Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«104 »
Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from?
This poll is closed.
Marco Polo 36 20.69%
The Myth Makers 10 5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve 45 25.86%
The Savages 2 1.15%
The Smugglers 2 1.15%
The Highlanders 45 25.86%
The Macra Terror 21 12.07%
Fury from the Deep 13 7.47%
Total: 174 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

  • Locked thread
Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Toph Bei Fong posted:

Yeah, Ambassadors is in my personal top 5, along with (in no particular order) Brain of Morbius, Mind Robber, The Chase, and Happiness Patrol.

What would everyone else call for theirs? Not necessarily the "best" from an objective or technical standpoint (I'll be the first to admit that the lighting in Happiness Patrol sucks and the whole production looks rather cheap, and that the Chase drags a bit in the middle), but a personal one. The ones you put on when you're in a guilty pleasure mode, not trying to prove to someone that the show is "good" (though certainly I think Ambassadors or Brain would do that).

Desert Island Docs? Really hard to narrow it down to a top five. For me it would probably be something like "Tomb of the Cybermen", "Pyramids of Mars", "Talons of Weng Chiang", "The Greatest Show In the Galaxy" and "Remembrance of the Daleks" but those could change at the drop of the hat.

Jerusalem posted:

You beautiful, beautiful man

Didn't you yourself make a joke when the episode was broadcast that if RTD had introduced Colony Sarff, he would've made a joke about his gay brother, Colony Narff? Or am I confusing you with somebody else? I definitely remember the joke being made.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Wheat Loaf posted:

Didn't you yourself make a joke when the episode was broadcast that if RTD had introduced Colony Sarff, he would've made a joke about his gay brother, Colony Narff? Or am I confusing you with somebody else? I definitely remember the joke being made.

That sounds familiar to me not that you mention it, but I'd completely forgotten about it till now and have no idea if that was me or somebody else entirely vv

I don't think I would have made a joke about him being gay, but yeah there would have been a Colony Narff, he would have looked exactly the same but been a different color, and when called Sarff he would have said,"That's racist!" because RTD loving loved that joke.

Also he would have come from the planet Rakkalakkabarakkamenakkavakkakrommaloomadommadoo, not to be mistaken for its sister planet and hated rival Lommadommavakkamenakkabarakkalakkarakkadoo.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Mar 10, 2016 around 21:51

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Jerusalem posted:

Also he would have come from the planet Rakkalakkabarakkamenakkavakkakrommaloomadommadoo, not to be mistaken for its sister planet and hated rival Lommadommavakkamenakkabarakkalakkarakkadoo.

Nah, it'd be Rakkalakkabarakkamenakkavakkakrommaloomadommadoo and it's hated sister planet Splamk.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Splamk?

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Wheat Loaf posted:

Didn't you yourself make a joke when the episode was broadcast that if RTD had introduced Colony Sarff, he would've made a joke about his gay brother, Colony Narff? Or am I confusing you with somebody else? I definitely remember the joke being made.

I make this joke every time Colony Sarff comes up so it may have been me

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


I was also going to mention that I was re-watching The Thick of It recently - I haven't watched it in a few years and it's really weird because Peter Capaldi is the Doctor to me now.

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



Wheat Loaf posted:

I was also going to mention that I was re-watching The Thick of It recently - I haven't watched it in a few years and it's really weird because Peter Capaldi is the Doctor to me now.

I wish this would happen for me, in my mind he still hasn't really stopped being Malcolm Tucker.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I rewatched it all recently too and the two are - happily - completely distinct characters to me. When he's being Malcolm Tucker it doesn't feel weird or like I'm seeing the Doctor be angry sweary man, and when he's being the Doctor he doesn't seem like Malcolm Tucker being pragmatic but hopeful Time Lord.

Also it's still just as great a show after all this time. I'm just irritated the season DVD sets I own don't include the two specials. Rise of the Nutters and Spinners and Losers are absolutely brilliant, and Opposition Extra while weaker than those is at least a good introduction to Peter Mannion.

