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Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

uPen posted:

Outer Wilds is quite good.

Yeah, it's strange because the gameplay loops are completely different, and Outer Wilds is definitely not a survival game, but these games feel like they're the same...


I think it has to do with the hand-crafted gameworlds and bittersweet narratives. The lack of a usable in-game map also makes both of these games stand out as ~places~ in my memory.



Huh...I was also introduced to both games by the Neebs Gaming youtube channel...







Anywho...highly recommend Outer Wilds for a Subnautica in Space!

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Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



Tortured By Flan

Wait for a sale.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Zesty posted:

Wait for a sale.



Outer Wilds is $25 on Steam and I would still recommend it at $45.

...now if they'd just finish Below Zero.

VectorSigma
Jan 20, 2004

Transform
and
Freak Out




Outer Wilds is $16.24 on Epic store now.

Cobbsprite
May 6, 2012

Threatening stuffed animals for fun and profit.

VectorSigma posted:

Outer Wilds is $16.24 on Epic store now.

Yeah, but people don't like Epic because they're attached to the ease of Steam. Valve really won the gamble with that one.

Okan170
Nov 14, 2007

Torpedoes away!


Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:


Anywho...highly recommend Outer Wilds for a Subnautica in Space!

I've had Outer Wilds gifted to me and I'm very curious, but whenever I read about it the idea of resetting every 20 minutes it just fills me with anxiety. Subnautica taps into the chill take-your-time vibe that it seems isn't present in Outer Wilds?

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outer Wilds is chill as hell

mostly

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

I love Outer Wilds, but it can be pretty stressful. The good thing is that the game is all about knowledge, so no matter how many times the game resets you are no worse off.

Fallom
Sep 6, 2008




Fun Shoe

Outer Wilds hits like every major phobia out there

The chill is an illusion!!

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Okan170 posted:

I've had Outer Wilds gifted to me and I'm very curious, but whenever I read about it the idea of resetting every 20 minutes it just fills me with anxiety. Subnautica taps into the chill take-your-time vibe that it seems isn't present in Outer Wilds?

The solar system is a big clock that you're exploring and things are different at different times. You'll probably kill yourself intentionally to explore a different place or time than you will hit the timeout. The only time the timer matters is once you figure out what is happening and have to actually do all the things in a single reset, and that's basically a victory lap as opposed to being stressful.

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."


Outer Wilds also has a VR mod for anyone interested. Not sure how functional it really is but Subnautica's implementation wasn't great either.

khy
Aug 14, 2005



Cobbsprite posted:

Yeah, but people don't like Epic because they're attached to the ease of Steam. Valve really won the gamble with that one.

Personally I like Epic BECAUSE it's not Steam. I don't get spammed with a thousand lovely low-quality asset flips or 'curators' who recommend lovely hentai games because of cartoon tits.

Cobbsprite
May 6, 2012

Threatening stuffed animals for fun and profit.

khy posted:

Personally I like Epic BECAUSE it's not Steam. I don't get spammed with a thousand lovely low-quality asset flips or 'curators' who recommend lovely hentai games because of cartoon tits.

Oh, I'm with you there. I'm on board Team Epic Games Store because I like what they do, especially how they don't hardcore gently caress indie game devs. But we are in the minority.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

Iíd like epic more if it had a Steam link implementation.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

tuyop posted:

Iíd like epic more if it had a Steam link implementation.

I thought it did?

They are pretty liberal with free games and they do $10-off-anything coupons which you can chain together by making >$15 purchases. A good spin on ~Steam Sale~.

khy
Aug 14, 2005



Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

I thought it did?

They are pretty liberal with free games and they do $10-off-anything coupons which you can chain together by making >$15 purchases. A good spin on ~Steam Sale~.

The last few steam sales were disappointing to me because the AAA games on my wishlist had disappointing discounts and they kept shoving indie games I had no interest in in my face constantly.

Meanwhile the Epic Store's $10 coupon chain was amazing, I got a lot of great games cheap. Including Subnautica. Plus their free game giveaways are pretty decent too; I got Slime Rancher, all 3 Arkham games, Just Cause 4, Killing Floor 2, and quite a few other gems from 'em. Steam was just as good when it was growing, then it got too big and turned to poo poo. Epic may do the same but I'm going to enjoy the 'still good while growing' phase for as long as it lasts.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

uPen posted:

and that's basically a victory lap as opposed to being stressful.

