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dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Burrowed chryssalids also don't give a poo poo about stealth mechanics, fyi.

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RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

dyzzy posted:

Burrowed chryssalids also don't give a poo poo about stealth mechanics, fyi.

That's good to know for later! My Templar got face off again, hopefully I luck out and get bladestorm as well to solve that problem.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
I love the way the LW2 Ranger class is set up. I think I actually like all the classes better than vanilla. I like the rifle specialty, and in the base game you only really get to play with them as a Specialist and they aren't super great at them.

WOTC needs that second wave option that makes rookies unique so bad. All rooks having the same stats is terrible.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

[quote="Firstborn" post="477437632"
WOTC needs that second wave option that makes rookies unique so bad. All rooks having the same stats is terrible.
[/quote]

That and a second wave option to have every perk randomized as much as possible like in EU, even more than the training center gives.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
It feels great when one of your Imported soldiers you are playing in a new game ends up with good stats / the class you wanted / both in LW2.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

RBA Starblade posted:

That and a second wave option to have every perk randomized as much as possible like in EU, even more than the training center gives.

The issue is way more perks are dependent on class-specific gear than there were in EU/EW. Specialist is about 70% perks that rely on the Gremlin, Sharpshooter is 50% perks that rely on the pistol, Ranger has a ton that rely on the sword etc.

You'd barely randomize anything except for Grenadiers who could randomize I think every perk except for one. Which is a hilarious reversal from EU/EW where Heavies had the most locked perks.

Zore fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 16, 2017

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Zore posted:

The issue is way more perks are dependent on class-specific gear than there were in EU/EW. Specialist is about 70% perks that rely on the Gremlin, Sharpshooter is 50% perks that rely on the pistol, Ranger has a ton that rely on the sword etc.

You'd barely randomize anything except for Grenadiers who could randomize I think every perk except for one. Which is a hilarious reversal from EU/EW where Heavies had the most locked perks.

Let them use anything too then. :v: You can already select the claymore as a item that you can't unequip anyway, just make everything like that toggleable and if you can use a skill using claymores, you can equip it, gremlins the same way, weapons, etc.

I'm sure it'd be hilariously broken but it'd also be really fun.

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it known how the additional damage works in critical hits and/or Chosen weaknesses? (e.g. a crit with mag weapons gets you +1-3 damage; hitting a weakness gives you +3-5)

2. Let's say you level up your soldier to Captain. Is it mandatory to get a Captain perk in order to keep getting promotions or can you just not select anything and save your AP? Because there's some tiers where I'd rather not take anything, while there's others with two good skills.

Mystic Stylez fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 16, 2017

Tom Tucker
Jul 19, 2003

I want to warn you fellers
And tell you one by one
What makes a gallows rope to swing
A woman and a gun

Regarding sharpshooters, I really don't know where people are coming from not enjoying them on Commander difficulty, maybe it's a Legendary thing? Even with a squad size of 4 I will generally bring one on a mission if I think I need it. For a non-timed mission getting them somewhere central where they can pistol / snipe care free is easy, and for any mission with a timer you're generally concealed so as you move your squad up identify high ground with a good vantage and sprint your sniper there. Cover generally doesn't matter as you'll be shooting through squadsight.

Then during your initial alpha strike use a grenade to hit someone's cover and the sniper shot gets really high percentage, then you get relatively high percentage shots through the mission. Occasionally you'll find a map with some bad layouts or no good high ground, but those are pretty rare, and in those cases you just have to move them up close for the first hit.

Then end game they become gods with the Hunter weapon. For those who haven't tried it with death from above, death from above means your shots from above that kill don't end your turn, which usually is not super useful with a conventional sniper rifle because you can't fire again, so it's limited to a move, reload, etc. The hunter rifle only takes one action to fire, and "doesn't end your turn" means "you get another action" if it's your second action and you kill an enemy with the rifle. With free reloads as long as you have those reloads handy and can guarantee kill shots your Sniper can keep firing. They kill everything. Give them a grapple to get in range for lightning hands (armor piercing with the Hunter pistol) to soften up your first target to set up the death from above and they will take out multiple squads with just a grenade or two to soften the enemy up.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Mystic Stylez posted:

I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it known how the additional damage works in critical hits and/or Chosen weaknesses? (e.g. a crit with mag weapons gets you +1-3 damage; hitting a weakness gives you +3-5)

2. Let's say you level up your soldier to Captain. Is it mandatory to get a Captain perk in order to keep getting promotions or can you just not select anything and save your AP? Because there's some tiers where I'd rather not take anything, while there's others with two good skills.

