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Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


There were only about 5 levels in Hitman 2 I could get Silent Assassin on, most of them are the early Moscow levels. Guards are just way too twitchy and suspicious in that game, even if you're on the other side of the road, walking slowly and have appropriate weapons and disguises. Contracts improved it a lot so that people didn't get suspicious quite so quickly and then Blood Money arguably made it a little too easy by making you get no suspicion unless you're in an area you're not supposed to be.

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Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Sindai posted:

Am I reading it right that the new Hitman is going to have 8 missions once they're all released?

It's not completely surprising since Blood Money only had 12 (not counting the murder spree funeral epilogue) and level creation only gets more expensive as time goes on but I bet that's going to be a tough sell for a lot of people, which helps explain the intro pack I guess.

Well the levels are going to be fairly sprawling and Contracts mode from Absolution is said to make a return so you could replay through levels and do different things to get to different targets the community has set.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Yeah I think after the controversy surrounding Bateson being replaced during Absolution and IO only buckled and brought him back to voice 47 after fan complaints, they aren't going to be dumb enough to do the same thing a second time.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


First person would probably work well if you were doing a psychopath bloodbath run. But I remember it feeling clunky and awkward to do more stealthy stuff in Blood Money in first person mode.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Just tried out the beta myself and I really really liked it.

Like others have said, it feels like Blood Money but has the style, controls and production values of Absolution. Performance is also really solid too for a beta. I'm pretty hopeful for the full game.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I'd imagine it can't all be scripted events if there are going to be randomized targets for events and community targets in Contracts mode. That or IO really haven't thought things out.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I think Square-Enix Montreal were going to do their own Hitman game independent from IOI, but that idea got canned or something.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


s0m3 guy posted:

am i the only person who likes the original hitman storyline???

There's not really much to the storyline in any of the games.

Codename 47: You're some clone who's been trained to kill since a kid who escapes during routine training, falls in with an agency who puts hits on people and then find out all of your major targets were part of the French Foreign Legion who were the genetic basis of 47. 47 gets called back to the asylum he escaped from, murders his clone brothers and then the professor who created him.

Silent Assassin: The brother of one of your targets in the first game kidnaps some priest and 47 comes out of retirement to perform hits and retrieve parts of a nuclear missile for him, his identity gets blown and he tries to kill 47, you kill him and save the priest.

Contracts: It was literally all a dream except for the final level.

Blood Money: Some FBI guy is the head of a rival agency who really wants 47 dead, so his death gets faked so he can kill the FBI guy at his own funeral.

Absolution: Turns out the Agency is corrupt and is training a little girl to be a supersoldier killer and 47 doesn't want her to go through the same things he did.

The series works best without much of a story. When the story becomes the focus of the game, like in Absolution then problems arise.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


khwarezm posted:

I sometimes wonder if Absolution's structure would have been tolerable if the story was at least good, but its not so

The story of Absolution would have been fine if the level design was just as open as Blood Money. It's just that Blood Money designed the story around the levels whereas you get the impression the opposite happened with Absolution.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

Well there's more to Contracts than that. It's a story-within-a-story. The frame narrative takes place during an off-screen incident in Blood Money that's otherwise only alluded to in that game's dialogue (It occurs to me that if, for some reason, you hadn't played Contracts, you'd have no idea what Diana was talking about when she mentions 47's recovery and you'd have no idea who 47's stalker was in the previous scene, or what happened between them), and rest of the missions are retellings of missions for the first game or other as-yet unknown contracts, presumably those that occurred between the end of Codename 47 and his retirement.

Well yeah, but it was still mostly a dream. Most of the levels in the game were either raining or snowing and that's because subconsciously the rain outside, dripping from the tap in the bathroom, the doctor pouring alcohol onto his wound was influencing them. I don't really count the remade Codename 47 levels in Contracts as canon because of that. Everything is a lot darker and more nightmareish than any other game in the series.

