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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!


Mierenneuker posted:

If there were no triggers you'd probably end up spending a lot of time waiting for stuff to happen. I remember being frustrated by a Silent Assassin attempt (or one of the challenges, not sure) of the Chinese New Year level in Absolution simply because there was so much downtime between the first and second kill. Especially since there were a lot of ways to screw up the third one.
You could probably combine the two ideas though. A trigger to hurry things along, a timer for when you don't mind waiting to pull off the perfect hit.

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Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


I'd like to play a hitman level where you play as someone getting their revenge on hitman, you have to chase him through a big level and all the while he's changing his disguises and knocking people out, if you don't catch him before he reaches the end of the level it's game over.

Like pacman but with strangulation.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Mierenneuker posted:

If there were no triggers you'd probably end up spending a lot of time waiting for stuff to happen. I remember being frustrated by a Silent Assassin attempt (or one of the challenges, not sure) of the Chinese New Year level in Absolution simply because there was so much downtime between the first and second kill. Especially since there were a lot of ways to screw up the third one.

Absolution's not a great example because it's scripted proximity event city.

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

I'd like to play a hitman level where you play as someone getting their revenge on hitman, you have to chase him through a big level and all the while he's changing his disguises and knocking people out, if you don't catch him before he reaches the end of the level it's game over.

Like pacman but with strangulation.

Something like this was the plan for the New Orleans and Amendment XXV levels in Blood Money, but it proved to have too many working parts and not be very fun, which is why the devs added the payment delivery part and made it really easy to start up/disrupt the scripting that caused the hit in NO.

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


Discendo Vox posted:

Absolution's not a great example because it's scripted proximity event city.


Something like this was the plan for the New Orleans and Amendment XXV levels in Blood Money, but it proved to have too many working parts and not be very fun, which is why the devs added the payment delivery part and made it really easy to start up/disrupt the scripting that caused the hit in NO.

Yeah I never got round to playing blood money, only ever played contracts and absolution.

Bought the first hitman game for pc last year and it just point blank refused to work, only cost me 1 though.

By comparison I got absolution for free and still felt like i'd been mugged

Brazilianpeanutwar fucked around with this message at Feb 25, 2016 around 14:48

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Blood Money is widely considered to be the best in the series so you should get to that at some point. The first game's kind of poo poo and janky and the best levels from that game were remade and vastly improved in Contracts anyway, which you've already played.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich


Contracts is my favourite because of the sheer drat atmosphere of the game. I also enjoyed Absolution a lot, but take that for what it is.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I thought Absolution was an okay stealth and shooting game. It just wasn't what a Hitman game should be and higher difficulties were total bullshit and not fun like they were in Contracts and Blood Money, especially since I still don't know how you're supposed to do well in purist mode because instinct is pretty much mandatory yet that gets disabled in purist.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich


Mr. Fortitude posted:

I thought Absolution was an okay stealth and shooting game. It just wasn't what a Hitman game should be

That's pretty much how I looked at it. I really enjoyed Blood Money, don't get me wrong, but Absolution really clicked with me even if it's story was...something else (absolutely loved the ambiance and NPC chatter mind).

A ton of the humour relying on 47 being a stony faced sociopath was cheap but made me laugh like a buffoon.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


poptart_fairy posted:

That's pretty much how I looked at it. I really enjoyed Blood Money, don't get me wrong, but Absolution really clicked with me even if it's story was...something else (absolutely loved the ambiance and NPC chatter mind).

A ton of the humour relying on 47 being a stony faced sociopath was cheap but made me laugh like a buffoon.

A lot of people give Absolution poo poo but I still think it's a better game than all of Codename 47 and about half of Silent Assassin. Codename 47 is just way too janky, has the awful jungle levels and some levels require you to be pretty much psychic and know exactly what to do at the right time or you'll fail. Silent Assassin's Russia and Malaysia levels were great but the India levels were a mixed bag and Afghanistan was terrible and Japan was rightfully voted by the community as having the worst levels in a Hitman game of all time.

poptart_fairy
Apr 8, 2009

by R. Guyovich


I don't think I ever made legitimate progress in Silent Assassin so I can't remember a drat thing about it. Game seemed so much harder than the first I couldn't get my head around it.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

I liked the first Japan mission, where you kill the dude in his house, preferably with poison sushi. The two missions with ninjas were just god awful though.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


poptart_fairy posted:

I don't think I ever made legitimate progress in Silent Assassin so I can't remember a drat thing about it. Game seemed so much harder than the first I couldn't get my head around it.