2) only faction soldiers work that way. Regular soldiers don't spend AP for their normal levels so forgoing a perk would save you nothing.

Taffer
Oct 15, 2010


Mystic Stylez posted:

2. Let's say you level up your soldier to Captain. Is it mandatory to get a Captain perk in order to keep getting promotions or can you just not select anything and save your AP? Because there's some tiers where I'd rather not take anything, while there's others with two good skills.

Unless they're a faction soldier, one perk per rank costs 0 AP. For faction soldiers (and anyone else) you can just click on the promote button to confirm their new rank, but you are not required to select a perk.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

RBA Starblade posted:

Let them use anything too then. :v: You can already select the claymore as a item that you can't unequip anyway, just make everything like that toggleable and if you can use a skill using claymores, you can equip it, gremlins the same way, weapons, etc.

I'm sure it'd be hilariously broken but it'd also be really fun.

This mod may interest you FYI

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1156798529&searchtext=

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

Thanks for the answers, guys. Re: my above question about criticals, I found this, which seems reasonable: https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/45279h/heres_how_weapon_accuracy_and_damage_works/

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester


Sweet, I'm going to have to play around with that later.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Anybody know whether the "Delay dark events by 2 weeks" hack reward affects a dark event that a Chosen is preparing?

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Aren't the Chosen's abilitie supposed to have cooldowns? The Warlock is doing MC/teleport/mind scorch every single turn.

e: BTW you can flashbang your own MC'd units and the game says it will work, but the game is lying; they can do everything anyway. My skirmisher just Justice'd my spark and shut it down with the Ionic Ripjack.

Lagomorphic
Apr 21, 2008

AKA: Orthonormal
You can freeze bomb MC'd soldiers to buy yourself a turn so maybe pack that instead of a flashbang if you're likely to run into the warlock and don't have a psi ops trained yet.

temple
Jul 29, 2006

I have actual skeletons in my closet

RBA Starblade posted:

Aren't the Chosen's abilitie supposed to have cooldowns? The Warlock is doing MC/teleport/mind scorch every single turn.

e: BTW you can flashbang your own MC'd units and the game says it will work, but the game is lying; they can do everything anyway. My skirmisher just Justice'd my spark and shut it down with the Ionic Ripjack.
Yeah flashbang works on the controlling unit, not the controlled.

The warlock is nasty in an indirect way. I don't think active chosen have cool downs.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I guess it just sort of worked out that way in my last campaign then, ugh. Luckily no one's dead but I don't have a spark for a month and a half, the doom timer's begun, every facility but one is four regions away, and poo poo's sort of hosed! My reaper's about to come back so I think the facility's fine, and some squaddies are about to get owned on this avatar-reducing op.

e: yeah they got owned lol, reinforcements showed up in front so they couldn't not get flanked. One survived though! Also why would you have me choose between "more chosen attacks" and "more captures on ops" that's so mean

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Oct 17, 2017

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004

I think chosen do have cooldowns because I've never seen them use the same ability more than every other turn. I had the warlock actually just take a shot with his rifle once.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe
It’s time the thread title becomes sequel when

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
I hate seeing the Warlock first. Mind Control is deadly. I'd much rather fight the Assassin or Hunter on a new game. Warlock makes me run away from the mission

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004
BITCH ASS NARC

Firstborn posted:

I hate seeing the Warlock first. Mind Control is deadly. I'd much rather fight the Assassin or Hunter on a new game. Warlock makes me run away from the mission

Didn't play legendary but did complete commander ironman.

Imo, Hunter was easy mode. Warlock was not brutally difficult, you just need to really nuke him hard before MC got out of control. Assassin was very hard for me given how she always has her extra move to disengage.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Bakalakadaka posted:

I think chosen do have cooldowns because I've never seen them use the same ability more than every other turn. I had the warlock actually just take a shot with his rifle once.

It was cheekclenching when the Warlock took a potshot at my then-disabled-by-Wrath-SPARK. It crawled out of the mission with 1 hp. If I hadn't taken Bulwark I'd be screwed. I'm always taking Bulwark now. :stonk:

The Warlock went from hilarious joke to nightmare really fast this campaign. On more positive notes though I've got a second SPARK, a flamethrower (lol it's always the first one gently caress you XCOM), and I can knock seven pips off the doom timer if I don't screw myself. On the downside I'm probably losing two more squaddies to do that. I hope I see the "recruit skirmisher" op pop back up though, I've only seen it in the first month when it was impossible to get a second due to promotions.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Bakalakadaka posted:

I think chosen do have cooldowns because I've never seen them use the same ability more than every other turn. I had the warlock actually just take a shot with his rifle once.

