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:crying modbus:
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Dec 9, 2020 01:12
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Reposting this from the fix-it megathread since I didn't get any responses if that's cool. I'm a renter with one of these Williams wall furnaces right in the middle of my living room (not this exact model but you get the idea):  It's in good working order - the intake fan motor was just replaced this year - but man the intake fan is just irritatingly loud. It's behind the grill at the top, which is roughly 14" by 18". Is there some kind of vent cap or other thing I could temporarily attach over it that would allow air to flow to maintain the fan's performance, but reduce the noise? And it would need to be low-impact and easily removable in case I need to move out. I've been searching and searching and there doesn't seem to be a good option beyond custom fabricating some kind of metal vent cover.
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Dec 9, 2020 03:48
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I'm not an HVAC expert, but if you want to make a baffle like you posted in the other thread, I'd make it out of foam board something like this that way you get a little more sound deadening, do it up with painter's tape. As long as you maintain a greater volume than the intake grill you should be good?
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Dec 9, 2020 04:09
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That's pretty cool, I had no idea bacnet existed. I wonder why it's not bigger in resi hardware, maybe perceived cost?MRC48B posted::crying modbus: Ethernet and canbus are better than modbus, sorry, I don't make the rules 
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Dec 9, 2020 04:49
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So I've got a quote for a replacement on my existing 45K BTU rheem unit that was installed in 1979. The unit still works fine though. Is there any reason to replace it before it dies outside of having some chilly nights while I wait when it does break? (This is California. It never gets danger cold.)
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Dec 9, 2020 08:48
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kastein posted:That's pretty cool, I had no idea bacnet existed. I wonder why it's not bigger in resi hardware, maybe perceived cost? There's no technical reason Nest couldn't have a local REST API on the thermostat itself, it's just a Linux computer with a few GPIOs connected to SSRs, but that doesn't benefit Google and the majority of buyers don't give the slightest bit of a gently caress. And of course don't even get me started on the average non-technical consumer's belief that wireless everything is a great idea.
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Dec 9, 2020 16:43
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kastein posted:That's pretty cool, I had no idea bacnet existed. I wonder why it's not bigger in resi hardware, maybe perceived cost? Modbus TCP to save the day!
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Dec 9, 2020 17:08
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wolrah posted:And of course don't even get me started on the average non-technical consumer's belief that wireless everything is a great idea. Oh no
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Dec 9, 2020 17:34
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wolrah posted:Different market forces, the consumer market prioritizes low cost and ease of installation over interoperability and long term supportability. Not to mention the possibility for ongoing data gathering through tying devices to a cloud service. I am a mature adult who is a professional. Also, technical people can be some of the worst when it comes to thinking wireless-everything is a great idea.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:07
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wolrah posted:There's no technical reason Nest couldn't have a local REST API on the thermostat itself, it's just a Linux computer with a few GPIOs connected to SSRs, but that doesn't benefit Google and the majority of buyers don't give the slightest bit of a gently caress. I keep hoping someone will release a root and custom firmware for the Nest that does this so I could at least make mine somewhat useful.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:23
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H110Hawk posted:I am a mature adult who is a professional. Also, technical people can be some of the worst when it comes to thinking wireless-everything is a great idea. On the other part I think we need to be careful to divide gadget people from technical people. Both tend to like to have tech in their homes, but the choices made and reasons for those choices tend to differ significantly. Of course it's not black and white, there's plenty of overlap in this venn diagram, but at least in my experience those who actually understand at least the basics of how wired and wireless communications work tend to prefer wires where practical. Those who see it as more or less magic tend to be the ones who want wireless everything even when it doesn't make sense. corgski posted:I keep hoping someone will release a root and custom firmware for the Nest that does this so I could at least make mine somewhat useful. Annoyingly some of the earlier models even had a ZigBee radio but it was never used. edit: I just had a horrifying thought of someone trying to implement communication to dampers and such using the HVAC ducting itself as the medium for something like a one-wire protocol. edit2: Did a bit of searching around to see if anyone had done further work on jailbreaking, the answer seems to be a hard no, but it was pointed out on the original jailbreak that at some point Nest dropped a package that will supposedly build you a complete bootable firmware for one of the first two generation models, minus the Google proprietary software (the GUI and control software) but it doesn't look like anything's really come from that either. http://opensource.nest.com/NestLearningThermostat/4.x%20Opensource/nestlabs-open-source.tgz https://nest-open-source.googlesource.com/ wolrah fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 19:49
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Elviscat posted:I'm not an HVAC expert, but if you want to make a baffle like you posted in the other thread, I'd make it out of foam board something like this that way you get a little more sound deadening, do it up with painter's tape. That's a great idea, thanks! Just ordered some. But to be clear - what you mean is that the volume of the intake grill would be its dimensions multiplied (i.e. 14" x 18" x 1" = 252 sq in) and the volume of whatever I create should exceed that?