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



Jerusalem posted:

Peter Mannion.

is the best character in the entire show and I wish they'd cast Roger Allam in DW already (and give him more to do than they gave Rebecca Front, which I'm still salty about)

Flight Bisque
Feb 23, 2008

There is, surprisingly, always hope.


Splink?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Splamk.


Jon Pertwee was (and still is) a national treasure.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodbutt
Default Status: POOPING



Tim Burns Effect posted:

I wish this would happen for me, in my mind he still hasn't really stopped being Malcolm Tucker.

I love how he used to show up in random roles like Sid's dad on the first two series of Skins and then as a World Health Organization doctor in World War Z.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


It's a hat trick of Who birthdays today. Alex Kingston, John Barrowman, and the legend that was Douglas Adams.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005



This is a secret feature on the City of Death DVD, in which Douglas Adams and Ken Grieve (director of Destiny of the Daleks) demonstrate why exactly Douglas begins by affectionately calling Ken "one of the world's most stupendous and marvellous piss artists".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g885Io2Dj0M

C'est magnifique.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


While I think we all would agree with Capaldi's frustrations, taking a rather public shot at your employer is never a particularly good idea.

Unless, of course, you've already made up your mind and you have nothing to lose.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Capaldi probably has the most job security of anyone on DW. Yeah they can regenerate him but that's at worst what he was kind of leaning towards anyway.

Well Manicured Man
Aug 21, 2010

Well Manicured Mort

He's pretty on-point.

We can blame Moffat for mismanaging the show and overextending himself to the point that we ended up with split seasons, but poo poo like not airing the show at a consistent time of day every week is all on the BBC, right?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Well Manicured Man posted:

He's pretty on-point.

We can blame Moffat for mismanaging the show and overextending himself to the point that we ended up with split seasons, but poo poo like not airing the show at a consistent time of day every week is all on the BBC, right?

Oh yeah.

Moffat can be blamed for a lot of the things wrong with the show itself. How the network handles it is another matter.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Nice piece/interview with Eddie Robson.

qntm
Jun 17, 2009


Well Manicured Man posted:

He's pretty on-point.

We can blame Moffat for mismanaging the show and overextending himself to the point that we ended up with split seasons, but poo poo like not airing the show at a consistent time of day every week is all on the BBC, right?

The Magician's Apprentice: 19:30
The Witch's Familiar: 19:30
Under The Lake: 19:30
Before The Flood: 21:00
The Girl Who Died: 20:20
The Woman Who Lived: 20:20
The Zygon Invasion: 20:15
The Zygon Inversion: 20:00
Sleep No More: 20:15
Face The Raven: 20:10
Heaven Sent: 20:05
Hell Bent: 20:00

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Earthshock has such a massive range of quality.

The first episode is absolutely stunning (excellent! you could say), the rest less so. Beryl Reid as Ripley is an interesting casting choice.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Yeah, it should definitely be on around 7pm. The more people that make a fuss about that (I believe Moffat has also criticized the BBC over this) the better.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Jerusalem posted:

Yeah, it should definitely be on around 7pm.

Every night? When I said it was excellent I didn't mean that excellent!

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Earthshock has such a massive range of quality.

The first episode is absolutely stunning (excellent! you could say), the rest less so. Beryl Reid as Ripley is an interesting casting choice.

Smashing ending however.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Every night? When I said it was excellent I didn't mean that excellent!

Just replace Eastenders with never-ending Doctor Who.

EdBlackadder
Apr 8, 2009


Lipstick Apathy

The_Doctor posted:

Just replace Eastenders with never-ending Doctor Who.

You just described Watch's scheduling plan.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

The_Doctor posted:

Just replace Eastenders with never-ending Doctor Who.

Imagine Bonnie Langford screaming into a human's face. Forever.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Saward loving loves trying to make things seem non-arbitrary by having a character announce that actually it was obvious but they missed the signs.

eg:

*The cybermen get through a door with a bomb, having spent a few episode minutes doing a really circuitous plan that the Doctor foils*
"I should have realised!" said the Doctor.

saucerman
Mar 20, 2009


Timby posted:

While I think we all would agree with Capaldi's frustrations, taking a rather public shot at your employer is never a particularly good idea.

