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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from? This poll is closed. |
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| Marco Polo |
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36 | 20.69% |
| The Myth Makers |
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10 | 5.75% |
| The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve |
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45 | 25.86% |
| The Savages |
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2 | 1.15% |
| The Smugglers |
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2 | 1.15% |
| The Highlanders |
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45 | 25.86% |
| The Macra Terror |
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21 | 12.07% |
| Fury from the Deep |
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13 | 7.47% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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Toxxupation posted:After eating rotting garbage I gotta say a gas station egg salad sandwich is delicious Well of course it is. It'll turn you super human.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:34
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Toxxupation posted:After reading atlas shrugged Geez dude, I can understand doing crazy stuff when Toxxed, but sometimes it might be better just to eat the ban and re-register 
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Apr 4, 2016 23:34
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YOU WEREN'T THERE, TOXX! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE! Imagine Superboy Prime on every comic book cover for all eternity.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:44
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CobiWann posted:YOU WEREN'T THERE, TOXX! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE! That's not exactly the best metaphor - we're SUPPOSED to hate Superboy Prime.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:46
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CaptainYesterday posted:That's not exactly the best metaphor - we're SUPPOSED to hate Superboy Prime. Think about it. Punching the Multiverse gave us Jason Todd back, Flashpoint, the New 52, and the DC Cinematic Universe. It's all punishment for enjoying three months of the Sinestro Corps War.
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Apr 4, 2016 23:48
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CobiWann posted:YOU WEREN'T THERE, TOXX! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE! I don't get the analogy but wrestlemania was literally the first ever live wrestling I've ever seen
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Apr 4, 2016 23:53
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Toxxupation posted:I don't get the analogy but wrestlemania was literally the first ever live wrestling I've ever seen I'll put this in terms you can understand. Imagine there was a 4.5-hour long Doctor Who, and it was the Zygon Inversion - you knew something bad was coming in from the build up.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:07
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I like Randy Savage.
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Apr 5, 2016 00:30
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Toxxupation posted:I don't get the analogy but wrestlemania was literally the first ever live wrestling I've ever seen I'm very sorry 
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Apr 5, 2016 01:52
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An answer to the question on everyone's lips.
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Apr 7, 2016 13:23
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Note: the author seems to believe that The Zygon Inv(a/er)sion is pro-immigration
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Apr 7, 2016 13:28
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Note: the author seems to believe that The Zygon Inv(a/er)sion is pro-immigration I... just.... what? WHAT?! 
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Apr 7, 2016 13:34
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Apr 7, 2016 13:48
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It's a trick question, because the Doctor taking part in a vote means that circumstances are now obviously extraneous to the point where it doesn't actually matter, because aliens are meddling beyond the level of terrestrial politics anyway. So while you should probably vote for what he does anyway, it's because the other side are secret Daleks, not because of anything the side he's voting for are actually saying. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Apr 7, 2016 |
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Apr 7, 2016 13:56
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I... just.... what? Well it's not anti-immigration, is it?
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Apr 7, 2016 18:21
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DoctorWhat posted:Well it's not anti-immigration, is it? Don't start
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Apr 7, 2016 18:31
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DoctorWhat posted:Well it's not anti-immigration, is it? It is, actually. Very much so.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:09
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Unless you think "Immigration is ok if and only if the immigrants blend in exactly and you don't know they're there" is a pro-immigration stance. But it isn't, it's a racist one.
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Apr 7, 2016 19:11
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"Most immigrants are just fine! It's only the bad ones you have to watch out for, who by the way look and sound exactly like the good ones until they turn on you and kill you! There could even be some bad immigrants living on your street and you wouldn't know it!" Sounds pretty pro-immigrant to me, I mean, it says right there that most of them are perfectly nice, right?
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Apr 8, 2016 05:04
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I realise there's the political dimension to the Zygon episodes, but I don't really care about it because I don't really follow politics. I just think it's a pretty poorly put together episode which would be pretty poorly put together regardless of what its message was.
