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shades of eternity
Nov 9, 2013

Where kitties raise dragons in the world's largest mall.

I'm starting to think the acting disparity is time with the character.

1. White Canary has upped her game, but sh'es probably had the most hours with her character.
2. the occasional casualty aside, Captain Cold nailed it out out of the park since day 1.
3. Heatwave is fantastic, but he's basically playing Jayne Cobb the enforcer.
4. The Atom is next in acting level, but he also was kept out of the better scenes (and channeling ted kord really helps as well). But you'll also notice that by cutting off our heroes here, it's a more solid a team (3 crooks and an optimist :p)
5. Firestorm is a problematic character. There are only a handful of character's that are at his power level and the only one that comes close is Flash and it's really isn't close. Of the two actors, Professor Martin Stein is the better of the two in acting and again, it's because he's had a longer chance to strut their stuff. Jefferson Jackson had one episode to connect pre series and he's feels bloody stereotypical. I hope that changes over time.
6. The Hawks biggest problem is that they are a codependent relationship that is grudging. Carter Hall comes off as a creep because of it. and Chay-Ara really is being pushed towards the "I'm in an arranged marriage" storyline. I so prefer the dcau version for Sheyera. I'd kill off Hawkman, give Vandal Savage his powerset, and force Chay-Ara to figure out her powers while living alone (because Hawkman isn't going to reincarnate this time).

The real exception is Rip Hunter and that's probably because we're seeing him play Rory as a time lord. I'm enjoying it immensely

That being said, the potential is there and we'll see how it goes. This might be the closest to seeing a Justice League Movie that doesn't suck. :p.

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Zebulon
Aug 20, 2005

Oh god why does it burn?!

Vorgen posted:

So Time Masters are discouraged from marriage or families because they don't need "entanglements," and when Rip's family died the Time Masters refused to help. So he's really Anakin Timewalker.

gently caress.

Well, at least there's no George Lucas writing dialogue so awful no amount of editing or acting could ever make it work?

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003
no clue

shades of eternity posted:

I'm starting to think the acting disparity is time with the character.

1. White Canary has upped her game, but sh'es probably had the most hours with her character.
2. the occasional casualty aside, Captain Cold nailed it out out of the park since day 1.
3. Heatwave is fantastic, but he's basically playing Jayne Cobb the enforcer.
4. The Atom is next in acting level, but he also was kept out of the better scenes (and channeling ted kord really helps as well). But you'll also notice that by cutting off our heroes here, it's a more solid a team (3 crooks and an optimist :p)
5. Firestorm is a problematic character. There are only a handful of character's that are at his power level and the only one that comes close is Flash and it's really isn't close. Of the two actors, Professor Martin Stein is the better of the two in acting and again, it's because he's had a longer chance to strut their stuff. Jefferson Jackson had one episode to connect pre series and he's feels bloody stereotypical. I hope that changes over time.
6. The Hawks biggest problem is that they are a codependent relationship that is grudging. Carter Hall comes off as a creep because of it. and Chay-Ara really is being pushed towards the "I'm in an arranged marriage" storyline. I so prefer the dcau version for Sheyera. I'd kill off Hawkman, give Vandal Savage his powerset, and force Chay-Ara to figure out her powers while living alone (because Hawkman isn't going to reincarnate this time).

The real exception is Rip Hunter and that's probably because we're seeing him play Rory as a time lord. I'm enjoying it immensely

That being said, the potential is there and we'll see how it goes. This might be the closest to seeing a Justice League Movie that doesn't suck. :p.

While the hawk's acting isn't doing them any favors (hawkman in particular is wooden as a tree), I don't think any actors or actresses could make the material work. In addition to the weird arranged marriage storyline, their backstory is convulsed as gently caress, but because they have the biggest connection to the main villain they are likely stuck trying to do any emotional heavy lifting the show needs. Just look at the premier, "Here is your son whom you have no memory of at all. In about 4 minutes of screen time we will be at his death scene. Good luck creating a believable bond in that time so that the audience cares if he dies.

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.


shades of eternity posted:

5. Firestorm is a problematic character. There are only a handful of character's that are at his power level and the only one that comes close is Flash and it's really isn't close. Of the two actors, Professor Martin Stein is the better of the two in acting and again, it's because he's had a longer chance to strut their stuff. Jefferson Jackson had one episode to connect pre series and he's feels bloody stereotypical. I hope that changes over time.

Jackson desperately needs some kind of characterization that doesn't boil down to "the black guy". Maybe they can do something with the whole team-player aspect; if he can pull out some decent acting, a storyline of him growing into a leadership role for the team could be cool.

