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sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

I'd love for them to form a unit around the concept of the name Speed Muscle where everyone has to be either super buff or super fast.

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sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010


What were the best Dragon Gate matches of 2016?

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

2/4 Monster Express vs VerserK vs Dia.Hearts
5/5 Cage Match
6/2 Eita vs Susumu
7/24 Shingo vs YAMATO
10/2 VerserK vs MX
11/3 Takagi/YAMATO/Hulk vs Tozawa/Yoshino/Doi
12/1 Vets vs Rookies
12/20 Doi Darts 12-man

are ones I'd consider in the matches of the year tier. about 20 more that I'd consider a rung below that. It's been a very very solid year, both storyline and ringwork wise.

also i expect there to be a biggish shake-up in 2017. TV needs some major support, VerserK needs a solid number 3, OG has no purpose since: Eita's been doing his own thing, Punch is garbage and Kaito/Hiro have more of a competition with the '16ers than anything within the unit, and you have Yoshino-gun/Doi with the Towel Jumpsuits.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Starting an online petition to DG to name the new unit Towel Jumpsuits.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

Here's another list from my friend/co-host. They liked the Dream Gate match at Final Gate a whole lot more.

https://twitter.com/toshanshuinLA/s...211742079746048

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


NotQuiteQuentin posted:

VerserK needs a solid number 3

just get YASSHI in there full time

not really MOTYC level but CIMA has had a year of low key excellence. CIMA/Tozawa from somewhere in May/June and CK-1/Jimmyz 11/3 come to mind.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

Tonfa posted:

just get YASSHI in there full time

not really MOTYC level but CIMA has had a year of low key excellence. CIMA/Tozawa from somewhere in May/June and CK-1/Jimmyz 11/3 come to mind.

yeah that's my big problem with YASSHI/Taniyan. They'd both really add a bunch of seriousness to VerserK if they weren't freelance. Like I would have taken that Triangle Gate team seriously if it was either of them rather than Monchan.

Here is the insane thing about CIMA: Out of his nearly 20 year career, each year has been incredibly consistent with the exception of when he nearly broke his neck in 08/09. I've been working on a real comprehensive retrospective project with him/WON HOF and the more I watch, the more I'm convinced he might be the best wrestler of this generation that no one talks about.

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


NotQuiteQuentin posted:

I've been working on a real comprehensive retrospective project with him/WON HOF and the more I watch, the more I'm convinced he might be the best wrestler of this generation that no one talks about.

I'd be very interested in this or a Mocchy "retrospective" in air quotes as both seem to still have a few solid years in the tank. Knowing CIMA he might be here in 2025 putting on a four star match.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



NotQuiteQuentin posted:

yeah that's my big problem with YASSHI/Taniyan. They'd both really add a bunch of seriousness to VerserK if they weren't freelance. Like I would have taken that Triangle Gate team seriously if it was either of them rather than Monchan.

Here is the insane thing about CIMA: Out of his nearly 20 year career, each year has been incredibly consistent with the exception of when he nearly broke his neck in 08/09. I've been working on a real comprehensive retrospective project with him/WON HOF and the more I watch, the more I'm convinced he might be the best wrestler of this generation that no one talks about.

what's the story with tanizaki anyway? I didn't even know he was freelance until recently but he seemed to be booked on every single show when he was with the jimmyz. Is it just a case of making room for all the young kids or is there some kinda drama?

Thauros fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2016 around 22:17

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

Tonfa posted:

I'd be very interested in this or a Mocchy "retrospective" in air quotes as both seem to still have a few solid years in the tank. Knowing CIMA he might be here in 2025 putting on a four star match.

It's gonna be done in 2017 and probably will be on VOW. I might do some audio accompaniments with it. A Mocchy one would be a whole lot of fun, but I'd need to hunt down his WAR stuff which is way low down on my list of priorities. This project has been years in the making, so I don't know when I will want to do such a deep dive into someone else any time soon.

Thauros posted:

what's the story with tanizaki anyway? I didn't even know he was freelance until recently but he seemed to be booked on every single show when he was with the jimmyz. Is it just a case of makingroomforall the young kids or is there some kinda drama?

No drama. This didn't make air on the awesome open the voice gate history episode we did with Jae of iheartdg (link here http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/20...e-unit-history/), but Tanizaki does this a lot. He left DG for a couple of years to do indies/El Dorado, but came back. It's expected to be kind of the same. He has been under a freelance deal since he returned in 08 (so does KAGETORA for that matter), so it's not like he's tied down like how full-timers are. He also has a family/teenage daughter so he might want to be around Osaka a lot more.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


that episode with jae was good listening

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Last year I called 2016 being Eita's breakout year and hoo boy was I ever right on that.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

sticklefifer posted:

Last year I called 2016 being Eita's breakout year and hoo boy was I ever right on that.