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Apr 8, 2016 10:05
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Wheat Loaf posted:I realise there's the political dimension to the Zygon episodes, but I don't really care about it because I don't really follow politics So if there's an episode of a TV programme that states "Gay people are bad and you should murder them" would you not care about that message because you don't really follow politics? To go off on a tangent, the belief that: 1. It's acceptable to not be interested in politics and 2. It's possible to not be interested in politics is something that's been deliberately pushed in order to make it easier to gently caress people over (see: our current government, and especially our chancellor - that's pretty much the entire Gideon Strategy for PR for the budget/autumn statement for instance).
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Apr 8, 2016 10:51
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MrL_JaKiri posted:So if there's an episode of a TV programme that states "Gay people are bad and you should murder them" would you not care about that message because you don't really follow politics? Sorry.
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Apr 8, 2016 11:22
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Aha, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you 
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Apr 8, 2016 11:54
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I have an only slightly peculiar "where to start" request. I have a friend who tried Who (revival), but eventually gave up a little after they got to Tennant. They really liked Eccleston, but also mentioned just generally not being fond of the show's tone. I kind of want to just show them one episode from Moffat's run to give them an idea of how the tone of the show drastically changed, and maybe get them to look at it again since I know their tastes and I think they'd like some of the later stuff (esp since the tone is markedly different from RTD Who). Eleventh Hour is a typical Go To here, but I'm worried Smith's manicness may come across as too Tennant-ish maybe? I don't know if that's a legitimate concern. I think he might like Capaldi's curmudgeonness, but Capaldi doesn't have many super great episodes. Mummy is good, but feels like a story episode. Flatlined is good, but possibly too Doctor Lite -- also, Flatlined feels kind of like pre-Moffat Who in some ways to me. The Girl Who Waited is good, and Doctor Lite without being TOO Doctor Lite, and has Smith not really being manic. The only problem is that I'm worried you may not give a poo poo about Amy, and some of the episode's goodness lies in her having already been established as The Girl Who Waited in The Eleventh Hour. I was really leaning towards Heaven Sent, with just the quick preface "the Doctor's long-time companion just died" which is probably sufficient since they know about the general Doctor/Companion dynamic so it doesn't require too much explanation, unlike with a total newbie. However, I just rewatched it, and it might be weird because the entire thing is kind of framed as Capaldi grieving/talking to dead Clara, which might not work if you don't know about her, even with that preface. I'm probably overthinking this immensely, and assigning too much significant to minor continuity details, but I'm wondering if anyone had thoughts on these episodes' suitability, or even other episodes I hadn't considered.
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Apr 8, 2016 11:59
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Trin Tragula posted:Aha, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you Such has long been my impression.
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Apr 8, 2016 12:04
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The Angel two-parter? Vincent and the Doctor? A Christmas Carol? God Complex? Eleventh Hour is still a good choice I think.
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Apr 8, 2016 12:08
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Jsor posted:I have an only slightly peculiar "where to start" request. I have a friend who tried Who (revival), but eventually gave up a little after they got to Tennant. They really liked Eccleston, but also mentioned just generally not being fond of the show's tone. I kind of want to just show them one episode from Moffat's run to give them an idea of how the tone of the show drastically changed, and maybe get them to look at it again since I know their tastes and I think they'd like some of the later stuff (esp since the tone is markedly different from RTD Who). Into the Dalek? Stand alone, grumpy capaldi and he should allready know about daleks.