I disagree, that is easily the most stressful part of the game. You have enough time to do what you need to do, but not enough that you can afford to make many mistakes.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Oasx posted:

I disagree, that is easily the most stressful part of the game. You have enough time to do what you need to do, but not enough that you can afford to make many mistakes.

You didn't Groundhog Day your final run a few hundred times before doing it ~for real~?

..btt
Mar 26, 2008


khy posted:

Personally I like Epic BECAUSE it's not Steam. I don't get spammed with a thousand lovely low-quality asset flips or 'curators' who recommend lovely hentai games because of cartoon tits.

Personally, I dislike epic store because they're incredibly anti-consumer, and want to kill a platform I own hundreds of games on by exploiting their enormous wallet rather than by being better in any way. I don't really care steam sells games I'm not interested in, I actually see that as a good thing.

I liked outer wilds a lot, but playing it didn't feel anything like subnautica to me.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

With the caveat that I really, really did not like Outer Wilds, I definitely do not think it is chill or relaxing in any way. Although the gimmick is neat, the timer is short and you are scrambling to try stuff out to figure out what's going on before everything resets and you have to get back there to keep trying. I put significant time in, almost 20 hours, and it did not click for me at all.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



Tortured By Flan

Cobbsprite posted:

Yeah, but people don't like Epic because they're attached to the ease of Steam. Valve really won the gamble with that one.

It's already out on steam, and it's cost per hour of playtime to 100% it is not great. Wait for a sale.

khy posted:

Personally I like Epic BECAUSE it's not Steam. I don't get spammed with a thousand lovely low-quality asset flips or 'curators' who recommend lovely hentai games because of cartoon tits.

khy posted:

The last few steam sales were disappointing to me because the AAA games on my wishlist had disappointing discounts and they kept shoving indie games I had no interest in in my face constantly.

...what? I've been using it for over a decade and don't get spammed with anything like that or anything about curators? I literally never encounter curator nonsense? What about it shoves indie games in your face? I have no idea what you're referring to here.

tuyop posted:

Iíd like epic more if it had a Steam link implementation.

Is this a joke about how Epic was snooping around people's computers for their Steam data?

Zesty fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Jul 30, 2020

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

You didn't Groundhog Day your final run a few hundred times before doing it ~for real~?


That would have made me quite frustrated and I would probably have quit the game. I managed to do it on my second try so obviously it isn't hard, just stressful.

The ending made it all worth it though.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outer Wilds' length is close to ideal

not every game needs a hundred hours of grinding or collectible flags

Comte de Saint-Germain
Mar 26, 2001

Snouk but and snouk ben,
I find the smell of an earthly man,
Be he living, or be he dead,
His heart this night shall kitchen my bread.


Okan170 posted:

I've had Outer Wilds gifted to me and I'm very curious, but whenever I read about it the idea of resetting every 20 minutes it just fills me with anxiety. Subnautica taps into the chill take-your-time vibe that it seems isn't present in Outer Wilds?

TBF this usually isn't a problem, the game is very well made, so each "expedition" usually takes about 20m to finish. Usually when the reset comes you are actually looking forward to it.

God it's good.

Just Offscreen
Jun 29, 2006



Zesty posted:

cost per hour of playtime to 100%

I keep running into this idea more and more lately- how is this not considered the most antithetical to fun concept to ever exist?

Like the very notion of judging a game on a how long it takes to finish all the [CONTENT] makes me not want to play it at all.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

I love me some 40-60 hour rpgs, but I certainly don't want every game to be that length.

Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

you wouldn't want to pay a normal price for a movie ticket if the movie was 13 minutes long either.

i'm not defending the mentality, just people like to feel they got a good amount of <thing> for their money, because money doesn't grow on trees


vvv: you're not wrong

Truga fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jul 30, 2020

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

theaters are a scam no matter how good or how long the movie is

Just Offscreen
Jun 29, 2006



Truga posted:

you wouldn't want to pay a normal price for a movie ticket if the movie was 13 minutes long either.
This is a bad comparison- Movies are the length they are because it roughly takes that long to let a story develop and breathe at a pace most audiences can take in.

