A Caveman And A Psychic Walk Into A Bar: Let's Play Live A Live!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > A Caveman And A Psychic Walk Into A Bar: Let's Play Live A Live!

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EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Ohhhh man this game owns wicked hard. I'm a boring jerk so I vote for chronological order and default names.

Translation trivia: Aeon Genesis actually increased the character limit to allow for "Sundown" on The Sundown Kid, a much earlier version of the translation patch (possibly a different group's) had to settle for "Sunset" due to the original limit of six characters. :eng101:

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 16:38

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:21

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

�

Why are you wearing a live lizard as underwear? A lizard you apparently trained to attack people?!

Answered your own question. I mean, where else are you gonna keep your attack lizard? :rolleyes:

Seriously Zaki is easily one of the most :wtc:

things in a game chock-full of precisely those sorts of things.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2016 11:29

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Acne Rain posted:

Ah yes, this game's truly unique. I really like the idea of a bunch of microadventures for a jrpg.

If you like games like this, you could also try SaGa Frontier (it's flawed, but has a lot of neat ideas, and a lot of the game's cut content still has a great deal of evidence laying around for it, like fully-developed environments, which is a rare thing in video games and it's kind of an odd sensation, wandering through what's basically the ghost of an idea), Treasure of the Rudra (rather than an anthology, three closely-interwoven stories that play out simultaneously and can be jumped between freely), SaGa Frontier 2, or Phantasy Star III (generational games that jump between characters on a linear timeline), to name a few examples of games made up of multiple smaller adventures. I'm sure there's a ton of others I'm forgetting, but around the time of Live A Live, that sort of narrative style ended up in a lot of lesser-known titles, many of which never made it out of Japan. None quite as disparate in tone and setting as Live A Live, but they're all quite interesting in their own ways.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2016 06:16

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Leavemywife posted:

I think it's important to note that damage squares won't exclusively hurt enemies; if you walk into them, you'll take the damage as well. Some techniques will create more than one square, too, so if you're not careful, you can really gently caress yourself up. They'll also fade after a bit of time.

However, some enemies can absorb certain elements, which turn damage squares into healing squares. The amount involved isn't huge, but it's something, and can be quite annoying.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 03:23

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Leavemywife posted:

I think this effect can also be reversed, so if you need a quick pick-me-up and can make some squares that'll hurt them and heal you, you've got a small form of immortality.

I was thinking that mentioning that some equipment absorbs elements was a slight gameplay spoiler, but I guess it doesn't matter, since the knowledge is devoid of context. But, yeah, it can be useful in the right circumstances.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 07:05

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

Step Seven: Enjoy your new pet rock.

No, I don�t have any clue how you would know to do any of that without a guide.

Well, I have no idea how you're supposed to know about the stone face other than it being mildly suspicious and 100 being a nice, round number, but from that point, the rest of the secret, like much of Live A Live, is an extended film reference, in this case, to Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey. You're a protohuman looking at a monolith, pretty clear reference. So, naturally, you throw a bone in the air. Given its power to enhance intelligence and perform an unusual effect on-use, one can assume that the Basic Rock is, in fact, a piece of the Monolith (EDIT: In fact, if you watch carefully, you'll see that the Basic Rock's coloration is the same as the monolith).

Additionally, the Cola Bottle is another movie reference, this time to The Gods Must be Crazy, the most commercially successful film ever made in South Africa (this is literally true). It's a comedy about some guys from an isolated tribe of people in Botswana, who find a glass Coke bottle that's been thrown from an airplane and landed unbroken (those bottles were pretty thick). They immediately find it has a million and one uses for them, from starting fires to making music, and decide it was a gift from the gods. But, there's only the one, so it causes a lot of internal strife over who gets to use it, and ultimately they decide the gods must not have been thinking clearly when they sent the gift, and so the village leader heads off on an epic journey to dispose of the bottle off the edge of the world, having failed to get rid of it a few other ways. And that's just, like, the first twenty minutes, the rest is just watching the poor guy deal with western civilization in more or less all the ways you'd expect of a film made in South Africa in 1980. So, to summarize, that's why the Cola Bottle is some sort of nigh-omnipotent superweapon.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jan 21, 2016

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 15:06

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

AlphaKretin posted:

So does this game have the problem I have with a lot of chapter-based games where you spend most of it in the less fun early-to-mid-game?

