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Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.

RBA Starblade posted:

Definitely, the big secret about XCOM 1 and 2 is that the "death spiral" is actually super hard to actually enter; they just do a good job at getting you to think that losing a couple missions is going to gently caress you, outside of losing a few in a row right at the start of the campaign.

Yeah, watching a super best friends LP where they didn't get the engineer in the first mission was rough.

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Boozie
Feb 2, 2013
Just a sanity check that buying things like breaching charges aren't a 1 time only use. Assuming 1 time per mission.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
It drives me mad when people like the Three Moves Ahead podcast crew talk about how they have to savescum because losing a high level soldier is the end of their campaign or something and I'm like noooooo. Like jeez just build some breadth into your roster, bring those squaddies and rookies along, don't do every mission with the same maxed out squad....

Boozie posted:

Just a sanity check that buying things like breaching charges aren't a 1 time only use. Assuming 1 time per mission.

Yup. Nothing is permanently consumed in the firaxis xcoms except bizarrely, overdrive serum in xcom (2?) for some reason.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 28, 2020

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Fangz posted:

Yup. Nothing is permanently consumed in the firaxis xcoms except bizarrely, overdrive serum in xcom (2?) for some reason.

that serum and another item that's made using Spectre corpses iirc. The serums are very potent, but it's bizarre that they're consumable rather than just reduced in power and made per/mission like everything else.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008
I'm just trying to imagine a single problem in xcom 2 that overdrive would be a better solution than just bringing a grenade or a mimic beacon. Worth using once and then losing the invested resources forever. Maybe if they pared down how easy they were to get a hold of but had given soldiers a dedicated overdrive slot so you'd be incentivized to ever actually bring them.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Welp, thanks to the law of Bitching About It Online, I finally got a grapple hook breach pop up and cleared the I'll Let Myself In Achievement. All I have left now is the timeline, scavenger market and melee achievements which should be straightforward enough. I love the game but I'm not sure if I love it enough to do the Impossible Difficulty achievement.

Dr_Gee
Apr 26, 2008

TheParadigm posted:

For me, I think, I can see where they started down this route: Why NOT just 'skip the early game' and jump right into the part where you're past Rookies and like, actually empathizing and bonding with your soldiers - but instead of make your own fun, give people common ground to like and get invested in the franchise with by using a set cast.

I sort of wonder why they didn't make crits just roll max damage.

Ya, this is the crux of it for me when it comes to how much more strongly the fluff resonates and that changes my tactics. My teams are pretty mobile with maybe 1 or 2 characters hanging back (Terminal and Verge, especially). Everyone else moves a LOT for the purpose of arresting enemies rather than killing them because I'm playing it as if the squad are actually cops whose job is (or should be) law enforcement rather than military.

I agree entirely entirely about Anarchy, though. I set a mental rule to really try and keep it down (again, going back to playing it as if the Squad are cops rather than military); there are no "acceptable losses" here. I do wish there were bigger maps every now and then, too, but that's a bit less intense. The things like intense base management and the Rookie/Squaddie phase in XCOM1/2 really didn't do it for me and I don't mind that they're gone.

Also it's 100% an issue of taste, there's no objectively correct set of components to enjoy more/less than others. I see the difference between XCOM 1/2 and Chimera Squad sort of like the switch from Mass Effect 1 to 2. Cutting out a lot of the traditional RPG cruft made the game quite a bit more fun, but they left enough in that it still felt like an RPG. That's how Chimera Squad feels to me.

KNR
May 3, 2009

RBA Starblade posted:

Definitely, the big secret about XCOM 1 and 2 is that the "death spiral" is actually super hard to actually enter; they just do a good job at getting you to think that losing a couple missions is going to gently caress you, outside of losing a few in a row right at the start of the campaign.

It's not really that hard to enter, especially in 1 on impossible, where the insane satellite pressure inevitably puts you behind on tech requiring to rely on a leveled squad. Enough of that squad goes down vs the first mutons you face and you're not killing the next batch.

2 is a lot more generous though, with squad upgrades, reliable replacement soldiers from the black market and no significant additional strategic resource drain on legendary. And WOTC adds basically free fully leveled replacement 'hero' units (which makes them way more disposable than your regular troops).

I wish this wasn't such a big secret in general, the most fun I had in XCOM 2 was coming back from a couple of significant failures mid-summer of a legendary run. That and trying to get as many people out as I could from council missions gone wrong. LW2 gets a lot of flak for its insanely tedious geoscape and haven management, but making the default guerilla ops end with a fighting retreat from endless reinforcements was an amazing change. I'm glad CS took that even if meshes a lot worse with both the setting of CS and the interleaved turns.

