Doctor Who: "I've finally run out of corridor...there's a life summed up."

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Which non-Power of the Daleks story would you like to see an episode found from? This poll is closed.
Marco Polo	36	20.69%
The Myth Makers	10	5.75%
The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve	45	25.86%
The Savages	2	1.15%
The Smugglers	2	1.15%
The Highlanders	45	25.86%
The Macra Terror	21	12.07%
Fury from the Deep	13	7.47%
Total:	174 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

CaptainYesterday posted:

The Space Pirates only has one episode surviving, how would you know if it's middling?

Pros: It has Josef Stalin in it
Cons: It has Josef Stalin in it

Seems fairly balanced to me

Jerusalem posted:

What I love about English is that every so often you see a combination of words that have never been put together in that order before. Like the post I just quoted.

I liked the Target novelisation of it when I was young

# ? Apr 29, 2016 09:18

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:42

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

Nightmare of Eden is a 1988 McCoy story ten years early; there are some really good bits, and some really embarrassingly terrible bits.

# ? Apr 29, 2016 13:50

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

The Doctor's utter disgust towards the drug dealer at the end when they try to justify/qualify their actions is the only good bit I can remember, the rest I just recall being aggressively mediocre or appallingly bad - the monsters were the loving worst, even at the time it was made they looked awful (and not in a charming way!)

# ? Apr 29, 2016 13:57

pinacotheca: Oct 19, 2012; Events cast shadows before them, but the huger shadows creep over us unseen.

Nightmare of Eden itself isn't great, but Lewis Fiander's bizarre Germanic accent is genuinely compelling television.

# ? Apr 29, 2016 14:13

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

pinacotheca posted:

Nightmare of Eden itself isn't great, but Lewis Fiander's bizarre Germanic accent is genuinely compelling television.

The Doctor walking in on the two captains arguing and watching as if it's a match at Wimbledon is awesome. And I loved the concept of the Continual Event Transmuter

# ? Apr 29, 2016 14:17

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

It's as lightweight as a box of fluffy ducks, but fine if you treat it as a farce on itself. You wouldn't like the show to be like that every year, but once in 50 is fine.

# ? Apr 29, 2016 14:19

pinacotheca: Oct 19, 2012; Events cast shadows before them, but the huger shadows creep over us unseen.

Davros1 posted:

The Doctor walking in on the two captains arguing and watching as if it's a match at Wimbledon is awesome. And I loved the concept of the Continual Event Transmuter

Yeah, it has some good bits in it: the basic idea of two spaceships colliding/fusing into each other as one comes out of hyperspace is neat, David Daker's always good value for money and I do love the cliffhanger where Tom and Lalla escape by leaping into the projector, for example.

I think I like it more than either The Creature from the Pit or The Horns of Nimon, but not quite as much as Destiny of the Daleks.

(I don't actually like Destiny of the Daleks that much either, but who does?)

# ? Apr 29, 2016 14:40

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

pinacotheca posted:

Yeah, it has some good bits in it: the basic idea of two spaceships colliding/fusing into each other as one comes out of hyperspace is neat, David Daker's always good value for money and I do love the cliffhanger where Tom and Lalla escape by leaping into the projector, for example.

I think I like it more than either The Creature from the Pit or The Horns of Nimon, but not quite as much as Destiny of the Daleks.

(I don't actually like Destiny of the Daleks that much either, but who does?)

Heh, Destiny was the first episode of Who I watched and it made me a fan.

# ? Apr 29, 2016 14:44

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

It's also pretty bad, even on its own merits (ie ignoring that the daleks aren't robots)

# ? Apr 29, 2016 15:16

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Nightmare of Eden was my first episode, so I like it for that reason.

# ? Apr 29, 2016 15:17

Picklepuss: Jul 12, 2002

pinacotheca posted:

Nightmare of Eden itself isn't great, but Lewis Fiander's bizarre Germanic accent is genuinely compelling television.