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Dec 9, 2020 22:10
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wolrah posted:IIRC there was root for the first-gen model, but it wasn't particularly useful. That model was also the one known for the SSR failures, AFAIK the newer ones redesigned the base to avoid these problems. Oh, what? If this is true, then I might as well just keep the Nest Thermostat E pair I bought.
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Dec 10, 2020 01:11
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quote:That's pretty cool, I had no idea bacnet existed. I wonder why it's not bigger in resi hardware, maybe perceived cost? its really hard to beat a handful of dry contacts and a bimetallic strip on cost. especially when the cost difference of 18-5 vs low-capacitance twisted pair is nothing when the labor of running it is counted. kastein posted:
no doubt, but if you were going to have a residential hvac standard for serial communication, modbus would be a place to start due to its extreme simplicity, it's basically the serial comm version of a bunch of wires and dry contact relays. For anyone who wants to mess around with bacnet, I would recommend Contemporary Controls system of hat and system images for the raspi as probably the least expensive way to get into it.
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Dec 10, 2020 02:10
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MRC48B posted:its really hard to beat a handful of dry contacts and a bimetallic strip on cost. Well true, until a dry contact gets stuck half-on or only one fails and the $0.49 saved burns up fifteen hundred bucks worth of compressor and service time, but that's not the sellers problem I suppose.
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Dec 10, 2020 02:20
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Yeah, but that also happens with the multi-million dollar bacnet automation systems, only add another few zeroes to the bill. Bacnet is just a messaging and addressing standard, like TCP/IP. fault-tolerance and fail safes are still up to the implementation. ask me about why its important to have airflow proof switches on your steam humidity supply to your biotech lab. MRC48B fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 02:30
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My aircon system in my house was installed abysmally bad. There's no hooked up return from the second floor to the air handler in the basement, so it basically doesn't cool the second floor in the summer. Heating works fine because the cold air flows down into the basement naturally and they installed a vent in the return line down there to pull in air from the basement since the furnace/air handler was starved for air (like sucking on a straw with your finger on the end) without it. I was thinking about my plan for how to fix it this coming year and I came up with these few options: 1: Have someone rip up my ceiling and walls to properly connect the return, probably disrupt the use of my house for a few weeks and given the other fuckups the origioal installer had, who knows if it'll actually totally fix the problem. 2: Get ductless installed. I've gotten a few quotes and they range from 15k to 22k depending on the brand and features. They were quoting systems for each of the bedrooms (3) and one wall unit for the first floor as well to more or less totally replace my existing HVAC system. 3: Get some window units from the second floor and maybe one for the first floor so I can just turn off the ducted AC in the summer and use it for heat in the winter. I found these units on amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Midea-Inverter-Conditioner-Flexibility-Installation/dp/B08677DCKN/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1 which if I bought 3 8k btu units for the bedrooms and then maybe a 12k btu for the first floor I'd have more or less the same cooling capability of the mini-split ductless for about $1500 or less (although no heat pump for the winter) and they integrate with google home so I can use that to treat it like one cohesive cooling solution rather than having to deal with 4 separate ac units. They all say they can ramp down to 2k btu of cooling since they are inverter driven so I don't think doing that would be over doing the size of the cooling? My house is ~1500 sqr feet and the current ac unit is 2 tons (or 24k btu I think). But if they can all ramp down smoothly that would mean that shouldn't be oversized I think? It seems like option 3 is my best solution to my problem? Is there some long term downside I'm not considering here like my heater being likely to fail completely in a few years because of these vent and return issues, and I'll need to go with 1 or 2 soon eventually anyway?
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Dec 16, 2020 17:59
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Nitrousoxide posted:It seems like option 3 is my best solution to my problem? Window shakers are universally unmitigated poo poo. Not only are they blocking a window they are loud and inefficient. There are only two correct ways to address this. Your "1" doesn't go far enough. The thing needs to be zoned. Or you need to add an AC unit just for the second floor (that's what I have in my house). You "2" is the least expensive and least intrusive way to fix this in a way that is comfortable and energy efficient.