Cosa Nostra Aetate
Jan 1, 2019

Jerusalem posted:

Welp, thanks to the law of Bitching About It Online, I finally got a grapple hook breach pop up and cleared the I'll Let Myself In Achievement. All I have left now is the timeline, scavenger market and melee achievements which should be straightforward enough. I love the game but I'm not sure if I love it enough to do the Impossible Difficulty achievement.

Impossible was not a huge step up in difficulty in CS. You lose 1 round of bleed out timer and enemies become harder to one shot. It wasn't as noticeable as the difficulty increase in the other Firaxicoms, though even in those it's mostly an upfront difficulty increase.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

reignofevil posted:

I'm just trying to imagine a single problem in xcom 2 that overdrive would be a better solution than just bringing a grenade or a mimic beacon.
All these years later and it's still funny to me that the mimic beacons we have now are what's left after they nerfed them.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Arrinien posted:

Now that the game's been out for awhile, have people figured out for sure how to hit 100% completion on the 3 factions? Still wondering if it involves seeing all the Dark Event options or taking all the purple missions when they come up.

No clue. My first run was Coil-Progeny-Phoenix and my second was Progeny-Phoenix-Coil, but I'm showing 75% Coil, 66% Progeny, 66% Phoenix completion.

Guess I'll work on a Phoenix-Coil-Progeny run and see how it goes.

Boozie
Feb 2, 2013
Am I going to regret spamming security field teams everywhere? Was planning 7 / 1 /1 of the types.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Boozie posted:

Am I going to regret spamming security field teams everywhere? Was planning 7 / 1 /1 of the types.

You’re going to find the cost prohibitively expensive if you don’t do it just based on free teams from operations and I’m not sure you would have time to do all the ops you need.

Tom Tucker
Jul 19, 2003

I want to warn you fellers
And tell you one by one
What makes a gallows rope to swing
A woman and a gun

Boozie posted:

Am I going to regret spamming security field teams everywhere? Was planning 7 / 1 /1 of the types.

I went 5-2-2 in one run and I don't think I was able to upgrade all of them, it just scales up too much, even running free field team spec ops. This run I experimented with 3/3/3 and of course I'm fricken drowning in elyrium and fine on money. Scavenger market should have multiple currencies.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008
You shouldn't need all security field teams between the special action to reduce unrest and the special action to reduce anarchy and the field operation to reduce unrest city wide and the field option to reduce city anarchy you really ought to be able to afford a couple financial and research teams. The intel you'll save in the short run means more money for plasma grenades!

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


"Vahlen! Where the hell have you been?"
"Oh, you know, travelling."
"How?!"
"I turned Big Sky into a psychic Skyranger/Avatar hybrid."

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Doctor Reynolds posted:

"Vahlen! Where the hell have you been?"
"Oh, you know, travelling."
"How?!"
"I turned Big Sky into a psychic Skyranger/Avatar hybrid."

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Tom Tucker posted:

I went 5-2-2 in one run and I don't think I was able to upgrade all of them, it just scales up too much, even running free field team spec ops. This run I experimented with 3/3/3 and of course I'm fricken drowning in elyrium and fine on money. Scavenger market should have multiple currencies.
Yeah, it's a real problem that you basically never run low on elyrium (assembly projects just take too dang long is half the problem there I think) and eventually credits become utterly worthless, but you always need more intel.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

CapnAndy posted:

Yeah, it's a real problem that you basically never run low on elyrium (assembly projects just take too dang long is half the problem there I think) and eventually credits become utterly worthless, but you always need more intel.

Time is basically the most precious resource in the game while the other three sorta compete with each other. And while there is a way to convert time into those others, there's not a way to convert those three into the others. Elerium has a hard and finite number in how much you need and has a hard max in however many Assembly projects you end up working on. Cash is a little more variable in how much you need, depending on how you kit out your team and what options you want available for them. You always need a little extra, but not necessarily that much more. Intel is the one that's mostly variable as you're never sure what the Scavengers have on offer and when you get free teams is partially up to the game.

Ironically, it pays to beeline Tech a little just so you can make Assembly Projects go that extra 50% faster before ignoring it again and leaning on Finance and Security.

Olive Branch
May 26, 2010

There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.

