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Homework Explainer posted:let's not forget that any government acting against the interests of the united states, i.e. nationalizing its resources or daring — gasp — to elect a socialist leader, is gonna get hardcore imperial intervention, whether that's straight military invasion or the manufacture of a coup or uprising One of the least scrutinized aspects of Clinton's foreign policy bonafides, is how her State Department tripped over itself to support the coup government in Honduras.
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Jan 27, 2016 00:56
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GunnerJ posted:Someone said something to the effect of, "The food industry loads food up with sugar, fat, and salt at way unhealthy levels because that poo poo is literally addictive to our monkey brains when calibrated correctly and sells like crazy, so without a profit motive in food distribution there'd be more healthy food because this would not happen," and somehow this got interpreted as, "when we have banned the sale of Hot Pockets and anything that tastes like licorice, we will have achieved 60% of socialism, comrades!" Someone went farther than that, pretty much saying we're too stupid to choose what food we eat, and we eat too good of food while other people are starving etc. It was pretty easy to see where it was going.
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Jan 27, 2016 09:46
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Jewel Repetition posted:Someone went farther than that, pretty much saying we're too stupid to choose what food we eat, and we eat too good of food while other people are starving etc. It was pretty easy to see where it was going. You're confusing multiple messages. The point that transfer payments won't address the issue of literally addictive foods and the cultivation of poor eating habits still stands. From a public health perspective, we might as well treat junk food the same way we treat cigarettes. It's not an issue of who is or isn't stupid, it completely rewires your priorities and preferences.
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Jan 27, 2016 10:34
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Jewel Repetition posted:Someone went farther than that, pretty much saying we're too stupid to choose what food we eat, and we eat too good of food while other people are starving etc. It was pretty easy to see where it was going. I don't quite remember anyone saying that "we're too stupid to choose what food we eat," but I remember someone pointing out to you that your choices are already limited to what is available on the market, which wasn't meant to imply that there are few choices on the market but that the economic system in place already "chooses for you" what is available to eat. Given this, it makes little sense to complain that a different economic system would offer different but limited choices. And I thought it was easy to see where this was going, too, but I didn't see it inevitably going to anti-junk-food dictats outlawing ice cream or whatever, so 
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Jan 27, 2016 14:22
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A socialist economy would probably produce less luxury goods and have shorter operating hours for services in general, but on the other hand everyone gets drastically more leisure time so whatever, deal with it. It's important! But it's definitely not the most important thing where all this is concerned. For that see the platform and organizing elements relating to, for instance, racial justice or anti-imperialism.
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Jan 27, 2016 17:08
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Homework Explainer posted:let's not forget that any government acting against the interests of the united states, i.e. nationalizing its resources or daring — gasp — to elect a socialist leader, is gonna get hardcore imperial intervention, whether that's straight military invasion or the manufacture of a coup or uprising It's a pretty nice change of pace.
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Jan 27, 2016 18:08
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:A socialist economy would probably produce less luxury goods and have shorter operating hours for services in general, but on the other hand everyone gets drastically more leisure time so whatever, deal with it. It's important! But it's definitely not the most important thing where all this is concerned. For that see the platform and organizing elements relating to, for instance, racial justice or anti-imperialism. I don''t give a gently caress about luxury goods, but if I have to give up pizza as a precondition of socialism then I'd rather live in a neoliberal paradise. where did this self-denying spiritualistic philosophy of ascetism start with some socialists? Late 19th c. Russian revolutionaries like the Men of the 60s and 80s? Marxism is like the most materialistic philosophy ever its entirely based around material goods.
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Jan 27, 2016 18:40
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no obviously under socialism you can only eat triscuits and drink only room temperature tap water, all other sustenance is forbidden on pain of death. thats definitely whats being proposed and talked about.