Oh totally. He got his head out of his rear end after 2015 and made a much better claim to be Tozawa's replacement in the Big Six than T-Hawk. If more people watched Dragon Gate, he'd be the runaway for Most Improved Wrestler in the WON (obvious statement of the year).

super macho dude
Aug 9, 2014



just watched Final Gate last night, and that Twin Gate match was absolutely filthy. Evil T Hawk is really great to watch and pairing him with Shingo seems perfect.

I hadn't kept up with DG in 2016, so i missed most of the faction angles and breakups. Is there a quick yearly breakdown of what happened in 2016?

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

super macho dude posted:

just watched Final Gate last night, and that Twin Gate match was absolutely filthy. Evil T Hawk is really great to watch and pairing him with Shingo seems perfect.

I hadn't kept up with DG in 2016, so i missed most of the faction angles and breakups. Is there a quick yearly breakdown of what happened in 2016?

I'm deep in the work for an pay-what-you-want eBook about DG in 2016 for VOW, but let's see if I can get 2016 down to a couple of paragraphs.

2016 started with VerseK on top, holding all the titles but the Triangle Gate. Their biggest goal was the elimination of Monster Express and managed to trick MX to go into a loser must disband match with Dia.Hearts (Shimizu is kind of a dumbshit and talked their way into this match). The night of the match, the two other stables called bullshit and got VerserK added to make it a 3-way loser must disband. It'd be Dia.Hearts who fell that night (2/4, my DG MOTY). This would be the peak of VerserK's year as by the end of March, they lost all their titles to Jimmy Susumu (Dream), Yosuke Santa Maria (Brave) and Shimizu/T-Hawk (Twin, Shimizu joined MX quickly after the DH disbandment). Only Shingo was able to reclaim his title. Shimizu and T-Hawk wouldn't hold their title for long as the original Jimmyz team of Susumu/Kagetora won the Twin soon after Kagetora's return after a year with injury. This would be one of the last successes for VerserK in 2016, as the unit practically tore in half with Takagi/Kong/Kotoka on one side and YAMATO/Doi/Tanizaki on another. Ryu and "brother" YASSHI would be stuck in the middle. (Yes "brother" YASSHI made his return a decade after Aagan Issou's firing. Most shocking DG event since Hulk's heel turn in 2011).

This would come to a head at DEAD OR ALIVE where everyone in the cage apuesta match was a VerserK member, Shingo vs Kong vs Kotoka vs Tanizaki vs Doi vs YAMATO (probably my number 2 DG MOTY). Through out the match the two sides would go back and forth, until it was YAMATO and Kotoka left in the cage. Then Naruki Doi turned on his tag team partner and the rest of VerserK ousted YAMATO in favor of Kotoka keeping his hair. However during these shenanigans, Kzy, Maria and a returning Hulk would lend YAMATO aid and they saved his hair/ensured that Kotoka lost the match. The four would form a new unit, Tribe Vanguard. This led into KING OF GATE, which for the first time was a 4 Block 20 Wrestler round robin. The big highlights from the league was Eita's MVP performance putting him on back on track with his Millenial peer T-Hawk, Big R Shimizu's bulldozer run to the finals, and most importantly, the 2016 KING OF GATE would be YAMATO, whom challenged Takagi for the Dream Gate at Kobe World. He would unseat Shingo for his 4th Open the Dream Gate title reign. Also at Kobe World, Eita would win his first singles title, capturing the Brave Gate from Maria.

Summer Adventure Tag League was pretty much a slog. Big things that came from it were: T-Hawk being frustrated with Monster Express and turning on them to join VerserK,Maria and Lindaman's illfated love affair tag team which came up with 0 wins, Lindaman being rejected from TV and joining VerserK in a furious rage (and a really loving big rope), Doi & YASSHI's upset over the Twin Gate champions, rookie supernova Futa Nakamura teaming with Masaaki Mochizuki, and the 2016 SATL winners Dragon Kid and Eita. The Jimmyz would quickly put down both Doi/YASSHI and DK/Eita and YAMATO made his first defense of the Dream Gate against Akira Tozawa, whom announced he'd be graduating Dragon Gate in November to join WWE. Before this, MX dropped the Triangle Gate to a Jimmyz team of Horiguchi/Saito/Kanda. After this announcement, VerserK started again to call for MX to disband and they would finally defeat Tozawa's stable in November, shortly before Tozawa's graduation match alongside the remainder of the Big Six. After Monster Express' disbandment, VerserK would turn on Doi, citing his failures in recent Twin Gate matches. The two teams for the Team Tozawa Akira Farewell at Gate of Destiny were YAMATO/Takagi/Hulk vs Tozawa/Doi/Yoshino. Also at Gate of Destiny, CIMA and Dragon Kid would unseat Susumu/Kagetora for the Twin Gate.

