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Rondino
Mar 5, 2008
I think I saw a graph somewhere that implied anime has been diversifying its revenue lately, but the disc sales are the only real numbers the general public has access to. And yeah, each individual disk is ~$60 and only has two episodes on it, so they add up.

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Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

i don't have any numbers for 2015, but in 2014 the market value of the industry grew with 10%. blu rays aren't very important, just like in the west

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

Darth Walrus posted:

A significant portion of the anime industry depends on selling to a tiny audience with astronomically deep pockets. Yes, it is a strange and alarming way to do business that can end up massively distorting the product and narrowing its appeal, why do you ask?

I foresee a future in which anime is everywhere, except Japan, where the only way of getting it is buying one of 10 Blu-Ray discs (which are all bought by the same 3 guys)...
Are online subscriptions even as big a deal there? Seriously sounds like the way to go, because outside of merch, books & stuff, that does NOT sound healthy for any kind of industry (...which explains almost everything). At least with subscriptions + viewer statistics, you'd have more useful numbers than whatever this hideously mutated Blu-Ray market delivers...

Anime economy

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

stop this nonsense doomsaying

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

this is like saying hollywood is dying because people aren't buying dvds any more

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Davincie posted:

i don't have any numbers for 2015, but in 2014 the market value of the industry grew with 10%. blu rays aren't very important, just like in the west

Anime is pretty diverse, and different sectors make money in different ways. How much of that number is mainstream kids' shows dragging the insular, ultra-niche otaku bait along with them? Because I hear that the kodomo demographic (as opposed to shonen, shoujo, seinen, and josei) is making bank in a way that massively eclipses anything Western adult fans bother paying attention to.

Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 31, 2016

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

Davincie posted:

this is like saying hollywood is dying because people aren't buying dvds any more

Who said anything about dying, I said anime's going to be everywhere except Japan, no? :v:

I'm kidding

Seriously, tho, how's streaming/subscriptions or what not in Japan? Seems to me that's the future of the business, I'd be much more interested in numbers about that.

Kild
Apr 24, 2010

Torquemadras posted:

...the gently caress?

Is... is it just me, or is that an astronomically low number? And that's kind of industry standard? Do they make their money almost entirely through related products and licensing, and stopped giving a poo poo for this market? How the hell is that anywhere near sustainable?

How :psyduck:

its like $200 for a single disc and its japan only sales

VoLaTiLe
Oct 21, 2010

He's Behind you
Just watched this series it was really decent

after the priest died I totally thought, Mary, Renji and the Thief were going to kick the bucket at their respective parts

It kept the story tense and the action scenes were also spot on

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

Torquemadras posted:

Who said anything about dying, I said anime's going to be everywhere except Japan, no? :v:

I'm kidding

Seriously, tho, how's streaming/subscriptions or what not in Japan? Seems to me that's the future of the business, I'd be much more interested in numbers about that.

hulu, netflix, niconicodouga some other streaming sites i probably don't know of. they aren't' fantastic or anything, 90% of people just record anime and watch it the next day. there's also a fairly large second-hand market or just renting dvd's




i don't have exact information for demographics, but i can tell you that what is most popular for people to watch on tv generally isn't even remotely popular here. this article is very outdated of course, but it should give a general impression

https://aquabluesweater.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/japanese-rating/


but honestly merch makes a lot of money and blu ray sales aren't that awful, for example not even all the osomatsu volumes are out and it's already in the top 3 best selling anime ever. you also have to keep in mind that anime is a hit based industry, far from every show makes money but those that do make a ton of money make enough money to pay for the rest of them

here's a website that tracks dvd/blu ray sales
http://www.someanithing.com/

obviously it doesn't have merch, because that's impossible to track.

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012

Marathoned this after hearing about it in the konosuba thread. It really made me want a Etrian odyssey anime though.



I'm kind of disappointed dark Knights are actual things . I thought ranta was just being scammed since none of his supposed abilities showed up until the end

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Yeah, as cute as the demon thing was, it would have been funnier if he never got any actual magical powers for his class.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

One somewhat minor change (that wasn't really much better or worse than in the LN) I noticed after watching the last episode is that in the show the "line" shows up in the middle of him fighting Deathspot and he does a fancy maneuver around him with it to kill him. In the LN, Deathspot throws him off and, instead of finishing him off, starts to run after the party, causing Haruhiro to realize that everything he did might have been in vain. The line then appears and it's just a normal line that results in him stabbing Deathspot in the back and hitting some vital organ. The only reasons I slightly like the LN version more are that the "Deathspot is smart enough to put off Haruhiro for later and not fall for his distraction" element was kind of cool, and part of the reason Haruhiro was able to kill Deathpatch with the "line" is that Deathpatch was running after the party at the time and probably wasn't expecting Haruhiro to be able to chase after him.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

here's some graphs for anime industry profit, relating to the earlier conversation
http://imgur.com/a/PmUFR

note that it includes all animation released in japan (so also disney) so look at it more as a general trend indicator rather than hard numbers

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib
Gonna interrupt this derail on the inner workings of anime finance to give my thoughts on this show. Thought it was great and i hope they make more. It wasnt perfect but the good definitely out weighed the bad and it ends greater than the sum of its parts.