No, for multiple reasons, none of which I can really discuss in-depth right now, but keep an eye on the LP, it'll be all the explanation you'll need. Well, I can at least say that low-level play isn't as unfun as some other games (SaGa Frontier definitely had an issue with slow start-up for each character's story...).

# ¿ Jan 21, 2016 15:53

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

Now I'm torn about whether to edit this into the update, or have one of those big collections of good thread posts at the end of this for archiving.

Believe me, this is only the beginning. Live A Live is basically "Squaresoft's dev team really loves movies" The Game. There's a couple chapters that will necessitate an actual goddamn list of all the references (some obvious, some more subtle), which I look forward to pointing out.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2016 02:29

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

If I'm tallying these votes up right, Convergence has 5 votes. Chronological actually only has 3 (and 1 anti-vote from Jeabus if I decide that's valid). And then it's Wrestler and Kungfu with the most votes after that.

Hmm, since it's a popular option, I'm going to say I change my vote to the "Convergence" option but urge everyone to join me in including the stipulation that the Mecha Chapter be done last. Just trust me on this one, it'll make sense later.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2016 17:06

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

I'm interested about why you'd make that stipulation. Well, work it out amongst yourselves. Scifi comes next.

Oh, just saw this is a "tag spoilers" thread rather than no-mention, so, anyone who hasn't played Live A Live, don't look: if you do Mecha too early, you lose some of the impact off the Watanabe subplot, because people won't be looking for the running gag only to find tragedy. That's why, ideally, I'd put off Cube's chapter until later, too, so the antenna situation is more clearly understood as the chapter's Watanabe, but in the latter case, it's not as important as a plot point, so I figure, no reason to ruin the fun of voting.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2016 00:21

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

EponymousMrYar posted:

The Original Alien and Isaac Asimov's I Robot are among the veritable plethora of film/sci-fi references in this chapter.

The references in the Sci-Fi chapter are easily the most blatant, but some of them will remain spoilers for the next few updates (though one of them kinda smacks you in the face all chapter long). Certainly nothing quite as obscure as The Gods Must be Crazy (though, as a point of minor interest, said film was namedropped on The Daily Show last week). You can sort of gather the dev team's taste in movies from how densely-packed the references are in a given chapter, and sci-fi is definitely one of the most packed (but not the most).

Also, yeah, it's amazing how Cube manages to be the most endearing character without speaking.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2016 16:32

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

The music in this chapter is handled a bit oddly, if I recall. Most of the time that there's any music at all, it's only the bassline of Unseen Syndrome. It's as quiet and sinister as the rest of the sounds on the ship.

That's one of the more subtly brilliant parts of Live A Live, is the clever way the music is often handled. They'll frequently use just part of the melody or mess with the pitch to economize the soundtrack, making it feel like there are more different pieces of music in the game.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2016 21:57

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Jesus Christ, I did not know that that sad music was pulled from Select-A-Live. :aaaaa:

Yeah, this game is definitely one of the best uses of a fairly modest amount of assets. Each chapter being so different, with mutually-exclusive assets, means the dev team has to do a lot with a little, and boy, do they ever pull it off. Also, I love how, whenever everyone addresses Cube, they're fairly apologetic that he's more or less come into being on the worst possible day. And then the game warms your heart when his immediate reaction (well, controlled by you) is to do the only helpful thing he's been shown how to do, and offers them coffee. He's basically the friendliest robot ever.

I also like how they don't pigeonhole Darth, that despite him being a hardass, you can kind of tell that he means well, and is just trying to do his job, while being somewhat critical of his orders (such as lamenting that the military probably wants to weaponize the Behemoth).

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 08:17

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

The music that plays after Huey passes on is a single layer from Cry-A-Live, the song that played when our caveman hero got exiled:

Okay, that makes more sense I guess. Still, that many tracks could be broken down into layers for stuff like this is brilliant. Thinking about it, though, I think Cube's chapter is one of the only ones to make much use of it, and it definitely gets the most mileage out of basically two tracks (Cry-A-Live and Unseen Syndrome). I don't even think the chapter uses anything else aside from the Captain Square music. I really wish I could see into the production of Live-A-Live, because different people were assigned to each chapter, with only a handful of shared staff (the composer, Yoko Shimomura, being one of them), and it seems like it would be fascinating to watch those guys' different approaches to their chapter, because they all manage to feel completely different, despite having been given the same tools to work with. My theory, is, well, the game came out in 1994, two years after the very first version of RPG Maker was released in Japan, so maybe they saw some of the early stuff being produced, and thought, "What if we made a compilation of small RPG-style games ourselves?"

