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How many quarters after Q1 2016 till Marissa Mayer is unemployed?
1 or fewer
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Her job is guaranteed; what are you even talking about?
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Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


computer parts posted:

They subsidize the rides and give a bunch of freebies to gain market share.

Right. In many case it is probably more profitable for the drivers to focus on recruiting new drivers to get the reward than it is to ferry passengers around for $2 at a go.

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silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost

Mrit posted:

Uber loses money/breaks even on most of its fares. They do this because they have the cash to burn, it makes them look good, and it sucks drivers in.
Once the VC stops flowing, Uber will disappear in a flurry of lawsuits.

I think that people will be willing to pay more for an Uber should they have to raise their prices because it really is more convenient and a better experience than calling a cab. You've really got to be ideologically committed to Uber being the Great Evil to deny that it is a better experience for the customer.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Shifty Pony posted:

The leaked slides from the last funding round showed uber burned through $700 million in Q3 of 2015 alone.

Holy *cow*. Or unicorn.

Thundercracker
Jun 25, 2004

Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.
College Slice

icantfindaname posted:

The idea behind Uber and its labor model is to strip away any remaining comforts or security for the working class, so they can finally get back to toiling 12 hours a day from the cradle to the grave for the convenience of the bourgeois upper middle class, like god intended

12 hour days is a bit conservative

http://nypost.com/2016/02/07/uber-drivers-working-up-to-19-hours-a-day-just-to-get-by/

Adlai Stevenson
Mar 4, 2010

Making me ashamed to feel the way that I do

silence_kit posted:

You've really got to be ideologically committed to Uber being the Great Evil to deny that it is a better experience for the customer.

Nah, you just have to look at the long term environment a successful and permanent Uber would create to see the ultimate negative impact on the consumer.

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Flip Yr Wig posted:

But it's not totally crazy to believe that Uber does add something via their platform that could survive labor regulations and overall be a positive for the customer, is it?

I mean, Uber's business model itself probably couldn't survive being classified as non-1099, but some other company could do something with it, right?

The questions to ask are how much value does Uber derive from its control over its drivers, and how much value is derived from its pricing scheme? A legitimate operation building off of Uber's model would have to sacrifice at least one of those advantages, by either allowing drivers to behave as truly independent operators (in which case they can no longer control prices) or by treating them as employees (in which case they need to raise prices significantly).

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

What I'd like to know is where this idea of "LITERALLY WORK ALL OF THE HOURS" being a desirable thing came from. Well no I do know; rich fucks that want to run a business on a skeleton crew but still. If their drivers are working that many hours a day just to make a living that's a massive, massive problem that will need to be addressed.

Especially considering that they're probably not getting overtime. Or benefits. Or stability.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


Uber drivers are paid based on the passenger's fare, which means they don't get an hourly wage (hence the whole independent contractor line) and since they're not employees they also have to pay their own vehicle maintenance, insurance, rental lease or loan payments on the vehicle itself, fuel costs, and others I'm probably forgetting. Any time you see an $X/hour statement regarding Uber drivers it's an abstraction, if you work at a slow time or area you could easily earn nothing but still be technically working.

That's one of the reasons why somebody might put in a 19 hour day as an Uber driver, lack of fares, another is not being able to make enough money off of the fares they do get, since every time they cut prices it hurts the drivers who get paid out of that money.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Popular Thug Drink posted:

see? chauvinism. not everywhere between the coasts is a hellhole but if that's what you want to believe friend go for it

So you're telling me that Omaha and Raleigh-Durham offer the same or better access to women's healthcare and have better legal infrastructure in place to prevent people from being fired from their jobs simply for being LBGT than San Francisco and Seattle.

And next time don't be so loving lazy in your response.

eSports Chaebol
Feb 22, 2005

Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Freezer posted:

All this Uber talk reminds me of this image a friend shared a week ago, 125 GBP uber to the airport. Driver inadvertently took the scenic route...



