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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Thanks; symbolism-wanking is what Deadpool is all about. (Like, he literally jacks off a unicorn two or three times over the course of the film.) OK. I've learned my lesson. I'm on board with this.
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Jun 2, 2016 00:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Thanks; symbolism-wanking is what Deadpool is all about. (Like, he literally jacks off a unicorn two or three times over the course of the film.) Nah, that's excellent. 
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Jun 2, 2016 02:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Sorry to say, but you got tricked into watching an art film about vaginas. Why would anyone need to be tricked into watching an art film about vaginas?
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Jun 2, 2016 05:20
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Why would anyone need to be tricked into watching an art film about vaginas? A nude Georgia O'Keefe sitting spread eagle in front of a camera for 120 minutes in silent judgement.
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Jun 2, 2016 05:54
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Happy International Women's Day, everyone!
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Jun 2, 2016 07:22
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kiimo posted:SMG breathing life into this thread. He's certainly injecting something.
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Jun 2, 2016 19:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Sorry to say, but you got tricked into watching an art film about vaginas. Well, come on - it's a film about Deadpool, that was always a given.
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Jun 2, 2016 20:03
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Samovar posted:Well, come on - it's a film about Deadpool, that was always a given. Right, so with that out of the way you can get to the second of the two jokes, where Wilson makes sense of the tension between Superhero and Superslave by imagining that he's a fictional character. It's important not to get this backwards: the breaking of the fourth wall is not some clever intrusion of realism into the fantasy but, rather, an escape from the brutal reality of torture into the fantasy that it's 'only a movie'. The end of the film is very explicit about Wilson being his own audience: "and now, for the moment I've all been waiting for...". Ryan Reynolds pretending to be Deadpool isn't funny. Deadpool assembling his own backstory from People Magazine and a half-remembered viewing of Green Lantern is funny. The film establishes right away that Wilson is a cultural magpie who uses his pouches to store the crap he finds in the back of cars - like all the detritus tossed into the air during the fake credits sequence. The film kicks off with his decision to go on a Zombie Segway Tour - get it? With this logic established, the point of (for example) "McAvoy or McKellen?" is that Professor Xavier is an actual person who exists, to Wilson, as a faceless abstraction - inconsistent product of media hype, and probable sellout. Another Super-slave, but with pretensions. Again: pointing out that that Xmen has continuity errors isn't funny. Pointing out that Xmen has continuity errors because Professor X is a charlatan is funny. All the same points were made in Batman V Superman, but that wasn't advertised as a comedy.
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Jun 2, 2016 23:59
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Is it just me or are the opening credits clearly a mockery of Age of Ultron's pretentious end credits?
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Jun 3, 2016 03:11
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What took you so long, SMG?
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Jun 3, 2016 07:23
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It took several attempts to power through 35 pages of fan-casting and box-office wank.
