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Snak posted:Right, but uh, in the context of the show, and the comic, Lucifer IS "The Devil" and ALSO a separate character from Satan. So it's not really related to that mix-up. Isn't all this sourced back to Paradise Lost? Since the role of Satan was cast as Lucifer. It gets confusing, since Samael and Satan are interchangeable at times in the Talmud. Although Satan appears to be more of a title (accuser), and Samael roughly means "God's Poison/Venom". The are probably other sources, but the only thing I've seen that actually has Lucifer and Satan as two different people is Steven Brust's brilliant To Reign In Hell, told from the POV of Satan. Other than the Lucifer Comic that is. And Gaiman's Lucifer and Hell seems to be inspired by Brust's novel.
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May 18, 2017 14:59
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Tiggum posted:I don't think any of this is particularly accurate. There's certainly a lot of interpretation involved in reconciling the various bits of the Bible with each other, but that doesn't apply any more to Satan/Lucifer than it does to God or various other characters and events. Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think "Lucifer" is even a specific character in the Bible? Depends on the translation. Satan was definitely a title used for Samael (whose name is God's Poison/Venom) in the Talmud. It meant Accuser. The King James version holds that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same. But there's a lot of evidence it was used to describe a Babylonian King who thought he was a god, but wasn't. There is an entire Christian movement that maintains that the KJV of the Bible is the authoritative English version. Most modern incarnations of Christianity don't doctrinally conflate Lucifer with the Devil or Satan. Although many of their congregation may, due to exposure to Paradise Lost (which uses a KJV representation, I believe) and the countless stories based off it. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer quote:The Hebrew words הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (Helel ben Shaḥar, "day-star, son of the morning") in Isaiah 14:12 are part of a prophetic vision against an oppressive king of Babylon. quote:However, the understanding of the morning star in Isaiah 14:12 as a metaphor referring to a king of Babylon continued also to exist among Christians. Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393 – c. 457) wrote that Isaiah calls the king "morning star", not as being the star, but as having had the illusion of being it. The same understanding is shown in Christian translations of the passage, which in English generally use "morning star" rather than treating the word as a proper name, "Lucifer". So too in other languages, such as French, German, Portuguese, and Spanish. Even the Vulgate text in Latin is printed with lower-case lucifer (morning star), not upper-case Lucifer (proper name). quote:Adherents of the King James Only movement and others who hold that Isaiah 14:12 does indeed refer to the devil have decried the modern translations. e: wording and spelling Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 03:47 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 03:39
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Snak posted:Also the man character would be more charismatic if he was just played by a cardboard standup. There's a reason for that, and there is definite growth and development of John, but eh, if the show's not for you it's not for you. I consider it some of the best TV ever (along with Legion), but like others have said it shows only glimmers of what it eventually becomes during the 1st season which is annoying. I think CBS had far more input and Nolan was going along to get along so he could get at least a multi-season deal out of it. It completely goes off the rails (in a fantastically good way) mid 2nd season and only occasionally does a "Oh yeah, we're a procedural" episode unrelated to the overarching plot. You can definitely see the seeds of what Nolan does with Westworld in the last couple of seasons of PoI.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:27
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The Lord Bude posted:I loved that show so much. I was devastated when they cancelled it. Same. I do appreciate that they managed to wrap up the main arc after they got the cancel order.
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Jun 26, 2017 04:59
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hatelull posted:So is the new chief of police the sinner man/some immortal being? He didn't shake Lucifer's hand, nor did he shake Chloe's. This the long con for the season? You mean Lieutenant Pierce(Tom Welling)? I'm leaning toward God's Emissary, not the Sinner Man. And I'm thinking he's there to help/guide Amenadiel and *not* Lucifer. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 22:29
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Dongattack posted:Does god show up in the comics? Yes. For sure at the end of the run of Lucifer (they have a pretty interesting conversation). It's been a while, but I also think he shows here and there, but it's always ambiguous whether it's him or not. I could also be thinking of a different series for cameo god. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 16:43
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Aleph Null posted:Edit: still hearing "Sinnerman Toast Crunch" jingle in my head for some reason. God drat it.  thanks for that. Now that's all I'm going to hear.
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Dec 8, 2017 13:19
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