I ran a full Intel field team run doing lots of the Legwork special ops for more Intel, and I never had a problem with either getting more Elerium or Credits during my Impossible run. City Anarchy and Unrest was never a problem, and by the end I had a fully kitted-out team with excellent Scavenger Market gear and everything researched. I only bothered going for a Rank 2 Credit and Elerium field team to get the achievement for doing every type of special op.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Megazver posted:

Reflex Grips are also essential on Patchwork and Axiom.

I wish I had one for Godmother, since she can pop a skill that gives her 3 actions, then moves her up in the turn order on top of it.

l33tfuzzbox
Apr 3, 2009
I have a question about the console version (i know i know but i dont have a gaming pc currently).

I have the base xcom 2, and then i later bought the disc collection version bc it was only 12 versus 90 digital. Im giving a buddy the base copy, and my question is can i install the collection, and him access it with the original base disc? The play disc is marked different, and it had me swap between it and the data disc to install, so i assume not. Trying to save him money and heartache.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

Boozie posted:

Am I going to regret spamming security field teams everywhere? Was planning 7 / 1 /1 of the types.

It works on Normal. I am playing Hard right now, and I needed to go 5/2/2 for that.

Truecon420
Jul 11, 2013

I like to tweet and live my life. Thank you.
Was waiting until this was patched to start. I’m really enjoying it so far. I chose Sacred coil as my first investigation (paying on hard) am I hosed? Which Investigation should I do next??is there a recommended order or easier order for investigations your first time through ?

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

Truecon420 posted:

Was waiting until this was patched to start. I’m really enjoying it so far. I chose Sacred coil as my first investigation (paying on hard) am I hosed? Which Investigation should I do next??is there a recommended order or easier order for investigations your first time through ?

Sacred Coil is notorious for being a bit steeper difficulty curve right out the gate, especially their takedown mission (the final mission against them that concludes their portion of the story campaign). From my own personal experience, on my first run through the game, I was playing on Normal and chose Sacred Coil as my third investigation target and didn't have too much trouble with them. For my second, current run, I've bumped the difficulty up to Expert, did Sacred Coil as my first target, and spent a good chunk of the latter half of the investigation constantly rotating my agents through Training to get rid of scars they kept accumulating (which I assume was more on me for not getting upgraded armor sooner), and the takedown mission was a knockdown, drag-out slugfest in the third encounter that ended with me victorious but one of my agents knocked out and having to train off another scar for my efforts.

That being said, if you take them on first and manage to pull off the successful takedown, you're pretty much in the clear for the rest of the campaign.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Truecon420 posted:

Was waiting until this was patched to start. I’m really enjoying it so far. I chose Sacred coil as my first investigation (paying on hard) am I hosed? Which Investigation should I do next??is there a recommended order or easier order for investigations your first time through ?

I did Sacred Coil first. The last mission is hard but doable. I think Sacred Coil is my favorite first because you can get Dragon Rounds, and setting people on fire is always hilarious.

But I've played Sacred Coil - Progeny - Grey Phoenix and Progeny - Grey Phoenix - Sacred Coil, and neither was a notably easier run.

KNR
May 3, 2009
The game still has an inverse difficulty curve despite the much more controlled environment. Maybe the difficulty keeps up if your squad is something like Axiom, Verge, Zephyr, Shelter. But I feel that Sacred Coil is the hardest faction in each slot because they have a really disproportionate amount of the games most dangerous enemies.

They've got ronins, which can output infinite damage if left unchecked (versus sorcerers, who do nothing most of the time, and a single null lance at worst, and praetorians which are just slabs of meat that do nothing). Andromedons, which are both the tankiest unit in the game and have a dangerous aoe attack (vs codices and archons with way less hp and only forced move aoes, though a forced move is costlier in CS than in XCOM 2 since you almost always have other uses for your actions). Add to that purifiers which can throw out 6+ damage unavoidable nades, mecs doing their usual aoe rockets and lids converting civilians into more enemies.

And I think that's pretty much also a list of the games most dangerous enemies, not counting some shrike units.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Speaking of which, Sorcerors are such jokes that I have to laugh every time they use their shield to kill an ally that has more HP than I was doing anyway. Thanks bud, just keep doing everything possible to keep your harmless self alive. You're definitely a top-tier threat for your faction. *wink wink*

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Clarste posted:

Speaking of which, Sorcerors are such jokes that I have to laugh every time they use their shield to kill an ally that has more HP than I was doing anyway. Thanks bud, just keep doing everything possible to keep your harmless self alive. You're definitely a top-tier threat for your faction. *wink wink*

Sorcerers are the CEOs of the Progeny

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


It makes a lot of sense in-fiction, so I enjoy that a great deal. I hate that elevator mission, though. It's cursed with bad rolls, I swear...

