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Did Valkyrie drove actually thrive?
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Feb 8, 2016 17:51
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I know the most recent anime to do gangbusters is Osomatsu, and that's really a sketch comedy show.
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Feb 8, 2016 17:52
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Silver2195 posted:I admit I don't talk much about anime and manga with people in real life, but I got the impression that the anti-anime/manga backlash was almost exclusive to Something Awful. it's pretty common at least on the internet at large / among 'nerds' at large IMO a big part of it is because anime targets women and children much more than the american nerddom, which tends to enrage a certain subset of the standard 40 year old adult male audience of sci-fi/fantasy/DC comics stuff. Another part of it is different corporate structure means that there's no financial incentive for american nerd media to care about japanese stuff, so it tends to be unfamiliar to most people. Another part of it is simple casual racism/orientalism. and then of course there are real/legitimate/justified complaints about sexism or gross stuff. IMO those aren't nearly enough to explain the total level of hostility towards japanese stuff, but it is significant, and i don't want to dismiss those complaints as for anime fans IRL, actually a very large proportion of people I know, and I'm pretty young, are fans of anime stuff. i think the reflexive hostility is less among younger people icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 17:52
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drat, I was 100% certain this was going to be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP5lz2CYNR4
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Feb 8, 2016 17:54
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It's because Americans are racist, OP
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Feb 8, 2016 17:54
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icantfindaname posted:and then of course there are real/legitimate/justified complaints about sexism or gross stuff. IMO those aren't nearly enough to explain the total level of hostility towards japanese stuff, but it is significant, and i don't want to dismiss those complaints
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Feb 8, 2016 18:03
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quote this post in order to gather all our energy, to dismiss those complaints
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Feb 8, 2016 18:05
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Endorph posted:quote this post in order to gather all our energy, to dismiss those complaints i want to find a third way, where you acknowledge the bad without turning into zorak it's like the neutral path, in hit video game smt iv. it might be difficult, and lonely, but with isabae I know I can press on
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Feb 8, 2016 18:11
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Endorph posted:quote this post in order to gather all our energy, to dismiss those complaints \o/
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Feb 8, 2016 18:11
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Tarranon posted:i want to find a third way, where you acknowledge the bad without turning into zorak also you quoted the post, so you still gave me your power
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Feb 8, 2016 18:13
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not to mention there's kind of the inherent problem of trying to judge japanese media through a western lens of sexism. like what reads as sexist to you isn't going to read as sexist even to the most hardcore feminist in japan, because feminism in japan is different from feminism in the west. likewise, something that reads as cool to you could read as really hosed up to a jp lady. im not saying that means all animes are immune from criticism, im pretty sure valkyrie drive or the anime about the ninja whose boobs get bigger as her power level increases aren't going to win women the right to vote no matter where you're from, but going all 'tut-tut, anime would be great if it was less sexist to me, the dude from vermont' is weird
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Feb 8, 2016 18:17
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Would be chill if everyone who wants to talk about Godard would have to spend some time talking about how disgusting Serbian Film and Gang Rape Bus 69 or whatever is
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Feb 8, 2016 18:21
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sorry flaps but I am an enemy of bad faith and false equivocation. im going to have to cast a spell on u
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Feb 8, 2016 18:23
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Also part of it is because of the comparative lack of indie/artsy stuff / a lack of a certain level of polish in anime. It still exists but it's not a movement to nearly the extent of like video games or comic books over the last few years. That's not really that big a problem in my eyes because I know enough / care enough to find the diamonds in the rough but it's part of why more prestigious media doesn't care about or is hostile to animeEndorph posted:quote this post in order to gather all our energy, to dismiss those complaints Endorph posted:not to mention there's kind of the inherent problem of trying to judge japanese media through a western lens of sexism. like what reads as sexist to you isn't going to read as sexist even to the most hardcore feminist in japan, because feminism in japan is different from feminism in the west. likewise, something that reads as cool to you could read as really hosed up to a jp lady. i think a lot of complaints about sexism in japanese media are justified (i'm sorry, my ultimate loyalty is with the revolution, not anime  ) but there's a definite double standard where people don't care at all about stuff like DC comics glorifying literal fascism or gears of war having all the female characters shipped off to rape camps as part of the in-canon story but like naruto gets ripped a new rear end in a top hat for sexism because the female characters aren't active enough and there's the occasional lame, inoffensive boob joke
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 18:24
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I am always 100% sincere.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:26
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Tarranon posted:sorry flaps but I am an enemy of bad faith and false equivocation. im going to have to cast a spell on u I don't know what these words mean but I also think you and Endorph probably agree
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Feb 8, 2016 18:28
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icantfindaname posted:Also part of it is because of the comparative lack of indie/artsy stuff / a lack of a certain level of polish in anime. It still exists but it's not a movement to nearly the extent of like video games or comic books over the last few years. That's not really that big a problem in my eyes because I know enough / care enough to find the diamonds in the rough but it's part of why more prestigious media doesn't care about or is hostile to anime 1. What even is "a lack of a certain level of polish" 2. Where's all the indie/artsy western television
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Feb 8, 2016 18:30
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DoubleDonut posted:2. Where's all the indie/artsy western television Adventure Time
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Feb 8, 2016 18:33
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I read a lot more manga than I watch anime, but I dunno if they appeal to different groups in the US. I don't really overhear people talking about manga like I sometimes hear people talking about anime (SAO and co., mostly).
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Feb 8, 2016 18:34
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there is no media more prestigious than anime
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Feb 8, 2016 18:35
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Endorph posted:there is no media more prestigious than anime
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Feb 8, 2016 18:36
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Silento posted:I read a lot more manga than I watch anime, but I dunno if they appeal to different groups in the US. I don't really overhear people talking about manga like I sometimes hear people talking about anime (SAO and co., mostly).