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Apr 8, 2016 12:10
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Hmm…this is a tough one if you’re concerned about Smith’s more manic portrayal of the Doctor. Try The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People. And… 
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Apr 8, 2016 12:13
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Jsor posted:I have an only slightly peculiar "where to start" request. The God Complex might be a good choice because it deconstructs the Doctor a bit. A Town Called Mercy would maybe work since it mixes the goofy/corny elements with some tough topics. For Capaldi, I'd either go with Into the Dalek because it shows the Doctor being a grumpus (and it has Daleks in it), or Listen because it is scary, and the Doctor is going nuts. CobiWann posted:Hmm… this is a tough one if you're concerned about Smith's more manic portrayal of the Doctor. Try The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People. Doubling the amount of Matt Smith on screen at any given moment might not be the best way to address this.
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Apr 8, 2016 12:17
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And More posted:The God Complex might be a good choice because it deconstructs the Doctor a bit. A Town Called Mercy would maybe work since it mixes the goofy/corny elements with some tough topics. For Capaldi, I'd either go with Into the Dalek because it shows the Doctor being a grumpus (and it has Daleks in it), or Listen because it is scary, and the Doctor is going nuts. Truth, but I think the episode is much more serious and Smith is a little less manic, even with two of them, than he was in The Eleventh Hour. Plus that's one hell of a cliffhanger.
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Apr 8, 2016 12:23
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Mummy on the Orient Express
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Apr 8, 2016 12:43
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CobiWann posted:Truth, but I think the episode is much more serious and Smith is a little less manic, even with two of them, than he was in The Eleventh Hour. Plus that's one hell of a cliffhanger. Yeah, I guess the seriousness sets it off well enough. I think you'd have to switch it off before the Doctor turns Amy into jelly, though. Out of context, that's just weird. MrL_JaKiri posted:Mummy on the Orient Express I actually tried showing it to a friend, and he was very confused. A large part of that episode is dedicated to all the relationship drama that happens throughout the series. The manic pace doesn't help, either.
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Apr 8, 2016 13:04
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I'm a sucker for The Bells Of St John. It's not the most self contained episode what with the big Clara mystery and all, but introducing a new companion is a good sample episode because it introduces them to the Doctor as well.
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Apr 8, 2016 13:21
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Heaven sent would be a bad intro to DW the same way that Blink is a bad intro to DW I would absolutely go with eleventh hour. Capaldis run is, at best, an absolute loving mess so far, and if you're trying to get your friend into who you want to represent what they'll be expecting out of who in the episodes to come, just the absolute best version of it. Eleventh hour, in addition to being in my opinion the single best episode the show has ever made, is the ur example, the platonic ideal of doctor who. If your friend doesn't like it they won't like doctor who, because it's a brilliant episode that's also totally representative of the average format of the program. If you want to show an episode from Twelves run, I'd go with Listen, since it's also self contained and indicative of what Who at it's very best can be. The lore callbacks are ignorable (it's clear that's the doctor as a kid in the barn even if you don't know anything about the significance of gallifrey or that barn) and unlike, say mummy it's not reliant on knowing the current status of Clara and the Doctor's relationship to really function. But I still wouldn't go with that because it's a good Twelve episode, of which there are scant few. The nice thing about a good Eleven episode, even the best one like Eleventh Hour, is that there's a plethora of them, so it's not exactly blowing your load early if you show him it. Plus unlike most other suggestions it's designed as an introductory episode. Part of its purpose is to function as a reboot for the series, and it works best as a way to bring new viewers into the fold.
