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Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.

You know, I think I would conk out a kid for a chance to time travel.

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tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Narcissus1916 posted:

My favorite part was when Hawkman said "i'm going to beat the poo poo out of you so you'll agree to my demands". Yeah, that's a surefire way to make me like your character.

I think I might be alone in not being bothered about that scene. It appears to have been meant to establish that they're both physical people who like to fight and have confidence in their skill at it, Hawk-girl as well as Hawk-man. She agreed to it and obviously favored her chances to say she did so. We don't see Hawkman grab her from behind when she wasn't expecting it and then beating her senseless or anything. It was a mutual thing, and I'm fine with that. I found the actual footage of the two of them flying at each other worse, just because it was so awkward looking.

On the whole though, I was far more bothered by the idea that a metahuman like Firestorm, who in the context of this show has to be the second most powerful metahuman on Earth at this time, if not the most powerful could somehow be so worthless a hero that he's barely remembered historically. I think Ray being that unimportant is somewhat stretching things too given not just his powers, but his intellect, money, charisma and drive. I cannot see him just remaining an unknown hero in that setting with all that going for him unless he dies again sometime in the next few weeks without Rip coming to collect him. The rest I can see all remaining unknown and unimportant, because for various reasons all of them have a desire to hide themselves away from the spotlight. Heatwave and Captain Cold are just small time crooks at the end of the day, Sarah just wants to deal with her own poo poo, not be a hero and the Hawks are looking to hide from Savage and have been for a long time. Firestorm and Atom though? Just not buying it.

Oh, and Savage is a severely underwhelming villain and I don't really see that changing, so I hope Chronos gets more screentime and personality to beef up the show's villain roster or something.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


Sure, in 2024, Hawkgirl and the Atom are due to team up with Green Arrow and the Flash in a big fight with the Reverse-Flash in Central City that ends with the Flash vanishing.

It was in Wells's future newspaper.

Mr. Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono


Professor Wayne posted:

You know, I think I would conk out a kid for a chance to time travel.

This is why I like Stein and not Hawkman. Stein is definitely an rear end in a top hat and the show treats him as such.

tsob posted:

I think I might be alone in not being bothered about that scene. It appears to have been meant to establish that they're both physical people who like to fight and have confidence in their skill at it, Hawk-girl as well as Hawk-man. She agreed to it and obviously favored her chances to say she did so. We don't see Hawkman grab her from behind when she wasn't expecting it and then beating her senseless or anything. It was a mutual thing, and I'm fine with that. I found the actual footage of the two of them flying at each other worse, just because it was so awkward looking.

On the whole though, I was far more bothered by the idea that a metahuman like Firestorm, who in the context of this show has to be the second most powerful metahuman on Earth at this time, if not the most powerful could somehow be so worthless a hero that he's barely remembered historically. I think Ray being that unimportant is somewhat stretching things too given not just his powers, but his intellect, money, charisma and drive. I cannot see him just remaining an unknown hero in that setting with all that going for him unless he dies again sometime in the next few weeks without Rip coming to collect him. The rest I can see all remaining unknown and unimportant, because for various reasons all of them have a desire to hide themselves away from the spotlight. Heatwave and Captain Cold are just small time crooks at the end of the day, Sarah just wants to deal with her own poo poo, not be a hero and the Hawks are looking to hide from Savage and have been for a long time. Firestorm and Atom though? Just not buying it.

Oh, and Savage is a severely underwhelming villain and I don't really see that changing, so I hope Chronos gets more screentime and personality to beef up the show's villain roster or something.

I felt that Ray ended up becoming unimportant because his biggest achievements were behind him. He was a bigtime inventor/industrialist, but set it aside to become a hero--and ultimately ended up doing nothing of note after he came back. At least, nothing significant enough to disrupt the timeline much. Same with Firestorm. It's entirely possible that they were going to become lost in the crowd as more heroes emerge.

And hell, we don't know how Gideon figures out who is relevant to the timeline. Might be "Someone else could have done X, also had opportunity, would achieve essentially the same result."

Batham
Jun 19, 2010

Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate. The bombs are guaranteed to always hit the ground.


Wait, people are hating this show? I thought it was a god drat blast!

"We go out for one louzy drink and you somehow manage to pick a fight with boba fett." *cocks gun*

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


Yeah the Hawkpeople relationship is in some weird territory. Kendra goes from 'no I don't know you you rapist' to 'ok maybe I am part hawk and we had this past relationship' to 'yes I am your mom, guy i've never met before ever'

everything else is cool except date surprise sex firestorm

lotus circle
Dec 25, 2012

Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Batham posted:

Wait, people are hating this show? I thought it was a god drat blast!