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Jun 3, 2016 08:44
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Jun 3, 2016 11:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right, so with that out of the way you can get to the second of the two jokes, where Wilson makes sense of the tension between Superhero and Superslave by imagining that he's a fictional character. I don't think you understand comedy at all. Him pointing out that Professor Xavier is played by two people is funny because we the audience and Deadpool have an established rapport that we know its a film and he knows its a film , but the other people in the film don't. It's a in joke between the audience and Deadpool. This is the set up for all of the fourth wall breaking it's like he's leaning in at a bar and saying " Get a load of that loving guy over there look how ridiculous". That's the set up. It's even been used in Woody Allen films and is a common comedic/theatrical devise. It's used as a device when the audience and the character could be having the same feelings, to draw the audience into the story, etc.. Every time you write about comedy its loving bizarre. Also, it can be called a aside as well because that's what he does a lot. An aside is sometimes different than "breaking the fourth wall". Hollismason fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 23:33
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Hollismason posted:I don't think you understand comedy at all. Him pointing out that Professor Xavier is played by two people is funny because we the audience and Deadpool have an established rapport that we know its a film and he knows its a film , but the other people in the film don't. It's a in joke between the audience and Deadpool. back to the important issues: Kelsey Grammer Cable. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 23:45
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Hollismason posted:I don't think you understand comedy at all. Him pointing out that Professor Xavier is played by two people is funny because we the audience and Deadpool have an established rapport that we know its a film and he knows its a film , but the other people in the film don't. It's a in joke between the audience and Deadpool. You're mixing up 'comedy' with 'hack comedy'. Using a straightforward example from the film: the bartender says the villains look like Blade 2 cosplay. In your view, the joke is that the people are wearing black and you saw Blade 2. It creates imaginary rapport with the bartender, where you can imagine that both you and the bartender saw Blade 2, and that you both recognized that the characters in Blade 2 dressed in clothes that aren't like normal people clothes. Observational humor combined with referential humor. The actual joke, on the contrary, is some classic Marx Bros.: "they may look pedophile vampires, and talk like pedophile vampires - but don't let that fool you: they really are pedophile vampires!” Because of course they are. The entire point of the film is that they are creepy stalkers who prey on the weak and turn them into undead slaves. Wilson's hatred of stalkers is set up early on, and then he has to overcome his own stalker tendencies to win the day. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 00:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're mixing up 'comedy' with 'hack comedy'. It's not hack if that's the entire schtick of the character is that he does asides and fourth wall breaking. Also calling fourth wall or asides hack comedy is dumb when writers like William Shakespeare used it and it's been a tradition of comedy for literally centuries. Again when you write about comedy it seems that you fundamentally don't understand the premise. That's not even the same joke by the way. That would be if he said something like " I may look like a crazy person and that's because I am" This is a device termed stating the obvious. It was used by Mark Twain and other humor writers. Albert Brook does this a lot in his stand up and comedy as well as Woody Allen. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 01:20
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"No, no, this movie is good because everything is empty and surface and lacking all meaning"
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Jun 4, 2016 03:34
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Hollismason posted:This is a device termed stating the obvious. It was used by Mark Twain and other humor writers. Albert Brook does this a lot in his stand up Hmm.
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Jun 4, 2016 03:35
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Oh SMG, you're the best. 
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Jun 4, 2016 04:04
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Hollismason posted:It's not hack if that's the entire schtick of the character is that he does asides and fourth wall breaking. Also calling fourth wall or asides hack comedy is dumb when writers like William Shakespeare used it and it's been a tradition of comedy for literally centuries. Again when you write about comedy it seems that you fundamentally don't understand the premise. "Hey, remember the Goonies? Hey you guys, truffle shuffle, um, lol." -Bill Shakespeare You're again mixing up two different things. The Deadpool ad campaign utilized the hack comedy you're talking about, and had many people justifiably concerned. But the film, happily, went in the polar opposite direction and ended up being actually good. What I gather from your post is that you consider the ads and the film to be of the same 'schtick', and that is a failing on your part. Again, we can point to concrete examples in the film. When Wilson says "please don't make the super-suit green, or animated!" Green Lantern is a film within the diegesis, and Wilson has actually seen it. However, Wilson also lives in a world where the Xmen go around fighting crimes on a regular basis. So, when he makes a reference to Xmen 5 later on, he's talking about the nature of reality itself. The entire Deadpool movie is already a fractured timeline pieced together from the wreckage at the start of the film. When the character breaks the wall for the first time, chronologically, it's presented as disturbing. Once you get to sixteen walls, things turn real horrorshow.
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Jun 4, 2016 06:51
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Hey SMG, what's your take on Wade owning an action figure of himself from X-men Origins Wolverine?