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Jan 27, 2016 21:15
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The Saurus posted:I don''t give a gently caress about luxury goods, but if I have to give up pizza as a precondition of socialism then I'd rather live in a neoliberal paradise. pizza is forever friend
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Jan 27, 2016 21:16
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fade5 posted:We seem to have changed that policy a bit, we're backing the socialists in Syria militarily now. we're still desperately trying new avenues to get assad out, though, when that would be an incredibly stupid move. and we're trying to have it both ways with the pkk and turkey, which is a bummer. this follows our campaign of arming and training fsa personnel who "incredibly" joined islamist militias. i will agree this foreign policy is at least a little bit different, though still imperialist
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Jan 27, 2016 23:03
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The Saurus posted:I don''t give a gently caress about luxury goods, but if I have to give up pizza as a precondition of socialism then I'd rather live in a neoliberal paradise. I have good news, friend. Under socialism you will be able to keep all your pizzas and other personal property.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:09
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The Kingfish posted:I have good news, friend. Under socialism you will be able to keep all your pizzas and other personal property. okay but what about when i eat those pizzas? am i allowed to just get more pizza as i please or will the state step in and ration them?
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Jan 27, 2016 23:18
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from each according to his pizza making ability, to each according to their pizza eating needs
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Jan 27, 2016 23:28
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:from each according to his pizza making ability, to each according to their pizza eating needs Does he think pots and pans will be banned? If you have wheat, salt, yeast, tomatoes, cheese, water, olive oil, and heat, you can make delicious pizza at home. Seriously, pizza is gonna be with humanity forever, it'll never be uninvented. Even if, in the glorious communist revolution, everybody got to leave their soul-sucking jobs tomorrow, there would STILL be pizza ovens in the world. They don't disintegrate, there just won't be low-paid people to operate them by your tummy's whims. Because there's no private property, you just walk to the former Dominos and use their ovens, and they don't call the cops to arrest you. If I can't make my own pizza, it's not my revolution Mofabio fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 23:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:From a public health perspective, we might as well treat junk food the same way we treat cigarettes. You mean put warning labels on them? Like we already federally do with nutrition information and ingredients? GunnerJ posted:I don't quite remember anyone saying that "we're too stupid to choose what food we eat," but I remember someone pointing out to you that your choices are already limited to what is available on the market, which wasn't meant to imply that there are few choices on the market but that the economic system in place already "chooses for you" what is available to eat. Given this, it makes little sense to complain that a different economic system would offer different but limited choices. Pretty much everything is on the market. That's not a real comparison. DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:For that see the platform and organizing elements relating to, for instance, racial justice or anti-imperialism. Racial justice and anti-imperialism are good. Socialism isn't. Homework Explainer posted:let's not forget that any government acting against the interests of the united states, i.e. nationalizing its resources or daring — gasp — to elect a socialist leader, is gonna get hardcore imperial intervention, whether that's straight military invasion or the manufacture of a coup or uprising That only happened when communism was a real threat to us. Now we're gradually improving relations with Cuba, trading with "communist" China, leaving the DPRK to their own devices unless they try to nuke us, and actively supporting Syrian socialists. The Saurus posted:I don''t give a gently caress about luxury goods, but if I have to give up pizza as a precondition of socialism then I'd rather live in a neoliberal paradise. See? I told you.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:32
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The Saurus posted:okay but what about when i eat those pizzas? am i allowed to just get more pizza as i please or will the state step in and ration them? all the money you save on health care you can spend on pizza
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Jan 28, 2016 00:33
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Mofabio posted:Does he think pots and pans will be banned? If you have wheat, salt, yeast, tomatoes, cheese, water, olive oil, and heat, you can make delicious pizza at home. Seriously, pizza is gonna be with humanity forever, it'll never be uninvented. They sure as hell didn't have all those ingredients in the USSR. Mofabio posted:Even if, in the glorious communist revolution, everybody got to leave their soul-sucking jobs tomorrow, there would STILL be pizza ovens in the world. They don't disintegrate, there just won't be low-paid people to operate them by your tummy's whims. Because there's no private property, you just walk to the former Dominos and use their ovens, and they don't call the cops to arrest you. That's your vision of a sustainable future huh?