"We go out for one louzy drink and you somehow manage to pick a fight with boba fett." *cocks gun*


I think most of it is just nitpicking, which is what goons are known for The pilot may not have been perfect, but it established the plot, gave some laughs and had some cool action in it. Really that's all an action show needs to be at the end of the day. If you want hard hitting drama, go to AMC or HBO.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


tsob posted:

On the whole though, I was far more bothered by the idea that a metahuman like Firestorm, who in the context of this show has to be the second most powerful metahuman on Earth at this time, if not the most powerful could somehow be so worthless a hero that he's barely remembered historically. I think Ray being that unimportant is somewhat stretching things too given not just his powers, but his intellect, money, charisma and drive. I cannot see him just remaining an unknown hero in that setting with all that going for him unless he dies again sometime in the next few weeks without Rip coming to collect him. The rest I can see all remaining unknown and unimportant, because for various reasons all of them have a desire to hide themselves away from the spotlight. Heatwave and Captain Cold are just small time crooks at the end of the day, Sarah just wants to deal with her own poo poo, not be a hero and the Hawks are looking to hide from Savage and have been for a long time. Firestorm and Atom though? Just not buying it.

People are remembered for their actions and contributions (positive or negative), not their intellect, money, charisma or even "power level". And we don't know how Firestorm and Ray would have acted moving forward, or what would have happened to them, had Rip not convinced them to go on the journey. I mean Ray already blew himself up once and almost died. Maybe he was going to do it again in a few weeks while working on something else and die for real this time. And maybe Stein was going to die of natural causes in a few years -- he is pretty old after all -- putting an end to Firestorm. The only thing Rip said that in that specific timeline, they wouldn't end up having a big impact on things, which is why he chose them.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

Fancy.


I notice Rip name-dropped Per Degaton in his appeal to the Time Masters - Degaton would have been a better villain to introduce a time-travel show than Vandal Savage. I realise they're tying Savage into the Hawks but Degaton would have been a better villain to introduce a time travel show; should've saved the "immortal fixed point in time" bad guy for later and started with the "they chase him through history" villain.

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011


tsob posted:

On the whole though, I was far more bothered by the idea that a metahuman like Firestorm, who in the context of this show has to be the second most powerful metahuman on Earth at this time, if not the most powerful could somehow be so worthless a hero that he's barely remembered historically. I think Ray being that unimportant is somewhat stretching things too given not just his powers, but his intellect, money, charisma and drive. I cannot see him just remaining an unknown hero in that setting with all that going for him unless he dies again sometime in the next few weeks without Rip coming to collect him. The rest I can see all remaining unknown and unimportant, because for various reasons all of them have a desire to hide themselves away from the spotlight. Heatwave and Captain Cold are just small time crooks at the end of the day, Sarah just wants to deal with her own poo poo, not be a hero and the Hawks are looking to hide from Savage and have been for a long time. Firestorm and Atom though? Just not buying it.

Yeah, but it's been what, 2.5 years since the particle accelerator blew up? With 150 years to go before it's Rip Hunter's time? That's a heck of a lot more metahumans that could show up from the accelerator or fall through a dimensional portal, or whatever. Firestorm's the big guy on the block today, but there's no reason to think that that sticks.

Mr. Fowl posted:

And hell, we don't know how Gideon figures out who is relevant to the timeline. Might be "Someone else could have done X, also had opportunity, would achieve essentially the same result."

W/r/t the Atom this makes a lot of sense - Ray's already built the suit, and it's well within handwaving distance to say that there are blueprints and notes somewhere of his major inventions that could be found and utilized by someone else.

Adder Moray
Nov 18, 2010


I just figured that, prior to Rip's intervention, Firestorm would have just quit. Jackson is clearly not digging their arrangement.

Meanwhile, how many brilliant inventors have there been in the history of the world that barely anyone can remember because the things they made weren't paradigm shifts. Ray exists at the same time as Harrison Wells. The experimental physicist turned secret murderer who is responsible for the existence of metahumans. Who is Ray Palmer compared to that?

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Heck, even Stein couldn't remember Ray and his research.

jscolon2.0
Jul 9, 2001

With great payroll, comes great disappointment.


Narcissus1916 posted:

My favorite part was when Hawkman said "i'm going to beat the poo poo out of you so you'll agree to my demands". Yeah, that's a surefire way to make me like your character.