It is kind of cool how it's set immediately after the opera level in Blood Money though and the atmosphere is very stylish and moody, with great music accompanying it. But people calling it Hitman 2.5 and the accusations of it being a pointless filler game aren't entirely unfounded, even though Contracts was the first Hitman game I truly enjoyed and I've got a lot of fondness for (I had played Codename 47 and 2 before but the former was too janky for me to enjoy and the latter had bullshit stealth where everyone gets way too suspicious way too quickly).

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Look Sir Droids posted:

The 25% off only applies to the intro pack? If it's for full version too, please send to me. I'll use it if you don't.

What I've heard of episodic pricing is $15 for the initial intro pack and then $10 for each addition. I think there are supposed to be 5 additional maps. So if you buy episodically the total would be $65. Not a huge loss to buy per episode if you end up liking it. With 25% off the intro it would only end up costing you $2 more.

No, it works for the full version too. I bought the whole thing via GMG a few days ago. Sadly, it looks like codes aren't reusable so I can't give you the one I used.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I'm pretty sure those kills were from past games. The fugu fish was from the first Japan level in Silent Assassin, the drowning was from C47/Contracts in the hotel and the strangulation was from the first real level of Blood Money I believe.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


poptart_fairy posted:

Yeah, this struck me as a way of saying that it isn't a continuity reboot. Those old games happened in the timeline they have here.

From what I understand, the first few levels are set right after the tutorial level of C47 but before the Hong Kong levels of C47 and the rest of the game is set after Absolution.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


You know, the identity of the man who worked alongside Sergei in Hitman 2 never was revealed and 47 never did encounter him. I'm wondering if that new trailer will shed some light on him.

Budzilla posted:

I've always enjoyed the series. Although I couldn't go back and play the first 2 again even though Traditions of the Trade(hotel) in HM1 was probably one of the best levels ever in any game. The Japanese levels were the worst in the second game, I tried so hard to get SA rating on expert for the level in the castle I eventually run and gunned the level.

Also I liked how 47's contempt for Agent Smith throughout the series just increased, when 47 'recalls' the Lee Hong Assassination in Contracts and breaks Smith out of the stocks he doesn't care if Smith gets injured and just wants to kill the guy by BM.

I played Absolution for a hour and thought it was a step back for the series, I'm glad there is good word of mouth in this thread.

I also wonder if Agent Smith will return. Since this game seems to have a bit more of a sense of humor compared to Absolution.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Discendo Vox posted:

RPS is reporting that bugs are pretty common- and detection ranges are pretty limited. They also have the same complaint about proximity-flagged events. How does this square up with other folks' impressions?


Yeah, I hadn't seen much of the beta "story", so I missed that part-my bad!

I don't think whoever wrote that article seemed to be aware that the beta difficulty settings was locked at normal and enemy AI is always dumb at that difficulty setting in every Hitman game.

I've also never really encountered any grievous bugs or performance issues that others have reported. Right now my only real issue with the beta is how scripted it is.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Blood Money is widely considered to be the best in the series so you should get to that at some point. The first game's kind of poo poo and janky and the best levels from that game were remade and vastly improved in Contracts anyway, which you've already played.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I thought Absolution was an okay stealth and shooting game. It just wasn't what a Hitman game should be and higher difficulties were total bullshit and not fun like they were in Contracts and Blood Money, especially since I still don't know how you're supposed to do well in purist mode because instinct is pretty much mandatory yet that gets disabled in purist.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


poptart_fairy posted:

That's pretty much how I looked at it. I really enjoyed Blood Money, don't get me wrong, but Absolution really clicked with me even if it's story was...something else (absolutely loved the ambiance and NPC chatter mind).

A ton of the humour relying on 47 being a stony faced sociopath was cheap but made me laugh like a buffoon.