Also, fun fact, the reason the "illustrator" for each chapter gets top billing is because they were each well-known manga artists, and did the characters' official artwork. Pogo's chapter was done by Yoshinori Kobayashi, best known for his political stances. Just, read the article, he's pretty much at maximum :can:

.

Cube's chapter is illustrated by Yumi Tamura, who works on shoujo manga, the only one of the illustrators to do so, and it kind of fits the chapter's mood. She's so little-known in the US that her work on Live-A-Live was considered significant enough to include on her Wikipedia page. She won an award in 1993, the year before Live-A-Live was made, for Basara, which made it stateside via Viz Media, for anyone interested in checking out her stuff that isn't this:

(And no, I have no idea what Cube is thinking there, something about Kato, but the writing is nearly illegible beyond that. Best guess for the characters is something about Cube and Kato being similar, referring either to them being alike in a sort of philosophical way, or in that Kato gave Cube a hat and glasses that match his. "Same" doesn't usually have the extra "n" character, but regional dialects, representation of accents, and so on, can mess around.)

Also, just for the record, as far as I know, the Sci-Fi chapter doesn't have any references that you guys haven't already caught. Note that "Resistance is futile" is a reference made entirely by the translators, it could not have been a reference to the Borg in the original Japanese, as the critically-acclaimed Japanese space opera, "Star Trek '88: Shin Uchuu Daisakusen", was first released on laser disc in 1995, with the Borg not appearing at all until 1996.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 15:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Unoriginal One posted:

Rather late, but there are a fair number of official remixes for Live A Live scattered around Square's compilation albums, both from the assorted SQs and the Yoko Shimomura collections.

Seeing as Caveman's out of the way...

KISS OF JEALOUSY - MEM�RIA!

KISS OF JEALOUSY (Karaoke) - MEM�RIA! For those who would rather go without vocals.

And, while I'm at it, a few samples of MEGALOMANIA, also from the same album.

MEGALOMANIA - MEM�RIA!

MEGALOMANIA (Karaoke) - MEM�RIA!

You wouldn't happen to have lyrics to those hidden around, would you? If you can provide the Japanese, I can probably get a decent translation going. Google has turned up exactly nothing.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 01:13

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Glazius posted:

Unlike humans, Cube doesn't know what it is to be afraid.

That might just see him through this.

My interpretation was always that Cube was influenced by that first scene with Kato, and his other early interactions with the crew. He decided that these people weren't bad, and he was built to help people, Kato especially, so, whether it's by making coffee, or staring down a Behemoth to save the ship, he just wants to help.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 05:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Pretty sure Wu Tang Secret can fit inside the name entry boxes, if you want to go that route. In order to fit the default name, you're given three boxes in the AG translation.

Anyway, I feel like the captain's evaluation is critical to understanding why OD-10 went haywire, the captain himself had given up on the crew, so it's only natural that the ship would eventually do so, as well. Keep in mind that Hol was dead the whole time, the computer had been planning it for a while. It's also the most :smith:

part of the chapter, a clear message that says that this all happened simply because none of the crew could connect with one another.

Of course, I love how Darth catapults to being the best character in the chapter by the end, revealing that he's really got a good heart beneath the gruff exterior. One thing I'd have liked is if the chapter had played up Captain Square a little more, maybe had your introduction to the game be scripted, and had a first phase to the OD-10 fight where Cube took on the digital persona of Captain Square, before being forced into his normal robot self empowered by HUMANISM (like, maybe he's Captain Square as he breaks through OD-10's defenses using the game, then the game breaks down and the whole "Kill you..." sequence plays out). Sure, it's sickeningly cliche to play the "robot is inspired by superhero, conceptualizes self as said superhero" card, but for Live-A-Live, it feels very appropriate.

Also, Eevee, I recall you're also able to track down Kato to talk to him during the final sequence before coffee. If you don't have a state left for it, I can transcribe it, I'm playing through the game again, myself, and I'm in the middle of Mecha, so once that's done I'll be passing through Cube's chapter, and I'm happy to jot down what the guy says (the visuals aren't much, just Kato laying in bed).