It worked for Jayne, though...

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

World-changing power, absolutely no side effects!

Adder Moray posted:

Meanwhile, how many brilliant inventors have there been in the history of the world that barely anyone can remember because the things they made weren't paradigm shifts.

If anyone wants to hear about these kinds of things, I reccommend How We Got to Now, either the book or the PBS series. Haven't read the book yet, but the series is sorta like Connections but with a focus on a specific kind of technology rather than an unbroken chain of innovation. An episode on light (from early attempts at lightbulbs to neon to fiber-optics), one on cold (why refrigeration is such a big deal), et cetera. It points out some people who are forgotten by history because they had the right idea at the wrong time, or identified the problem but the tools to solve it wouldn't be along for 50 years. Fascinating stuff.

4000 Dollar Suit
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

What happened to Roy I thought he was gonna be in this?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013


4000 Dollar Suit posted:

What happened to Roy I thought he was gonna be in this?

You thought wrong. We already knew this was the entire team.

Roy's reappearing in Arrow, so that alone means he couldn't be a main here.

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.


Adder Moray posted:

I just figured that, prior to Rip's intervention, Firestorm would have just quit. Jackson is clearly not digging their arrangement.

Meanwhile, how many brilliant inventors have there been in the history of the world that barely anyone can remember because the things they made weren't paradigm shifts. Ray exists at the same time as Harrison Wells. The experimental physicist turned secret murderer who is responsible for the existence of metahumans. Who is Ray Palmer compared to that?

He also seems to be pretty lovely at super-heroing. He's made progress since his debut but he still screwed up the mission he was on for Ollie against Dahrk in the Legends pilot with the computer thing.

losonti tokash
Oct 29, 2007

I'm so pretty, oh so pretty.

4000 Dollar Suit posted:

What happened to Roy I thought he was gonna be in this?

Nah, he left to go become a big movie star. I think he's in San Andreas for like 30 seconds as The Rock's partner.

quote:

He also seems to be pretty lovely at super-heroing. He's made progress since his debut but he still screwed up the mission he was on for Ollie against Dahrk in the Legends pilot with the computer thing.

To be fair, that was a trap they set for him. God knows Oliver trips into those every 5 minutes. What's kind of telling is no one seemed to give a poo poo after some dude suddenly kidnapped Ray and they both vanished. When Ray comes back to ask Oliver for advice there isn't even an "oh wow good thing you're okay."

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

4000 Dollar Suit posted:

What happened to Roy I thought he was gonna be in this?

Their mission didn't require flipping or being shirtless.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


XboxPants posted:

Just call her Hawk, DC has the copyright.

A Woman Called Hawk.


X-O posted:

Those seem to be the only traits I can think of that Hawkman should have to be fair. It's not like we're dealing with a good character here anyway. Hawkgirl has always been the more interesting one, mostly on the back of the Justice League cartoon.

Which they've already thrown out the window by ditching the space element. The space-cop/undercover agent torn between her nation and her heart was the most interesting part of her cartoon version. It's the whole "you can't do one without the other" thing that led to Supergirl's Cousin as well. Like the idea of having Hawkgirl or Supergirl be standalone concepts is inconceivable to these producers.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


Roy's speciality is unnecessary parkour. By its very nature, it's...unnecessary.

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012



4000 Dollar Suit posted:

What happened to Roy I thought he was gonna be in this?

Are you sure you didn't get Roy mixed up with Ray? Very similar names.

4000 Dollar Suit
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

hangedman1984 posted:

Are you sure you didn't get Roy mixed up with Ray? Very similar names.

No, Ray is on the show. He just left similarly with the whole "I gotta do some stuff In another city, peace out bros" thing so I assumed.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Was there an explanation for why Rip Van Winkle has Eobard Thawne's computer?

Adder Moray posted:

I just figured that, prior to Rip's intervention, Firestorm would have just quit. Jackson is clearly not digging their arrangement.
Yeah, I could definitely see Firestorm not being important just because Stein's a tedious arsehole and Jackson would be fully justified in not wanting to stick around.

lotus circle
Dec 25, 2012

Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Tiggum posted:

Was there an explanation for why Rip Van Winkle has Eobard Thawne's computer?
No, but my guess is "Gideon" is just some futuristic version of Siri.

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012



4000 Dollar Suit posted:

No, Ray is on the show. He just left similarly with the whole "I gotta do some stuff In another city, peace out bros" thing so I assumed.