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Apr 8, 2016 13:38
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Trin Tragula posted:Aha, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you  "hooray, someone is interested in me!"Jsor posted:I have an only slightly peculiar "where to start" request. I have a friend who tried Who (revival), but eventually gave up a little after they got to Tennant. They really liked Eccleston, but also mentioned just generally not being fond of the show's tone. I kind of want to just show them one episode from Moffat's run to give them an idea of how the tone of the show drastically changed, and maybe get them to look at it again since I know their tastes and I think they'd like some of the later stuff (esp since the tone is markedly different from RTD Who). Picklepuss fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 14:30
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Toxxupation posted:Heaven sent would be a bad intro to DW the same way that Blink is a bad intro to DW
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Apr 8, 2016 14:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Blink is at least a good stand alone episode, whereas Heaven Sent doesn't really work unless you know who Clara is. And ~the Hybrid~, and the Time Lords. I think a new viewer could ignore any one of these things, but taken together it might make one feel a bit non-clued-in.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:25
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 The Doctor posted:You and me together. Look how far I went, for fear of losing you. This has to stop. One of us has to go. Hell Bent is a story that is very, very, very specifically NOT about the Hybrid. Which is why the first half of the episode is simultaneously clever and frustrating, because it spends all its time continuing to build up the season-long universe-shaking threat of "......THE HYBRID!  " only to reveal any relevance the so-called prophecy had was played up by the Doctor purely to get what he wanted - Clara back. For nearly a dozen episodes the show has periodically peppered bizarrely clumsy references to this so-called Hybrid, repeating the by now old-hat concept of the entire universe being in danger and the Doctor being guardian of some horrifying secret. And much like Moffat did with the equally unappealing notion of,"The Doctor's name has some secret power", he turns this on its head by revealing that the whole thing was a red herring or the result of the misconceptions of other characters applying significance when there was none. Why THIS episode can get away with in a way that the season as a whole cannot is because this leads into some absolutely exceptional character work and performances from Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman, as the two characters finally say their final goodbyes and we get to see an alternate take on the (excellent) ending to Donna's adventures with the 10th Doctor. This continues and concludes the TRUE season-long arc of the slowly growing realization of the toxic co-dependency of the Doctor and Clara's relationship, and it makes series 9 satisfying in that regard.... but it's undercut by its deception regarding the Hybrid not excusing the uneven, jumbled feel of the season itself that pretended to be heading in one (tired) direction only to head off in a (far more interesting) direction and bring what was buried in the undercurrent to the fore.http://i.imgur.com/SuxgD9P.gifv Deception is a major theme of the episode, from the opening to the closing characters lie or deceive each other for various reasons. Some have the best intentions but do cruel and callous things in the process, others deceive by mutual agreement, and the writer and director deceive the viewer by what they choose to show and when. The episode opens with the Doctor arriving at a diner in Nevada where he is greeted by a very familiar looking waitress, and he offers to sing her a song and tell her a story by way of payment for food. The immediate suggestion is that the Doctor has found some way to save Clara, and has tracked her down to either check up on her or reunite. The opposite ends up being true, of course, the Doctor is the one who is lost, who doesn't remember, whose story isn't revealing anything new to the raptly listening Clara who is herself just checking up on HIM before going on her own way. From the outset this framing device is used to make the viewer think one way so it can then take them in another direction, which will be repeated all throughout the episode. Similarly, when we return to Gallifrey we find that the Doctor, after getting the child to deliver his threat, hasn't headed towards the city like was suggested but has turned around and gone in another direction entirely. The Time Lords wait for him to return, then finally have to send soldiers to figure out where he is - he's returned to the now-familiar barn first seen in The Day of the Doctor. There, unnamed outsiders hang on his every movement as he silently settles in to the barn and eats soup prepared by an old woman who obviously recognizes him. In a silent power-play, the Doctor refuses to acknowledge the authority of the military, the High Council or the President himself, forcing them to come to him and acknowledge that he holds the upper hand... as well as hold them to account for the torture they put him through which indirectly also caused the death of Clara in the first place (even if that was always coming considering her reckless ways).   