I loved that story and this exchange in particular.

ROMANA: How many were on your ship?
TRYST: Ah, well, to begin with there was ten, but we lost one.
ROMANA: How?
TRYST: He died.
ROMANA: How did he die?
TRYST: He died!

# ? Apr 29, 2016 16:05

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

MrL_JaKiri posted:

It's also pretty bad, even on its own merits (ie ignoring that the daleks aren't robots)

Destiny is the principal reason I wonder if Terry Nation even watched Genesis, let alone wrote it.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 01:06

Murderion: Oct 4, 2009; 2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Organza Quiz posted:

My vote for most middling is the pirate episode from season 6.

I was looking down a list of episodes to rewatch recently, and The Curse of the Black Spot is the only one I can't even remember anything from. Like there's a pirate ship, Kovarian showing up in a window being all ooooOOOOooooOOOO spooky, something something aliens, and that's it. I just thought "eh" when I read the name, wasn't even curious.

42 at least had a few cool premises that kept it trundling along.

Murderion fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Apr 30, 2016

# ? Apr 30, 2016 01:40

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Short Synopsis: The Doctor gets it wrong, Tamsin gets to act, and the last line changes everything.

Long Synopsis: In the year 1006, the Doctor and Tamsin find themselves in the middle of the mystery of the disappearance of the Book of Kells, and everything is most definitely not what it seems.

What's Good:

The theme of Deception. This has been a running thing throughout the season so far, and this episode continues that theme. Lucie discovered the deception regarding her Auntie Pam, the Doctor played into the role of the time traveler seeking a new companion through a want ad, the applicants all lied about who they are, the prosecutor lied about their part in the great genocide etc. In this story, everybody is lying or misleading or covering something up - Tamsin "acts" and takes on the role of a visiting nun, Lucianus and the Abbot are lying about the nature of their relationship, Olaf and the Librarian present the impression of being conspiratorial thieves, even the value of the very real Book of Kells is misrepresented. Slowly, over the course of the story each of these deceptions is peeled away, as we learn more and more about what is going on, who is really on whose side, who is to blame for various crimes or affronts. But then of course the issue is resolved via another deception, and even that isn't the end of things when the final line of the story reveals one final deception that completely changes the context of EVERYTHING in the story. Suddenly the actions and reactions of one character in particular make perfect sense. It completely changes up how I viewed them, how they acted, suddenly inappropriate lines make perfect sense, what I felt was poor characterization just clicks. It's an amazing change-up just from one line and it turns what was a good story into a pretty drat great one.
Tamsin. After not really having a grasp on exactly who her character is supposed to be, it's ironically when she pretends to be somebody else that she really comes into her own. Abandoned at the door of a monastery in 1006 by the Doctor with nothing but a casual comment of,"Improvise!" to go with, Tamsin jumps right into the mix with a nervous but earnest performance as she not only tries to take on the role of a visiting nun but also figure out exactly what she can say without giving away future knowledge. Her careful tiptoeing mixing with her enthusiastic pursuit of leads when she thinks she is getting close to a subject are extremely endearing. It's her outburst and seemingly impetuous move at the end of the story which really does it though, as she proves to be more onto things than the Doctor gives her credit for, outsmarting everybody with a carefully played deception of her own. Even though the stories for this season were written out of order, it does feel like we've reached a point where Tamsin is finally an established character.
The origin of the bad guy's name. When the Doctor exposes the meaning behind the bad guy's name....