The remainder of the year was a bunch of intrigue about what new units will come out of the fall of Monster Express. This is also a good point to talk about the debutees of 2016. Dragon Gate perhaps has put out their strongest group of rookies since the T2P debut. I mentioned Futa Nakamura earlier and he's clearly the ace of the group and is positioned for a rapid ascent. He renamed himself Ben-K and is a power fighter with gear that's really reminiscent of Hirooki Goto. Hyou Watanabe is a smaller wrestler who aspires to be the best Brave Gate Champion of all time, and has a prickish attitude that's a lot like CIMA was after his debut. Shun Watanabe wants to be DG's next great high flyer and renamed himself Shun Skywalker, and has perhaps the shittiest gear out of anyone in DG history. Katsumi Takeshima and Yuki Yushioka debuted much later and are still in the black shorts phase of their career. The 5 '16ers would quickly stare down CIMA and force a revival of Team Veteran as CIMA/Mochizuki/Dragon Kid/Fujii/Gamma would face Ben-K/Watanabe/Skywalker/Takeshima (IN HIS DEBUT MATCH)/Yoshioka at the 12/1 Korakuen in my third place DG MOTY. The two big things about Final Gate were the unaffiliated team of Yoshino/Ben-K (see I wasn't kidding about his ascent)/Kotoka (who was injured most of the fall and returned to turn on VerserK) taking on Lindaman/Kong/Ryu and Susumu/Kanda/Saito for the vacated Triangle Gate (Horiguchi got injured by a crushing bearhug from Ben-K), where the Jimmyz would keep the title in the stable. The other big thing was Naruki Doi challenging his former tag team partner YAMATO for the Dream Gate. He would fail, but would mysteriously be helped to the back by two men shrouded in Dragon Gate jumpsuits and towels over their heads (so I started calling them the Towel Jumpsuits).

So that leaves us with this:
Dream: YAMATO
Brave: Eita
Twin: CIMA/DK
Triangle: Susumu/Kanda/Saito

VerserK: Takagi/T-Hawk/Lindaman/YASSHI (when he's around)/Tanizaki (who's not around anymore)/Kong/Ryu
Tribe Vanguard: YAMATO/Hulk/Kzy/Maria/Flamita (when he's around)
Jimmyz: Susumu/Saito/Kanda/Kagetora/Horiguchi/Kness
Over Generation: CIMA/Gamma/DK/Eita/Ishida/Yamamura/Punch
Unaffiliated: Yoshino/Doi/Mochizuki/Fujii/Shimizu/Kotoka/Peter Kaasa (new transphobic flippy muscle gaijin who's really botchy and not very good)/Ben-K/Shachi/Watanabe/Skywalker/Takeshima/Yoshioka/Stalker
Towel Jumpsuits: ???/???

super macho dude
Aug 9, 2014



you the best, NQQ

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Great writeup.

The one detail missing was the biggest tragedy of the year next to the MX breakup: Kotoka's injury was his jaw being broken so he couldn't say BEEEEEHHHHHHHHH for several months.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





The biggest issue with Dragon Gate honestly is the tag league taking up like a month and a half of time, and that it usually comes right after Kobe World. So YAMATO ends Shingo's reign of terror but because of the tag league his momentum peters out because there's no decent follow-up on that. And it wasn't helped this year by Gate of Destiny being all about Tozawa.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



NotQuiteQuentin posted:

I'm deep in the work for an pay-what-you-want eBook about DG in 2016 for VOW, but let's see if I can get 2016 down to a couple of paragraphs.


super macho dude posted:

you the best, NQQ

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

sticklefifer posted:

The one detail missing was the biggest tragedy of the year next to the MX breakup: Kotoka's injury was his jaw being broken so he couldn't say BEEEEEHHHHHHHHH for several months.

yeah peter kaasa done hosed him up. kotoka was kind of treading water after he lost his hair, so at least he came back and is causing an impact. i'm really not looking forward to the next time that dude shows up.