If this were a regular cab, it would be almost impossible to get some of your money back. With Uber you have the evidence and a handy report button. Not saying that Uber is the future, but it's pushing forward some good ideas for the industry along with all of its underhanded poo poo.

To be fair, London taxi drivers as a whole are surely the most (now quite unnecessarily) overqualified automobile navigators in the entire hitherto and henceforth history of H. sapiens by quite a wide margin, so this point only really applies to other cities. Eliminating The Knowledge for licensed London taxis as as requirement is the sort of good Uber might bring about.

The X-man cometh
Nov 1, 2009

Freezer posted:

All this Uber talk reminds me of this image a friend shared a week ago, 125 GBP uber to the airport. Driver inadvertently took the scenic route...



If this were a regular cab, it would be almost impossible to get some of your money back. With Uber you have the evidence and a handy report button. Not saying that Uber is the future, but it's pushing forward some good ideas for the industry along with all of its underhanded poo poo.

It's incredible that the cab dispatch companies make Uber look good in comparison.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

silence_kit posted:

You've really got to be ideologically committed to Uber being the Great Evil to deny that it is a better experience for the customer.
This is D&D.

blah_blah
Apr 15, 2006

Kwyndig posted:

Uber drivers are paid based on the passenger's fare, which means they don't get an hourly wage (hence the whole independent contractor line) and since they're not employees they also have to pay their own vehicle maintenance, insurance, rental lease or loan payments on the vehicle itself, fuel costs, and others I'm probably forgetting. Any time you see an $X/hour statement regarding Uber drivers it's an abstraction, if you work at a slow time or area you could easily earn nothing but still be technically working.

That's one of the reasons why somebody might put in a 19 hour day as an Uber driver, lack of fares, another is not being able to make enough money off of the fares they do get, since every time they cut prices it hurts the drivers who get paid out of that money.

I mean, most medallion owners/renters aren't getting an hourly wage either, so the existing taxi system isn't a triumph of worker's rights. A few long-standing medallion owners have gotten very rich, the costs have been passed onto the consumer through lack of competition and regulatory capture, and there has been no innovation for decades.

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

Solkanar512 posted:

So you're telling me that Omaha and Raleigh-Durham offer the same or better access to women's healthcare and have better legal infrastructure in place to prevent people from being fired from their jobs simply for being LBGT than San Francisco and Seattle.

And next time don't be so loving lazy in your response.

Lots of cities have abortion clinics and dedicated activist groups? These things aren't geographically limited to within twenty miles of New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle, on pain of lynching. For example, here's a map of access to abortion clinics; you'll note that Raleigh-Duram shows up as quite well-supplied:



(Disclaimer, a few of these, especially in Texas, are now closed because Republican control of legislatures sucks donkey balls.)

For a lot of people, a places doesn't have to offer "the same or better" as Seattle or NYC of any given amenity, it just has to provide adequately, while also satisfying whatever other value judgments they care to make. You can acknowledge that large coastal cities have better services in place for marginalized populations without also condemning everywhere else as godless wastelands fit only to be burned in nuclear fire.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Solkanar512 posted:

So you're telling me that Omaha and Raleigh-Durham offer the same or better access to women's healthcare and have better legal infrastructure in place to prevent people from being fired from their jobs simply for being LBGT than San Francisco and Seattle.

And next time don't be so loving lazy in your response.

i'm sure the LGBT communities of omaha, raleigh-durham, and other red state cities appreciate your support

meanwhile, back in reality, there's lots of reasons for companies to establish branch offices in cities with a lower cost of living and we'll probably see more of that once the market cools off a little bit and some of the shine wears off the bay area

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


blah_blah posted:

I mean, most medallion owners/renters aren't getting an hourly wage either, so the existing taxi system isn't a triumph of worker's rights. A few long-standing medallion owners have gotten very rich, the costs have been passed onto the consumer through lack of competition and regulatory capture, and there has been no innovation for decades.