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Feb 8, 2016 18:37
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DoubleDonut posted:1. What even is "a lack of a certain level of polish" 1. Bad animation / writing / production values / having a show that does one thing well but everything else is minimum effort because the audience only cares about that one thing so why bother 2. TV, especially network TV has a lot of that problem but I think you're seeing more shows with better production values / more polish. Like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Mad Men, etc. I'm not really a TV guy though so I don't know that much about this
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Feb 8, 2016 18:37
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The tv series (NOT AN ANIME) Awake felt like an artsy show to me, despite being on a major network. But maybe I'm confusing generally mysterious show with being artsy
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Feb 8, 2016 18:38
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Endorph posted:it's probably just a matter of accessbility. You can stream a lot of anime on crunchy or whatever for free, but you need a sub just to read shonen jump, and most manga released in the US is years after it was released in japan. Not to mention it's easier to just grab a $50 boxset than it is to buy 17 volumes I do have a Jump sub, but pretty much all the other manga I read is pirated. I'm a bad person!!!!!! 
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Feb 8, 2016 18:38
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There's plenty of anime that are bad, yes. There's also approximately a million terrible sitcoms on American networks that get canceled every year because they're dogshit while the most popular shows include a bunch of samey police procedurals and the loving Big Bang Theory, so that seems like a pretty big double standard
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Feb 8, 2016 18:39
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Endorph posted:there is no media more prestigious than anime Video Games are Art, OP
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Feb 8, 2016 18:39
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icantfindaname posted:1. Bad animation / writing / production values / having a show that does one thing well but everything else is minimum effort because the audience only cares about that one thing so why bother
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Feb 8, 2016 18:39
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I'd say there's a good degree of artsy/indie stuff when you factor in manga
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Feb 8, 2016 18:41
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I imagine higher production values in live action TV are easier to do when you can easily reuse props and stage sets and all that fun stuff. Also it's kinda hard to have stilted animation with real people.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:41
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Like, you don't get to talk about The Sopranos and Mad Men if your standard for anime is unending shonen/light novel bullshit. Compare those shows to stuff like Ping Pong or Monster and you might have an actual discussion, but I don't think you can say Ping Pong has bad animation, writing, or production values
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Feb 8, 2016 18:41
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Endorph posted:this absolutely happens in tv, film, and western animation. like absolutely. sure, but there's very much a conscious movement towards higher quality media, stuff like adventure time/steven universe/gravity falls in animation, indie games, and in movies and tv. there's no shortage of good, well-made anime but they're not really consciously emphasized by the industry and i think if they were you would see a lot more attention and support from hipster/indie types, who like it or not pretty much run things outside japan now
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Feb 8, 2016 18:43
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Endorph posted:it's probably just a matter of accessbility. You can stream a lot of anime on crunchy or whatever for free, but you need a sub just to read shonen jump, and most manga released in the US is years after it was released in japan. Not to mention it's easier to just grab a $50 boxset than it is to buy 17 volumes it's a real shame on a number of levels
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Feb 8, 2016 18:44
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icantfindaname posted:sure, but there's very much a conscious movement towards higher quality media, stuff like adventure time/steven universe/gravity falls in animation, indie games, and in movies and tv. there's no shortage of good, well-made anime but they're not really consciously emphasized by the industry and i think if they were are you like some sort of taintreaper for anime
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Feb 8, 2016 18:45
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DoubleDonut posted:Like, you don't get to talk about The Sopranos and Mad Men if your standard for anime is unending shonen/light novel bullshit. Compare those shows to stuff like Ping Pong or Monster and you might have an actual discussion, but I don't think you can say Ping Pong has bad animation, writing, or production values i'm not saying that, i'm saying the anime industry seems just as happy to churn out unending shounen/LN bullshit as it does to make things like Ping Pong, whereas american media as of 2016 at least puts on a show of caring about polish and production values
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Feb 8, 2016 18:46
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Tell me more about how hipsters are the ones who run things nowicantfindaname posted:i'm not saying that, i'm saying the anime industry seems just as happy to churn out unending shounen/LN bullshit as it does to make things like Ping Pong, whereas american media as of 2016 at least puts on a show of caring about polish and production values What exactly is caring about polish and production values in The Big Bang Theory, the most watched show on television?
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Feb 8, 2016 18:46
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icantfindaname posted:i'm not saying that, i'm saying the anime industry seems just as happy to churn out unending shounen/LN bullshit as it does to make things like Ping Pong, whereas american media as of 2016 at least puts on a show of caring about polish and production values
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Feb 8, 2016 18:46
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force awakens was not made because of a love for their craft and a desire to truly tell a story, it was made because it would make them $$$
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Feb 8, 2016 18:47
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icantfindaname posted:i'm not saying that, i'm saying the anime industry seems just as happy to churn out unending shounen/LN bullshit as it does to make things like Ping Pong, whereas american media as of 2016 at least puts on a show of caring about polish and production values Oh my god, please.
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Feb 8, 2016 18:48
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icantfindaname posted:Also part of it is because of the comparative lack of indie/artsy stuff / a lack of a certain level of polish in anime. It still exists but it's not a movement to nearly the extent of like video games or comic books over the last few years. That's not really that big a problem in my eyes because I know enough / care enough to find the diamonds in the rough but it's part of why more prestigious media doesn't care about or is hostile to anime I actually more often (on non-SA places like rpg.net, at least) see the reverse, where people are a lot more willing to condemn Western media than anime as "problematic."
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Feb 8, 2016 18:48
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