Pros
The fights were great, messy and with lots of character beats and felt like each one changed the characters in some way.

The backgrounds with the water color style sold the setting and really gave off the rpg feel

The enemies that we saw were cool. I liked the gobbos especially

Some people have said the LN are not slice of life but if the anime keeps this kind of pace Im all for it. I liked the group just chilling or grieving and reflecting on the horrors of murdering gobs.

All the weird animals. That's definitely not a cat. Fat frog. Pig things.

Cons
More animation budget please. The finale was like half good half laughable. I don't care about budget saving episodes but you can't have the final fight told in stillz with filter effects.

I could do without the weird sexualization stuff. I know its anime so ill just have to grin and bear it but like lingering on butts and the thief guild leaders outfit/body is loving ridiculous. Also they live in a dnd fantasy world how is thief masters bush not froing out of her v neck boy shorts.

The mage is the worst cliche anime lady character loving whispery no confidence moe piece of poo poo. annoying. Fight me. yume/mary supremacy.

Could do with less ranta. I like that his demon told him to kill himself.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Another con

This is <character name>'s new ability <ability name>. It does X. Over and over and over. It get why, but there was just too much of it and felt kinda awkward.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

Jerkface posted:

Pros
(...)

All the weird animals. That's definitely not a cat. Fat frog. Pig things.

Cons
(...)

You'll be pleased to hear, then, that the fat frog is real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxn56l9WcU

I totally agree with your points, BTW :toot: Really chill show with absolutely excellent action scenes. But the final "fight" was underwhelming and kinda colors my impressions of the overall season negatively, like you said.

I kinda like Ranta, tho. He's a total unrepentant stupid jerkface and I like watching him needlessly antagonize

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

i like the little theme they had going that ranta is very much an rear end in a top hat but he's still trying his best to contribute to the group, just in a way less buddy-buddy fashion. things like how he didn't chip in a single copper for moguzo's helmet, but did haggle the price down to below 50% of its original price or some bullshit.

i thought it was interesting that after all the friction between him and ranta, the haruhiro told ranta to lead the group when he thought he was going to die, the same way manato told haruhiro to lead. i wish they had expanded on that a little bit more instead of it coming kind of out of the blue, but it was a nice way of showing that ranta had earned some bit of respect

ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Apr 13, 2016

Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord
Yeah, I'm glad they showed that he does care about his friends, even if he has to be dragged kicking and screaming into admitting it. And that they didn't run too hard into his pervy-ness

Arkeus
Jul 21, 2013

ninjewtsu posted:


i thought it was interesting that after all the friction between him and ranta, the haruhiro told ranta to lead the group when he thought he was going to die, the same way manato told haruhiro to lead. i wish they had expanded on that a little bit more instead of it coming kind of out of the blue, but it was a nice way of showing that ranta had earned some bit of respect
Honestly, this felt too much like "You are the man of the group now" (because Mozco is too passive), and I'm not a fan of that part.

darkgray
Dec 20, 2005

My best pose facing the morning sun!

Jerkface posted:

Cons
More animation budget please. The finale was like half good half laughable. I don't care about budget saving episodes but you can't have the final fight told in stillz with filter effects.

Apparently they screwed up their production schedule, so they couldn't finish the final episode battle in time, but a finished version aired on a different channel a few days later:


vs


I don't know which version the streaming services ended up with, though.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

Arkeus posted:

Honestly, this felt too much like "You are the man of the group now" (because Mozco is too passive), and I'm not a fan of that part.

if they were to get another leader it's probably be a contest between ranta, mary, and yume, so i dunno if it's really that no one else would fit the part so ranta gets in as "most able to make a decision." this is why i wish that bit was expanded on a little more, at least another line of internal dialogue to clarify it a bit. as is, i guess it's hard to say really.

darkgray posted:

Apparently they screwed up their production schedule, so they couldn't finish the final episode battle in time, but a finished version aired on a different channel a few days later:


vs


I don't know which version the streaming services ended up with, though.

oh, there's a better final episode floating around? that'd be cool to see

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012

Poil posted:

Another con

This is <character name>'s new ability <ability name>. It does X. Over and over and over. It get why, but there was just too much of it and felt kinda awkward.



I kinda liked this. It let's us know exactly what everybody can do and getting new poo poo is the backbone of RPGs.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

darkgray posted:

Apparently they screwed up their production schedule, so they couldn't finish the final episode battle in time, but a finished version aired on a different channel a few days later:


vs


I don't know which version the streaming services ended up with, though.