Unless, of course, you've already made up your mind and you have nothing to lose.

Or maybe if one of BBC's most important assets complains publicy then they may actually do something about it. Or at least that's what I'm hoping.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


Timby posted:

While I think we all would agree with Capaldi's frustrations, taking a rather public shot at your employer is never a particularly good idea.

Unless, of course, you've already made up your mind and you have nothing to lose.

Why do I get the feeling this may end up like Colin Baker all over again? Capaldi gets only a couple up and down seasons only to get shafted with a poor regeneration episode because he decided he wanted to continue working rather than sit around while the show is on hiatus. Meanwhile a lovely showrunner runs the show into the ground, making weird dramatic plans for the story that will never come to fruition due to poor execution and executive fuckery...



Chibnall is the JNT/Cartmel hybrid with half the talent. Basically, run.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

The first episode is absolutely stunning (excellent! you could say), the rest less so. Beryl Reid as Ripley is an interesting casting choice.

I like the documentary in the DVD special features where almost everyone they speak to slags off the "eating a well-prepared meal" line and makes fun of how Adric kept flinching away from the console just before the Cyberman shoots it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?




The second story of series 9 and part 2 of the opening story, The Witch's Familiar benefits from having shucked off most of the excess baggage from part 1 - UNIT, the medieval party, the Sisterhood, the Shadow Proclamation etc - and mostly concentrates on a pair of excellent double acts - the Doctor with Davros and the Master with Clara. The chemistry between these pairs is excellent, and both are clearly paralleled by one half of each pair doing their best to screw over the other half for their own benefit. Problems remain, however, most particularly in Clara's far too accommodating (even eager) reaction to teaming up with the woman she blames for the death of the love of her life. There is also the issue of Moffat introducing an entirely new concept regarding the Daleks to the episode in order to use it as the means of their defeat. He's done that before, but it's still disappointing to see especially considering how often he has gone out of his way to lay the groundwork for callbacks in previous seasons far earlier so they feel natural and earned instead of like something he pulled out of his rear end after painting himself into a corner narratively.

Speaking of which, that's precisely what he does in the opening section of the story, and in a way that feels like a completely natural extension of the Doctor's character. Having witnessed with his own eyes the death of the Master and Clara, the Doctor refuses to accept that the latter is truly dead (and KNOWS that the former isn't, she never is) and proves willing to go to any lengths to make his most fervent wish a reality (telegraphing Hell Bent. Repairing an old Dalek blaster in Davros' infirmary, he unceremoniously flings the ancient war-criminal out of his chair and - pretending eccentricity - coasts directly into the Dalek Command and demands they return Clara to him immediately.... or else. There is a good mix of comedy and darkness here, the Daleks' initial reaction to the Freudian nightmare of the Doctor sitting in their daddy's chair or nervously watching him drink tea (the line about where he got it is pretty awful, unfortunately) is wonderfully absurd and sums up their relationship with him quite well - they're armored killing machines and he's a seemingly helpless old man and yet he always seems to be the more dangerous of the two. Things get serious when he takes control of the city's speakers to announce to all the Daleks his ultimatum re: Clara, overheard by the Master down in the sewers who immediately picks up on just how dangerous a situation they're now walking into, even more dangerous than the initial suicide-mission of entering a Dalek city in the first place - the Doctor wants his friend back, the Daleks don't even know it's an option to do that, and the Doctor will tear down everything and everyone as a result (again, just like we'll see in Hell Bent)



