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How many quarters after Q1 2016 till Marissa Mayer is unemployed?
1 or fewer
2
4
Her job is guaranteed; what are you even talking about?
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duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


GrandpaPants posted:

The most backlash they would muster is asking themselves, "Are we the baddies?"

They already are doing that

quote:

Another employee compared working at Facebook to a comedy sketch by the duo Mitchell and Webb in which two SS officers are talking during World War II and one asks the other, “Are we the baddies?” “Waking up every morning at FB now and having this run through my head, immediately followed by ‘yes, apparently,’” the employee wrote, above a GIF of the sketch.

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Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
Well, poo poo.

Not gonna lie, I'm surprised they actually walked out.

https://twitter.com/sheeraf/status/1267494018323103746

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




There’s no one in the office right now so who gives a gently caress. You gonna go to another room in your house? Skip a meeting?

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar
"virtual walkout" :ughh:

Now I realise that didn't mean what I thought it did.



EDIT: Not a number one, but a number two.

Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 1, 2020

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
I'm going to walk out onto my front porch and shake my fist in Zuckerberg"s direction.

In reality a walk out of the skeleton data center crews would matter but everyone already walked out of HQ.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos
So it's a work stoppage? That's actual labor action, I'm not sure why you're pretending it's nothing.

Sex Tragedy
Jan 28, 2007

father of three with an extra large butt

Absurd Alhazred posted:

So it's a work stoppage? That's actual labor action, I'm not sure why you're pretending it's nothing.

Living in a tech bro bad echo chamber

netBuff
Nov 7, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
What does a short work stoppage even mean to a company like Facebook. Worst case, some new feature no one asked for is getting rolled out a day later?

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

netBuff posted:

What does a short work stoppage even mean to a company like Facebook. Worst case, some new feature no one asked for is getting rolled out a day later?

Labor unions usually use one-day stoppages as warning shots before a longer action.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004

Absurd Alhazred posted:

So it's a work stoppage? That's actual labor action, I'm not sure why you're pretending it's nothing.

things must happen immediately and on time by my watch or nothing matters

poemdexter
Feb 18, 2005

Hooray Indie Games!

College Slice

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Labor unions usually use one-day stoppages as warning shots before a longer action.

Does FB even have a labor union? Would the techbros even join it? All I can find online is stories about the cafeteria workers unionizing efforts.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

poemdexter posted:

Does FB even have a labor union? Would the techbros even join it? All I can find online is stories about the cafeteria workers unionizing efforts.

No, they don't, as far as I know. Labor action can be done without a formal union, although then you don't have most of the legal protections.

Shirec
Jul 29, 2009

How to cock it up, Fig. I

I hope that Kickstarter unionizing is the sign of more to come in that regards. More unions for everyone!

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
i feel like Zuckbook's power/hold is a massive illusion and the sooner people relize that it and birdsite should be knocked down by several billion dollars the better.


like Amazon and Google are literally part of the internet with their data centers, like does FB have a similar situation ?

Shirec
Jul 29, 2009

How to cock it up, Fig. I

PhazonLink posted:

i feel like Zuckbook's power/hold is a massive illusion and the sooner people relize that it and birdsite should be knocked down by several billion dollars the better.


like Amazon and Google are literally part of the internet with their data centers, like does FB have a similar situation ?

A lot of apps/sites use Facebook auth as their auth, it's also a big site for organizing/meetup style stuff. It isn't as integral as other things but there's a ton of hooks and ways it's used

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
I'll have you know all of the fb employees are changing their profile pics to very supportive images. This is some significant sacrifice on their part! What else do you want from them...?

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

PhazonLink posted:

i feel like Zuckbook's power/hold is a massive illusion and the sooner people relize that it and birdsite should be knocked down by several billion dollars the better.


like Amazon and Google are literally part of the internet with their data centers, like does FB have a similar situation ?

facebook has a hammerlock on a lot of forms of online advertising because of its stupendous amount of personal data

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

Delta-Wye posted:

I'll have you know all of the fb employees are changing their profile pics to very supportive images. This is some significant sacrifice on their part! What else do you want from them...?

Look at you, hero, posting sarcastically and misleadingly about a labor action! How supportive of you! Got'em!

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Absurd Alhazred posted:

Look at you, hero, posting sarcastically and misleadingly about a labor action! How supportive of you! Got'em!

facebook employees have been building and protecting a safe place for white supremacy for over a decade and are some of the highest paid workers in tech.

there's no need to cape up for them - no one deserves credit for being angry at having done something they should have known better than to do in the first place.

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Look at you, hero, posting sarcastically and misleadingly about a labor action! How supportive of you! Got'em!

I think it's fine to be skeptical about the action. I'm glad they went this far, it was more than I expected. But if they just do this action and nothing happens it will seem kinda pointless. We'll see what happens :shrug:. If they unionize that would be amazing and could have a real domino effect on the industry.

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Look at you, hero, posting sarcastically and misleadingly about a labor action! How supportive of you! Got'em!