Version one.

Guess I'll have to look and see if someone's subbed it, or if the official version got fixed(unlikely).

darkgray
Dec 20, 2005

My best pose facing the morning sun!

a kitten posted:

Version one.

Guess I'll have to look and see if someone's subbed it, or if the official version got fixed(unlikely).

The finished episode is available in this batch torrent if you don't mind missing subtitles. Although I guess you could retime the HorribleSubs ones or something.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

ninjewtsu posted:

i like the little theme they had going that ranta is very much an rear end in a top hat but he's still trying his best to contribute to the group, just in a way less buddy-buddy fashion. things like how he didn't chip in a single copper for moguzo's helmet, but did haggle the price down to below 50% of its original price or some bullshit.

i thought it was interesting that after all the friction between him and ranta, the haruhiro told ranta to lead the group when he thought he was going to die, the same way manato told haruhiro to lead. i wish they had expanded on that a little bit more instead of it coming kind of out of the blue, but it was a nice way of showing that ranta had earned some bit of respect

The LN has also been a little bad about having Ranta's relationship with Haruhiro and the other party members progress after those events in the mines. Haruhiro honestly gets way too angry about a lot of stuff Ranta does. Recently in the LN translation Ranta slaps Haruhiro on the back (or head, forget) to get his attention, and Haruhiro thinks something like "Maybe I wouldn't mind if you disappeared entirely" and it just came off as hugely disproportionate to what Ranta did. Honestly, the only stuff Ranta really does anymore that is genuinely lovely is the sexual harassment. That being said, it is continually reinforced that Ranta is necessary as an advocate of continued progression and risky endeavors (in addition to apparently being a relatively competent Death Knight and have great synergy with Haruhiro in combat). There's a balance where Haruhiro always has the party's safety in mind and is there to ultimately vet any decisions, but Ranta is constantly pushing the party to do riskier/harder stuff. Without Ranta they'd probably just kill Goblins/Kobolds forever, but without Haruhiro they'd probably prematurely attempt something difficult and get killed.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Just intuitively, Yume would make a terrible leader and Mary would be double-traumatized if Haruhiro died, so Ranta does kind of make the most sense by default.

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib
I liked the 'new ability' spiels, because the tactics & strategies of the party is one of the other things I liked in the show. I liked that the fights were very real but grounded in easy to understand RPG lingo. Hal realizing that Manatee was basically off-tanking in addition to all his other stuff was a neat realization. Showing you the move once and explaining it a bit lets them then throw in all their moves during an extended fight and you can see how everything works together. It also works because once you see that move, then you can have the other characters contrast it like when mage lady learned that she could do more with her attack spell due to the zombie mage.

I honestly think the show could have even MORE planning & tactical stuff tbh. And I'd like to see more contrast with other parties in the world too.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

I didn't mind the new ability stuff, but I can see how someone could be annoyed by it. Maybe it'd be better if that was a little more spread out, instead of back to back to back "here is this dudes new ability, and this other dudes new ability, and this other new ability" in the same episode

Then again since they train for like a week it makes sense that they'd all do that at the same time instead of just being without half their party for a week occasionally

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc
I'd rather have more ability explanations and tactical stuff than more several minute long panning shots where literally nothing happens.

Ka0
Sep 16, 2002

:siren: :siren: :siren:
AS A PROUD GAMERGATER THE ONLY THING I HATE MORE THAN WOMEN ARE GAYS AND TRANS PEOPLE
:siren: :siren: :siren:
How about more Manato dialogues.

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005
Grimgar was best when it was chill and not much was happening.

Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord

Yes_Cantaloupe posted:

Grimgar was best when it was chill and not much was happening.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I want more dates between Haru and Mary.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Yes_Cantaloupe posted:

Grimgar was best when it was chill and not much was happening.

There's a difference between "chill and not much is happening" and "we're just going to pan over literally nothing happening while a song plays."

Knorth
Aug 19, 2014

Buglord

Piell posted:

There's a difference between "chill and not much is happening" and "we're just going to pan over literally nothing happening while a song plays."

Those parts were really good though

Yes_Cantaloupe
Feb 28, 2005

Piell posted:

There's a difference between "chill and not much is happening" and "we're just going to pan over literally nothing happening while a song plays."

The backgrounds were gorgeous, and I never really minded a chance to appreciate them while a nice song played.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k

Phobophilia posted:

I want more dates between Haru and Mary Yume.

I agree.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012

Phobophilia posted:

I want more dates between Haru and Mary his ghost boyfriend Manato.

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ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

I really liked both the intense action bits of grimgar and the bits where the characters chilled out in town while a song played

The song bits were a really cool way of fleshing out the characters without using dialogue and tbh if there's a second season I kinda hope the insert songs return

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