What's Not:

Lucianus. Even allowing for some of the revelations that come throughout the story, Lucianus is too anachronistic a character, too blase about what is going on, utterly inappropriate when it comes to the things he says and does. He stands out like dog's balls, and he's a frustrating and aggravating character. Even allowing for the (pretty goddamn amazing) final line reveal that throws it all into context, it only makes the character understandable on a second listen, and doesn't change the frustration of a first listen-through.
Continuity-heavy. Sure it doesn't bother me at all (In fact I like it!) and probably not the majority of Big Finish listeners who are well-versed in Doctor Who's past, but this story relies a LOT on references to old (very old!) episodes of Doctor Who, including one almost completely missing serial. Still though, the reveals are fun, particularly in how the Doctor responds/deals with them (more than once, as he botches it at least a couple of times!), and it is certainly a nice change of pace to bring back an old (and notable) character who is NOT one of the usual suspects of recurring characters (as fun as those are). But I can see it being easy for a new listener to be completely confused as to who this person is, and the Doctor's detailed explanation of their past encounters feels more like an exposition dump than a natural piece of dialogue.
Wasted cast. There are a couple of high profile names in the supporting cast, and though one is used very well, the other is there purely as a red herring and it is a bit of a waste. At least his voice is liquid butter

Final Thoughts:

The Book of Kells can be a frustrating story, albeit a very funny one. It's continuity-heavy, features some head-scratching characters and dialogue (on a first listen anyway), and wastes a tremendous supporting castmember (and making great use of another).... butttttttt, holy crap that final line. Getting to the end of it, I thought this was a fun audio and a nice building of Tamsin's character.... but then that final line. It's incredible, suddenly throwing everything into a new context, changing my perception of everything that happened up to that point in the story AND the season. It's a game-changer, potentially setting an entirely new direction/angle for the season to continue on - suddenly the question isn't so much "what big universe ending threat are they building up to this time?" as it is the far more interesting,"What the hell is going on with character <x>?" Written by Barnaby Edwards whose work is usually solid if unspectacular, this is the best story of the season so far.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 10:49 on May 1, 2016

# ? May 1, 2016 10:47

Fil5000: Jun 23, 2003; HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

I thought that season of 8DAs was really solid. And yeah, those supporting actors are great but honestly you could give me any amount of those two and I'd be disappointed there wasn't more of them.

# ? May 1, 2016 11:35

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

DoctorWhat you really need to report to the Homestuck thread

# ? May 1, 2016 21:07

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

I got kicked out of my aunt's house two weeks ago and only today got a place.

# ? May 1, 2016 23:52

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

DoctorWhat posted:

I got kicked out of my aunt's house two weeks ago and only today got a place.

No, no man

This is a good thing that will make you laugh

Also sorry to hear about that.

# ? May 1, 2016 23:57

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

DoctorWhat posted:

I got kicked out of my aunt's house two weeks ago and only today got a place.

What happened?

# ? May 2, 2016 01:31

IceAgeComing: Jan 29, 2013; pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

the government are hinting at some changes they might propose to the BBC charter that might effect Doctor Who - basically amending the charter so that the BBC have to "take account" of the commercial stations when scheduling which might effectively lead to them not putting popular programmes on on Saturday evenings. The arguing over scheduling thing isn't the worst part about this with the iplayer and similar things making traditional TV scheduling increasingly obsolete; its just another example of Tory meddling in the running of what is supposed to be an independent public broadcaster and it could one day lead to them trying to limit the programmes that the BBC are allowed to make.

# ? May 2, 2016 02:25

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Just leave the BBC alone goddammit :mad:

# ? May 2, 2016 02:33

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

Rhyno posted:

What happened?

my mom, my dog, and I were used as a scapegoat for my aunt's terrible parenting of my 15-year-old cousin

we were living in my aunt's house

we aren't anymore

the new place is nice tho but the past two weeks have been kind of... liminal

# ? May 2, 2016 02:38

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

DoctorWhat posted:

my mom, my dog, and I were used as a scapegoat for my aunt's terrible parenting of my 15-year-old cousin

we were living in my aunt's house

we aren't anymore

the new place is nice tho but the past two weeks have been kind of... liminal

That sucks man, hope it's all past you!

# ? May 2, 2016 02:58

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

Rhyno posted:

That sucks man, hope it's all past you!