# ¿ Jan 31, 2016 01:32

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I always thought it was pretty neat that they point out explicitly that Cube wasn't really intended to do anything specific. Kato wasn't trying to make a worker bot for the ship, he was doing it as a labor of love, a hobby. Cube's purpose, as far as Kato was concerned, was just to exist, and be a new friend.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2016 02:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

One thing I just discovered, now going through the Sci-Fi chapter, is that if you beat Captain Square on the first try in the break room, the ending music will play in the break room during the couple lines of Kirk expressing his disbelief, before switching back as he shoves you aside to reclaim his high score. It's a nice touch, and it's the only time you can hear it with the same filter that the battle music gets during that scene.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2016 18:54

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Robindaybird posted:

I also can't help but think it's also partly the Captain's fault, or least the computer assumes so.

Hol gives up completely on the crew, and judging by how long it took for the crew to spot the impostor, they never really had any sort of rapport going on, so he's not providing any kind of leadership or conflict resolution given the messy break up/hook up and the lingering bad feelings.

So Mother computer assesses that Hol's the most destabilizing element, and gases him (given it's clear he was dead for at least a while before the events of the game), makes a sweep to see if it can do what Hol can't with the crew, and then decide to eliminate everyone.

I'd say the absolute latest that Hol could have been alive was the break room. Nobody seemed to think it unusual that he communicated via viewscreen from his quarters that are literally right across the hall, so one can assume he made a habit of staying in his room.

EDIT: Oh, hey, one thing that was overlooked, unless I just completely hosed up reading the LP, was that after inputting the password you can read Kirk's diary like everyone else's.

Kirk posted:

Personal Diary
Month X, Day X

The agenda for the upcoming motor show has been decided.

Once we get to Earth, I'm headed straight for Detroit.

But after that I need to think about my vacation schedule.

After all, I'll be alone with Rachel.

I have to work out a good plan.

Guy was Tom Paris years before Voyager.

EDIT2: Also, not sure how I didn't notice this, but Corporal Darth's yellow outfit and red beret are reminiscent of Rolento, one of the bosses from Final Fight, a game that Live-A-Live's composer, Yoko Shimomura, worked on when she worked for Capcom. Might be a coincidence, but it's interesting to consider that the team may have included a nod to the composer's work for an entirely different company.

EDIT3: Okay, last thing. Going to the terminal room when Darth calls leads to you finding him already inside. He says "So you came here too? I was thinking of a full frontal assault, myself. We don't have time to think about this!" (slightly paraphrased) When you leave the room, you get a short scene of the Behemoth stomping around just past the doorway to the north, before heading into that hall. Naturally, this encourages you to take the long way to the break room.

EDIT4: I lied, walking around without beelining for Captain Square prompts Darth to call and give you a hint, asking if you can find something unnecessary, but still somehow linked to the mother computer. It's a solid hint, giving you a clue without completely giving away the answer. Seriously this chapter has cases set up for everything.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Feb 1, 2016

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 02:17

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

Watch this for a few seconds.

I'm not sure that EclecticTastes shouldn't be the one running this LP. In all seriousness though, thanks for more cool bits of info. Of course Kirk would be the kind of guy to take part in a motor show.

Sorry! I don't mean to go stealing your thunder, I'm just a huge fan of this game and if I weren't much, much too lazy to do a SSLP, I very well may have done this one a while ago and also I wouldn't have thought to try out some of those edge cases if I weren't following the LP and thus deliberately looking for them just in case there's something to add.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 05:39

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Li Kuugo because she's great in every possible way.

So, Yoshihide Fujiwara isn't really much to speak of. He worked on the Virtua Fighter manga, and won an award from the same group as Yumi Tamura (the illustrator of Cube's chapter). This won't be the last time the Shogakukan awards will be coming up, though I believe this guy's is the oldest, being from 1984 (Tamura's was 1993). Only other interesting thing is he was the apprentice of Ryoichi Ikegami, who did a bunch of older manga and also Spider-Man: The Manga. Okay, I promise, regardless of which chapter comes next after this, the artist will be actually interesting.