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Jan 28, 2016 00:33
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Loling at the fact that no one is using this thread for what it was made for because the PSL is awful
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Jan 28, 2016 00:39
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Jewel Repetition posted:That only happened when communism was a real threat to us. Now we're gradually improving relations with Cuba, trading with "communist" China, leaving the DPRK to their own devices unless they try to nuke us, and actively supporting Syrian socialists. honduras, libya, syria, iraq, afghanistan, ukraine, montenegro, haiti, venezuela, iran, have all had coup attempts, invasions or destabilization campaigns leveled at them post-collapse of the soviet union. i'm probably forgetting some!!! Mofabio posted:Even if, in the glorious communist revolution, everybody got to leave their soul-sucking jobs tomorrow, there would STILL be pizza ovens in the world. They don't disintegrate, there just won't be low-paid people to operate them by your tummy's whims. Because there's no private property, you just walk to the former Dominos and use their ovens, and they don't call the cops to arrest you. some people itt have weird ideas about how actually existing socialism works
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Jan 28, 2016 00:39
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SirKibbles posted:Loling at the fact that no one is using this thread for what it was made for because the PSL is awful
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Jan 28, 2016 00:42
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SirKibbles posted:Loling at the fact that no one is using this thread for what it was made for because the PSL is awful no it turned into the usual rolling out of the anticom arguments just like any time actually existing socialism is brought up itf. the psl is fine though the leadership is pretty stodgy and set in its ways
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Jan 28, 2016 00:44
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Homework Explainer posted:no it turned into the usual rolling out of the anticom arguments just like any time actually existing socialism is brought up itf. the psl is fine though the leadership is pretty stodgy and set in its ways stody and set in it's way are really really bad for leadership and like 50% of the reason why there are like 200 leftist group instead of like 3 (anarchists,revolutionaries,reformist)
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Jan 28, 2016 00:48
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Homework Explainer posted:some people itt have weird ideas about how actually existing socialism works The most socialist economies I'm aware of are the DPRK, a hellhole, and Cuba, one of the most corrupt places on Earth. Is that what you're referring to?
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Jan 28, 2016 00:51
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Homework Explainer posted:the psl is fine If you ignore that their ideas are untenable, their membership is tiny, and their name itself tells you it's bullshit, then yes.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:55
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what is the psl's stance on anchovies with pizza
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Jan 28, 2016 00:59
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Okay let's assume There's just been a communist revolution so here's me right, I am actually a pretty good chef so I can make the pizza dough and a pizza for everyone where do i get the ingredients from? can i offer to give cheesemaker and wheat grower and tomato grower and flour grinder some of my pizza in the future and then they'll give me the ingredients to make the pizza? do i need to call and arrange a time when i can use the pizza oven? i have my own oven at home but its not the same as a real pizza oven ofc.
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Jan 28, 2016 01:02
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*In Homer Simpson voice* Boy, leftism is good. But if I went really far to the left, it'd be even better!
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Jan 28, 2016 01:09
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The Saurus posted:Okay let's assume There's just been a communist revolution you can go to the newly nationalized Our-Mart supercenter and purchase your ingredients with currency earned at full labor value. there's no reason you couldn't have a pizza oven at home, and with guaranteed housing/vacation time and a 30-hour work week you can hone your pizza-making skills further either as a hobby or as a vocation in one of the many restaurants that would still exist. pizza boldly, comrade. Jewel Repetition posted:The most socialist economies I'm aware of are the DPRK, a hellhole, and Cuba, one of the most corrupt places on Earth. Is that what you're referring to? can you prove either of these qualitative statements. we've been over cuba already itt
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Jan 28, 2016 01:10
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Jewel Repetition posted:*In Homer Simpson voice* Boy, leftism is good. But if I went really far to the left, it'd be even better! - Lenin, in "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder"
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Jan 28, 2016 01:11
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:- Lenin, in "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder" i love when it becomes painfully obvious anticoms haven't read a word written by actual revolutionaries or even marx/engels for that matter
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Jan 28, 2016 01:15
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Homework Explainer posted:can you prove either of these qualitative statements. we've been over cuba already itt 1. Cuban government is corrupt. Low rankings by transparency international, most Cubans admit to it, two Cubans, one on the council for Human Development and another in a high position at the Fair Labor Association, wrote a book about it, it's been directly reported on, and even a ministry created by the government itself found corruption to be rampant. 2. DPRK is a hellhole. Wait, you really want to dispute this?