On Commander difficulty the Warlock will happily MC two soldiers on back-to-back turns.

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

All the times I fought the Warlock so far had him just spawning some lovely zombies from way back. One time he used Spectral Army, but that's all. Never seen any other abilities.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Spectral zombies is his "come find me" move, he does it like every other turn until you engage. Easily the most annoying since the assassin just comes to you and the hunter is a joke

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Narsham posted:

On Commander difficulty the Warlock will happily MC two soldiers on back-to-back turns.

He'll occasionally double up on mind scorch too, which is when things usually go south since it almost always disorients.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!
Buglord
I feel like I only want to play this game with the grimley loot mod but then it makes the game infinity easy. I wish this game had diablo loot as a real thing. It fits the logic of the game so well but the game feels like it needs to be designed around it more for it to really work.

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

I was trying to solo a rescue the prisoner mission with a single Reaper but it seems way too unreliable to do on a ironman. Enemy placement/map can really gently caress you, unless there's something I'm missing. This time there was a Heavy MEC right outside the VIP cell so even though I ran to the roof, he was able to easily jump there and shoot me.

Mystic Stylez fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 17, 2017

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
I don't regret going heavy on Mind Shields for Warlock-territory missions, but it takes a while to get there.

(I kinda wish they ONLY blocked actual Psi powers rather than making the soldier completely immune to panic even if they're low on will, but I'm probably a masochist.)

TacMan
Aug 8, 2002

Vert used Hyperbeam,
It's super effective!


:steam: El Mole :steam:

Mystic Stylez posted:

I was trying to solo a rescue the prisoner mission with a single Reaper but it seems way too unreliable to do on a ironman. Enemy placement/map can really gently caress you, unless there's something I'm missing. This time there was a Heavy MEC right outside the VIP cell so even though I ran to the roof, he was able to easily jump there and shoot me.

Just walk around the exterior edge of the map to the backside of the prison cell. Make sure you're blue-moving so you get new LOS and don't walk into anything.
Claymore the wall away on a turn.
Pick up the guy and evac on a turn.

I've done this like 4 times now without any issues.

Mystic Stylez
Dec 19, 2009

TacMan posted:

Just walk around the exterior edge of the map to the backside of the prison cell. Make sure you're blue-moving so you get new LOS and don't walk into anything.
Claymore the wall away on a turn.
Pick up the guy and evac on a turn.

I've done this like 4 times now without any issues.

There's no way I can make it to the evac zone in less than one turn without getting killed, though? Or it's possible I'm very bad at the game™.

navier-stoked
Aug 30, 2004

ditty bout my clitty posted:

It’s time the thread title becomes sequel when

More like "LW2.5 WHEN"

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
Have they announced any plans to move to wotc?

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

dyzzy posted:

Have they announced any plans to move to wotc?

Not sure about LW itself, but there was a post on the Pavonis Interactive forums indicating that they were planning to at least update the standalone mods for WOTC (like the SMG mod and Leader Pack)...but they seem to be moving very slowly on that if that's the case.

Gyshall
Feb 24, 2009

Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.
I love WOTC, but I'd love the additional depth/refinement of LW2/Perk Pack

temple
Jul 29, 2006

I have actual skeletons in my closet
I just cleared 3 pods with 3 attacks. Reapers are god drat insane.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest

Gyshall posted:

I love WOTC, but I'd love the additional depth/refinement of LW2/Perk Pack

This is where I'm at. Man the LW2 classes and officers are cool as heck, and in WOTC only my Rangers feel very killy

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RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Stop grappling every turn you stupid rear end in a top hat and start shooting the guy in the open with a shield. :argh:

e: I just missed a 100% chance to hit melee attack on an advent officer then the same ranger failed to proc bladestorm against a faceless. Shes fired

I really do love how much Legendary doesn't gently caress around though. I have psi zombies and faceless every mission now since I elected to not have everyone get captured on covert ops. My new round of things to choose between are "Chosen capture more", "Chosen show up more", and "+2 to the doom timer". I can ignore the last one because of the blacksite and skulljack, but not really because I'm running out of options. Also the Chosen Defense is at like 3.5 bars and I'm 6 to 12 days from the defense matrix. I just got a second spark just for that as well and I'm keeping my reaper on the sidelines so she can sneak her way to the vans on it.

The planning's just so much more in depth than Commander, it's great. I have to actually think about who to send!

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 18, 2017

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