Enemies are a lot more jittery and suspicious in Silent Assassin. You pretty much have to keep your distance from people even while wearing a disguise and never run. This is also what made the Japan levels so frustrating because they gave everyone stupidly huge vision in those levels despite it taking place in a blizzard and guards were prone to being run over by their own trucks which would then count against you for the Silent Assassin rank for pretty much no reason. Contracts was a lot more lenient about guards getting suspicious, in that you'd need to be near people and hang around them for a while before they figured out you're an imposter.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

This is also what made the Japan levels so frustrating because they gave everyone stupidly huge vision in those levels despite it taking place in a blizzard

The problem with the Japan missions, one in particular, was that the ninjas would see through your full body, face covering disguise that looked liked all the other costumes, but for some reason wasn't the "right" one for that particular area. I didn't mind the vision cones nearly as much as that bullshit.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011



Muldoon

I enjoyed the atmosphere in Blood Money the most because it's not dark, which I think better highlights how much of a hosed up outsider 47 is. I think the biggest step back from Contracts was having the vast majority of missions take place in the US, but it still did way better in that regard than Absolution.

I haven't played Codename 47 or Silent Assassin but I'll get around to it one of these days I'm sure.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

My working theory on SA is that in addition to IO's seemingly constant budget/schedule shortage problems, completely different teams were responsible for the different "location" sets of missions in the game. The design approach used in different locations is generally consistent with separate teams experimenting with and coming to different conclusions about the proper mission philosophy. I haven't played codename 47, but I suspect the same approach was used there, given the similar diversity of approaches.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Codename 47 didn't really have a ranking system, only that you get penalized by getting less money if you kill civilians or cops. There was usually only one way to do missions too unless you were really good at shooting and staying alive. At least the non-action levels in Silent Assassin give you different approaches to your target, which Contracts and Blood Money vastly expanded upon.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006



Mr. Fortitude posted:

Codename 47 didn't really have a ranking system, only that you get penalized by getting less money if you kill civilians or cops. There was usually only one way to do missions too unless you were really good at shooting and staying alive. At least the non-action levels in Silent Assassin give you different approaches to your target, which Contracts and Blood Money vastly expanded upon.

I would say there are maybe four or five levels total in the first two hitman games that actually have much leeway to do anything interesting. Even Russia had a couple of missions that are absolutely linear as gently caress.

The one sin of Blood Money is how easy it is. Disguises are pretty much absolute and you can empty a level of guards with an explosive.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Panzeh posted:

I would say there are maybe four or five levels total in the first two hitman games that actually have much leeway to do anything interesting. Even Russia had a couple of missions that are absolutely linear as gently caress.

The one sin of Blood Money is how easy it is. Disguises are pretty much absolute and you can empty a level of guards with an explosive.

I think the only level you had any kind of freedom in C47 is Traditions of the Trade, since to get the key to where the bomb is you had to kill the other Fuchs brother and you had some choices in how to deal with that. In SA, you had choices but there was usually one choice in particular which was almost much better than any of the others and not doing that choice was basically doing a challenge run.

Kontradaz
Oct 30, 2010

"The next world. The next plane of existence."


Hardtarget posted:

hmmm GMG sent me a 25% off coupon that I can use to get the intro pack for like 12 bucks and it includes beta access.

I just don't know, I love hitman, and it looks like fun, but are they gonna gently caress people over on intro -> full pack pricing or who knows? i kinda want to get it as the giantbomb quicklook of the beta looked pretty good.

Lol. Just spent the 12 loving dollars jesus.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song


Taco Defender

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I thought Absolution was an okay stealth and shooting game.

Hitman isn't a shooting game. Its a shoot a single bullet game. Only thing I dont like about the newer ones, is you dont have to leave the mission in your suit for SA.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Tenzarin posted:

Hitman isn't a shooting game. Its a shoot a single bullet game. Only thing I dont like about the newer ones, is you dont have to leave the mission in your suit for SA.

That was only a thing in Blood Money and I'm not even sure if it's a requirement for SA on anything but Professional difficulty.

Kaiju Cage Match
Nov 5, 2012



What are some of the fun and unusual ways you killed someone?

I'll start: In the redneck wedding level, I killed Pappy by placing a mine in his chicken bucket (normally I just shove him into the water).

...poo poo now I want to do a RUAP-only run (which would be tough for any missions requiring killing more than two targets).

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


In You Better Watch Out, shooting the jacuzzi bottom and watching everyone fall to their death is always a fun thing to do. I also really liked the ejector seat kill from the Beta.

Mr Scumbag
Jun 6, 2007

You're a fucking cocksucker, Jonathan


Mr. Fortitude posted:

I also really liked the ejector seat kill from the Beta.

The way it was done also tells you all you need to know about the devs having a sense of humor like in the old games. I'm glad that there will still be ridiculous/light-hearted moments like that again. It is part of the franchise's charm.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, there's no better time to watch retired stealth superstar prenatual's Absolution Perfect Assassin Playthrough. Prenatual basically breaks the game over his knee in a wide array of ways to complete the game with an absurd ruleset: Suit only/Purist/No non-target knockouts or kills/ All targets killed with fiber wire/All evidence collected/All bodies hidden, with nigh-impossibly low times. Best of all, it's annotated so you can learn exactly how he does it.

This includes the bullet time tutorial area.

It's a shame- MGSV basically sapped his will to play and he's stopped recording videos.

Anyhoo,
Fave kills from each game I've played:

SA: St. Petersburg Revisited, you know who, fiberwire. Tensest, best kill in the series, despite how much I love Contracts.