Oh yeah, also this episode is gorgeous. Using the return of Gallifrey and the Time Lords as a mere backdrop for the Doctor/Clara story would, I imagine, be annoying for some. There is something rather perfect though about the Doctor returning to his "home" and immediately wanting to get the hell out of there. He plays to their expectations that he'll still share the same values as their own, that he would have any interest whatsoever in a Presidency he has already abandoned at least twice before in his lifetimes because - for all the talk about "I was bored" being a lie about why he left - he does find their entire society stifling, boring, and entirely with its head up its own rear end. gently caress their prophecies, gently caress their politics, gently caress everything about these assholes who tortured him for 4 billion years instead of just ASKING him for the information they wanted.... but he'll use those expectations and beliefs to get what he wants, which is Clara back. It does mean that most of the roughly first half of the story goes nowhere though, basically a shaggy dog story that argues it is heading one way so that the Doctor and Clara can run away together in a TARDIS together for the rest of the story, having used the Time Lords' fears to trick them into scooping Clara out of time a moment before her death. It's perfectly in keeping with the Doctor's way of doing things, and treats the entire Hybrid storyline with the contempt it's ham-handed treatment throughout series 9 has warranted. Let the "enemy" think they've got the upper hand or you're working with them, then turn their expectations against them. In many ways, he's STILL inside that Confession Dial, being run through a maze of the Time Lords' creation while doing what he can to turn it all against itself. He succeeds, of course, he rescues Clara and they escape together and leave Gallifrey to survive or not on its own - he saved Gallifrey, that doesn't mean he should be beholden to it. It's in direct contrast to his reply to Clara when she asks why he went through so much to bring her back to life, and quietly he replies,"I have a duty of care." Gallifrey is his planet but it is not his home, that's the mistake the Time Lords made when they wrote "HOME" on the wall in Heaven Sent, because to the Doctor home is his TARDIS, and family are the friends and companions he has made, in this case Clara. But while it all makes sense in context, and it is clear when all is said and done that the direction they were aiming for all along was an exploration of the dangers of the codependent relationship they'd established (both are survivors of tragedies, and a deep part of their bond is in using the other to hide from the effects of those tragedies).... it doesn't excuse half an episode - and more importantly an entire season - of fiddle-loving about on some half-assed executed mumblings about some vague threat. That the lack of detail was the point doesn't excuse the lack of detail, just because this entirely different ending is good doesn't automatically make the entirely different story that lead up to it better. Just doing a season of the Doctor and Clara having adventures and setting the stage for the lengths they were willing to go to for each other would have done the job just as effectively. But by insisting on pulling the carpet out from under the audience, Moffat just stitches together a thinner version of what he already did in the back half of season 7 with the Doctor's name as a plot point. When considering whether he could mislead the audience, Moffat didn't seem to think about (or just dismissed) whether he SHOULD. Because while intellectually I can look back across all of series 9 and see plainly all the red herrings about the Doctor jumping about in his own time stream, about whether Clara had already died and he'd hosed with time or was just visiting her past for new adventures etc... from a week to week basis, everything leading up to throwing out all the extraneous plots and just doing a story about a lonely old man and a lonely young woman clinging to each other for support was a disjointed mess that couldn't seem to settle on a tone or theme. But I won't judge this episode on series 9's failures as a whole. Because while the setting of the first half of the episode quickly gets thrown out, while the Cloisters and the Sliders and the needless hint-dropping about the Doctor's youth feel utterly irrelevant, while the returning characters like Rassilon, the General and Ohila are mere window-dressing... once the episode settles into actually exploring the real theme of "One of us has to go" things get really, really good.   