How did the Master and Clara survive, it's so obvious that it almost doesn't bear being explained on the episode except it's an important example of just how closely the Master mirrors the Doctor so that when their differences come into full effect it has more impact. Using the Doctor as an example (with some wonderful use of body-doubles in her "flashback" to suggest it could have been any incarnation as they're all the same to the Master - note the way she subtly sticks it into Clara over her own doubts re: the Doctor post-regeneration) she explains that when facing odds of a million to one you ignore everything but the one and grab onto that. Much like the 11th Doctor once tested Victorian Clara's attention to detail and problem-solving with an umbrella, the Master uses this mental exercise to encourage and expand Clara's thinking, almost like a teacher herself. The way they fall almost naturally into a mentor/protege relationship feels weird given Clara's supposedly strong (and currently completely absent) feelings re: the Master, but if you look at the Master as a Doctor proxy then it makes a great deal of sense - Clara WANTS to be like the Doctor, she wants to travel and have adventures and be smart and NOT be small and insignificant or normal and so she latches onto the next best thing in the Master.

http://i.imgur.com/vBWhIXs.gifv
Big mistake.

The writing of the Master is a hell of a lot of fun, because she's basically the Doctor not only without a conscience but also a great joy and fascination in just.... well.... just loving with things. It's become far more pronounced in the revival, of course, but even in the classic series there was always something trollish about the Master, a bemusement at the petty and unimportant (to him/her) squabbles and affections and thoughts and feelings of beings that were utterly beneath him/her. The Master makes the same kind of jokes to Clara that the Doctor does, but with an underlying truth to the menace - when she says she fashioned a stake to hunt with but tied up Clara in case she couldn't find anything else to hunt, it doesn't come across as a joke for its own sake. She shoves Clara into the hole to find out its depth, that Clara survived uninjured is a bonus but not something that concerned her, if Clara had been injured or killed she would have shrugged and moved on, her tool broken and in need of replacement but no other thought. Even when Clara threatens her, the Master finds the whole thing hilarious fun because it's like a child throwing a tantrum to her (or a little dog yapping) and is quick to "put her in her place". Again and again, Clara mistakes the Master's indifference to her life's value as a front like the Doctor sometimes puts up, and again and again she suffers for it. The Master makes her stand in front of a security camera just to get a door open, chains her in place just to get in an ambush on a Dalek, and jams her inside of that Dalek just to enable her the freedom to walk the city corridors (consider the parallels between her tricking Clara into this as opposed to Ian volunteering for the duty back in The Daleks).

That will eventually lead to probably the best scene in the entire story, right towards the end. With Davros' scheme in tatters and the Dalek City collapsing all around them, the Doctor runs into a Dalek which the Master (with restrained glee) informs him is the one that killed Clara while they were sneaking back into it. As the Dalek screeches nonsense at the Doctor, he slowly realizes what is going on while the Master plays Satan tempting Jesus in the desert, urging him on and on to raise his blaster and kill the Dalek and get revenge for Clara. The Master's non-plussed reaction to getting rumbled when the casing opens and Clara is inside is just perfect, she was having so much fun and even when caught out just plays it off as if she was just an unaware. The Doctor warns her to run, wanting to have nothing to do with her, and that leaves her trapped in the collapsing city, surrounded by furious Daleks. "I've just had a clever thought," she says in the midst of this impossible to escape situation, calling back to the start of the episode where she laid out to Clara the way the Doctor always escapes impossible situations - we don't see what happens to her, but you can be drat sure she'll pop up again at some point in the future, shrugging indifferently when somebody asks how come she isn't dead.... and I wouldn't have it any other way.