Yes. buy Roy isn't. I was wondering if maybe you heard that Ray was going to be on it and thought you heard Roy.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



enraged_camel posted:

People are remembered for their actions and contributions (positive or negative), not their intellect, money, charisma or even "power level". And we don't know how Firestorm and Ray would have acted moving forward, or what would have happened to them, had Rip not convinced them to go on the journey.

Adding to this point: Rip is a liar. Maybe none of these characters achieve anything significant, or maybe they end up doing *very* significant things that Rip has decided are bad or counterproductive. He's already decided to intentionally change time, so he might as well go for bust.

Maybe Ray creates more and more world-changing technology, but it somehow helps facilitate Vandal's rise to power. Maybe Firestorm has an illustrious superhero career, but ends up detonating and taking the city of Pittsburgh with them. The only person who said they do nothing is the same one who said they were Legends.

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011


losonti tokash posted:

What's kind of telling is no one seemed to give a poo poo after some dude suddenly kidnapped Ray and they both vanished. When Ray comes back to ask Oliver for advice there isn't even an "oh wow good thing you're okay."

Oliver once left Roy passed out electrocuted in a puddle due to sloppy editing. I assumed this was more of the same.

Robot Hobo
May 17, 2002

robothobo.com


Xealot posted:

Adding to this point: Rip is a liar. Maybe none of these characters achieve anything significant, or maybe they end up doing *very* significant things that Rip has decided are bad or counterproductive.
Or maybe he's telling the truth, technically, but he's neglecting to mention that none of them have an impact on the future because he snatched them out of the timeline.

It's a big logical flaw in a lot of time travel stories. If Doc Brown takes Marty out of 1985 and visits 2015, then that should be a 2015 where Marty just disappeared without a trace one day 30 years ago.

So if Rip's time travel does take that into account, then none of these people exist in the future at all. Until the mission is over and they're put back in place. So he's not technically wrong, just super misleading.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Deal With it Midgardian

You know what this show reminds me of, back when SyFy was Sci-fi Channel, this feels like one of their original shows. There's something about the sets, the effects, the way dialog is written and the acting over all reminds me of Stargate or something like that.

I'm not saying that's bad, its just feels odd. I agree with the complaints though about the guy playing Carter. He just gives off this obsessive, possessive stalker vibe and the dialog does not help. Killing him off would go a long way to improve the show.

My only other real issue is this version of Vandal Savage doesn't really feel like a threat.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


twistedmentat posted:

My only other real issue is this version of Vandal Savage doesn't really feel like a threat.



Stealing a nuke from a Soviet convoy with the intention of setting it off and starting a world war isn't a threat?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Deal With it Midgardian

enraged_camel posted:



Stealing a nuke from a Soviet convoy with the intention of setting it off and starting a world war isn't a threat?

It's his presence more than actions. He's just another beardo, not very imposing or scary.

EricFate
Aug 31, 2001

Crumpets. Glorious Crumpets.

Nap Ghost

losonti tokash posted:

Nah, he left to go become a big movie star. I think he's in San Andreas for like 30 seconds as The Rock's partner.

This year he gets to play a high school wrestler with cerebral palsy, in a film directed by the guy who brought Lawnmower Man to the big screen.

Among other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCMeBHihYq4

I'm sure it will be a fine quality picture.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Coach Bloodbutt
Default Status: POOPING



Gaz-L posted:

A Woman Called Hawk.

Yeah?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Deal With it Midgardian

Either version of Hawk and Dove would be great. Actually, this show does lend itself well to single episode heroes and villains. Depends on how much they want to spend on effects and such.

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003
no clue


I know drawing feet is hard, but there has got to be a better solution than to have them walk around en pointe.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Maybe they are ballerinas.

Or maybe the floor is very, very hot. Like lava.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.

twistedmentat posted:

Either version of Hawk and Dove would be great. Actually, this show does lend itself well to single episode heroes and villains. Depends on how much they want to spend on effects and such.

Only if they get the Arnold brothers back together to play them in live action. I'd settle for just the Savage brothers if they can't swing that.


What happened to their feet?

raditts fucked around with this message at Jan 26, 2016 around 05:44

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

No dudes. Those are action poses. Those characters are dynamic and physical and fluid. Tips of their toes 'cause they're always on the move. Also, titties.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


I dont know posted:

I know drawing feet is hard, but there has got to be a better solution than to have them walk around en pointe.

Rocks, fog, or other people are a well known method.

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