I agree with you there, the real issue is that Uber drivers have no control over their own income except by working more hours and taking more fares, while a medallion owner or lessee can set his own rates, depending on local legislation. Meanwhile Uber ignores all that by virtue of because they said so and because there's no real regulatory oversight drivers have no recourse aside from not working for Uber if picking up their fares results in not earning a living wage.

Honestly the whole system is due for a sea change of some sort, hopefully Uber will shake things up in the right way in the long run but right now it's not looking like it.

Bastard Tetris
Apr 27, 2005

L-Shaped


Nap Ghost

size1one posted:

There are many companies working in this space and theranos isn't the only one making big claims. Pathway genomics got called out by CBS last night for exagerating too. It's a large market, that won't go anywhere as along as people exist. The liquid biopsy cancer market alone is estimated to have a cap around 20 billion dollars. 100s of millions (maybe billions at this point?) are being thrown at companies to commercialize lab tests. It's not too surprising that some are trying to get a first mover advantage, even if that means exaggerating their efficacy.

But yeah it was very obvious to other people in the field that Theranos was full of poo poo. There are some physical constraints on these problems that require a full blood draw and you can't just magic them away. There are some paths forward but are likely many years, maybe decades, away from being clinically viable.

As an (ex)-insider: I don't know how much they were exaggerating, but the C-level folks were the cart driving the horse when it came to a lot of things, they wanted to be first to market and wanted to sell a lab-developed test as an advisory tool while working with physicians, which is all good and legal. As far as I could tell from where I sat this was a letter they got from FDA in November, it got addressed, and a few pre-clinical tests are underway.

It's a horrible company, and Grail is going to destroy them, but that CBS profile was kind of a hit piece.

blah_blah
Apr 15, 2006

Kwyndig posted:

I agree with you there, the real issue is that Uber drivers have no control over their own income except by working more hours and taking more fares, while a medallion owner or lessee can set his own rates, depending on local legislation. Meanwhile Uber ignores all that by virtue of because they said so and because there's no real regulatory oversight drivers have no recourse aside from not working for Uber if picking up their fares results in not earning a living wage.

I've actually never been to a city where cabs have the option of setting their own rates -- I can't imagine that this is a common thing. And the fact that rent-seeking medallion owners might be able to exploit the artificial scarcity created by the medallion system to further reduce the profits of their lessees doesn't seem like a positive aspect of the system.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

blah_blah posted:

I've actually never been to a city where cabs have the option of setting their own rates -- I can't imagine that this is a common thing. And the fact that rent-seeking medallion owners might be able to exploit the artificial scarcity created by the medallion system to further reduce the profits of their lessees doesn't seem like a positive aspect of the system.

Kind of the point of medallions is to give the city a certain amount of control over the system; especially how many taxis actually exist. The idea is to keep it so that there aren't so many that the city is just flooded and the price of rates stays fair.

In practice, just like literally every system that exists, somebody figured out a way to take advantage of the system as it stood and then refused to allow it to change after that. Transportation services need some changes but Uber...is not the right direction. Granted Uber also suffers from the fundamental problem of America's transportation system being "CARS CARS CARS CARS CAAAARRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSS!!!! gently caress MASS TRANSIT WE NEED MORE loving CARS!"

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


blah_blah posted:

I've actually never been to a city where cabs have the option of setting their own rates -- I can't imagine that this is a common thing. And the fact that rent-seeking medallion owners might be able to exploit the artificial scarcity created by the medallion system to further reduce the profits of their lessees doesn't seem like a positive aspect of the system.

Well yeah, both sides have aspects that are messed up. I almost want to live in the future of Hot Tub Time Machine 2 at this point, where all the cars drive themselves and nobody seems to own them, but they're legally allowed to kill you if you're not nice to them. At least then nobody would be working 12+ hours a day to make ends meet without healthcare.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

silence_kit posted:

I think that people will be willing to pay more for an Uber should they have to raise their prices because it really is more convenient and a better experience than calling a cab. You've really got to be ideologically committed to Uber being the Great Evil to deny that it is a better experience for the customer.

congrats on living in an area with poo poo taxis i guess

aksuur
Nov 9, 2003
Not sure how it is Uber's fault that people willing work for them at current pay scales.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

aksuur posted:

Not sure how it is Uber's fault that people willing work for them at current pay scales.

