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We can only pray not
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Sep 15, 2020 08:12
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nah, he's got a super mode already and it's called berserk ADD: also seriously, if you guys want boomer shooters, how many fuckin low rent indie games aiming for that 90s nostalgia kick did they announce in that 3d realms stream? i swear it was nothing but them lol and you wonder why i'd prefer some more complexity in a doom game, because tbh most of those games look generic as gently caress and sgtmarkiv can still go gently caress himself and his extremely garbage literal brutal doom reskin toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 08:33
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toasterwarrior posted:
The problem with this is that "Classic" shooters very often completely miss the mark on what made those classic shooters good. It wasn't just balls to the wall hundreds of guys to shoot and moving fast. Sure Doom was gory for it's time and sure Doomguy moves at a million miles an hour but just recreating the handful of design features they remember does not make it feel like the good old games did. So you end up with a lot of junk. Also yes, gently caress the trash pit that is brutal doom forever.
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Sep 15, 2020 08:59
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I played brutal doom a few years ago and I thought it was a weird and fun mod, I know that SgtMarkiv is a piece of poo poo but I dont get where the hate for brutal doom comes from, it’s an interesting twist for like an hour or two.
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Sep 15, 2020 09:09
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AirRaid posted:The problem with this is that "Classic" shooters very often completely miss the mark on what made those classic shooters good. It wasn't just balls to the wall hundreds of guys to shoot and moving fast. Sure Doom was gory for it's time and sure Doomguy moves at a million miles an hour but just recreating the handful of design features they remember does not make it feel like the good old games did. *cough* Serious Sam *cough*
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Sep 15, 2020 09:10
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Al-Saqr posted:I played brutal doom a few years ago and I thought it was a weird and fun mod, I know that SgtMarkiv is a piece of poo poo but I dont get where the hate for brutal doom comes from, it’s an interesting twist for like an hour or two. The problem is that a lot of games jouranlists and johnny-come-lately doomers suddenly started slinging around this "brutal doom is doomier than doom!" acting like its a complete replacement and the original game somehow is flawed and doesn't work in 2020 because its just so OLD so you need BRUTAL to FIX it. You also see a lot of these people posting on the forums like "oh I played such map wad with brutal doom and it was bad or easy" or whatever and it gets old because obviously it wasn't designed for that.
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Sep 15, 2020 09:12
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toasterwarrior posted:nah, he's got a super mode already and it's called berserk There's ways to give games depth and complexity other than fiddly character action mechanics and it's kind of obnoxious to pretend anyone who isn't into them as much as you is some kind of nostalgic simpleton. I'd like a Doom game with more elaborate enemy designs and levels with challenging geometry that aren't just largely interchangeable arenas, which I'm fairly happy in counting as 'complexity', I just don't want to have to deal with an control system you have to study to use correctly or a scoring system that moves the difficulty away from surviving the encounter at all to getting an SSS megacombo. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 09:25
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yeah no, my point is that if you want good takes on doom gameplay, there's probably some gems in that dross, along with noted good already-released stuff like dusk and amid evil. by all means fuckin play them; i have played the better ones from this resurgence and ive found out at a certain point it all blends together because there's only so much you can do with that old paradigm
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Sep 15, 2020 09:51
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There were a lot of terrible Doom clones back when Doom was recent as well.
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Sep 15, 2020 10:56
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Zaphod42 posted:*cough* Serious Sam *cough* I actually half wrote then deleted a second line about how there were some games that managed to be good while actually NOT specifically trying to ape classic games. Serious Sam and Painkiller were the two examples I had. Neither of which started as that, although you can draw some pretty heavy comparisons, because they share similar design elements. Crucially though, those things sit alongside other stuff which they do on their own, and as a whole package they work. It's the second part that lot of these new generic "OMG SO CLASSIC" shooters lack.
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Sep 15, 2020 11:13
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Zaphod42 posted:The problem is that a lot of games jouranlists and johnny-come-lately doomers suddenly started slinging around this "brutal doom is doomier than doom!" acting like its a complete replacement and the original game somehow is flawed and doesn't work in 2020 because its just so OLD so you need BRUTAL to FIX it.