A lot of people give Absolution poo poo but I still think it's a better game than all of Codename 47 and about half of Silent Assassin. Codename 47 is just way too janky, has the awful jungle levels and some levels require you to be pretty much psychic and know exactly what to do at the right time or you'll fail. Silent Assassin's Russia and Malaysia levels were great but the India levels were a mixed bag and Afghanistan was terrible and Japan was rightfully voted by the community as having the worst levels in a Hitman game of all time.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


poptart_fairy posted:

I don't think I ever made legitimate progress in Silent Assassin so I can't remember a drat thing about it. Game seemed so much harder than the first I couldn't get my head around it.

Enemies are a lot more jittery and suspicious in Silent Assassin. You pretty much have to keep your distance from people even while wearing a disguise and never run. This is also what made the Japan levels so frustrating because they gave everyone stupidly huge vision in those levels despite it taking place in a blizzard and guards were prone to being run over by their own trucks which would then count against you for the Silent Assassin rank for pretty much no reason. Contracts was a lot more lenient about guards getting suspicious, in that you'd need to be near people and hang around them for a while before they figured out you're an imposter.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Codename 47 didn't really have a ranking system, only that you get penalized by getting less money if you kill civilians or cops. There was usually only one way to do missions too unless you were really good at shooting and staying alive. At least the non-action levels in Silent Assassin give you different approaches to your target, which Contracts and Blood Money vastly expanded upon.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Panzeh posted:

I would say there are maybe four or five levels total in the first two hitman games that actually have much leeway to do anything interesting. Even Russia had a couple of missions that are absolutely linear as gently caress.

The one sin of Blood Money is how easy it is. Disguises are pretty much absolute and you can empty a level of guards with an explosive.

I think the only level you had any kind of freedom in C47 is Traditions of the Trade, since to get the key to where the bomb is you had to kill the other Fuchs brother and you had some choices in how to deal with that. In SA, you had choices but there was usually one choice in particular which was almost much better than any of the others and not doing that choice was basically doing a challenge run.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Tenzarin posted:

Hitman isn't a shooting game. Its a shoot a single bullet game. Only thing I dont like about the newer ones, is you dont have to leave the mission in your suit for SA.

That was only a thing in Blood Money and I'm not even sure if it's a requirement for SA on anything but Professional difficulty.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


In You Better Watch Out, shooting the jacuzzi bottom and watching everyone fall to their death is always a fun thing to do. I also really liked the ejector seat kill from the Beta.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

And the strip club mirror shooting was from Absolution.

Yeah, though I've forgotten a lot about Absolution.

Discendo Vox posted:

You're right- I'm not sure which mission from Codename 47 is the basis for the sniper rifle scene at the start, though. It's one of the chinese ones, going by the sign. None of them gave you a silenced sniper rifle, I think.

It still has nothing on the intro to Contracts.

That's from Blood Money too, where you can call the Sheikh in the Vegas hotel and snipe him as he takes the call.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Discendo Vox posted:

It's not. It's one of the china missions from the first game-probably the very first one. Watch the sign again-it switches between chinese symbols and the CASINO.

I've no idea then. The first Hong Kong mission is the only one that encourages the use of a sniper rifle but it didn't take place at night and I don't think there was a casino billboard sign either. The Contracts version did take place at night but sniping wasn't really the best way to complete that mission anymore in the Contracts version.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


BillBear posted:

He still looks more normal than before though, he's just closer to his actual age (around 60?) in the newer builds.

Also those trailers make me sad that the only films we'll likely ever get are poo poo because drat, a proper hitman film could actually work if done right.

Apparently he was 48 years old as of Hitman Absolution. So he's probably younger looking in the tutorial levels and older looking for the rest of the game.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Discendo Vox posted:

47 pretty much doesn't age anymore, probably. The targets from the first hitman game received clone-grown, genetically enhanced organs from Ort-meyer that gave them the near-superpowers they possessed in the game. 47 is a whole human being made out of such material.