But while the chemistry between the Master and Clara is a lot of fun, it's the excellent performances of Julian Bleach and Peter Capaldi that steal the show. Bleach only played the part of Davros once before in Journey's End but he nailed it then and he nails it now. The entire story is a fake-out for his true goal (again, shades of the season as a whole) and the only difference between the viewer and the Doctor is that while we both knew Davros was lying, the Doctor allowed hope that maybe Davros was genuine. Davros' claim is that having remembered the Doctor abandoning him in his youth, he has called him back to face his shame. But the Doctor is not bothered by his shame, accepting it as a part of life, and informs Davros that the only reason he came was because Davros was sick and he asked. Davros is dying, kept alive only by remaining in the infirmary sucking up energy from every Dalek in the city. He claims they keep him alive because of a genetic flaw he could never fully excise from them - mercy and respect for their creator - but the truth is of course far more cynical, they're keeping him alive because he has promised to improve upon their perfection and grant them the ability to regenerate their bodies. The revelation made during Master/Clara scenes is that while the Daleks are genetically hardcoded to stay alive, they cannot fight entropy and after long enough their bodies break down and rot like any other living matter... but the horrible consciousness of the Dalek remains, twisted insane(r) by being abandoned, lining the walls of the "sewers" as a kind of living alarm system. Davros' scheme will end that, allowing the Daleks to retain their genetic purity forever without breaking down into furious goo after a few centuries/millennia.

So from the moment the Doctor is returned to the infirmary, Davros is doing everything he can to convince him to gently caress around with the cables at the center of the infirmary, where Colony Sarff is hiding and waiting for his moment to strike. It's a masterclass watching Davros probe the Doctor and change his tactics all in aid of achieving this goal. At first he offers up that he is so sick of his own existence that he wants it to end even at the expense of his own creations, and so offers the Doctor the opportunity to turn the energy transfer back on itself and destroy every Dalek. But when the Doctor refuses and embraces the notion that he will be proud to let compassion be his undoing, Davros is suddenly all about how his death would be the compassionate thing, even going so far as to congratulate the Doctor upon learning the Time Lords and Gallifrey have returned (the Doctor doesn't know that he knows where, just not when). He puts on a pity party, humanizing himself in the Doctor's eyes by shutting down his electronic eye and for the first time in the show's history opening his actual eyes, and then pretends utter exhaustion so that he doesn't have the strength to open them and see the sun as it rises. But in the end, what finally pierces through to the Doctor's heart is when Davros makes a joke, and the two share a bewildered laugh together. It's in this moment that Davros "wins", using his compassion against him so that he agrees to help, offering up some of his own regeneration energy to gift Davros just a trifle more strength and time.



And this is where we get Davros at his best, the Davros who cackles and rants and screams just like his creations do. His plan had been to trap the Doctor using Colony Sarff and then tear his body apart to find the secret of regeneration, but in his wildest dreams he didn't expect the Doctor to be so gullible as to actually freely offer it up himself. Julian Bleach's performance here is fantastic, as suddenly the weak and exhausted Davros is full of vim and vigor again even before the regeneration energy starts pumping in. Yes he was ancient and dying, barely kept alive by the Daleks feeding their own energy into him, but he was not as feeble and pathetic as he made out. Now, with regeneration energy coursing into him, his body strengthens and straightens and the horrible mind that created the Daleks is no longer constrained by the dying form of the last true Kaled. It's a fantastic moment, one that could have easily been the defining moment of an actual season finale as opposed to the first story of the season.



And of course.... that's where it all falls apart, both for Davros and for the actual plot itself. Though the Doctor does need to be saved by the Master after she realizes what is going on (the Daleks temporarily shut down as their bodies adjust to the regeneration energy), he had taken the possibility that this is what Davros wanted into account - after all, the only thing Davros was more obsessed with than victory was his own continued life. What the Doctor (and the Master) remembered and the Daleks forgot was that even though they'd been reduced to goo lining the walls of the "sewers", that muck still considered itself Dalek, was still genetically "pure", and when the regeneration energy fired throughout the city it hit them too. Renewed enough to move and act, the utterly insane goo attacks the other Daleks that left them to their fates, attack the city itself at its very foundations.