Dimebags Brain posted:

The biggest issue with Dragon Gate honestly is the tag league taking up like a month and a half of time, and that it usually comes right after Kobe World. So YAMATO ends Shingo's reign of terror but because of the tag league his momentum peters out because there's no decent follow-up on that. And it wasn't helped this year by Gate of Destiny being all about Tozawa.

ah-loving-greed.

i've kind of made that a hammering point since i joined open the voice gate (and i'm writing the yamato bio in the ebook so watch me write a thousand words about it in detail), yamato was completely cut off by the knees in this reign to an extent not seen before in dragon gate. going kobe world - satl - dangerous gate - gate of destiny with only one defense and all the attention being towards tozawa killed all his momentum. this is the weakest major dream gate run since before cima's epic reign, in my opinion, and tribe vanguard is the worst unit since deep drunkers (which is considered the worst heel unit in dragon system history). i really like the round robin style of king of gate and how that flows into kobe world (i'd love to have all of it taped, but what can you do), but if you are going to do that, please god make satl single elimination so it doesn't take up two months. hell, i got bored and made a bracket that would have simulated the tournament with the block winners/runner-ups getting first round byes:

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

For a while now I've personally considered Final Gate their big show, even though Kobe World is promoted as such. FG is usually the payoff of the biggest title feuds and often has the year's best matches. KW is more the culmination of King of Gate and fallout from Dead or Alive. Also the positioning at the end of the year just makes it feel appropriately, well, final.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





sticklefifer posted:

For a while now I've personally considered Final Gate their big show, even though Kobe World is promoted as such. FG is usually the payoff of the biggest title feuds and often has the year's best matches. KW is more the culmination of King of Gate and fallout from Dead or Alive. Also the positioning at the end of the year just makes it feel appropriately, well, final.

Final Gate's presented as about equivalent of Kobe World in storyline importance, but is undercut by being the worst Dragon Gate crowd of the year every year.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



Fukuoka's a tough crowd, quiet atmosphere has hurt a lot of NJPW's Dontaku shows fromt he same arena. Last year's wasn't too bad tho.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

sticklefifer posted:

For a while now I've personally considered Final Gate their big show, even though Kobe World is promoted as such. FG is usually the payoff of the biggest title feuds and often has the year's best matches. KW is more the culmination of King of Gate and fallout from Dead or Alive. Also the positioning at the end of the year just makes it feel appropriately, well, final.

Final Gate has the big year-end happy moment most years (cept for the year when Deep Drunkers drank on top of the cage), but it's the clear #2 to Kobe World. Kobe World has its history dating back to the Anniversario shows (and was billed as the 17th annual Kobe Pro Wrestling Festival in 2016, so it is one of the few things that continue Toryumon heritage). It's in the company's home prefecture, and in every sense of the word is THE show.

If there was a bigger early year show, Final Gate wouldn't be such an end point. Compilation Gate in 09-10 at Sumo Hall was supposed to be the sixth big show each year, but DG hasn't run there since and has made March about the doubleheader Champion Gate shows in Osaka and Memorial Gate in Wakayama. This is purely conjecture, but 2011 they were just about to run it again, and then the Tsunami/Earthquake hit. They weren't able to run the event and I think they basically said "to hell with it" and decided to focus on Kansai for March.

If I were to rank the "big events" it'd go as follows

Kobe World - Clear-cut number one for obvious reasons.
Final Gate
Dead or Alive - Seen as the kickoff of Kobe World season
Kansai March
Gate of Destiny
Dangerous Gate

Some Korakuens have more relevance, such as the year kickoff, the fan appreciation second Korakuen in December, and the ones that fall into tournaments. I'll be real interested in seeing how this November Sendai show is slotted in. I felt like it made much more sense as a September show to begin their second half of the year post SATL, but I guess it'll be the build up to Final Gate.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.




1 night, single elimination, 6-man tag team tournament, with the first round contested under 2-count rules. Teams:

Jimmyz: Jimmy Susumu, Ryo “Jimmy” Saito, Jimmy Kanda
Tribe Vanguard: YAMATO, BxB Hulk, Kzy
Over Generation: Eita, Takehiro Yamamura, Kaito Ishida
Verserk A: Shingo Takagi, T-Hawk, El Lindaman
Verserk B: “brother” YASSHI, Cyber Kong, Mondai Ryu
Unaffiliated A: Masato Yoshino, Ben-K, Kotoka
Unaffiliated B: Naruki Doi, Masaaki Mochizuki, Big R Shimizu
Unaffiliated C: Don Fujii, Hyou Watanabe, Yuki Yoshioka

This gonna be good

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

I've only been watching sporadically lately since the holidays put me way behind, but why does Lindaman have a huge rope now?