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012




Grimey Drawer

We just really need to see his natural athleticism come into play

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate


I dont know posted:

It had a 1.2 in the demo for it's premier, and it remains to be seen how much that number will drop for the second episode. Right now, Arrow is getting 1.0-1.1 and Flash is 1.3-1.4. Unless that number goes up by alot, I suspect you're right about it only being one season. The CW president hinted that they are considering a live action Vixon series, but he also hinted about her joining LOT so who knows.


1.2 in the demo is pretty drat good in today's TV landscape and loving amazing for the CW.

The biggest problem is the CW seems to have too many shows they want to keep going at the moment.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

I wanna know why Stein possesses roofied drinks ready to go at a moment's notice.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



sbaldrick posted:

1.2 in the demo is pretty drat good in today's TV landscape and loving amazing for the CW.

The biggest problem is the CW seems to have too many shows they want to keep going at the moment.

Yeah but it's a premiere so it's not a useful number yet.

Vorgen
Mar 5, 2006

Party Membership is a Democracy, The Weave is Not.

A fledgling vampire? How about a dragon, or some half-kobold druids? Perhaps a spontaneous sex change? Anything that can happen, will happen the results will be beyond entertaining.


BrianWilly posted:

I wanna know why Stein possesses roofied drinks ready to go at a moment's notice.
He's a college professor. What further explanation do you need?

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

Valeyard posted:

We just really need to see his natural athleticism come into play

Don't forget his extra fast twitch muscle fibers!

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


The weakest character right now is Jackson. They really need to find a way for him to step away from the stereotypical jockish football player.

The worst part of the episode is when Stein is apologizing to him and talking about how he got excited by the possibility of time travel, and Jackson cuts him off, "please... do not geek out on quantum physics right now." And he kinda sorta says it jokingly, but it's the type of thing a jock would say and it's a very line.

Nullsmack
Dec 7, 2001
Digital apocalypse

Rory really wants to show you his mad PC gaming skills.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Nullsmack posted:

Rory really wants to show you his mad PC gaming skills.


"this is me getting top score in call of duty 87, right before vandal hacked the servers and erased everyone's scores"

*the crowd gasps*

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I dont know posted:

While the hawk's acting isn't doing them any favors (hawkman in particular is wooden as a tree), I don't think any actors or actresses could make the material work. In addition to the weird arranged marriage storyline, their backstory is convulsed as gently caress, but because they have the biggest connection to the main villain they are likely stuck trying to do any emotional heavy lifting the show needs. Just look at the premier, "Here is your son whom you have no memory of at all. In about 4 minutes of screen time we will be at his death scene. Good luck creating a believable bond in that time so that the audience cares if he dies.

Michael Shanks did a good job in smallville. His hawkman was far better.

Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


Not a bad pilot. Enough to keep me watching. I think I liked mostly what other people liked.

I can't help but reiterate: Hawkman is very, very creepy. I kept looking to see if that apartment of theirs had two beds or not.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



The Lord Bude posted:

Michael Shanks did a good job in smallville. His hawkman was far better.

No he didn't. No he wasn't.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Probably the biggest problem with the Hawkpeople plot is that they had Kendra take way too long to accept it. Her reluctance made Carter's insistence really creepy.

lotus circle
Dec 25, 2012

Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Even if Kendra accepted it quickly, it would still be kind of creepy in any scenario for some dude you never met to just go "hey so we're reincarnated hawk people who have been lovers for over thousands of years, only you have no memory of it."

That said, Kendra did accept it. Part of the crossover was Kendra coming to terms with being a hawk person. She had a big speech to Cisco about it on Flash and then they had another talk about it on Arrow, so this continued "I was just a barista a month ago!" stuff feels really forced. Like they're worried viewers didn't see the crossover episode, even though it's safe to say far more than half of the viewing audience are already watching Flash and/or Arrow.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



They really needed to have it be more that she was already having visions of the past and Carter showing up had them make sense instead of she still doesn't remember anything and Carter keeps telling her that no, they're totally special forever soulmates.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



Aphrodite posted:

No he didn't. No he wasn't.

Phrasing that his Hawkman was better makes it sound like his Hawkman was good. It wasn't. But this is worse because the actor sucks. The fact that it's worse doesn't mean that Smallville's was good.

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

He just needs any character traits whatsoever beyond winged date surprise sex to Hawkgirl and smug prick to everyone else.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



Whizbang posted:

He just needs any character traits whatsoever beyond winged date surprise sex to Hawkgirl and smug prick to everyone else.