It isn't Uber's fault but it does point out a systemic problem that needs to be dealt with. Enough people are utterly desperate for any job at all they'll let companies like Uber blatantly exploit them.

Holyshoot
May 6, 2010
So if uber is burning cash from vc's what is their end game to be profitable? I thought people create businesses to make money through profit?

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


Holyshoot posted:

So if uber is burning cash from vc's what is their end game to be profitable? I thought people create businesses to make money through profit?

they literally don't have one. if they raise prices their market will evaporate overnight. they can't continue their current course either because it's becoming rapidly obvious to drivers they are practically subsidizing uber at the wages they're being paid. their endgame is to be bought out or IPO and bail out with what money they can

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Holyshoot posted:

So if uber is burning cash from vc's what is their end game to be profitable? I thought people create businesses to make money through profit?

My guess is to crowd everything else out of the market and form a monopoly. But that's one of the things in the software world that's been happening like forever. If that isn't their plan then their plan is high pay for the founders, golden parachutes, and loving over everybody that's doing all of the actual work.

moller
Jan 10, 2007

Swan stole my music and framed me!

Holyshoot posted:

So if uber is burning cash from vc's what is their end game to be profitable? I thought people create businesses to make money through profit?

The business cycle has contracted. In much the same way that new management can profit by looting a stable corporation for short-term returns with the intent to bail before the represcussions are felt, new management can create startups in order to to bail on them with some fraction of their unrealistic valuation as a trophy before the ship sinks.

wateroverfire
Jul 3, 2010
This was A Good Thread before it became about Uber. =(

Can we get back to that? It was really interesting.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


wateroverfire posted:

This was A Good Thread before it became about Uber. =(

Can we get back to that? It was really interesting.

That seems to happen to these threads doesn't it? Maybe we should all agree on a "no uber" rule like the Politics thread doesn't do Israel and Palestine discussion.

What I think is really interesting this go around is how much cargo culting there is going on. Steve Jobs was an rear end in a top hat who dressed in a distinctive manner, we should have a CEO like that (Theranos) and copy the format of their product announcements (Xiaomi, Samsung, many many more) because Apple was successful. Twitter took off at SXSW in Austin, so we should burn absurd amounts of money to get attention there (uncountable numbers of startups) because we want to be Twitter. You even see it with the "hey we should be worth $1B too" fake valuations. Then there is the worship of being "disruptive" as a goal itself instead of a means by which to enter a crowded market sector.

Shifty Pony fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Feb 11, 2016

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Shifty Pony posted:

What I think is really interesting this go around is how much cargo culting there is going on. Steve Jobs was an rear end in a top hat who dressed in a distinctive manner, we should have a CEO like that (Theranos) and copy the format of their product announcements (Xiaomi, Samsung, many many more) because Apple was successful. Twitter took off at SXSW in Austin, so we should burn absurd amounts of money to get attention there (uncountable numbers of startups) because we want to be Twitter. You even see it with the "hey we should be worth $1B too" fake valuations. Then there is the worship of being "disruptive" as a goal itself instead of a means by which to enter a crowded market sector.

This seems kind of related to the part where MBAs who have never seen the inside of a factory or r&d lab end up faking competence.

StabbinHobo
Oct 18, 2002

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
goddamnit we were *this* close to having an interesting thread and then faaaaaaaarrrrt 3 pages of "well my take on uber is..."

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

blowfish posted:

This seems kind of related to the part where MBAs who have never seen the inside of a factory or r&d lab end up faking competence.

The blind leading the rich

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Quorum posted:

Lots of cities have abortion clinics and dedicated activist groups? These things aren't geographically limited to within twenty miles of New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle, on pain of lynching. For example, here's a map of access to abortion clinics; you'll note that Raleigh-Duram shows up as quite well-supplied:



(Disclaimer, a few of these, especially in Texas, are now closed because Republican control of legislatures sucks donkey balls.)