Contracts: Deadly Cargo, Boris, SWAT infiltration/bomb disarm.

BM: Requiem, Alexander Leland Cayne, suicide.

Absolution: Ummmm....This, which I managed to pull off the beginning of. Skipping most of the penthouse level was great.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at Feb 26, 2016 around 07:52

Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010





Nap Ghost

Tenzarin posted:

Hitman isn't a shooting game. Its a shoot a single bullet game. Only thing I dont like about the newer ones, is you dont have to leave the mission in your suit for SA.
There was a Suit Only Silent Assassin challenge for the base mission in the beta, there was an issue of it only unlocking SOSA and not SA though. A great improvement is bodies don't need to be dumped in containers for SA like Absolution, just not found by the time you leave the level.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I also really liked the ejector seat kill from the Beta.
Eh, that and the opportunities feels way too scripted. I'd much prefer the ejector seat method if an engineer could decide to get the guy themselves and you had a window of opportunity for sabotage (as well as being able to start it early by using a disguise).

Based on the large survey I got they seem a bit sensitive over how Opportunities will be received as well, which makes sense given how they went about using them in the beta.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.




So, I bought the prologue thing, digitally via ps store, that gave me access to the beta. Can I now buy the full game, at a discounted rate?

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

Wheeeeeeeeeeee.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Mr. Fortitude posted:

I'm pretty sure those kills were from past games. The fugu fish was from the first Japan level in Silent Assassin, the drowning was from C47/Contracts in the hotel and the strangulation was from the first real level of Blood Money I believe.

And the strip club mirror shooting was from Absolution.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I'm pretty sure those kills were from past games. The fugu fish was from the first Japan level in Silent Assassin, the drowning was from C47/Contracts in the hotel and the strangulation was from the first real level of Blood Money I believe.

You're right- I'm not sure which mission from Codename 47 is the basis for the sniper rifle scene at the start, though. It's one of the chinese ones, going by the sign. None of them gave you a silenced sniper rifle, I think.

It still has nothing on the intro to Contracts.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2016 around 09:25

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

And the strip club mirror shooting was from Absolution.

Yeah, though I've forgotten a lot about Absolution.

Discendo Vox posted:

You're right- I'm not sure which mission from Codename 47 is the basis for the sniper rifle scene at the start, though. It's one of the chinese ones, going by the sign. None of them gave you a silenced sniper rifle, I think.

It still has nothing on the intro to Contracts.

That's from Blood Money too, where you can call the Sheikh in the Vegas hotel and snipe him as he takes the call.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

That's from Blood Money too, where you can call the Sheikh in the Vegas hotel and snipe him as he takes the call.

It's not. It's one of the china missions from the first game-probably the very first one. Watch the sign again-it switches between chinese symbols and the CASINO.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Discendo Vox posted:

It's not. It's one of the china missions from the first game-probably the very first one. Watch the sign again-it switches between chinese symbols and the CASINO.

I've no idea then. The first Hong Kong mission is the only one that encourages the use of a sniper rifle but it didn't take place at night and I don't think there was a casino billboard sign either. The Contracts version did take place at night but sniping wasn't really the best way to complete that mission anymore in the Contracts version.

Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012


Mr. Fortitude posted:

I've no idea then. The first Hong Kong mission is the only one that encourages the use of a sniper rifle but it didn't take place at night and I don't think there was a casino billboard sign either. The Contracts version did take place at night but sniping wasn't really the best way to complete that mission anymore in the Contracts version.

yeah instead of sniping from the building you setup at the grassy knoll

its some jfk level poo poo that mission

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011




WindyMan posted:

Wheeeeeeeeeeee.



Looks about right for Hitman Blood Money 2.

Stuffing everyone but a single person into the garbage truck in A New Life is still one of the high points for me.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Discendo Vox posted:

You're right- I'm not sure which mission from Codename 47 is the basis for the sniper rifle scene at the start, though. It's one of the chinese ones, going by the sign. None of them gave you a silenced sniper rifle, I think.

That scene, while not actually featured in the game itself, was a piece of concept art from Blood Money and a centrepiece in its marketing.

TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2016 around 12:41

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

That scene, while not actually featured in the game itself, was a piece of concept art from Blood Money and a centrepiece in its marketing.


All of the kills from the trailer are in the order in which the games were released. The skyscrapers from the background are in Hong Kong. While it might be influenced by the marketing for Blood Money, it's a scene from Codename 47.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


The discovery of several hidden bodies, indicates this is the work of a criminal.

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


Finally got Blood money downloaded on the 360 last night, first impressions.

. The graphics haven't aged well or were never that good anyway, same for how the characters are animated, but 47 looks great.

.No crouch toggle and not enough control options.

I managed to SA the wine mission and the opera mission and it was very satisfying seeing it all come together.

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TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


I've been playing through Blood Money with my favourite playstyle of rapidly and silently eliminating security with suppressed weapons.

I also downloaded H2SA only to remember why that isn't possible in that game.

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