Retrieving Clara "between heartbeats" in her final moment before being struck by the Quantum Shade Raven, the Doctor grabs a gun from the General, ascertains he still has regenerations to spare and shoots him before taking off with a bewildered Clara in tow and hiding down in the Cloisters where every other Time Lord fears to tread. There's some fun visual stuff there that seeks to play up the dangerous nature of the Cloisters' defense mechanisms, as we see a kind of techno-organic Cordyceps-esque version of Daleks, Cybermen and Weeping Angels who tried to infiltrate the Matrix and were instead turned into its guardians. The Dalek pathetically begs to be exterminated, the Angels are held in place and have their own powers used in defense of the place, and even the rather cheap looking "Sliders" have a face that brings to mind the anguished "immortality" of the likes of Borusa's fate in The Five Doctors. But that's all so much chaff designed to distract, just like the Doctor attempts to distract Clara as he tells her stories and refuses to answer the question of how long he was tortured in the Confession Dial. When she finally gets that information out of him, she delivers a blistering condemnation to the Time Lords where they arrive on the periphery, which itself is just HER distracting them while the Doctor escapes, steals a TARDIS (of course!) and returns in time to grab her up and get the hell out of dodge. Rachel Talalay directs again, and while the episode doesn't have the intimate feel that made Heaven Sent so outstanding, she still does an excellent job putting everything together. In that regard, all the production stuff is on point, from the visual design to the sets and props and most especially that glorious High-Defintion classic console. This is a really beautiful looking episode, it sometimes pays to think back over how far the show has come since it's 2005 re-introduction, or even since series 5 and the start of the Moffat era where The Eleventh Hour marked a new high watermark for the look of the show. It has an almost effortless feel (which goes to show how much effort was put in!), everything just kind of naturally feels right, there is very little sense of artificiality to anything. The pacing is well handled, shots are well chosen and the episode flows from big sweeping vistas to tight close-ups without feeling uneven or schizophrenic (which, again, is sadly not the case for series 9 as a whole). The Doctor's scheme was straightforward, he'd pull Clara out of time and then just... hope everything turned out all right. He's lying to himself and on some level he knows it, though Clara is the first to verbalize it. The idea is that time would just paper over the crack because it was such a little thing, just one person's life - important to the Doctor for sure, but the universe could get by. Except of course her death leads to the Doctor spending 4+ billion years in a confession dial stubbornly refusing to capitulate to the Time Lords, kicking Rassilon and the High Council off Gallifrey, shooting a General and stealing a TARDIS. The Universe can't just pretend that all that happened even when the root cause didn't, so Clara's heartbeat doesn't start up again, the universe refuses to acknowledge she is alive again, she has to remain dead. And in that regard, that stupid, ham-fisted Hybrid Prophecy ends up kinda coming true in the end anyway. http://i.imgur.com/f3JRcek.gifv Seriously, this episode is just gorgeous The Doctor retreats to the very end of time (again!), angrily proclaiming that if the universe is ending it doesn't get a say in whether Clara should be alive or dead. Four knocks (again!) interupt his rant, and he steps outside to meet who he knows must be waiting - Me. The last of the immortals, Me has finally become what she was long pretending to be - fully capable and self-aware without seeming smug or bitter or forced. When the Doctor reminds her of his threat to her in Face the Raven, he does it without malice because he knows the person he's meeting now is different to the one he left behind. Maisie Williams seems to have finally made herself comfortable in the role, partly because Me herself as a character is now comfortable in her own skin. The empty bragging of a child trying to impress an adult is gone, when he notes she is using a reality bubble to keep the shattered remains of the long-abandoned Cloisters alive and asks how she is doing it, her reply is a simple "brilliantly" that conveys her competence without the need to show off. They share a brief (and interesting) philosophical discussion on whether the end of the universe is beautiful, sad or both which plays back into their discussion of Clara's sacrifice. There is some brief talk about the Hybrid, teases on whether it was Me or the Doctor himself (including a little jab at the idea of the Doctor being half-human) before Me just dismisses that and says maybe the Hybrid was two people - the Doctor and Clara. It's all a metaphor for the Doctor and Clara's relationship of course, and the terms of the prophecy end up coming exactly true through no effort on anybody's part. The "Hybrid", whoever it might be, is standing in the ruins of Gallifrey only because it's the end of the universe and EVERYTHING is in ruins. The prophecy was vague, unhelpful, and had little relevancy beyond finally forcing the Doctor to face up to just how far he was willing to go to maintain his companionship with Clara, as well as just how reckless and dangerous she had become in her own