Those seem to be the only traits I can think of that Hawkman should have to be fair. It's not like we're dealing with a good character here anyway. Hawkgirl has always been the more interesting one, mostly on the back of the Justice League cartoon.

lotus circle
Dec 25, 2012

Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

The creators keep hinting at the possibility that someone on the cast is going to die, in an obnoxious "well not ALL of them might make it" way. If it has to be anyone I hope it's Hawkman.

(spoiler tagged only so no one throws a fit about something that's not even really confirmed yet.)

Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


lotus circle posted:

The creators keep hinting at the possibility that someone on the cast is going to die, in an obnoxious "well not ALL of them might make it" way. If it has to be anyone I hope it's Hawkman.

(spoiler tagged only so no one throws a fit about something that's not even really confirmed yet.)

Yes, please be Hawkman.

It could actually be somewhat interesting storywise, what with Hawkgirl going "We always died together. What happens now?"

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006


I think in all the early casting announcements, Hawkman and the actor playing him weren't mentioned. That person was added later than all the others, so if anyone is expendable, that would be my guess.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


DC Legends of Tomorrow - Please kill Hawkman

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013



I think the writers mentioned that they wrote the pilot for Legends, and then CW had the idea of turning Arrow/The Flash's crossover into a prologue for Legends.

Hence why some lines in the pilot just awkwardly allude to the crossover instead of fully embracing what happened in it.

Really, really hoping they can shake off the pilot jitters.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Hawkman might have been fine(-ish) if the Flash/Arrow crossover had ended with him going, "I'll keep my distance and give you time," (which is what they did in the JSA comics this appears to be working from) instead of being all, "DO YOU HAVE YOUR MEMORIES BACK YET, BELOVED?" You know, make it more "unrequired love" than "creepy stalker goon". It feels a bit like Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones, to be honest.

I was also thinking that the scene with Rip assembling the team at the start might have been a bit neater if instead of him gathering them all on a rooftop, they'd kept the same dialogue but cut between him explaining it each of them separately. Or maybe that would've been worse - I can just about write Internet posts, much less TV episodes.

It just felt sort of awkward as it was.

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Whatever tape you found in that VCR, it isn't mine.

Fun Shoe

The Hawkcouple keep being killed not because of a curse but simply because their relationship creeps everyone out so much they have to be gotten rid of. And Hawk"girl" seems like a weird appellation for someone who is 4000 years old. Her partner is not Hawkboy.

But seriously, if they are immortal through soul resurrection or whatever, and they are traveling through time, they could meet themselves during their adventures and ask for or give themselves advice and remember that meeting when they return to the 'current' timeline :paradox:

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Binary Logic posted:

But seriously, if they are immortal through soul resurrection or whatever, and they are traveling through time, they could meet themselves during their adventures and ask for or give themselves advice and remember that meeting when they return to the 'current' timeline :paradox:

Hunter indicated that changing time in this manner is very hard to do.

Besides, there's no guarantee that they won't be, say, 5 year old kids on the year the time machine stops for that mission.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006


Binary Logic posted:

The Hawkcouple keep being killed not because of a curse but simply because their relationship creeps everyone out so much they have to be gotten rid of. And Hawk"girl" seems like a weird appellation for someone who is 4000 years old. Her partner is not Hawkboy.

Ladyhawk?

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Binary Logic posted:

The Hawkcouple keep being killed not because of a curse but simply because their relationship creeps everyone out so much they have to be gotten rid of. And Hawk"girl" seems like a weird appellation for someone who is 4000 years old. Her partner is not Hawkboy.

But seriously, if they are immortal through soul resurrection or whatever, and they are traveling through time, they could meet themselves during their adventures and ask for or give themselves advice and remember that meeting when they return to the 'current' timeline :paradox:

If you perceive Hawkgirl as anything less than excellent, isnt the real problem you?

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012




Grimey Drawer

I'd say one of the Hawk's is going to die for sure, and they will have to travel forward 30 years and find the next reincarnation, or pull him from another time completely

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

plz control u toxic hatsculinity



Aphrodite posted:

If you perceive Hawkgirl as anything less than excellent, isnt the real problem you?

hahaha

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Hawkwoman.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Let's just call her Titty Hawk. And the guy can be Dick Hawk.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

FemHawk.

Hawkess.

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.


Just call her Hawk, DC has the copyright.

Stayne Falls
Aug 11, 2007
Everything was beautiful

Aphrodite posted:

If you perceive Hawkgirl as anything less than excellent, isnt the real problem you?

That scene had a serious "___" - a woman - a man vibe.

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Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013



My favorite part was when Hawkman said "i'm going to beat the poo poo out of you so you'll agree to my demands". Yeah, that's a surefire way to make me like your character.

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