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Dec 16, 2020 18:06
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Motronic posted:Window shakers are universally unmitigated poo poo. Not only are they blocking a window they are loud and inefficient. The one I linked to seems to be quite a bit quieter than a normal one. I’ve looked at the reviews, including some video reviews and they were in the 40 db’s for the volume of it while on, and this one is energy star rated. Would you still advise against it?
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Dec 16, 2020 18:52
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Maybe see if you can get some baffles (zones) going to force the cold air in the summer to come out in the 2nd floor and not as much in the 1st floor. This might require some tweaking to not raise the pressure in your system too high, but it might get the air in your house mixing. This is also something you can do relatively cheaply and see if it works out enough, but it will depend on what you discover mapping the ductwork. If you have a dedicated second floor trunk it could be all you need. If you use electricity for heating then the minisplits should greatly improve your efficiency if you can set them and leave them alone outside of minor tweaks. Is your house well insulated? If you're going to make a mess anyways you should fix that at the same time - it will probably pay for itself in a year or two. Maybe have a home energy audit done, you might be able to get some rebates back for some of this work, minisplits are very efficient/energy-star-y. Nitrousoxide posted:The one I linked to seems to be quite a bit quieter than a normal one. I’ve looked at the reviews, including some video reviews and they were in the 40 db’s for the volume of it while on, and this one is energy star rated. That is going to be 40db at their most energy efficient/lowest setting. I assume if it gets hot out they start ripping. You also leak a ton of air around the unit/window typically, plus do you even have enough power on your second floor to run 3 of these? Though the U-shape should help with that immensely. Edit edit: You know, 47 is the high side, who knows maybe they've gotten a lot better. https://www.midea.com/us/Air-Conditioners/Window-Air-Conditioners/8,000-BTU-U-shaped-Air-Conditioner-MAW08V1QWT H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 18:54
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Brand new window units (especially the high-end LG units) are far better than even what we had ten years ago in terms of efficiency and noise, and an order of magnitude better than the 80s and 90s units we all remember but that doesn’t make them good, just less bad. A mini-split or fixing your ducting would be preferable in every way if you can afford the additional expense.
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Dec 16, 2020 20:12
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Stupid question, but is there anything special about the condensate drain on a gas pack? Roofer smashed it to bits and I'm going to ask them to fix it, but I need to know if I need to have them send out a HVAC tech, or if some guy with PVC from LowesDepot can do it. It's nothing crazy, just a clean out, trap, and like a 3' run of pipe away from the house.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:15
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As long as they only broke the PVC, and not the female threaded bit on the unit.
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Dec 17, 2020 20:08
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angryrobots posted:As long as they only broke the PVC, and not the female threaded bit on the unit. OK that's good, because they already sent some guy with PVC from LowesDepot and he finished up before lunch. Looks like there was enough intact to just cut off the broken edges and piece it all back together. Wasn't as bad as it had looked, it seems, so we're all good.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:54
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Thanks for the advice. I'm a bit more sceptical about the window unit now, but that said, if I can get 80% of the function of a mini split for 5-10% of the cost that would probably be worth it. I think what I'll do is get just one unit come spring and see how effective, efficient, quiet, and capable at integrating into my smart home setup it is. If it fails that then I'm just out 200-300 bucks and I can put the cash down on a proper setup, but if I'm happy with it than I can go in the rest of the way with the window unit.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:20
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Okay So doing some remodeling. house built in 1960's (package unit) I had a air return that was at floor level. opened up the wall and removed the soffit. installed a return air box in the ceiling. I have a buddy who works as a hvac tech to his credit he's saved me a load of money here and there. But there have been issues that cause me to question him. (other matters I should air online) I have a 20/30 box with a 18" collar. He says to loop the flex duct in order to reduce noise. He s been flaking on me alot (to the point I bought my own ziptie gun and have been doing things myself. I figure I m gonna be hooking up that air return to the unit and want to know if he s correct about looping the flex duct for noise Also merry christmas Thanks
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Dec 23, 2020 13:48
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I'm not sure this is the right thread, but my dishwasher sprung a leak, and now the space underneath my laminate kitchen floor is soaked. I was hoping for some recommendations for a dehumidifier to purchase to help dry it all out. Also, the insulation in the basement ceiling underneath the kitchen is now pretty wet. Can a dehumidifier generally deal with that, too? Quixzlizx fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 00:44
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You're well beyond a dehumidifier only to remediate this. Chances are good you're better off with some fans rather than a dehumidifier.