life. And the Doctor knew it all along even if he didn't want to admit it, because he made a point of taking a neural-block with him from Gallifrey. Designed to wipe a mind more efficiently than his telepathic job on Donna Noble back in series 4, it's the Doctor's first tacit acknowledgement that their relationship can't continue... but he's still stubbornly decided that this doesn't mean she has to die. He can live without her so long as he knows she is okay, and he rather patronizingly assumes (as I'm sure many viewers did too) that she would be the one who would need to forget. Even when he finally comes right out and admits it, he does so to Me instead of Clara, who has been left inside of the TARDIS, and it makes a ton of assumptions that again I think most viewers would have just nodded along with - he is making the decision for her, he is deciding that SHE must forget, he is essentially running her life for her and treating her like something to be handled rather than somebody who gets a say in her own life, death and future (or lack thereof). And the way Clara refuses to just sit back and be a passive observer to her own life is one of the absolute best things about this episode. Clara posted:Nobody's ever safe. I've never asked you for that, ever. These have been the best years of my life, and they are mine. Tomorrow is promised to no one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It's mine. Because Clara listens in on the Doctor's conversation with Me, and she doesn't like what she hears. Her initial reaction is a childish one, she attempts to do to him what he was going to do to her and uses his Sonic Shades to "reverse the polarity" so it'll wipe his memories of her instead. But when he returns, she rejects the either/or situation of "One of us has to go" and instead forces them both to come at the problem openly, as equals. She reveals that she overheard him, that she hosed with the neural-block, and the two of them decide together to roll the dice and see what happens. They acknowledge the toxic nature of their co-dependent relationship, that if left untouched both of them would eventually try to get back together as a team again and drat the consequences, and so as equal partners they use the neural-block and accept that one of them has to go, but neither one has the right to dictate to the other who that will be. When the 10th Doctor did this to Donna, she begged him not to but he persevered for her own good, to save her life by "killing" the person she had become. Clara is already dead, or forever a heartbeat away from it at least, but she won't let somebody else decide for her whether she should be saved or not. The neural-block works, and the Doctor realizes his own memories of her are going, and in a very touching scene he attempts to impart what wisdom he can, repeating a lesson that she taught him back in Day of the Doctor as well as responding to his own desperate and calculated actions throughout this episode - never be cruel or cowardly... but if you are, then make amends. He went too far, he broke his own rules, and he accepts that this is a necessity to save both of them. He wakes up in Nevada, and we come back to the start of the episode. The Clara-shaped hole in his memories is easily filled in, but it lacks the emotional context it once had. He is able to piece together in his head memories of who she was, the adventures they had, how he felt about her... but it is an intellectual recollection. He can't remember what she looked like, and though he happily insists to the waitress that he'd know her if he saw her, this is quite obviously not the case. There's a really sad (and beautiful, like Me said) moment where it is revealed that the diner is the same one he met Amy, Rory and River in back in The Impossible Astronaut. He mumbles to himself that he's sure he came here with Clara, then shakes his head as he remembers it was Amy and Rory, not Clara. Clara stands behind him, holding back tears, and there's a sense of being at the bedside of a elderly family member whose memory is fading. Because she met him here wanting to see that he would be alright, and he will be... but he's forgotten her. He remembers all their adventures together, he remembers there was a Clara... but he doesn't remember HER. It's a very affecting moment, the slightly bewildered old man and the young woman who loves him very much but knows they will not be together anymore. She leaves, revealing the diner (which he recalls was on the other side of the hill before) is actually the freshly stolen TARDIS from Gallifrey. Piloted by Me, who even with her billions of years of experience/competence is still struggling to master it, the two set off to return Clara to Gallifrey so she can be restored to her timeline and die as she knows she must. Me has finally gotten access to the time machine she wanted and been saved from death once again, and the opening up of a universe of new experiences has given a spark back to a woman who must have seen and done everything as she slowly made her way to the end of time the first time around. So it's no surprise that she can't help but smile and agree to Clara's suggestion that they take another leaf out of the Doctor's book - yes she has to