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



Why is there no more Dragon Gate synctube nights anymore?

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


good query

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





sticklefifer posted:

I've only been watching sporadically lately since the holidays put me way behind, but why does Lindaman have a huge rope now?

El Lindaman wanted a big fuckin' rope to hit people with. So he went down to the big fuckin' rope factory and got himself a big fuckin' rope.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



Suplex Liberace posted:

Why is there no more Dragon Gate synctube nights anymore?



mort told me it's fine to run stuff from the drive in sync so I'd be happy to do it on a Monday, Tuesday, or Sunday night after this month's Korakuen hits the drive if NQQ doesn't.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

kyoto had the first show of the year. for those that don't know, kyoto's their biggest venue that doesn't get fully taped (gaora often will use footage from kbs hall for their bumpers/promo segments) so stuff often goes down there, and kzy scored a huge not-fluke 3 minute upset of cima and it sounds like north tribe are the next twin gate contenders.

also everyone poo poo on yamamura/ishida because everyone should poo poo on yamamura/ishida.

Dimebags Brain posted:

El Lindaman wanted a big fuckin' rope to hit people with. So he went down to the big fuckin' rope factory and got himself a big fuckin' rope.

i'm all in on dirtbag lindaman.

Thauros posted:

mort told me it's fine to run stuff from the drive in sync so I'd be happy to do it on a Monday, Tuesday, or Sunday night after this month's Korakuen hits the drive if NQQ doesn't.

it's all you bud. i just don't have the time to grab stuff anymore.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



Thauros posted:

mort told me it's fine to run stuff from the drive in sync so I'd be happy to do it on a Monday, Tuesday, or Sunday night after this month's Korakuen hits the drive if NQQ doesn't.

Those are all good dates. I wish there was a general puro night on synctube (in addition to when Daryl has puro stuff) for some of the less talked about promotions.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





Hulk is challenging YAMATO for the Dream Gate at the February 2nd Korakuen. Personally I'm real happy to see the Champion of my Heart back in the title picture and hopefully he'll win and achieve his dream of making pants entirely out of challenger keys.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

yoshino suffered an injury in kobe: herniated disc and injured spinal cord. serious stuff so all the doiyoshi-gun stuff might be out of the window. kotoka and gamma picked up injuries as well.

looks like they are shuffling the unit shuffle.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

That sucks, I was really curious where that was going.

Flamita's apparently back in Mexico indies again? I can't keep track of that dude. I wonder if LU will get him back when they tape season 4.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

sticklefifer posted:

That sucks, I was really curious where that was going.

Flamita's apparently back in Mexico indies again? I can't keep track of that dude. I wonder if LU will get him back when they tape season 4.

Yeah he's completely indies/Clash based. I expect him back around Champion Gate time. Unless you're living in the dojo like Crews/Neville, you usually just do a set amount of tours each year.

and I wouldn't expect him in LU given he was a Konnan guy.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





The international date line hosed me up and I thought the 2/2 Korakuen show was tonight/this upcoming morning. Luckily haven't had any results spoiled so gonna watch it tonight and maintain my vain hope that BxB Hulk (a true champion) reclaims the Dream Gate from YAMATO.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





The rules for the Dead or Alive 2017 steel cage main event have been announced and are as follows.

-Flags will be placed at the top of the cage at each corner. The Dream Gate title belt will be placed on the center pole.
-Takagi, Kong, Hulk, & Doi must first retrieve a flag. Once they have done so, they will gain Dream Gate challenger status.
-The four challengers can be eliminated via pin or submission at any time during the match. This can occur before they are able to retrieve a challenger flag. An eliminated competitor must leave the cage.
-YAMATO must compete during the entire match, but will not be able to retrieve the title belt until there is only 1 challenger remaining. He can not be eliminated via pin fall or submission at any point during the match.
-The match will progress until YAMATO and 1 challenger remain. The match can then be won by retrieving the Dream Gate title belt to win.
-The final competitor left in the cage will lose their hair or mask.

Surpised Susumu hasn't gotten thrown in to round it out to the traditional six, but the match is weird and convoluted enough as is. No obvious face turns to set up this year, so it should be interesting to see how things go down.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

I love how increasingly complicated DoA is every year.

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NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

hope everyone is ready to see yamato's dumbo ears again.

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