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Dec 24, 2020 00:56
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Call a flooding/water damage remediation company. They will cut holes in your basement ceiling and connect fans to dry it out. It will be expensive, but effective. Or you roll the dice, try and DIY, and see if you get mold.
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Dec 24, 2020 01:03
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If you do want to go the diy route buy several of these or similar high output blowers and put something like one in your kitchen and at least two in your basement blowing air through the damp areas. https://www.homedepot.com/p/B-Air-1..._-207012958-_-N Also tear out any soft insulation and drywall that got wet and just replace it after you dry it the structure out. corgski fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 01:11
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Alright, thanks for the advice. I'm definitely not on the handy end of the scale, so I'll take your word for it if you're saying I need professional help. It's just that I've never had a problem of this magnitude since becoming a homeowner, so I won't even know if I'm being ripped off.
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Dec 24, 2020 01:19
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Quixzlizx posted:Alright, thanks for the advice. I'm definitely not on the handy end of the scale, so I'll take your word for it if you're saying I need professional help. It's just that I've never had a problem of this magnitude since becoming a homeowner, so I won't even know if I'm being ripped off. You will be, if it gets too much to stomach call your homeowners insurance. I would try to do that only over $10k. Some places are nicer than others when the homeowner is paying out of pocket. Edit: If you're in the Pasadena/LA area this guy: http://trojancarpetcare.com/ actually did sane homeowner pricing. Super nice guy, in and out, on time and prepared. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 01:27
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Quixzlizx posted:Alright, thanks for the advice. I'm definitely not on the handy end of the scale, so I'll take your word for it if you're saying I need professional help. It's just that I've never had a problem of this magnitude since becoming a homeowner, so I won't even know if I'm being ripped off. So in the interest of giving you an idea what to expect since you haven't been through this before, here's the proper way for a restoration company to handle your job going through insurance. None of this is written in stone, absolutely the only option, it's just industry standard stuff - I've also obviously not seen the extent of the damage, how much water dripped, etc. If it's like, a gallon of water, then this is overkill - Your laminate should come out, because a) It's likely gonna swell and be damaged anyway and b) even if it's a nice water resistant style, it's trapping water between itself and your subfloor, creating a great environment for mold growth. Your insulation needs to come out. It won't dry, even if they use their fancy air injection equipment. That will prevent the joists and subfloor above it from drying. If you remove the drywall and insulation from below, you can *maaaaaaaaybe* salvage the laminate, but you're relying on the hope that as you dry the subfloor from below with lots of air movement and dehumidication, it'll sop up the water sitting between it and the laminate quickly enough to avoid any further damage to the laminate or any mold growth starting. If the laminate runs continuously throughout the house, this option might be worth at least trying. Cabinets. Depending on their construction and the extent of the water damage, they may need to be removed. Sometimes you can just pop the toekick off and throw an airmover at them. Anyways, I don't say any of this to spook you or doom and gloom. I hope I'm misunderstanding the scope of the damage, but if it's what I'm picturing, you should be bracing yourself for a bit more than you may be expecting in order to do the job properly.
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Dec 24, 2020 02:04
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Recommend me a whole house humidifier. My wife and I are tired of 20% RH all winter long, so I've been looking into an Aprilaire 500 or 400 digital control models, but I'm not sure of the pros and cons to each. I know the 500 requires a drain and the 400 does not, but I've got the option of a drain if one is better than the other. Home is 1800sqft finished, 900sqft unfinished basement. I've got easy access to water and a drain at the furnace, and I'm handy enough that I'm not worried about DIY on this project. Or steer me towards better equipment if it exists. We've dealt with humidifiers in the bedrooms for the last couple years, but they're enough of a pain that I want something that I can deal with once a month or less, rather than every night.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:01
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H110Hawk posted:You will be, if it gets too much to stomach call your homeowners insurance. I would try to do that only over $10k. What is insurance for, if not the Pandora's box that is major water damage?