I don't remember anyone but Pablo having super powers and that is more due to him being completely high on cocaine that small arms fire do pretty much nothing to him. All the other targets die relatively easily.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Doesn't this game have experimental DX 12 support? That could possibly result in the framerates being somewhat low, since I think they'll be adding features and optimizing for it as new episodes come out.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Absolution makes me wonder if it was originally supposed to be Kane & Lynch 3, but Square-Enix wanted them to make a Hitman game instead because Hitman was much better received. The kind of tasteless grindhouse feel Absolution has would better fit Kane & Lynch and they both make cameos in the game too.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


MinibarMatchman posted:

I kind of hope IO gives us the ultimate fanservice mission as a thank you down the line, and send 47 to whatever remote country Kane and Lynch have ended up in to assassinate them.

I get the feeling IO are oddly attached to Kane & Lynch for some reason, so you're just going to have to make do by starting a bar brawl with Kane and framing Lynch for shooting at garden gnomes in Absolution.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


That's good it's still ongoing. I was planning on doing it today.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Killing The Forger wasn't too bad though I only got a 4 out of 5 for the rating. Do we know how frequently Elusive Targets will be released? I don't mind coming back to the game every so often but I'd hate to be playing it near daily out of fear I'd miss stuff.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Has anyone else encountered a bug where subduing someone sometimes kills them?

I'm trying to do some escalation contracts in Paris but like 50% of the time I subdue someone, it says non-target killed and it's ruined a couple of my runs.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Saladman posted:

It's way under 50% for me -- probably around 5% of the time I try to subdue someone they die.

I thought it might be intentional actually. Like sure you're a professional, but if you go around choking out a bunch of 70 year-old priests and undertakers, probably they won't hold up so well.

I think it's something to do with collision. If you choke someone out but they're close to a desk or chair or something that their head will briefly clip through it, they seem to die and I managed to reproduce that numerous times through manual saves and experimentation.

It is a bug though, since the developers are apparently aware of it. They're just taking their sweet time to patch it.

Edit: This is magical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP5OIof9PDk

Mr. Fortitude fucked around with this message at May 15, 2016 around 10:58

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Yeah I wouldn't use DX12. Supposedly it works okay with AMD cards but last time I tried it, I got micro-stutters, weird graphical glitches and other little oddities. Stick with DX11 until they fix it.

Though I'm kind of hoping the developers will patch in Vulkan support in the future.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Darkhold posted:

Tried switching to DX11 so far it seems like the hitching is gone. You guys come through as always. Course if it comes back I'll blame you personally.

You're not really missing any eye candy by using DX11. DX12 just does multithreading much better which results in performance gains but Hitman's implementation of it is very spotty.

Chexoid posted:

A weird thing I've noticed with the subduing bug is that it happens like 100% of the time when you're doing it from around a corner or from behind cover or something. Much less frequent when you're just straight crouched.

Yeah, I think if the body collides with something, like a door frame or chest of drawers while you subdue them, it counds as a kill. If they're away from other objects like that and they're not facing at an angle when you subdue them then it seems to work fine.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Ah poo poo. One of the mansion staff guys turned around at the worst possible moment and I got screwed out of a Silent Assassin rating that way. So far I've succeeded in killing both elusive targets, but managed to get unlucky enough that someone found the body before I could stash it and get out of there both times.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


AdmiralViscen posted:

Bought this yesterday and played the tutorial.

Went to try Paris today and it just crashes when I select Play, over and over again. What's the deal? I am deleting it and reinstalling it.

You should have just verified the integrity of your files instead as it checks the installation files for any errors and fixes them instead of redownloading the whole game. Also don't use DX12 mode, it's broken. I wouldn't be surprised if that's caused the crashes.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I have to say, despite the new Hitman being the game which gives the least amount of poo poo about the story out of the whole series, it ironically manages to have what I think is the most interesting. I'm very curious to see where the overall story of the game goes and what the Shadow Client's goals are.

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Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


Got a Silent Assassin for this target. It took a while, but I knocked out the priest and hid him in the room leading to the cellar, then knocked out the bodyguard as the cardinal entered the cellar and then strangled the cardinal on his way back upstairs and hid them all in that room.

Kind of a boring way to do it, but hey it's my first Silent Assassin rank for an Elusive Target since the previous times something always screwed up at the last minute.

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