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The Human Cow
May 24, 2004

hurry up

Replaced the capacitor today and everything is nice and cool. Thanks again, dudes.

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Qwijib0
Apr 10, 2007

Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?


Fun Shoe

zenintrude posted:

Alright an issue Ive been stressing about for months and months just occurred to me there might be a SA thread for it...

Heres the situation:

- 1000 sqft South Florida house built in the late 50s
- Year old 2.5 ton 16 seer Trane, handler installed in attic (only place to have it installed in such a small place I guess)
- Dark colored asphalt (not gabled, not flat) roof with full ridge vent
- Brand new blown in insulation
- Brand new low-E impact glass windows and doors
- Recently ripped out the old, painted over and debris clogged soffit vents... what remains is a 1.5~ inch wide hole that runs around 3/4 of the house and a series of smallish (2.5 inch) vent holes on 1/4 of the house




Especially now that Im home all the time Im really noticing how much the AC is running during the day simply trying to get down to a normal temperature (73 - 74) when its not that ridiculously hot outside (84 - 86 at peak recently). For example, heres yesterday:



Everything I read seems to indicate that an AC should be able to cool 15 - 20 degrees below the outside temps and Im not really seeing that here and its kinda driving me nuts.

That said what should I be looking into? Spray foam insulation? Radiant barriers? Bigger soffit vents? At this point Ill try anything as Im fearing what this is going to look like once we start hitting hotter temps.

Looking at the EPA charts for 1% cooling, there is no Florida city with that temp over 94, so it running 75% or so of the time at 86 isn't unexpected, if properly sized it'll be running 100% or close to it at the 1% temp.

The 15-20 degree number is not outside/inside but rather supply vs return air in the house, so the air coming out of the vents should be 15-20 degrees cooler than the ambient temp.

It's possible the unit is undersized but man, that would be a rarity.

Forum Hussy
Feb 8, 2005


About 6 months ago I had my downstairs package unit serviced for a reason I don't recall right now and it's worked fine, until I tried to turn on the AC for the first time this year. The blower motor turns on but the compressor kind of clicks occasionally and never starts. "Capacitor" is always the word you hear when the service guy comes so I figured I'd check that first. If I'm looking at this right, the compressor isn't even connected??? There's two leads on Common and two on Fan and thats it



According to the wiring diagram the yellow wire is supposed to go to the Herm term, would I be wrong to just swap it over? I tested capacitance and everything checks out fine.

Forum Hussy fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Apr 3, 2020

Qwijib0
Apr 10, 2007

Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?


Fun Shoe

Herm is short for hermetically sealed compressor, so yeah, if the compressor is the problem and you've got a wiring diagram that shows it should be connected elsewhere that's probably the issue.

The only thing I can think of why it would be that way is for some reason both the fan and compressor motors need the same value capacitor and all the service guy had is a dual but that would be.... odd

Forum Hussy
Feb 8, 2005


I switched it over and turned everything back on, the compressor kicked on but the condenser fan didn't. I checked the capacitance values with a voltmeter and they were within spec the first time, then I couldn't get a reading from the fan side after that. I'm going to replace the capacitor and hope I don't have to get the fan motor swapped out too

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005



Oven Wrangler

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



I love it when the blanket pulls off in one piece.

Picking it off bit by bit or using a brush takes forever.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Most of the guys I know use compressed air or a garden hose with a high pressure nozzle to blast it off from the other side. Reminds me, I gotta do that soon...

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



compressed air works, but I usually don't have a compressor. getting it wet just makes it harder to get out of the corners.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004


Taco Defender

Just bought a (1937, well kept up, northern New Jersey) house. Planning to get a contractor in but figured I'd bounce some questions off y'all first. Still educating myself on all this

There are two (but largely conjoined, no door) expansion rooms not part of the house's central air. I'd like to install a mini split heat pump. Would cool+heat as we plan to rip out these room's baseboards (separate from rest of house, which is radiators) for reasons.

Smaller of the two is 12' x 12' (x ~11' - ceilings are high and oddly shaped - so ~1600 cubic ft), larger is 12' x 20' (x ~10' = ~2400 cubic ft).

Given NJ sees temps from ~0-100F, how many BTUs would you estimate I need? Online calculators give me everything from 14k to 42k, depending on temperature differential (eg if it's 10 out and I want to be 68, that's more energy than eg cooling from 85 to 70).

Related: will non-"low ambient" heat pumps still function well in cold snaps (just at lower efficiency) or should I consider getting a low ambient model? And is there an equivalent for heatwaves? haven't seen mention of "high ambient" anywhere.


