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Yep, I'd love to play. Also I would recommend making explicit that night actions are processed in the order listed in the OP, so for example the Jailer who target the Roleblocker makes the RB fail, and if the SK targets the Scum nightkiller, the Scum kill fals to happen.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 02:56 |
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# ¿ Mar 28, 2024 17:25 |
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Eh, but SK goes subsequent to Town, so that if a victim dies in the night despite the Doc/Jailer getting a "successful" night result, that power role can know it was an SK kill.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 03:28 |
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Another question worth getting answered up front... will you take replacements? Will you modkill for inactivity? I recommend explicitly declaring that you won't replace or modkill, in hopes that only people willing to solidly commit will sign up. Replacement issues marred Podima's game, but later on, the decision of not replacing or modkilling TheCog after he went inactive lead to some pretty interesting action and strategic play. Any modkill pretty much destroys this setup.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 04:58 |
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Friction.123 posted:As the OP says, I am reserving the right to modkill at my own discretion. I might put in a blurb about replacements being only a last resort option though, since emergencies and other weird things do happen. Especially the practice of replacement, it's totally corrosive in subtle ways. When it's an option, there's less commitment. Also, a Scum needs to be able to demoralize and intimidate and bait people into looking Scummy, and it's not fair to Scum if someone can just replace out after being galled into a tantrum and be replaced with a set of fresh eyes that can look at the thread objectively and easily dodge a mislynch. The mind game is all part of the fun. Just my soapbox opinion, I should take it to the discussion thread because this is your game I think you'll do great.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 20:01 |
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Really awesome to see new players! A great setup for newbies!
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# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 19:53 |
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Eager
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# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 22:24 |
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Confirming. Let's see if this setup can indeed be broken with a massclaim. Step 1 is to claim POWER or BACKUP. Lumpen claims POWER
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 08:51 |
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This game was to be the designated testing ground of the massclaimbreaksgame theory of King Burgundy's from before it started. I feel this setup is so masterfully designed and exquisitely balanced that a D1 massclaim does not significantly disrupt the outcome. To test this, the orthodox strategy at this point is for everyone to claim Power or Backup. The Scum and SK should claim Backup. Then we lynch the most suspicious of the Backup claimers, and the nightkills will target among the 5 Power claims, but the Doc has a better chance of a successful protect, and the BP Miller also has a better chance to absorb a kill. The Jailer and Tracker and Cop are all better targeted toward the Backups claimers, and it makes the Tracker become closer to a Cop. Any successful nightkills of the Cop, Doc, Jailer, or Tracker will just be replaced with only the loss of one night's result knowledge. On D2+ after thus sort of massclaim the pool of Backup claimers up for lynch is complicated by the fact that they may claim or fakeclaim the inherited roles, but this becomes more dangerous because roles are only inherited once and they can not just claim "Power" without having their specific role revealed. So yeah, I think we should try the massclaim route, it should NOT break the game. Kashuno, if you are Town, explain your thought process in at least 75 words. Until then ##vote: kashuno
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 16:36 |
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Khris Kruel posted:the only way I see Lumpen not being a horrible player here is if he's bulletproof. From how I'm looking at the setup I think that's the only way to stop the serial killer. Why would you rolefish like this? Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I am a Power. So come try and kill me tonight, Serial Killer Khris Kruel. ##vote Khris Kruel
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 16:45 |
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Khris Kruel posted:This is dumb. Just loving call the game "Massclaim mafia" if you want to play mafia around massclaiming. You should check out Podima's recent Battlestar Galactica game, especially the Scumdoc, if you haven't.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 16:50 |
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Khris Kruel posted:I'm the Jailor, gently caress off We'll see about that. Still more likely SK in my opinion. If KK is lying, I would not recommend a counterclaim at this point. Breadcrumbing could be helpful though. ##vote kashuno
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 16:55 |
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JakeP posted:Its not playing Wifom its making a reasonable statement based on what the SK wouldn't do. SK needs to be the last player alive. Claiming a power role puts them in obvious danger the second that the player with that role flips
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 17:34 |