For a lot of people, a places doesn't have to offer "the same or better" as Seattle or NYC of any given amenity, it just has to provide adequately, while also satisfying whatever other value judgments they care to make. You can acknowledge that large coastal cities have better services in place for marginalized populations without also condemning everywhere else as godless wastelands fit only to be burned in nuclear fire.

So are you allowed to fire people for being LGBT in Omaha or Raleigh-Durham or not? Are you able to easily access an abortion without time delays and invasive inspections or not? Are those clinics well supported by the state/local governments or are they constantly under attack? Having an activist group is one thing, having enforced laws that protect you on a daily basis is quite another.

By the way, I never claimed that other places were "godless wastelands" or whatever the gently caress you're talking about. I only claimed that there is a difference between those places and that difference isn't insignificant depending on personal needs. Sure, I'm not going to have a problem but that's because I'm a white male who likes girls, so no one is making policy trying to prevent me from voting, accessing healthcare or getting married and keeping a job.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

i'm sure the LGBT communities of omaha, raleigh-durham, and other red state cities appreciate your support

meanwhile, back in reality, there's lots of reasons for companies to establish branch offices in cities with a lower cost of living and we'll probably see more of that once the market cools off a little bit and some of the shine wears off the bay area

Again, this is loving lazy. Do you just think this poo poo doesn't matter? Ladies, do you care if you're able to access healthcare in an easy and timely manner or is that just not that big of a deal for you?

Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Feb 11, 2016

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD
what does any of this have to do with the OP

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

go3 posted:

what does any of this have to do with the OP

The collapse of the tech bubble is going to have lots of people still clustering to those expensive cities because they think flyover states are Mad Max hellholes.

The debate is over whether that belief is accurate.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

go3 posted:

what does any of this have to do with the OP

A unicorn isn't going to be successful moving to loving Omaha of all places simply because it's cheaper - their employees expect the same sorts of social protections that they enjoy in current technological hubs. This came up a few years ago when Toyota moved a major facility from California to Texas.

computer parts posted:

The collapse of the tech bubble is going to have lots of people still clustering to those expensive cities because they think flyover states are Mad Max hellholes.

The debate is over whether that belief is accurate.

The only people making the extreme claims of "mad max hellholes" are folks like you, not me. I said it makes a difference, not that they were complete shitholes.

ProperGanderPusher
Jan 13, 2012




Solkanar512 posted:

A unicorn isn't going to be successful moving to loving Omaha of all places simply because it's cheaper - their employees expect the same sorts of social protections that they enjoy in current technological hubs. This came up a few years ago when Toyota moved a major facility from California to Texas.


The only people making the extreme claims of "mad max hellholes" are folks like you, not me. I said it makes a difference, not that they were complete shitholes.

In any case, the average tech worker, which tends to be male and libertarian or some brand of squishy liberal, shouldn't feel totally out of place in Nashville or Atlanta or wherever. It's not like they're having to live in some Klansman-ridden hellhole in east Texas or something. The only things stopping many of them are the lovely weather (fair enough, tbh) and a false belief that these places are cultural wastelands.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

lol Solkanar, that's a pretty bizarre argument to be making - that bumfuck nowhere areas tend to be better to GLBT people

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


I'm not a mod, but I think this would be a better thread if we stuck to the life and death of startups. Where is a cool place to live and whether Uber is a good point are both discussable elsewhere.

Speaking of cargo-culting, a significant VC was quoted in the last year as saying that he was trying to fund startups whose founders reminded him of Mark Zuckerberg. Not iin terms of "driving personality" or whatever, but in having the same sort of background -- under 30, first-tier college, and so on. (Anybody remember details? I can't remember enough to Google.)

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the talent deficit
Dec 20, 2003

self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture





It was the walking clinical standard for autism Paul Graham and he said it was easy for founders who looked like Zuckerberg to fool him, presumably because he was still sad about missing out on FB

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