For the rest of the house: central air is a Trane XR13 (3.0 ton / 36k BTU) from 2006 using (now phased out) R-22. How likely is it that this thing will croak on me during the anticipated hotter than average summer approaching, especially if I can't readily get its refrigerant topped off?

And assuming it needs replacing in a few years regardless, will it need a full replacement or is there a chance the attic-based air handler and evaporator could work with a newer exterior condensor/compressor and R-410? Seems unlikely but figured I'd ask.

I also wonder if it's feasible (or smart) to replace it with a heat pump (presumably still leveraging the ductwork, not going full ductless), in case we find the (also starting to age) radiator boiler wants replacing down the line.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004


Taco Defender

Hoping the passage of time means double posting ain't so bad: curious if I can start a short brand war here between Carrier and the Japanese minisplit makers like Fujitsu and Mitsubishi? When one looks up mini splits online (or asks friends, etc) everyone only seems to like, or have, the Japanese brands.

However one contractor I am talking to clearly partners with Carrier as that's what they're pushing as being "more efficient". Is this guy just wanting to work with what he knows or will I really get more bang for my buck despite the brand seeming much less widespread (== harder to find parts/service)?

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



He is pushing carrier because his margins are higher, end of story.

Hvac busines is similar to car dealerships in that you franchise with a manufacturer and get access to better pricing, training, and other resources with the expectation you will go and sell their product.

Also mitsu made a deal with trane so we will see how poo poo they get in the future.

Edit: i have had endless problems with budget category carrier minis, but thats anecdotal and often because they were being used incorrectly.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004


Taco Defender

Forgot to ask last night: for the conjoined rooms I mentioned earlier, I'm getting mixed input on whether a 1 or 2 zone system makes more sense. One contractor said two heads makes more sense due to the space layout & one room being lower than the other (so in winter the hot air would migrate out of it). Other says one head is better because two would "fight each other" which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Unless a two head system would be so overpowered that even a variable speed inverter driven compressor can't crank down far enough to avoid problems, I'm leaning two zones to make sure I'm comfortable enough.

MRC48B posted:

He is pushing carrier because his margins are higher, end of story.

Hvac busines is similar to car dealerships in that you franchise with a manufacturer and get access to better pricing, training, and other resources with the expectation you will go and sell their product.
Figured this was the case. Already planning to push him a bit about getting one of the JP brands to see if that changes his math any. Suspect the other company will pitch Mitsubishi, given their website.

Also a bit odd that company A gave me a quote after 15 minutes of being on the phone with hq, but company B requires a couple days for a followup call to present their quote. Either A is slapdash and B is thorough, or A is efficient and B takes forever?

quote:

Also mitsu made a deal with trane so we will see how poo poo they get in the future.
Is Trane bad? From what I'd seen they seem to be as well liked as any large brand is. Tho as mentioned the one this house has for AC is pending replacement so I may not care for long.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


bitprophet posted:

Hoping the passage of time means double posting ain't so bad: curious if I can start a short brand war here between Carrier and the Japanese minisplit makers like Fujitsu and Mitsubishi? When one looks up mini splits online (or asks friends, etc) everyone only seems to like, or have, the Japanese brands.

However one contractor I am talking to clearly partners with Carrier as that's what they're pushing as being "more efficient". Is this guy just wanting to work with what he knows or will I really get more bang for my buck despite the brand seeming much less widespread (== harder to find parts/service)?

I wound up buying what I'm sure Fujitsu will call a black market Halcyon unit and having a random HVAC contractor install it. I'm pretty sure the cost spread between my unit and having a "~certified~" installer do it means I need to get 5 years out of it before replacing it would be break even. My dad also has like 6 of the units across his 3 properties, no clue on if he used a "certified" installer or not.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



Sorry, I'm bitching again.

Trane equipment is fine.

Trane can suck to deal with as a non-franchised contractor. they love proprietary stuff and parts you can only get through them.

Mitsu has previously been pretty open with documentation and training. I am worried that trane will do the obvious and jack prices for mitsu parts and equipment even higher, and close off documentation access, because gently caress you.


Two zone systems fight each other if you place them up poorly, and have occupants that incessantly mess with the setpoint.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


I hope York is decent because dude is here putting it in. It seems to at least be nice to have 5yr of labor too.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004


Taco Defender

MRC48B posted:

Sorry, I'm bitching again.

Trane equipment is fine.
Thanks, and condolences.

quote:

Two zone systems fight each other if you place them up poorly, and have occupants that incessantly mess with the setpoint.