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Dec 24, 2020 03:01
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angryrobots posted:What is insurance for, if not the Pandora's box that is major water damage? Mostly if you get the initial remediation / demo done and realize it's only a few grand total then I wouldn't make a claim. If you discover you need a ton of remediation and rebuilding work then you can still make a claim and your adjuster will be happy you didn't wait for them to start abatement.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:06
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Slugworth posted:Can confirm, you're gonna pay big money if you pay out of pocket. The restoration industry is geared 100 percent towards insurance claims, and priced accordingly. The subfloor beneath my kitchen sink (the area directly adjacent to my dishwasher), is damp, with no standing water. I can access the subfloor there because a leak from decades ago, caused by a previous owner, left a hole in the middle of the bottom of that cabinet. I can't really get underneath my dishwasher, because one corner of the bottom plate is jammed and I can't get the entire thing off, but from what I can tell with a flashlight, it's also damp, with no standing water. My dad tells me that the dishwasher isn't actually on top of the subfloor. The bottom corners of my kitchen sink cabinet and the corners of the cabinet sharing a side with the kitchen sink cabinet are damp. Some of the laminate floorboards have some swelling. Regarding my basement, my kitchen is luckily above the unfinished corner of my basement, so it's just exposed insulation there. There's one drop ceiling tile adjacent to that unfinished area with water staining. I have no idea how much water ultimately leaked, but there was never anything worse than a slow drip into the basement, as in single drops 5-15 seconds apart, so nothing like streams of water coming down.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:17
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H110Hawk posted:Mostly if you get the initial remediation / demo done and realize it's only a few grand total then I wouldn't make a claim. That's what you pay insurance for. Do you have some irrational fear of your premium going up? Cause it probably won't, and if they do raise it more than the annual market adjustment, you shop around and switch.
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Dec 24, 2020 15:26
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Update: I had someone come in to do a free estimate this morning, and he basically agreed with what you were all saying. He said the flooring is shot and needs to come up for remediation regardless of whether or not I replace it, and that the cabinets have soaked in enough moisture where it's going to be tough to completely dry them out. The good news is the damage seems pretty localized and he didn't read any moisture in my walls. He also thinks, at first glance, that the basement should be OK other than replacing the insulation. He said he'd probably end up charging $1500-$2k out of pocket if all I wanted was remediation and to have the toekicks of the cabinets taken off so they could try drying them out. But he recommended just getting everything replaced through insurance, since he thinks it's an open-and-shut case.
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Dec 24, 2020 16:12
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angryrobots posted:That's what you pay insurance for. Do you have some irrational fear of your premium going up? Cause it probably won't, and if they do raise it more than the annual market adjustment, you shop around and switch. This is basically what I was suggesting: Quixzlizx posted:Update: I had someone come in to do a free estimate this morning, and he basically agreed with what you were all saying. He said the flooring is shot and needs to come up for remediation regardless of whether or not I replace it, and that the cabinets have soaked in enough moisture where it's going to be tough to completely dry them out. The good news is the damage seems pretty localized and he didn't read any moisture in my walls. He also thinks, at first glance, that the basement should be OK other than replacing the insulation. Because your insurance claims follow you to new carriers via CLUE. If you made a claim and it turned out to be $2000 in "dry it out", another $2000 in misc repair, then the claim was a wasted hit and loss of any claim free discount you have. Maybe our homeowner got lucky and their basement meant it drained all the water out fast enough to only damage some subfloor, but the LVP on top stayed dry enough. Maybe it turns out this wasn't "sudden" and has been leaking back there for months - that opens you up to a denial for a bulk of the work and you still lose your claim free discount. I think it's prudent to take step 1, which is the same regardless, of get someone out there to start drying it out ASAP - today if you can, tomorrow if you must. Open the windows, blast your HVAC system, etc in the interim if that would help. I assume this means you're an adjuster - are you going to be mad that a homeowner took steps to stop further damage? We also don't know their other claim history, maybe this would be the straw that broke the camels back because it's claim #2 and the last one was also water related, now they're non-renewed and shopping for this theoretical $4000 claim. Now if they were describing catastrophic multi-room flooding? Yeah step 1 is call up Jake at State Farm and tell them "so uh, there is an inch of standing water in 3 rooms, what do I do?" The answer will be "here is claim #123 call up servpro and tell them that, they will handle the rest. Do you think you will need alternate accommodations?" So to answer your question: Yes, but not to the extent you propose/assume. 
H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 16:43
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