You cant really compare a 13 and 90 minute movie to a 2 hour and 40 hour on average game. You can have a satisfying experience in a "short" game that doesn't feel rushed.

Theres a big difference between knowing a game is a longer or shorter experience and judging it's worth sight unseen based on how long that proposed experience "should" take.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Seriously this whole "anti-consumer" thing is the biggest most toxic bullshit, and pushing it as an excuse for their lovely industry practices is the biggest reason I have to avoid steam if I can find any possible way to do so. *I'm a consumer*, and I know my interests lie with devs getting a fair share of my money, not with valve trying to dazzle me with nonexistent trading cards. Valve has the opportunity to fix the voluminous issues with their platform, but their response is to play off their customers vs the people who supply their games - it's gross as gently caress.

Valve is digital walmart and I *want* their stranglehold on games to be destroyed.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jul 30, 2020

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles


Truga posted:

you wouldn't want to pay a normal price for a movie ticket if the movie was 13 minutes long either.

i'm not defending the mentality, just people like to feel they got a good amount of <thing> for their money, because money doesn't grow on trees


vvv: you're not wrong

There's an entire industry predicated around the truth that people will pay $10+ for a movie they only want to watch for about 13 minutes.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

Zesty posted:

Is this a joke about how Epic was snooping around people's computers for their Steam data?

No... itís a legitimate desire to play my computer games on my iPad.

Plek
Jul 30, 2009


Much like how I'm forced to chase a show around three or four different streaming services depending on the phase of the moon, I too look forward to games popping up on one of four or more different 'storefronts' that require me to install their bespoke service application.

VectorSigma
Jan 20, 2004

Transform
and
Freak Out




tuyop posted:

No... itís a legitimate desire to play my computer games on my iPad.

I was able to Steam remote play Subnautica by just adding the Epic launcher as a non-Steam game. I was able to do the same with the Rockstar launcher and RDR2.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


Comte de Saint-Germain posted:

TBF this usually isn't a problem, the game is very well made, so each "expedition" usually takes about 20m to finish. Usually when the reset comes you are actually looking forward to it.

Yeah, this.

There were several runs where I had hoped to have juuuuust a minute or two more to figure out a couple of extra thing in the current loop I was exploring, and there were a few moments, where I was mildly frustrated that I had to wait towards the end of the next loop to continue what I had previously been exploring, but there was never a point where it really impacted my enjoyment of the game.

There were so many moments in the game where I legit went "ooooh poo poo, that is amazing", or "holy poo poo, that makes sense now", and each moment was amplified by the fact that I stumbled across a solution or figured something out by happenstance.
It was probably the most rewarding and emotional game I've played in...probably ever.

It's also the only game I can recall where the conclusion actually brought me to tears, specifically the point where the individual melodies of all the Hearthians playing their instruments came together into one melody

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

HONKING IS VIOLENCE


I definitely got Subnautica Vibes from Outer Wilds on a much tighter curve. Both are really chill games with low stakes that have exploration of vast spaces interspersed with bits of terror and tension. I also very much had that same kind of routine of, okay, at first stick close to "home", and slowly getting more confident and more "tools" (the tools in outer wilds are all psychic) to comfortably explore further and deeper and by the end I'm totally comfortable setting out from start off to the far reaches without a second thought.

The only folks I've seen that didn't enjoy Outer Wilds is people have some kind of timerphobia, which I don't think could even be solved by changing timer length. The timer could be set longer than the universe will exist and it would still bug the hell out of some. I guess that's just an inherent risk to the medium, no matter how good something might be, it can't be for everyone because the player themselves is a huge part of the game. Outer Wilds can't be a good game while someone who isn't liking is playing it.

Fangz posted:

Seriously this whole "anti-consumer" thing is the biggest most toxic bullshit, and pushing it as an excuse for their lovely industry practices is the biggest reason I have to avoid steam if I can find any possible way to do so. *I'm a consumer*, and I know my interests lie with devs getting a fair share of my money, not with valve trying to dazzle me with nonexistent trading cards. Valve has the opportunity to fix the voluminous issues with their platform, but their response is to play off their customers vs the people who supply their games - it's gross as gently caress.