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Sep 15, 2020 13:14
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Al-Saqr posted:I played brutal doom a few years ago and I thought it was a weird and fun mod, I know that SgtMarkiv is a piece of poo poo but I dont get where the hate for brutal doom comes from, it’s an interesting twist for like an hour or two.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:01
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Russian Overkill is my "This WAD is beyond me, I shall render it to its constituent atoms" of choice. Having been cruising through the WADs Bethesda included one thing I will say is Doom 5's gameplay loop isn't built for sprawling maps like youll get with these WADs, especially the BTSX 2 maps that just got added. While there is exploration, the need to have encounters be tightly and strictly defined means it doesn't work in a more freeform setup that these maps revel in. Now after having written all of that, Doom 5 x Metroid Prime crossover mod when?
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Sep 15, 2020 14:31
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did people also whine about quake having jumping and significantly more verticality when it came out, or is it the unspoken rule that when you want to iterate on what's possible with a style of gameplay, you should only do it with a new series
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Sep 15, 2020 16:00
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People whined that Quake was slower than Doom. Which was done for several technical reasons tied to the new 3D tech.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:26
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toasterwarrior posted:did people also whine about quake having jumping and significantly more verticality when it came out, or is it the unspoken rule that when you want to iterate on what's possible with a style of gameplay, you should only do it with a new series Bring on more hyper-mobile shooters. Tribes 4 Lyfe
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Sep 15, 2020 16:48
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Doom 1993 works better than many of the generic boomer shooters because it's not just generic areas, the level design was interesting and varied. Likewise doom 2016 has interesting level and varied level design with enough new mechanics to keep it interesting. The generic feeling boomer shooters tend to put you in a one big box with enemies after another with nothing to really distinguish one box from the next except textures. And again new mechanics aren't bad. Dash is a great addition to doom gameplay. I think the updated chainsaw mechanic with regenerating fuel could have been good if the weapons had a higher base ammo. Weapons should have started with about as much ammo as you get when their fully upgraded. I want the focus to be moving and shooting in varied settings. I don't want to have to deal with doing an MMO rotation while shooting, that isn't my idea of fun.
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Sep 15, 2020 21:52
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Boomer shooters typically have varied enemies whereas newer ones only have the same enemies with varied weapons and maybe a turret section or two
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Sep 15, 2020 22:02
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toasterwarrior posted:did people also whine about quake having jumping and significantly more verticality when it came out, or is it the unspoken rule that when you want to iterate on what's possible with a style of gameplay, you should only do it with a new series The internet was nowhere near as loud as it is now
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Sep 15, 2020 22:48
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My (very limited at the time) perception was that people were generally still going "whoa" at the technological accomplishments that allowed verticality and jumping, but was mainly shat on for being another FPS and viewed as iD being unable to get away from doing doom clones.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:53
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The SP was crap (awesome music aside), the MP was all. Seeing the game on a 3dfx for the first time was a singular moment in time though, tell you whut
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Sep 15, 2020 22:58
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The first time I saw Quake I thought it was a horror game because of something about the box art, so I kinda avoided it for a bit. I played the crap out of Doom and Heretic and Dark Forces but Quake seemed like less my thing. My mom's boyfriend ended up playing it with me and we blasted through the campaign in co-op and then payed a ton of QTF. I ended up buying it so I could play more Team Fortress. I guess ultimately it was kinda like half-life in that even though I did enjoy the campaign and it was memorable, the game was more of an engine to play mods with to me.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:10
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I think reconceptualizing the "mmo buttons" would do DOOM a big favor. You can replace flamethrower with the SSG hook completely from the start and both grenades could be put on different alt fires as well. Making them more natural parts of your arsenal. It might help sell those functions to boomer shooter players easier. Additionally that would free those buttons for taunting and style switching or something. Really hope that they keep refining the formula even more in the future. I need higher concentration of that poo poo right into my veins.