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Jun 4, 2016 06:58
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Detective No. 27 posted:Hey SMG, what's your take on Wade owning an action figure of himself from X-men Origins Wolverine? I don't think he does. It's worth noting that every single fourth-wall break either comes from Wade himself or during a flashback, which is told by Wade and therefore unreliable. There's no such thing as Wolverine: Origins in Wade's reality, only in his mind, which is conscious of the world beyond his movie. EDIT: Actually, I think it's important to differentiate "Wade" and "Deadpool". Wade was just a regular guy who happened to be a skilled mercenary. Deadpool is the one who can see the fourth wall and beyond. Consequently, the line about the green, animated super suit never actually happened. That's just Deadpool embellishing his origin story. Phylodox fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 07:03
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Detective No. 27 posted:Hey SMG, what's your take on Wade owning an action figure of himself from X-men Origins Wolverine? He doesn't actually own it (the figurine just vanishes offscreen after it's picked up). When Deadpool is talking about the worst possible thing, and Wilson is talking about his most prized possession, the action figure is right in the middle of the screen - but, of course, they're actually talking about the cancer. Wilson is just blatantly using his ironic appreciation of Wham! to distract from the issue, and the cancer is metaphorically pushed offscreen, Now Hollismason will probably tell you the joke is that Wolverine Origins was bad like cancer. (it's an in-joke where we build a rapport because we both saw this same movie...) But that's not actually funny. What's funny is saying cancer is bad like Wolverine Origins. The reversal is crucial because it changes the statement from a loathsome nerd hyperbole to something truthful: Wolverine Origins wasn't that bad, and can actually be redeemed in a way. The match-cut is there to show that this Deadpool and the one in Origins are in fact the same character, as seen from different perspectives (in the metaphor of the film, they exist simultaneously, in different timelines). Literally: when Deadpool is struck hard enough, he turns into this inferior version of himself - immobile, mouth sewn up, fully reduced to a super-slave franchise product. It's letting the despair over his disfigurement overtake him. Since Deadpool is immortal, his greatest fear is 'being unloved'. The beauty of the ending is that his appreciation for Wham! stops being ironic, and he's okay with what happened in Origins.
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Jun 4, 2016 07:55
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Egbert Souse posted:Is it just me or are the opening credits clearly a mockery of Age of Ultron's pretentious end credits? It was in the script from 6 years ago pretty much exactly as you see it. Minus the titles.
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Jun 4, 2016 07:59
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Recontextualizing fourth-wall-breaking comedy as the imaginary ramblings of an insane person is hack criticism
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Jun 4, 2016 18:09
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McSpanky posted:Recontextualizing fourth-wall-breaking comedy as the imaginary ramblings of an insane person is hack criticism The secret is to never engage with SMG
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Jun 4, 2016 18:20
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WarLocke posted:The secret is to never engage with SMG At this point, i'm pretty sure SMG is really a cluster of chatbots on a forgotten basement server somewhere, possibly powered by the tortured souls of missing film students.
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Jun 4, 2016 18:47
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McSpanky posted:Recontextualizing fourth-wall-breaking comedy as the imaginary ramblings of an insane person is hack criticism You've misunderstood. The joke of the film is not that 'superheros' and 'time travel' are fake, but that they are real.
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Jun 4, 2016 19:27
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Guys, maybe Deadpool is actually just a Ryan Reynolds romance film.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:40
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King Vidiot posted:Guys, maybe Deadpool is actually just a Ryan Reynolds romance film. If that were true, you would have nothing to fear. But there is no going back now. Things will never be the same again.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:19
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Deadpool does break the fourth wall, talks to an audience, makes references to cope with his lovely life. So SMG is kinda right. He does imagine himself to be a fictional character to cope. The joke, actually is...he is right.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:23
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CelticPredator posted:Deadpool does break the fourth wall, talks to an audience, makes references to cope with his lovely life. So SMG is kinda right. He does imagine himself to be a fictional character to cope. I've not read too much of the early stuff (I think Circle Chase is the earliest I've read) but it seemed to me like the forth-wall breaking initially was a joke playing off his state of mind, but which necessarily lead to him becoming self-aware in the more relatable sense, of seeing himself as a bit of a screw-up and such.