Also, there's only one reference I can clearly identify, and it might be a slight stretch, but there's too many hints to ignore. The cast for this chapter, I believe, is a light allegory to the characters from Journey to the West, one of the most significant works of East Asian literature. I'll be using their Japanese names*, as there are some connections there, as well. Li Kuugo is boastful, impulsive, agile, and clearly the best character, like Son Goku (also, Goku, Kuugo). Yuan Jou is respectful of the Master and not given to outbursts like the other two, which were defining traits of Sha Gojyo (Also, that last syllable there could be transliterated as "Jou" instead of "Jyo", the same characters are used in this instance). Sammo Hakka is gluttonous and indulgent, like Cho Hakkai (also, Hakka, Hakkai). Naturally, the Master is then meant to be the wise Genjo Sanzo, guiding his three companions to enlightenment.

*Specifically, I'm using the spellings from the manga/anime Gensomaden Saiyuki, because I find them to be the most readable and also Saiyuki owns.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Feb 3, 2016

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 03:27

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

By the way, for some LP meta-trivia, the battle theme for this chapter, War in China, was once used in DeceasedCrab's LP of Cocoron. Enjoy having that play in your head from now on, every time you ever listen to War in China.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 05:38

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Literally any chapter but Mecha.

Look, just trust me, you'll enjoy it more that way.

Also, Eevee, will you be showing off Sammo's version of the scene in Odi's school?

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 07:38

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Adlai Stevenson posted:

Mecha is my least favorite so let's just shuffle on past it. And just name the guy Steve, it's all he deserves.

Okay see this is wrong and has nothing at all to do with why I'm saying to save it for last. There's just some payoff in that chapter that only works if we've been through at least Ninja and Cowboy beforehand.

(As usual, if you're not familiar with LAL definitely don't read this next bit.)

I mean yeah the writing is pretty iffy in that chapter and it just kinda dumps the whole plot on you all at once with no real explanation of anything, but everything is also rad as hell so it balances out and the Watanabe subplot is a pretty brilliant turn if Mecha's played close to last, turning what had been a goofy running joke into something legitimately tragic and providing possibly the biggest emotional impact of the chapter, simply because you weren't expecting the Watanabe gag to go dark like that, and they're the only "character" that persists between chapters.

Also c'mon man everyone knows that Steve is a girl's name. :colbert:

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 08:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

sleepy.eyes posted:

Cowboy. Name him Clint.

The name is presented as "The (name) Kid". That's why if you're gonna reject Sundown, you gotta go with Waco.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 09:09

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Looper posted:

nooo waco sucks, name him queso

You tellin' me you don't like Blazing Saddles? :catstare:

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 10:18

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Looper posted:

waco is a terrible town

Ain't nothin' "terrible" about this. Anyway, it's a moot point, it's between Ninja and Mecha this time around, I doubt Cowboy's gonna rally in what little time remains.

It's actually an eerily appropriate name when you consider his and Sundown's backstories.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 23:47

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

Haha, no. You don't get to do that. Pacifism would mean avoiding most of the chapter's content, which wouldn't make for a very good LP. And killing everyone actively screws the player out of rewards, with no benefit in return. (Beyond your own personal notion of 'highscore'.)

I'll show where everyone is in case you want to be a complete sociopath in your playthrough, but the main run will have... 80-something kills out of 100, I think.

Goddamn, I was going to vote for precisely the run you're all but certainly planning, I just did it myself last week while playing through again. Read my mind, why don'tcha.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 04:22

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I've been pretty excited to tell you guys about this chapter's illustrator, since the resident anime fans will probably be pretty jazzed. Oboro was designed by Gosho Aoyama, the creator of Detective Conan, known in the US as Case Closed. There's not a ton else to say besides the man being easily the biggest name Squaresoft got for the game. He had actually just started on what would become his most famous work the same year he did this chapter, and once we're far enough into the chapter for Eevee to show off the artwork from the OST, you'll probably recognize his style if you've seen Cased Closed at any point.

ArcadePark posted:

The correct name is Waco. The Waco Kid.

Thank you.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 16:42

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

idonotlikepeas posted:

I believe that particular piece of content, and another optional piece of content, can be done on a stealth run. It's hard, but it can be done. There is a way of levelling even as a stealth player. (I stealthed this section and ended it with a reasonable level.)

This is true, I've also done it. It's incredibly tedious without that Gameshark code you showed off earlier, but it can be done.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2016 01:18

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Glazius posted:

Isn't there a bonus boss in the caveman chapter too? The King Mammoth or whatever the biggest thing you can hunt is?

Not to disparage the ninja chapter or anything, Though it is kind of odd we're picking up so many pieces of armor that slow us down.