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Sep 16, 2020 07:44
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What we need is to add cover-based shooting mechanics to Doom There is no way this will go wrong
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Sep 16, 2020 16:49
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Vinylshadow posted:What we need is to add cover-based shooting mechanics to Doom only if doomguy uses other demons as the cover
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Sep 16, 2020 16:51
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Snazzy Frocks posted:only if doomguy uses other demons as the cover A button to grab a live demon and use them as a temporary shield would own so hard. Imagine fighting a cyberdemon and grabbing the nearest hell knight to block a rocket volley
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Sep 16, 2020 16:55
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that feature is actually in brutal doom and im going to have to be not for it because it was a major sign of feature bloat in the mod
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Sep 16, 2020 16:57
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Vinylshadow posted:What we need is to add cover-based shooting mechanics to Doom The carcass is right there, and he sucks
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Sep 16, 2020 17:08
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Jack Trades posted:both grenades could be put on different alt fires as well. I wasn't sure how much having both grenade types actually added. I liked the freeze grenade but I found myself not really using the frag grenade much. The functionality was similar enough to the sticky grenade that I found myself always just switching to the shotgun and using a sticky grenade instead of switching grenade types and using a frag. Especially since the frag has a CD to keep track of whereas the sticky grenade didn't. Personally I would axe the frag grenade and just have the sticky. Are any of you using the frag that much?
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Sep 16, 2020 17:28
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Frag is that extra point of damage when you're already unloading your guns into something and you need it to go down right now. Also since its on a separate CD than the freeze there's no reason not to chuck one into the fray as a +1. Freeze is more useful to keep ready for if you're caught flat-footed by something e.g a snakey thing.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:40
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I used frag a bunch on PC when I could bind everything so that it was actually convenient to reach/use. I never used frags on Xbox except by accident.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:49
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frag is extremely powerful, the cluster bomb feature will take out a heavy if enough fodder is around it, but mainly the benefit is that it's a guaranteed flinch on anything. toss it at a mancubus and you have a window of opportunity to go for a blood punch and break an arm cannon/armor, which can be easier to do in certain situations over a quickscope
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Sep 16, 2020 17:50
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Frag flinches demons when upgraded which lets you get close to a mancubus for a blood punch without them activating their aoe attack.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:56
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Initially I only used frags for dumping into a crowd of zombies or whatever that I just set on fire, so I could move on and come back to collect the giant pile of armor later. But I noticed that speed runners use it a to to flinch dangerous enemies and burn them down or go in for a blood punch safely. It's really helpful in the first couple of levels. Frag > Blood Punch > Sticky on an arachnotron and Frag > spam stickies/precision bolt on a Hell Knight are lifesavers before you get the SSG/Ballista combo.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:29
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tuo posted:The carcass is right there, and he sucks
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Sep 16, 2020 19:44
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Hulk Krogan posted:Initially I only used frags for dumping into a crowd of zombies or whatever that I just set on fire, so I could move on and come back to collect the giant pile of armor later. But I noticed that speed runners use it a to to flinch dangerous enemies and burn them down or go in for a blood punch safely. It's really helpful in the first couple of levels. I suppose I do use it in the early levels when weapons are limited. If nothing else the grenade swap button feels extraneous, I wish I could just bind one button to ice grenade and 1 button to frag grenade esp as unlike weapon mods your only really limited by how fast you can hit the button. TheGreySpectre fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 20:32
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The Kins posted:The Carcass is fun No
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Sep 17, 2020 08:27
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Forget the Marauder. Carcass is the real demon mvp. I can't help but laugh every time he fucks me over in the most spectacular way.
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Sep 17, 2020 08:54
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When Carcass is acting like a legitimate enemy, then you can dust off the destroyer blade and slice him in half through anything he puts up for a nice bit of variety  Not so much when you gotta trundle over to a bounce pad to deal with mister wallhax shield spawning them through terrain with no line of sight, as indicated by the little energy trail  At least when the Marauder hides behind his shield, it's because he is looking right at you and getting shot at.
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Sep 17, 2020 09:13
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Carcass is my friend who keeps giving me free plasma explosions to help kill the other demons 
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Sep 17, 2020 09:33
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