What labor action? I'm cruising internal wikis and FB groups and I don't see anyone on the inside talking or organizing this, it's much smaller and insignificant compared to previous things I've seen, like when Kaplan hung out at kavanaughs hearing. According to NYTimes, at most, a dozen (?) people took PTO that they earned during a period of forced WFH where they were mostly posting memes and masturbating all day on the clock anyways. I'm sure zuck took notice of their disobedience lol

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

ketchup vs catsup posted:

facebook employees have been building and protecting a safe place for white supremacy for over a decade and are some of the highest paid workers in tech.

there's no need to cape up for them - no one deserves credit for being angry at having done something they should have known better than to do in the first place.

You don't have to "cape up" for people to be flabbergasted at dismissing what seems like actual labor action. You can give zero shits about them personally and yet consider what this means for the industry as a whole and for Facebook in particular.

Anyway, in other tech labor news, lots of people are angry at the GWU for their halfassed response to what's going on and to their lack of focus on game workers of color through the years:

https://twitter.com/six6jiang/status/1266827363754573826

https://twitter.com/six6jiang/status/1267206442177757184

https://twitter.com/emilybuckshot/status/1267201620359561216

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

The argument of "ending capitalism will fix racism" seems contradictory to me. The argument as I see it is that capitalism is the source of racism in our society, and that eliminating capitalism eliminates racism. Yet, why is racism so useful to and spurred on by capitalism? Because it divides workers from each other and creates false consciousness.

So if you don't try to combat racism in your org, it creates division and prevents workers from uniting together, which prevents you from challenging capital.

E: Seriously even Lenin understood this poo poo

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos

WOWEE ZOWEE posted:

The argument of "ending capitalism will fix racism" seems contradictory to me. The argument as I see it is that capitalism is the source of racism in our society, and that eliminating capitalism eliminates racism. Yet, why is racism so useful to and spurred on by capitalism? Because it divides workers from each other and creates false consciousness.

So if you don't try to combat racism in your org, it creates division and prevents workers from uniting together, which prevents you from challenging capital.

E: Seriously even Lenin understood this poo poo

A big issue with techbros is that they benefit from the barriers established by racism. “Ending racism” creates more workers with the same skillsets competing for the same jobs which dilutes their value in the capitalist market. So since techbros are notorious libertarians who do not organize, levers that create barriers and inefficiencies are valuable.

I suppose I am agreeing with you here in that racism benefits capitalism in general but also some workers can behave like capitalists despite technically being part of the proletariat but their privilege is boosting them to temporarily privileged prols.

cowofwar fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jun 1, 2020

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Absurd Alhazred posted:

You don't have to "cape up" for people to be flabbergasted at dismissing what seems like actual labor action. You can give zero shits about them personally and yet consider what this means for the industry as a whole and for Facebook in particular.

I disagree that what fb employees did today qualifies as an actual labor action.

They did not disrupt fb's operation - all four platforms it operates were/are still online. To the outside world there was zero disruption.

Ads still got served
data still harvested and collected
white supremacists still free to reinforce their own retrograde ideas
fb's algorithm still creates extremists and the company and its employees are still OK with it (https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-it-encourages-division-top-executives-nixed-solutions-11590507499)

At the most, this delayed things fb is working on out of the public's eye by a day.

If Fb employees had taken fb/instagram/whatsapp/messenger offline for a day, THAT would be a labor action.

Not working for a day, in this case, strikes me as much more performative. "We did something. We didn't work today. They got the message."

My point is that as long as those employees continue working there, the message is "you pay us enough that once in a while we need to complain about the terrible things we do. See you tomorrow."

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos
https://twitter.com/OwenResistor/status/1267568422327447552

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006





I'm curious how many employees leaving it would take before facebook decided sanctioning white supremacy was bad.

EDIT: also supreme court nominees who rape.

EDIT 2: also genocide in non-white countries

EDIT 3: also the fb-> extremist pipeline

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

poemdexter posted:

Does FB even have a labor union? Would the techbros even join it? All I can find online is stories about the cafeteria workers unionizing efforts.

Engineers are a small proportion of Facebook - of their ~45,000 employees only about 1,500 are in engineering. Much more of their workforce is made up of Sales/Marketing (biggest department - tons and tons of account managers that help people run ads), Support staff, Content moderation (both in house and thousands more contracted out), Legal & Policy etc.

E; unrelated but as we're talking about Facebook employment everybody should The secret lives of Facebook moderators and the follow up Bodies in seats. Totally harrowing.

blunt fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 2, 2020

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
I'd be shocked if it was really just 1,500 out of 45,000 that were in the engineering org. Where'd you get that number, because it sounds really off.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

An article I read quite a while ago that I can no longer find - I realise that's not helpful so instead this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-has-more-engineers-than-facebook-2015-4

suggests that Goldman Sachs employs more engineers than Facebook, so that would put the number of engineers firmly under 9,000 - still a reasonably small proportion of 45,000.

You gotta remember all of the periphery jobs that come with software development that don't involve actual engineers - project managers, designers, QA and testing etc. They're not roles that I would consider "tech bros".