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Jun 5, 2016 01:04
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Deadpool might set off the way for a slew of all new R rated comic book movies, but it really should have lead to the greenlighting of Grant Morrison's Animal Man.
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Jun 5, 2016 03:39
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Right, so with that out of the way we can get into the rather nuanced relationship between this film and Wolverine Origins - because it's as Wilson says: he had to debase himself for Wolverine before he could get his own movie. But we soon find out is that 'giving Wolverine a handjob' actually refers to his time spent in the torture-experimentation facility. It's exactly the same as the Joker: both incompatible origin stories are equally 'real'. It's easy to picture the character from the end of Origins reattaching his decapitated head and hailing a nearby taxi.... The truth is of course in where events overlap: being made into a slave, the threat of having his mouth sewn shut, being left for dead after the building collapses, etc. And produces some ambiguity, because Ajax overlaps with Striker, but also with... Wolverine? And of course he shares traits with Wilson himself. This all leads to the introduction of Hugh Jackman at the end of the film.
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Jun 5, 2016 03:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Femininity in the film is associated with blood and fire, while the villainous Ajax is named after a laundry detergent and, in one scene, wields a fire extinguisher as a weapon. (Wilson, naturally, wields an explosive oxygen tank).  Deadpool is our lord and saviour feminist Jesus Christ After Deadpool is forcibly impaled by Ajax's steel rod he is doesn't fire his guns until he has confronted him a final time, after which he is able to fire a final money shot to his face.
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Jun 5, 2016 04:26
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Thread owns. I am always for an SMG crazy reading.
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Jun 5, 2016 05:05
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The joke is, I am not and never will be. The joke, is on me. The trick is to die.
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Jun 5, 2016 05:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right, so with that out of the way we can get into the rather nuanced relationship between this film and Wolverine Origins - because it's as Wilson says: he had to debase himself for Wolverine before he could get his own movie. I think you mistake queerness for femininity a lot in your critiques. Deadpool is a decidedly queer film which is kind of cool. Also your entire inability at the concept of humor. It's like you're a alien from Galaxy Quest finding things funny that aren't actually funny or finding them funny because of some irrelevant issues. The man fell down. This is funny because of the current issue with the ACA and as you can see the man won't be able to afford medical bills due to his coverage plan ,which is a critique of Obamacare. It's just loving bizarre. I would honestly like to hear your thoughts on Queer film like Duke of Burgundy or Cloudburst or Tangerine or something like that. Or like a Kenneth Anger film like Fireworks or Scorpio Rising. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 08:12
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How is deadpool a queer film? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't even see it. Like, what makes a queer film, a queer film outside of the obvious?
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Jun 5, 2016 08:15
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CelticPredator posted:How is deadpool a queer film? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't even see it. Like, what makes a queer film, a queer film outside of the obvious? Well first there's the fact that he very strongly eschews masculinity. Like he's a male, but he's not masculine at all. Or at least I wouldn't describe any of his behavior as masculine. Unless you automatically equate violence with masculinity which is a bit odd. He's also comfortable with same sex attraction and makes multiple references to this during the film, but he isn't homosexual or even bisexual it's kind of odd to say that ,but he's queer. There's a bunch of other things in the film as well. All the women in the film show more masculinity than Deadpool, which is kind of interesting. As a character in the comics he's straight up queer and been that way for a long time.Oh and there was the part where he got hosed in the rear end. Basically it has more to do with the way the gender roles in the film are depicted or not depicted. A great example of this is when Colossus hits Carino's character and her tit falls out. Collossus response is kind of a 1950s , immediate polite male response, Oh No BOOBS , and she just does not give a gently caress and punches him in the dick. That's eschewing a gender stereotype. If that was two guys fighting and ones shirt got torn the other wouldn't stop and be like " Oh no your nipple!" He jerks off with a Unicorn = Rainbow = QUILTBAG Like Unicorn's are a LGBT symbol. He's literally jerking off with a Rainbow tailed Unicorn if I remember right. I'll have to go back and rewatch it. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 08:21
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