I'm feeling swell actually, it's nice to have a real home again.

# ? May 2, 2016 03:00

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

DoctorWhat posted:

I'm feeling swell actually, it's nice to have a real home again.

I'm just going to leave this here

ThaumPenguin posted:

Do you ever feel like you're actively making a poor decision, and then just keep on doing it?

Okay bye and I'm glad you're out of that lovely situation and hope things get better from here

# ? May 2, 2016 03:06

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

Sorry to hear about that, DWhat. Watch some 6 dvds and pop Jubilee into your portable cd player. Kids still have those, right?

# ? May 2, 2016 08:10

Stabbatical: Sep 15, 2011

Big Mean Jerk posted:

Sorry to hear about that, DWhat. Watch some 6 dvds and pop Jubilee into your portable cd player. Kids still have those, right?

I think they use something called an Empty Three nowadays.

# ? May 2, 2016 13:47

CobiWann: Oct 21, 2009; Have fun!

Someone in my office just asked me �What�s Doctor Who?�

You never realize just how WEIRD the show�s premise is until you try to actually explain it to someone.

# ? May 3, 2016 18:19

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

It's a pseudo-anthology science fiction programme where the title character is wherever the story the takes place because he can travel through time and space

# ? May 3, 2016 19:11

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

Doctor Who could be a part of RiffTrax' cinema shows this year, if BBC Insiders isn't just making things up.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:19

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

CaptainYesterday posted:

Doctor Who could be a part of RiffTrax' cinema shows this year, if BBC Insiders isn't just making things up.

The Peter Cushing films or are they doing what they did with Lost and riffing on episodes?

# ? May 3, 2016 22:21

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Chibnall might be bringing in a writers' room for his tenure.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:32

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

Burkion posted:

The Peter Cushing films or are they doing what they did with Lost and riffing on episodes?

Episodes.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:33

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

The_Doctor posted:

Chibnall might be bringing in a writers' room for his tenure.

That might be a good approach, though I thought the show already had a writers' room. I have obviously misunderstood exactly what it entails. Can anyone enlighten me?

# ? May 3, 2016 22:35

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

The_Doctor posted:

Chibnall might be bringing in a writers' room for his tenure.

Oh please mean he's not going to do most of the writing pretty please

# ? May 3, 2016 22:37

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Wheat Loaf posted:

That might be a good approach, though I thought the show already had a writers' room. I have obviously misunderstood exactly what it entails. Can anyone enlighten me?

More the American style writers room, where there are several writers who all contribute to stories. One will come up with the idea and then others throw in ideas and help out. Writing becomes a more communal affair.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:49

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Wheat Loaf posted:

That might be a good approach, though I thought the show already had a writers' room. I have obviously misunderstood exactly what it entails. Can anyone enlighten me?

In addition to what others have said, it would also entail any number of writers being kept on as full-time staff, as opposed to the freelance / work-for-hire arrangements that the program has traditionally operated with. It's certainly not a bad idea, but it may be difficult given the financial cuts that have been implemented by the BBC over the last few years.

# ? May 3, 2016 22:58

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

It's an interesting take on things, who knows how it will work on a show like Who - I imagine it will probably lead to a leveling out of the quality which will mean we probably won't get the terrible lows but also maybe we risk losing the amazing highs.

No way of knowing until it happens, of course.

# ? May 3, 2016 23:09

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

I see. I was under the impression that they already had something like that, but I'm not sure why I thought that.

# ? May 3, 2016 23:28

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 14:42

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Wheat Loaf posted:

I see. I was under the impression that they already had something like that, but I'm not sure why I thought that.

Do you read Toxx's thread? He had a big long review mostly about the mechanics of writing a TV programme... within the American writing room idiom, which made the whole thing completely irrelevant.

# ? May 3, 2016 23:40

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who: "I've finally run out of corridor...there's a life summed up."

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