My point is there's a lot of different roles and demographics represented at Facebook (or any large company really) and so responding to Facebook staff walkouts with "tech bros would never unionize" misses the point when the majority of Facebook employees aren't tech bros.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
I work at Google so I'm well aware of that stuff, that still sounds low to me.

Though, you might want to clear up whether you mean "engineers" or "in engineering", as you used both terms before, and those aren't the same thing. UX designers and engineering managers and PM's are not engineers, but they're usually in the engineering org.

"Tech bros" is basically a useless term anyway, because it's like hipster where everyone has their own definition. It can be anything from "anyone who is employed by a tech company" to "male programmers who are also jocks and assholes".

Cicero fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Jun 2, 2020

Desiderata
May 25, 2005
Go placidly amid the noise and haste...

blunt posted:

An article I read quite a while ago that I can no longer find - I realise that's not helpful so instead this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-has-more-engineers-than-facebook-2015-4

suggests that Goldman Sachs employs more engineers than Facebook, so that would put the number of engineers firmly under 9,000 - still a reasonably small proportion of 45,000.

You gotta remember all of the periphery jobs that come with software development that don't involve actual engineers - project managers, designers, QA and testing etc. They're not roles that I would consider "tech bros".

My point is there's a lot of different roles and demographics represented at Facebook (or any large company really) and so responding to Facebook staff walkouts with "tech bros would never unionize" misses the point when the majority of Facebook employees aren't tech bros.

My experience is that Project Managers, UX ideation designers, and various Agile Delivery Jira shufflers and similar software hangers on are the most the most tech bro of tech bros as they both get to be full time "idea guys in the digital space", without the rigour of having to actually do anything involving code or complex problem solving themselves. They also get to spend all day jockeying for promotion, and creating laughable sub-Ted 'innovation' talks and generating terrible unworkable projects because they have so much more free time compared the engineers who are too busy making their last dumb project work.

That's just my annecdotal experience though.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

Cicero posted:

I work at Google so I'm well aware of that stuff, that still sounds low to me.

Though, you might want to clear up whether you mean "engineers" or "in engineering", as you used both terms before, and those aren't the same thing. UX designers and engineering managers and PM's are not engineers, but they're usually in the engineering org.

Congrats on your job at Google! The exposition was for the benefit of everybody else reading the thread.

As a software engineer (but not at the big five) our organisation doesn't consider project managers, product managers etc to be in engineering (I'd consider them ops and product respectively but hey, every org is different, and don't interpret that as an insult to them, they are as important if not more so than the engineers) so for the purpose of clarification I was explicitly talking about the number of software engineers employed by Facebook.

Again though, the number isn't really the important part of the point that I was making...

Desiderata posted:

My experience is that Project Managers, UX ideation designers, and various Agile Delivery Jira shufflers and similar software hangers on are the most the most tech bro of tech bros as they both get to be full time "idea guys in the digital space", without the rigour of having to actually do anything involving code or complex problem solving themselves. They also get to spend all day jockeying for promotion, and creating laughable sub-Ted 'innovation' talks and generating terrible unworkable projects because they have so much more free time compared the engineers who are too busy making their last dumb project work.

That's just my annecdotal experience though.

Definitely agree with the bolded part, though i'd describe them (annecdotally) less as tech bros and more as "young idealists who eventually morph into quiet centerist dads" (the stereotype, this isn't a comment on gender). Maybe that's just because I'm in :britain:

blunt fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jun 2, 2020

Doggles
Apr 22, 2007

https://twitter.com/Recode/status/1267944290770128896

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1266868668727734272

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth
Every time I see Mark Zuckerberg I cannot help but to think of the famous Jaws quote. His eyes are dead, they are dolls eyes. He is an absolute sociopath.

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 11, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick

Nap Ghost

How are u posted:

Every time I see Mark Zuckerberg I cannot help but to think of the famous Jaws quote. His eyes are dead, they are dolls eyes. He is an absolute sociopath.

all I can think about is him eating toast

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:

all I can think about is him eating toast

https://youtu.be/kz_lzEhyryY

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:

all I can think about is him eating toast

Over multiple takes.

Aramis
Sep 22, 2009



blunt posted:

As a software engineer (but not at the big five) our organisation doesn't consider project managers, product managers etc to be in engineering (I'd consider them ops and product respectively but hey, every org is different, and don't interpret that as an insult to them, they are as important if not more so than the engineers) so for the purpose of clarification I was explicitly talking about the number of software engineers employed by Facebook.

As an ex-Googler having worked in a bunch of different industries as well, I can say that Project Managers and Product Managers, for the most part were/are very different at Google than other industries. I don't know how it is in other FAANGs, but I suspect it's similar. Most Project Manager and Product Owners are very much engineers, and all of the ones I've ever interacted with were still performing regular engineering duties on a daily basis (even being in the on-call first point of contact rotation). Counting them in the engineering headcount is not only reasonable, not doing so would be laughable.

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Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Why is NetFlix even in that top tier, tf do they do except make the interface worse and make it autoplay when you're browsing.

It seriously cannot take that many coders to just digitise and upload movies.

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