Nah this would all be for little ol me in my spacious two room suite of a home office, so Id expect to set the two heads to complementary temperatures, whatever that ends up being.

My worry with a single head setup is it would make the two spaces uneven, eg the smaller space would get too hot before the larger one received enough warm air to be comfortable.

ntan1
Apr 29, 2009

sempai noticed me


I would trust Japanese brands of minisplit systems way more than American ones, predominantly because minisplit systems are way more commonplace in Asia. Carrier is much more recent in terms of rolling out products for minisplits, so I would not use them.

Between Fujitsu and Mitsubishi, the latter is more expensive but considered slightly higher quality. I don't really think it may be worth the difference in cost though, since both are probably about as reliable.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


bitprophet posted:

Nah this would all be for little ol me in my spacious two room suite of a home office, so Id expect to set the two heads to complementary temperatures, whatever that ends up being.

My worry with a single head setup is it would make the two spaces uneven, eg the smaller space would get too hot before the larger one received enough warm air to be comfortable.

How many square feet and how are they connected? Is it just a door between them or a wider space? Well insulated walls and windows? Lots of sun? Minimum temperature?

For a "1 ton"ish system something like this in theory would work:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/LG-14K-...at-Pump-Package
https://www.ecomfort.com/Fujitsu-F2...000/p65937.html

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



bitprophet posted:

Thanks, and condolences.

Nah this would all be for little ol me in my spacious two room “suite” of a home office, so I’d expect to set the two heads to complementary temperatures, whatever that ends up being.

My worry with a single head setup is it would make the two spaces uneven, eg the smaller space would get too hot before the larger one received enough warm air to be comfortable.

It depends on a lot of things.

How free is air movement between the two spaces
How good/bad is the insulation between the two spaces, and again between each space and any unconditioned spaces (aka outside walls?)
Windows?
Uneven solar loads?

If any of these are a concern and you Must have good temp control in both areas, then two heads is what you want.

bitprophet
Jul 22, 2004


Taco Defender

The two rooms are joined by a wide (don't have measurement to hand but it's got to be at least 6'), non doored 'doorway', with the smaller room an extra foot or so deeper (as in the ceiling is the same level as the larger room, but the floor is down a couple steps). I'm likely to bounce between the rooms somewhat randomly so I'm considering myself as "occupying" both, re: comfort levels.

Small room is 12x12 feet, ceiling slopes from 9' high to 12', so by my reckoning that's 1,512 cubic feet.

Larger room is 12x20, ceiling slopes from 7.5' high to 11', giving 2,220 cubic feet.

The rooms are on the south end of the house and have a decent amount of windows and a sliding door in the smaller room; however that smaller room has heavy wooden blinds on all of the glass. No idea on the wall insulation but these rooms were added probably somewhere in the 70s-90s (vs 1930s for rest of house) so I'd expect it to be "okayish".

Posted a 3-image imgur album with the layout (up is southwest) and some lovely shots of the rooms/doorway from when we first saw the place, for context.

Also ran through eComfort's little calculator again with as many details as I can cram into it (last time I did this exercise I had fewer measurements/observations, so this time I was able to pick the right things re: windows, doors, exact facings, insulation guess, exposure, etc) and it thinks the small room wants 6100 cooling BTU and 5600 heating; the large room 4500 cooling and 5600 heating. Guessing the smaller room needs more cooling due to higher ceiling and windows+sliding door.

So that would very roughly jive with H110Hawk's suggestion of 2x7k BTU. The first contractor was pitching a 9k+12k two-header...real interested now to see what the second one is going to say (esp as she has like 2 days to run the numbers).

Thanks for all the feedback; going to see what low-ambient Mitsu/Fujitsu I can scrounge up to throw model numbers at the first guy.

IndianaZoidberg
Aug 21, 2011

My name isnt slick, its Zoidberg. JOHN F***ING ZOIDBERG!

There's an HVAC thread? Cool!

I have a question about my AC unit before I call building maintenance. I live in an apartment that has independent AC units per apartment on the roof for central AC. There's no building-wide system, it's all per unit. Furnace and blower in the unit and AC unit on the roof.

The other day I noticed that the floor outside my furnace/bower room was quite cold. I think its because the coil was frozen and the cold air from ice on the coil was falling to the floor and out the door. I turned off my AC (at the thermostat) for 6ish hours to let it melt and everything was fine after that...for two days.