They don't slow you down, it's just that much of the early gear in the chapter comes with speed bonuses that you need to give up to wear the Genji gear. The gloves are easily the least impressive of the lot, the Shinobi Gauntlet is about equal in usefulness, and definitely superior for ~~Oboro~~Sonic's build.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2016 02:50

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

As a note, you are not required to kill any of the Trap Master's logs. You can kill the Trap Master in one hit with one of ~~Oboro~~ Sonic's ranged attacks (I forget which one it was offhand), without having to do anything to the logs. I feel like it's important to note that attacks always go to the targeted square, nothing blocks the line of fire. This can make that encounter a little less tedious than the Lost Souls, as you don't need to move around to get into attacking position, but the Trap Master is accompanied by a brief cutscene, so it's really six one, half-dozen the other.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2016 00:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Yapping Eevee posted:

Actually, this is not always true. I know that at least Shuriken Storm will get blocked by the logs; this does mean you can target things inside its range shadow if you want to, � la crossbows from Final Fantasy Tactics.

I think it might be that projectile attacks, in particular, are blocked. It's interesting how there are so many different types of attacks, but their properties only ever come up in fairly isolated situations.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2016 09:19

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

alcharagia posted:

Blatant spoilers.

Come on, man, tag that poo poo.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2016 23:22

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Seyser Koze posted:

The name of the terrifying old woman Okame no Kata is presumably a nod to the goddess Okame, who's generally depicted in masks and such as having a round face with bulging cheeks and a high forehead. Okame personified mirth and good fortune. Of course, standards of beauty have changed over the centuries, and these days okame is a derogatory term for a plain woman, particularly one who resembles an okame mask. In short, Okame-no-kata's name is basically "Homely Woman."

Also, if the Japanese guide I found while trying to find the name's original kanji can be believed, you can kill her without penalty and she drops some kind of equipment when you do. EDIT: Or maybe it's saying that if since she doesn't count until she actually dies you can safely beat on her for a while and hope for a random drop. Slight difference there.

It's the latter. The final defeat counts as killing a woman, but you can otherwise beat her up all you want.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2016 08:13

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Note: The "This's Awesome" (originally translated as "Surprised Guy", so basically the name of the item is just the shocked reaction it elicits, apparently) doesn't just have the (slightly) highest defense of all footwear in the chapter, it also makes you absorb every special tile, making it incredibly useful in this chapter, in particular, as it has the most tile manipulation by a fair margin. Normally, you'll only absorb water tiles, thanks to the Suijin's Tabi, the other candidate for best shoes due to their +8 Speed.

Additionally, if you try to talk to the demon man before killing all four samurai, he'll automatically finish off the rest before you fight him, denying you their numbers, so mass murderers beware! :eng101:

# ¿ Feb 21, 2016 03:14

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

alcharagia posted:

what the hell is this item and why have i never heard of it. what the gently caress

You have to fall down one specific pit on the trap floor that's made of pits, with the only thing resembling an indication of where it is being that it's due north of a Genji item. As far as I know there is nothing at all that tells you where it is or how to get it, and the bizarre name for the item implies that it was intended to be a secret on-par with the Basic Rock, minus the movie reference (unless it's to some old Japanese film I'm not familiar with, which is entirely likely, I'm not especially familiar with foreign cinema outside of spaghetti westerns and a handful of specific, well-known films like the works of Akira Kurosawa).

Anyway, your reaction is somewhat emblematic of Live A Live, in general. There's a ton of items you have only the most minuscule chance of obtaining from only a single encounter, or that are easily missed or overlooked, and you're often left wondering why the hell it was even included, as they're not even always the best items.

EDIT: I actually have a theory about the This's Awesome, now. Maybe during playtesting, they found that players had a tendency to fall down that specific hole rather than take the long way out of the room when collecting Genji gear before defeating Gennai, so they put a fairly useful, but not overpowering, reward at the bottom, rather than dumping you into the basement.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Feb 21, 2016

# ¿ Feb 21, 2016 06:28

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Blaze Dragon posted:

Wrestling with Domon Kasshu, because that story sounds far too much like G Gundam.

This post amuses me greatly because of something I will be revealing much later in the LP.

Also, think less G Gundam, more Street Fighter.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 04:03

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:21

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

For my vote on wrestler name, anything that isn't a reference to John Cena.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 06:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > A Caveman And A Psychic Walk Into A Bar: Let's Play Live A Live!

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