It's perfectly in keeping with the Daleks that they'd overlook something they considered inferior or beneath them only to have it come back to bite them on the rear end, but the trouble is in how this was all put together. After a largely entertaining episode carried by the chemistry of its two double-acts, the conflict is resolved by something the writer just went ahead and made up as a key thing about the Daleks never seen before this episode. In the same way that Asylum of the Daleks used that Path-Web nonsense out of nowhere (Into the Dalek elaborated and improved on that, thankfully), this story makes up out of whole cloth the notion that the Daleks decay as they age till they fall apart into liquid goo and get dumped into the "sewers". More than that, since when could the Doctor just call up regeneration energy whenever he felt like and make use of it? The only time I can think of when something similar happened was in Let's Kill Hitler and it didn't make much sense there either, though at least River was still in early post-regeneration phase and you could argue she wasn't entirely stable yet (like the 10th Doctor restored his hand in The Christmas Invasion). Then you've got the whole scene earlier where Clara is put inside a Dalek and we learn that their vocalizations are "edited" by their casings to keep them pure, and we learn that they reload/fire their weapons (which scratches the genocidal itch Davros genetically coded into them) by enhancing what little emotions they have left (hate, primarily, with a healthy dose of secret fear). While it makes for a good scene and some fun bits of dialogue, it doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny since Daleks are genetically engineered to be this way anyway and we've seen plenty of examples of rogue Daleks being free to express themselves.... even if it does usually end in all the other Daleks exterminating the gently caress out of them. It creates a (false) impression that the Daleks are forced to act this way no matter what they're actually doing inside their casings, when we know that 9.9 times out of 10 every Dalek is enthusiastically doing exactly what they're supposed to do. It would actually be a rather inefficient system to hide rogue elements rather than to expose them to the others who would very quickly "remove" them from the equation to protect their purity.

This feels very much like a case of Moffat deciding on the two main things he wanted to happen in the story - Davros gets revitalized by some regeneration energy, but then everything goes wrong and the plan backfires - and made up a couple of new "facts" to explain how this happened, just jamming them into place instead of introducing the concepts naturally and letting the story flow. The use of a term like "suspension of disbelief" always sounds a little weird when talking about a show like Doctor Who, but I can really feel the injection of the writing into the story in this episode. Maybe that doesn't make any sense to any of you, but for me that artificial feeling hampers my enjoyment, even if I otherwise think this is a very good episode... it's a bit like getting poked in the eye.

http://i.imgur.com/JAmMyff.gifv
I love that this is the first ever onscreen meeting of the Master and Davros

Despite my earlier complaints about the Dalek vocabulary filtering system, the scene where Clara is screaming,"I AM A DALEK I AM A DALEK!" at the Doctor is excellently done, and it leads into the Doctor's moment of realization of just how the word mercy ever made it through into the Daleks' vocabulary in the first place. Davros said (and was probably lying) that the Daleks had mercy for him and this was a trait he had failed to remove, but the Doctor comes to a different conclusion and does pretty much what we all guessed he was going to do even before the cliffhanger of the previous episode. Returning to the child Davros on Skaro, he uses the Dalek blaster to destroy the handmines and offers to take him home. Young Davros asks if he is the enemy or not, and the Doctor replies that friends and enemies don't matter so long as there is mercy. It's a wonderful line and visual to end the episode on, but it's the earlier line that is of more importance to me. The Doctor says he is doing the only thing he can to save his friend, meaning Clara. The cliffhanger is meant to make us think he plans to kill Davros to save Clara, but in the new context we realize he has to save Davros in order to "infect" him with the notion of mercy so that in the far-flung future Clara will be able to use that word to prevent the Doctor accidentally killing her at the Master's goading. The Doctor is willing to do anything, including saving baby Hitler, if it means Clara will live. That is the lesson to take from this episode, one that will be key at the end of the season.

But as for The Witch's Familiar itself, it's a perfectly fine episode whose narrative suffers from some clumsily injected elements that are necessary for the resolution but don't flow well within the story. But the chemistry between the four main actors is excellent, and gives Julian Bleach as Davros and Michelle Gomez as the Master a chance to show off their chops, a chance to grab with both hands. Characterization-wise it tells us a lot about all four, and while the Master and Davros are the more showy of the four, the Doctor and Clara also get to continue adding to their won and carefully setting the scene for the finale where everything will come to a head. I still think The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar would have been better served being mashed together into one 70-80 minute special, but that didn't happen so I guess I'll just say that of the two, it's this one I prefer.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Stuporstar posted:

Why do I get the feeling this may end up like Colin Baker all over again? Capaldi gets only a couple up and down seasons only to get shafted with a poor regeneration episode because he decided he wanted to continue working rather than sit around while the show is on hiatus. Meanwhile a lovely showrunner runs the show into the ground, making weird dramatic plans for the story that will never come to fruition due to poor execution and executive fuckery...