Yesterday I noticed the same thing. So I turned off the AC (at the thermostat) and about 12 hours later I walked passed it and the floor was still cold and I can hear what I think sounds like gas expanding in the cooling coil. It kind of sounds like a valve or a pump is still running. I turned on the fan and could hear ice cracking. Probably not good.

Any advice on what's causing this so I can tell the building maintenance team and for my own knowledge?

I also can not access the furnace/blower or AC unit. The AC unit is on the roof and the doors to the roof are locked, and the furnace in my own apartment is in a locked closet that I also don't have the key for. So no physical access. I know I need to have the maintenance look at it, but with everyone in self-isolation, I'm waiting until that's absolutely necessary.

Edit: I turned off the AC (not the furnace, I want the condensate pump to keep running when its needed) at the breaker panel and the noise I heard that I think was the gas expanding or a pump or a stuck valve or something, stopped.

IndianaZoidberg fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Apr 17, 2020

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


I'm not in Hvac.... but a good question that may help diagnose.. What is the outside temp and what is your set temp. Every spring/ summer my apartment's newsletter reminds everyone to not set their ac below 68 F because the coils may freeze causing issues.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


IndianaZoidberg posted:

There's an HVAC thread? Cool!

I have a question about my AC unit before I call building maintenance. I live in an apartment that has independent AC units per apartment on the roof for central AC. There's no building-wide system, it's all per unit. Furnace and blower in the unit and AC unit on the roof.

The other day I noticed that the floor outside my furnace/bower room was quite cold. I think its because the coil was frozen and the cold air from ice on the coil was falling to the floor and out the door. I turned off my AC (at the thermostat) for 6ish hours to let it melt and everything was fine after that...for two days.

Yesterday I noticed the same thing. So I turned off the AC (at the thermostat) and about 12 hours later I walked passed it and the floor was still cold and I can hear what I think sounds like gas expanding in the cooling coil. It kind of sounds like a valve or a pump is still running. I turned on the fan and could hear ice cracking. Probably not good.

Any advice on what's causing this so I can tell the building maintenance team and for my own knowledge?

I also can not access the furnace/blower or AC unit. The AC unit is on the roof and the doors to the roof are locked, and the furnace in my own apartment is in a locked closet that I also don't have the key for. So no physical access. I know I need to have the maintenance look at it, but with everyone in self-isolation, I'm waiting until that's absolutely necessary.

Edit: I turned off the AC (not the furnace, I want the condensate pump to keep running when its needed) at the breaker panel and the noise I heard that I think was the gas expanding or a pump or a stuck valve or something, stopped.

Not an HVAC person, but when my previous system was running low on refrigerant, the coil would freeze up. So in my experience a freezing coil indicates a low refrigerant charge. I replaced the coil at my previous house that was leaking due to formicary corrosion and the issue went away.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

skipdogg posted:

Not an HVAC person, but when my previous system was running low on refrigerant, the coil would freeze up. So in my experience a freezing coil indicates a low refrigerant charge. I replaced the coil at my previous house that was leaking due to formicary corrosion and the issue went away.

Low refrigerant and low airflow are the common culprits here. (change your filters!)

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012



If you cannot access either outside or indoor unit, the answer is complain to your complex management until they fix it.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Has anyone had any experience or have any thoughts on the Trane FreshEffects? I've been thinking of having one installed to help with house air exchange, but haven't been able to find many user experiences for it.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.

Megamarm

Maybe the wrong thread, but can you set a Nest up so that it doesn't run during a set hour period automatically, or do you need to manually create a calendar to cool to a specified temperature and hope it doesn't creep above that during your peak cost time?
I poked around a bit in the app and didn't really find what I was looking for. I'm on this plan:



e: I figured it out

BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 25, 2020

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


IndianaZoidberg posted:

Edit: I turned off the AC (not the furnace, I want the condensate pump to keep running when its needed) at the breaker panel and the noise I heard that I think was the gas expanding or a pump or a stuck valve or something, stopped.

Sounds like maybe the outside unit is running non-stop, instead of shutting off with the thermostat?

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



For a new house with forced air heating is almost $10,000 a sane price for a new install 4 ton AC unit in any state? (but more importantly, in California).

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


Depends, what brand? My Midea 3 ton split unit was $2500 in parts and shipping, but expect probably another few hundred to a thousand in materials and installation (since you already have central air) and the rest is gonna be their labor rate plus whatever brand and size difference costs.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Aquila posted:

For a new house with forced air heating is almost $10,000 a sane price for a new install 4 ton AC unit in any state? (but more importantly, in California).