Valve is digital walmart and I *want* their stranglehold on games to be destroyed.

Personally don't really have any specific issues with Steam which works how I want it to as far as I can tell. Also having all my games on one service is just the most convenient for me as a consumer. I've bought games on other services, but honestly I usually forget about them, sometimes I purchase them again. Owning DRM-free copies should be ideal but logistically a service to manage my library has advantages I prefer to stick with. That alone isn't a good enough reason to support a company, but unless competitor service can import my steam library into itself, it's got a hurdle I don't think it can hop over. Competition is obviously good, but exclusivity just isn't. Epic also isn't any kind of saviour to take down the tyranny of Steam, they're a publicly traded company using the gross excess of money they made targeting children with casino tricks into gambling away billions of dollars to give an artificial competitive edge instead of actually competing by making the platform better. I'm certainly happy some of Epic's ill-gotten loot is re-distributed to some devs but I'm not sure where this "digital walmart must be destroyed and replaced with digital walmart: legally compelled to maximize profit at all costs" becomes a panacea for anything.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 30, 2020

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Fun Shoe

VectorSigma posted:

I was able to Steam remote play Subnautica by just adding the Epic launcher as a non-Steam game. I was able to do the same with the Rockstar launcher and RDR2.

Whoa thatís an awesome idea. Thank you!

Mason Dixon
Jul 28, 2001

Crimson Butterfly



I started Outer Wilds a while back, but only played maybe an hour. I keep meaning to go back, but then I keep remembering how controlling that ship just felt incredibly awkward and annoying, makes exploring feel like a chore rather than fun. I'd rather navigate the Cyclops in the Lost River any day.

khy
Aug 14, 2005



Zesty posted:

...what? I've been using it for over a decade and don't get spammed with anything like that or anything about curators? I literally never encounter curator nonsense? What about it shoves indie games in your face? I have no idea what you're referring to here.

Back when they first introduced the 'discovery queue' I gave it a try and in the first queue it gave me, 2 out of the 12 games were AAA games I already had on my wishlist and the other 10 were indie stuff I had zero interest in. I declined them all and the second queue was about the same. So I gave up on the discovery queue.

A while later when they finally started allowing visual novels and H Games and the like I was in a discussion group with others, some people shared around some really low quality garbage in a 'LOL look what crap is on Steam now' and I looked at it. Steam took my looking at it as interest because for the next week and a half after doing so it constantly threw lovely asset flips and poor quality VN's into the 'recommended' list on my front page.

Then there's the sales where they keep trying to introduce the awful gimmicks. I don't give a poo poo about whatever collectible system you've introduced in your latest winter sale, all I want is good deals on video games. I have a limited budget and I want to stretch that budget to accomodate as many games as I can. Trading cards, the 'points shop' where you buy animated stickers and emojis and dear god it's all just so stupid. Why do I need all this crap just on a system that I use to buy and play video games?

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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

HONKING IS VIOLENCE


I used the Discovery thing more than one time when it first came out and then I also used it and their store to look at games and poo poo so they could figure out what kind of poo poo I'm typically drawn to because otherwise... how could they know?

Just did it just now, not actually interested in buying anything right now, but it was 8 out of 11 it showed me were games I'd be interested in. Detroit Beyond Human isn't something I necessarily dislike, just not interested. it recommended Persona4G which was a bit weird since I already refunded that game because I didn't like it an hour and half in. Your weird broad dismissal of any game not made by a tiny handful of publishers seems like something you could train it to do too I guess. The Horny Games thing never pops up in my discovery queue but it is weird they put those sales up on their front page best-selling lists and such. Definitely please put all that erotica into a special erotica zone oh yeah and a corollary Steam gripe I just thought of: Remember my DOB please, my Steam account is almost of age by now.

I do agree Steams sales gimmicks have gotten increasingly dumb. I'll admit I liked trading cards only because I was able to make a 100 bucks from idling my purchases to sell the cards back in the day, but overall really not interested in gamifying "shopping." I've basically ignored every gimmick though, they still sell games at a discount so their gimmicks don't really matter and they got rid of that stupid flash sale poo poo so when a Sale starts I know what the discounts actually are.

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