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Jan 28, 2016 01:29
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Homework Explainer posted:i love when it becomes painfully obvious anticoms haven't read a word written by actual revolutionaries or even marx/engels for that matter If you want to argue against White Nationalism you should at least have read Mein Kampf. I mean jeez.
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Jan 28, 2016 01:30
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Don't support UHC it will only make things worse! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sanders-health-plan-cost_us_56a8ff99e4b0f6b7d5447ee8 quote:When Bernie Sanders released his universal health care plan last week, promising that most people would receive more generous insurance coverage while paying less for medical care, most policy experts said it sounded too good to be true.
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Jan 28, 2016 01:32
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theres this italian guy who owns a pizza restaurant 30 seconds away from my apt and he charges high prices and he always burns the loving pies then pretends its legit. dude I know you're meant to have a little char but your poo poo is loving BURNT bro am I allowed to kill him and seize ownership of the pizza oven? how do i maintain his supply chain? becuase he has some good ingredients
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Jan 28, 2016 02:00
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:- Lenin, in "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder" Wait wait, the proud revolutionaries in this thread would endorse Leninism over Luxemburgism? I don't mean this as a criticism, I am genuinely curious.
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Jan 28, 2016 02:28
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The Saurus posted:theres this italian guy who owns a pizza restaurant 30 seconds away from my apt and he charges high prices and he always burns the loving pies then pretends its legit. dude I know you're meant to have a little char but your poo poo is loving BURNT bro I love pizza burnt, what's the place's name?
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Jan 28, 2016 02:30
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The Saurus posted:Okay let's assume There's just been a communist revolution there's been a 140x increase in agricultural productivity in the past 200 years. there's plenty of food available for very little work -- basically volunteer levels of work you could spend a year of your life on an industrial farm, and make more than enough food for an entire life. you'd just go to the store and take some. food isn't scarce anymore. Agriculture's the easiest thing. The actual hard stuff in a free society would be chemicals, since no free person is gonna ever volunteer their life and environment to turn valves in the cancer factory. And there isn't high reliability or stockpiles the way there is with our housing stock, car stocks, cooking equipment, etc Mofabio fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 02:34
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Jewel Repetition posted:Pretty much everything is on the market. That's not a real comparison. Much like this is not a real counterpoint.
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Jan 28, 2016 02:42
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Hillary Clinton posted:*In Homer Simpson voice* Boy, leftism is good. But if I went really far to the left, it'd be even better!
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Jan 28, 2016 02:45
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The Saurus posted:Okay let's assume There's just been a communist revolution There's just been a Capitalist revolution. Where do I get my ingredients from? You don't know because Capitalism is really broad and you don't know the specifics of your situation or what's available to me. Do you get what I'm saying. Also way too early to worry about Communism. Socialist revolution first to create the preconditions necessary for communism. Then the question answers itself depending on the type. to keep thigns simple let's say market socialism, so the answer is you get them from wherever you get them from at the moment. Nice and simple. The Saurus posted:theres this italian guy who owns a pizza restaurant 30 seconds away from my apt and he charges high prices and he always burns the loving pies then pretends its legit. dude I know you're meant to have a little char but your poo poo is loving BURNT bro There wouldn't be prices for things like pizza in a Communist society. To each according to their need. Free pizza bro. Also it's a trick question because come the revolution you'd have been killed as a class traitor. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 03:08
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