I mean who knows in Cali, but in Mississippi I just got a 4 ton AC installed for $6,000 so that seems expensive. But it def could depend on SEER and brand.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


BonoMan posted:

I mean who knows in Cali, but in Mississippi I just got a 4 ton AC installed for $6,000 so that seems expensive. But it def could depend on SEER and brand.

That sounds about right for a replacement of an existing AC unit. I was quoted similar at my old house.

Id want clarification from OP though, the words new install might mean the house didnt have central air before so ductwork, extra labor, etc are involved which would make 10k more reasonable

Brand, features, etc also make a difference. Hard to say without more specifics. 10k for a basic 13 seer Goodman unit might be outrageous, but a fancier variable speed high seer system not so much

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.


I mean they said new house with forced air heating so all the ducting should be there I would think. As long as there's a suitably large spot to retrofit the evap unit or coil into the ducting I don't see how it's more than like a one or maybe two day install.

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



kastein posted:

Depends, what brand? My Midea 3 ton split unit was $2500 in parts and shipping, but expect probably another few hundred to a thousand in materials and installation (since you already have central air) and the rest is gonna be their labor rate plus whatever brand and size difference costs.

Lennox EL16XC1-048 (mid range, 16 seer, single speed).


skipdogg posted:

That sounds about right for a replacement of an existing AC unit. I was quoted similar at my old house.

I’d want clarification from OP though, the words “new install” might mean the house didn’t have central air before so ductwork, extra labor, etc are involved which would make 10k more reasonable

Brand, features, etc also make a difference. Hard to say without more specifics. 10k for a basic 13 seer Goodman unit might be outrageous, but a fancier variable speed high seer system not so much

So my house does have forced air heating (gas furnace), but is not "plumbed"/ac ready. This means they'll need to run the power to the condenser and the coolant lines to the coil. Vents should be good, air handler I don't know.

ExplodingSims
Aug 17, 2010

RAGDOLL
FLIPPIN IN A MOVIE
HOT DAMN
THINK I MADE A POOPIE




Yeah, Lennox is going to be more expensive, but if they need to run power, lineset, etc for the new condenser and evap, than $10000 is pretty reasonable for a new install.

Hdip
Aug 21, 2002


It looks like my question was basically just answered. 1700ish SF house built in 1979. The central air isn't currently working. I want the whole system replaced as it's over 15 years old at least. Shade on the house only in the early morning and evening. Mostly old windows. Cool roof comp shingle replaced within the last 5 years. I just had one company come out to give me a qoute today so I'm waiting for that.

Anyone in the San Fernando Valley, CA want to come out and give me a qoute too?

If the price doesn't scare me away I'm doing new heat and ducting too. Anything specific I should be looking at or asking when I receive the estimate?

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



ExplodingSims posted:

Yeah, Lennox is going to be more expensive, but if they need to run power, lineset, etc for the new condenser and evap, than $10000 is pretty reasonable for a new install.

After running all the numbers more carefully it now stands: $7,000 Carrier 3 ton SEER 14, $7,400 Airtemp 4 ton SEER 14, $8,900 Airtemp 4 ton SEER 16, $8,000 Lennox 4 ton SEER 16. I've asked for a 4 ton Carrier quote for apples to apples.

AFewBricksShy
Jun 19, 2003

of a full load.



I need to get a new heating and AC system in my house. My old ac (which was replaced roughly sometime in 2007) went (the fan and capacitor went on the outside unit), and the heater (which is 30 years old) has a cracked heat exchanger.

I've gotten 2 quotes. One from Horizon (who is a local place that advertises all over). It's kind of the "anderson replacement windows" of the area. The other is from a local guy.

My house is 2500 feet, 2 stories, in the Philly suburbs.

Horizon's quote:
Lennox SL280V 135 variable speed furnace with a Lennox EL16xC1 ac CX35 Coil (17 Seer) - $15,000
10 Part/ 10 labor

Local guy:
York TM87 800% two stage variable speed furnace with a York YCS60 AC and cf60B coil (14.25 seer) - $6,800
10 part/5 labor

I knew horizon was going to be high, but this is absurdly high. I realize the 17 Seer is going to be more efficient, but I'm not crazy in going with the local guy, right?

Motronic posted:

Somebody's got to pay to keep those ads on the zamboni.

Or the planes at the beach, or the billboards, or the scoreboards...

AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 7, 2020

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

AFewBricksShy posted:

I knew horizon was going to be high, but this is absurdly high.

Somebody's got to pay to keep those ads on the zamboni.

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