return to her own timeline to die.... but if she's frozen in time, ageless and without a heartbeat.... can't they go back the long way around? So ends Clara's time on the show, and I can't help but think it was an extremely well-handled exit. After her rather compressed time with the 11th Doctor left her without a solid character of her own, she really came into her own in Day of the Doctor and with her unexpected but welcome chemistry with Peter Capaldi. She refused to take a backseat but it is to the credit of the show that while she displayed a remarkable ability to emulate the Doctor's take-charge style she was reckless in a way that only he could get away with (both because of his alien physiology/intellect as well as the fact he's the titular character) and it was always destined to end with her death. That she was able to face that death bravely, and then to return and force the Doctor to treat her as an equal when deciding HER fate makes this one of the stronger companion exits the show has done (Donna's is excellent for the opposite reason, as it is so tragic), perhaps the best since Romana left the 4th Doctor behind to remain in E-Space or Tegan ripped the 5th Doctor a new one and stormed out of his life.  And as for Capaldi himself? His performance was just as good as hers, the two formed a great double act. Seeing him progress throughout this episode from silent rebel to desperate savior to acknowledging he'd gone too far to accepting that he couldn't just make decisions on Clara's behalf was a real treat. He could realistically play calculating chessmaster before becoming a baffled old man losing his memory, and there is something tremendously sweet about how Clara's final message to him essentially argues,"Put series 9 behind you and go back to series 8" - the glasses go, the hoodie and long coat are replaced by a return of the "magician" outfit and a new sonic screwdriver (though I hope the guitar remains). Clara has left, the Doctor is alone, but the break was mutual and understood to be for the best, and the promise at the end of this episode seems to be that we're not going to get a brooding Doctor bitter and upset about being alone, but a hopeful and happy one looking forward to a future that is uncertain even for him. More importantly than that though is that after smashing through that wall with HOME written on it, after returning to the barn from his childhood, after being made President by his own people once again on his home planet of Gallifrey... it isn't until the Doctor is back on Earth in Nevada that he truly comes home.   A really, really beautiful episode. Hell Bent is a really good episode in a lot of ways, and a not so good one in others. It features great performances by Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman, wraps up their characters time together strongly, and has very interesting things to say about the nature of that relationship. It's gorgeous looking episode and well directed, but it crams just a bit too much in and the first half feels almost extraneous before we get down to the intimate nitty-gritty and it gets better. Series 9 as a whole suffered from trying to run an undercurrent of "this relationship is loving things up for everybody" without having a strong enough surface level season-arc. So when that surface level season-arc gets tossed aside halfway through the episode, it at best makes the viewer go,"Meh" and at worst makes them go,"So you just wasted our time with that Hybrid bullshit?" - Hell Bent reflects everything good about series 9 but also everything bad, though I think as time goes by less and less people will remember the stuff on Gallifrey or the return (and exile) of Rassilon and more and more will remember that great scene in the classic console room where the Doctor and Clara say their goodbyes. http://i.imgur.com/SuxgD9P.gifv I for one will miss her.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:31
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Blink is at least a good stand alone episode, whereas Heaven Sent doesn't really work unless you know who Clara is. Eh, if you've seen series one you get the significance of the companion to the doctor, and Clara herself is basically "rose (at least the Rose that exists in Series One) but competent and obsessed with being over kissing the Doctor" I think it more or less works stand alone, if all you're concerned about is showing somebody a good hour of sci fi. You don't have to even explain that Clara died since the whole episode is one long grief analogy.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:37
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Also @jeru: I find it interesting that although we intellectually disagree on the accomplishments or failures of a specific episode very often (zygon inversion is way worse than invasion you monster!), and approach the material from exact opposite perspectives - you from like thirty years of who fandom and me from like barely two, with a significant portion of that being intellectual curiosity over genuine appreciation - we end up in exact lockstep on why hell bent wasn't very good.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:45
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