Truecon420
Jul 11, 2013

I like to tweet and live my life. Thank you.

ulmont posted:

I did Sacred Coil first. The last mission is hard but doable. I think Sacred Coil is my favorite first because you can get Dragon Rounds, and setting people on fire is always hilarious.

But I've played Sacred Coil - Progeny - Grey Phoenix and Progeny - Grey Phoenix - Sacred Coil, and neither was a notably easier run.

W.T. Fits posted:

Sacred Coil is notorious for being a bit steeper difficulty curve right out the gate, especially their takedown mission (the final mission against them that concludes their portion of the story campaign).
That being said, if you take them on first and manage to pull off the successful takedown, you're pretty much in the clear for the rest of the campaign.

Word, thank you both. Playing on hard might have been a mistake, but I got blueblood and torque so maybe got lucky. I've played the xcom/2/expansions a ton so thought I was ready. Loving this game

KNR
May 3, 2009
Actually, I remembered a single time a sorcerer actually did something. They popped tyranny on an Archon that moved right before them, turns out burnout fires when the archon next has an action. Only hit 2 people for not that much damage, but it's a neat combo that really caught me off guard.

Isometric Bacon
Jul 24, 2004

Let's get naked!
Been playing original UFO X-Com via OpenXCom for the first time in many years, and man does this game hold up. The level of depth and different systems in place for a game from 1994 is just astounding.

This is my first time with open xcom, and the simple ability to have a resolution greater than 320 X 240 or whatever from the original all my claustrophobic issues with the UI.

After entirely too many hours and late nights after work, I'm up to the Martian Solution. I just now have to figure out how to get over there via the UI.

Now I see that xcom 2 was released on switch, and by all accounts is a pretty amazing port for the hardware... Though after the Vita, the iPad and Android ports of EW you'd think I'd have learned by now that portable xcom is bad for my health.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Thanks to the wotc LP I was inspired to do another playthrough and boy, I forgot how much I love poison.

It will never not be funny to end your turn and see like 2-3 dudes immediately ragdoll.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

Truecon420 posted:

Word, thank you both. Playing on hard might have been a mistake, but I got blueblood and torque so maybe got lucky. I've played the xcom/2/expansions a ton so thought I was ready. Loving this game

Blueblood and Torque are both great to have along. Blueblood is pretty much the king of damage dealers once you get him promoted and trained up. And Torque is great for both utility and damage, making her extremely... flexible. :rimshot:

What's the rest of your squad?

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)
Coil's definitely the hardest first because Robutt units, Guardians, and final room is a bitch if not fully prepared. Also makes some units kind of harder to use(Torque gets a bit kneecapped due to poison not working on robutts, Zephyr takes damage if killing a primed android, and Verge straight up sucks in it).

Patchwork kind of annihilates the whole org though. It's hilarious how much easier it is when you use her in it.

Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.

Shoenin posted:

Coil's definitely the hardest first because Robutt units, Guardians, and final room is a bitch if not fully prepared. Also makes some units kind of harder to use(Torque gets a bit kneecapped due to poison not working on robutts, Zephyr takes damage if killing a primed android, and Verge straight up sucks in it).

Patchwork kind of annihilates the whole org though. It's hilarious how much easier it is when you use her in it.

Fully upgraded Patchwork is god drat ridiculous.

Truecon420
Jul 11, 2013

I like to tweet and live my life. Thank you.

W.T. Fits posted:

Blueblood and Torque are both great to have along. Blueblood is pretty much the king of damage dealers once you get him promoted and trained up. And Torque is great for both utility and damage, making her extremely... flexible. :rimshot:

What's the rest of your squad?

Verge and terminal! Sad to leave out Godmother, she seemed like fun

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Shoenin posted:

Coil's definitely the hardest first
...
Patchwork kind of annihilates the whole org though. It's hilarious how much easier it is when you use her in it.

Yeah pick Patchwork and the Coil difficulty drops tremendously.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Prepping for an Impossible Run just to see if I give up the moment I hit a wall, what would be considered the best starting team? I figured Patchwork, Blueblood, Verge and Godmother for a mix of damage, range and crowd-control but as a team they seem like they'd be pretty fragile, would it make more sense to go with something like Godmother, Axiom, Claymore and Cherub?

I also figure I'll go with Sacred Coil first since they're the toughest and if I can get through them it should be smooth sailing from there, but am I setting myself up for instant failure?

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