Chibnall is the JNT/Cartmel hybrid with half the talent. Basically, run.

Your Chibnall paranoia is starting to get (more) OTT.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


He used regeneration energy to fix River's hand in The Angels Take Manhattan.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Dabir posted:

He used regeneration energy to fix River's hand in The Angels Take Manhattan.

Forgot about that, yeah it's an established thing now I guess. I still don't like it, it kind of feels like a crutch/cheat to me that apparently you can just call on regeneration energy whenever you feel like it.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


cargohills posted:

Your Chibnall paranoia is starting to get (more) OTT.

So? Am I not allowed to be hyperbolic on Something Awful of all places?

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Jerusalem posted:

Yeah, it should definitely be on around 7pm. The more people that make a fuss about that (I believe Moffat has also criticized the BBC over this) the better.

Yeah, Moffat has spoke about this before. And they are more than just guys who work on the show, they are lifelong fans, and from a fan's perspective they are probably protective of it. It's more than a job for them--they could walk now and be set for life and always work on other stuff. I would imagine both of them want to be able to go on watching the show for years to come as fans and don't like it being treated shabbily by the network.



Stuporstar posted:

Why do I get the feeling this may end up like Colin Baker all over again? Capaldi gets only a couple up and down seasons only to get shafted with a poor regeneration episode because he decided he wanted to continue working rather than sit around while the show is on hiatus. Meanwhile a lovely showrunner runs the show into the ground, making weird dramatic plans for the story that will never come to fruition due to poor execution and executive fuckery...

I don't think that would ever happen again because the landscape of tv is very different now than it was 30 years ago. Nobody is going to say "Doctor Who needs a rest" and then shut it down but keep paying the producers to show up to an office for months at a time to twiddle their thumbs, not give them any idea what sort of retooling is expected, etc.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008

You can't see me at all...


Stuporstar posted:

Why do I get the feeling this may end up like Colin Baker all over again? Capaldi gets only a couple up and down seasons only to get shafted with a poor regeneration episode because he decided he wanted to continue working rather than sit around while the show is on hiatus.

Well, Capaldi is an award winning actor/writer/director with a ton of cultural cachet, has been in basically every BBC series ever, and is friends with most everyone who is anyone in the film and television industry.

Firing him would be a little more difficult, socially, than getting rid of the guy who used to be on The Brothers and was in that one Blake's 7 episode... Capaldi is at the point in his career where he can throw his weight around a bit and people listen.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

He who fights shitposters should see to it that he himself does not become a shitposter. And if you gaze for long into an anidavatar, the anidavatar gazes also into you.

qntm posted:

The Magician's Apprentice: 19:30
The Witch's Familiar: 19:30
Under The Lake: 19:30
Before The Flood: 21:00
The Girl Who Died: 20:20
The Woman Who Lived: 20:20
The Zygon Invasion: 20:15
The Zygon Inversion: 20:00
Sleep No More: 20:15
Face The Raven: 20:10
Heaven Sent: 20:05
Hell Bent: 20:00
How the gently caress does this happen? Does the arbitrary-length show on before it change each week?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

IceAgeComing
Jan 29, 2013

pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

I'm pretty sure that Strictly Come Dancing gets shorter every week, but I could be wrong. That's the reason why its been on so late: they aren't going to move around their biggest show but rather everything around it. There was also the Rugby World Cup earlier on in the series, I think that's the reason why one of the episodes went out at 9 which is way too late

Hopefully moving to the spring lets them get an earlier regular slot: especially since they won't have The Voice or any big reality show to push them around...

  • Locked thread
«104 »