess what I'm saying is that the incomplete reference can quite possibly be intentional and a kid would probably view Prospero as the guy who gets poo poo done and justice restored without looking at his methods too much.

Mr. Highway
Feb 25, 2007

I'm a very lonely man, doing what I can.

Yeah, I think references allow viewers to connect to a piece on a meta-narrative level, but I also think they show the creator's limitation. I'm fine with Prospero just being a reference because the developers like the play or if Ethan, as a character, enjoyed the play. When the reference becomes a main part of the story or characterization, where analysis is required to enjoy the full experience, the door opens to counter-analysis. Ethan carter may have read The Tempest as an escape fantasy; he may have also been too young and too ineloquent to understand the play. Overall, I don't like it when references are essential.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Actually, it's entirely possible to read Prospero as a good guy, especially if you're reading the play because he ends up as just and his means justified (and his main bit character development, learning mercy, isn't really emphasised in text). It really takes seeing the play with an actor being properly scary and pompous to realize he's not just wrecking ships and enslaving creatures in good fun.

Mr. Highway
Feb 25, 2007

I'm a very lonely man, doing what I can.

If this is in response to my "too young and too ineloquent" comment: I agree, and there's nothing wrong with that interpretation. I just meant to the say that Ethan might be "too ineloquent" in that, for being rather well-read, which is debatable, his stories don't show a real depth of thought. He may have read Shakespeare, but that doesn't mean he took anything other than a surface glance. He may have just thought the name sounded cool. Of course, with all this talk of Ethan, we should remember that it wasn't Ethan who came up with the name "Paul Prospero" but the developers.

If this wasn't in response: I still agree. Watching a play offers much interpretations to reading it.

Herr Zwiebel
Apr 25, 2009

Worry Not,
Wonder Not.


Grimey Drawer

Fleve, it's driving me crazy. I can't place your accent. Are you Austrian?

Also, I am really enjoying your LP. Thanks!

Dooky Dingo
Feb 17, 2011

Gym badge day is a VERY dangerous day!


Herr Zwiebel posted:

Fleve, it's driving me crazy. I can't place your accent. Are you Austrian?

Wrong, he's actually Patrick Stewart doing LP's in his free time.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011



It was all part of my sly plan to reinvigorate the young generations' love for Shakespeare. Moonlight as an LP'er and then sneakily play games tangentially related to The Tempest, MacBeth, etc. Perhaps, in time, I'll manage to even fork in the Henry's somehow. To preserve my public image I have taken on the role of a half Dutch, half German fellow who used to live in Germany and then moved to the Netherlands. I've got this really huge background story for him too, it's far too elaborate. Sometimes I think I'm him.

It's fun. I have a slight Dutch accent in my German, a barely noticeable German accent in my Dutch, and something in between with my English. My old French teacher once told me I sounded like someone from Brittany in French and I'm still figuring out whether that was an insult or not.

-----
Anyway, I've been thinking about what to LP next. I thoroughly enjoyed Aarklash: Legacy, but the game is mostly real-time tactical combat with a pause function. Itís hella fun to play, but to watch? I donít know. Same with The Banner Saga, or Pillars of Eternity. I played the poo poo out of Pillars in the last weeks. Itís the best game I bought since a long time. But a full LP experience would involve a lot of reading, probably better suited for a SSLP. According to the LP master list there were a total of 5 Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines VLPís here, all of them ended up abandoned. What the hell? Then there's a few other ones that I thought would be fun, like Severance: Blade of Darkness, This War of Mine, or Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death.

Finally, Iíve been working on a narrative LP of The Long Dark, but goddamn, a decent narrative LP takes a ton of time to craft. Gameplay, script, acting; itís like a one-man show. No surprise not a lot of people are trying that kind of style.

divedivedive
Jun 6, 2011


Dooky Dingo posted:

Wrong, he's actually Patrick Stewart doing LP's in his free time.

Ha, I had that same thought. One of the videos Fleve said the word "area" and it sounded just exactly like Patrick Stewart.

Speaking as someone who never played this and new very little about it, I at least did not find the ending to be a letdown. I really enjoyed the path of the story and, odd as it may sound, am a little more interested in trying the game out myself now that I have seen this Let's Play. Really nice work.

gschmidl
Sep 3, 2011

it's the journey
not the destination
as we know


If you're taking votes, I'll pick Marlow Briggs or Banner Saga.

No Gravitas
Jun 12, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Do Vampire, maybe someone will finish it!

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

divedivedive posted:

Ha, I had that same thought. One of the videos Fleve said the word "area" and it sounded just exactly like Patrick Stewart.
One of his previous LPs (Revenant, I think, where it came up originally?) has Fleve doing a bunch of Stewart quotes. It's... memorable.

Anyhow, if you're taking votes, I'd repeat Severance the inexplicable cult classic or Marlow Briggs the best 1 euro game no one played. Vampire is great but I suspect most people know it by heart and from what I've seen of Banner Saga it seems pretty drat hard to make watchable videos.

I'm gonna say I never heard of the Aarklash game and it's sitting on my wishlist now, looks a bit like modern Icewind Dale and I've been itching for more of that ever since I beat Pillars.

Fleve
Nov 5, 2011



Well now, thatís pretty much a vote for everything I listed. Heck, Iíd take suggestions too. I always spend too much time looking for good games to LP.

anilEhilated posted:

Anyhow, if you're taking votes, I'd repeat Severance the inexplicable cult classic or Marlow Briggs the best 1 euro game no one played. Vampire is great but I suspect most people know it by heart and from what I've seen of Banner Saga it seems pretty drat hard to make watchable videos.

I'm gonna say I never heard of the Aarklash game and it's sitting on my wishlist now, looks a bit like modern Icewind Dale and I've been itching for more of that ever since I beat Pillars.

I think Iíll LP Marlow regardless of what other plans I make. It simply has to be LPíed and itís a pretty short game. I like short games.

Aarklash is good and worth getting when itīs on sale. It doesnīt have much of a story, the items are mostly unimaginative and randomized, and there are too many puzzles at the end; but drat the combat is great. Itís difficult but fair, lots of tactics involved. Everything else about it is passable, but for roughly 18 hours of amazing combat, I'm happy with what I paid for it. Summarizing it like that, though, it doesn't sound like it'd make a good LP anymore.

I'll probably decide on and start a new LP somewhere next week. I've got a Payday 2 video I've been itching to finish first and somehow those things are inexplicably popular.

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Grimey Drawer

Fleve posted:

Aarklash is good and worth getting when itīs on sale. It doesnīt have much of a story, the items are mostly unimaginative and randomized, and there are too many puzzles at the end; but drat the combat is great. Itís difficult but fair, lots of tactics involved. Everything else about it is passable, but for roughly 18 hours of amazing combat, I'm happy with what I paid for it. Summarizing it like that, though, it doesn't sound like it'd make a good LP anymore.
It really sounds like Icewind Dale. Definitely going to keep watch for that one.

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