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kordansk posted:Uh, not really. I am a bit confused. First you want a massclaim, and I understood what your logic behind it was, though I don't think you really considered how it would be harmful to town. But it seems like you are just willing to believe the jailor claim, even without questioning it. Rage answering is a null read for the most part. Lastly, why would you ask someone to breadcrumb more information. That is probably even worse than just claiming. Yes you do indeed seem quite confused. If KK is lying, then someone else is the real Jailer (maybe even me!) and I am saying that for them to coubterclaim KK would not be wise in my opinion. Breadcrumbs are a good idea for winning a counterclaim battle later in the game, and (later) for Powers embedding results in hopes they can be usefully found and decoded for info after the breadcrumber dies and flips. I want a massclaim only because I designed this setup and I've seen it run through twice and I think it can't be broken by a massclaim but I wanted to prove it. Its an experiment. I think the setup is balanced to tolerate a D1 massclaim, but still if not for the experiment I think it is slightly more advantageous to massclaim later (usually around D3), depending on the state of the game. I explained how it is probably just as beneficial to Town as it is potentially harmful. If KK is really the Jailer that would be a harmful claim for Town, I think. Still not disastrous, because this setup can tolerate dumb crazy ballsy things and wills still come down to a dramatic nail-biting conclusion! If there are less than 6 claims of Powers today, we should take any Power claimers off the table for lynch today. If we get 10 or 11 claims of Powers, then that would trigger a fullclaim and we'd start thunderdoming the paired counterclaimants.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 17:47 |
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JakeP posted:Sure I can see that, but at this point the best thing to do regarding him is let him be until someone else flips jailer Agreed.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 17:49 |
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Haha this setup can even gracefully and excitingly handle a hosed up partial massclaim D1 with a mix of soft and hard claiming. It is unbreakable!
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 17:52 |
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Khris Kruel posted:because mass role claims aren't fun. My time is precious and if you guys want to waste a fun setup do it on your own time. Khris Kruel posted:talking about open set ups is just a way for scum to disguise their posts and pretend they're contributing. Mass role claims on day 1 are never pro town This setup is different. Maybe you're being disingenuous as a gambit, I'll generously keep that in mind.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 18:32 |
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Kashuno posted:yes.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 18:33 |
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Khris Kruel posted:you're trying to rationalize a neutral stance into something scummy.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 19:09 |
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Kashuno posted:I like how you guys are homing in on me voting for a claimed power role when we have DAYS left until deadline and he's in no threat of being immediately gently caress off with your fake concern. What is the story exactly? You are playing super Scummy and I can't see a good explanation for that besides concluding that you're likely Scum.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 19:41 |
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Here's where we stand currently. Did I miss any claims or refusals?
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 21:22 |
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King Burgundy posted:Jake claimed backup. Make your stance known, folks.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 21:27 |
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Kashuno posted:how will it avoid a mislynch exactly? If we have 6/7 claimed power roles, what did you gain from this? Are we going to all out our actual power role afterwards? What if you have conflicting claims there? What if all the scum claim backup, and we gain literally nothing while scum gains the entire game set up? You are acting like a dunce, or a Scum.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 21:32 |
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Kashuno posted:We will avoid lynching a power role. If 3/4 scum claim power roles then..what? We hunt backups until we decide to test counterclaims?
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 21:33 |
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Jon Irenicus posted:I wanted to ask a few question or two to Lumpen (or anything staunchly pro-claim). However, in the last Nailbiter it was suggested that a D1 massclaim breaks the game (in favor of Town) and I disagree. It was sort of agreed by several people that we'd test it out and see in the next Nailbiter. If anything, a massclaim D1 in this setup would make a Scum win impossible. Kashuno acting like it is Town suicide is very suspicious. KK (and now Amoeba) getting all huffy and acting like it's an insult to Mafia is also pretty suspicious. This setup gives Scum little wiggle room for fakeclaims. In both previous Nailbiters, the Scum seemed to be on the verge of certain victory but in the end got exposed and defeated largely by botching their navigation of the fakeclaim space. There are positives and negatives to claiming at any time, including a D1 massclaim. I contend that I succeeded at my goal of designing this setup to deliver an exciting and close contest regardless. A massclaim D1 is a valid and not inherently unbalanced scenario, I believe. Several of us have been hoping to test that hypothesis. One thing I will say though, in this setup, once the ball is rolling on softclaims, I agree with King Burgundy that it is in Town's best interest to make the most of it by going all in. Leaving additional ambiguity and uncertainty in the gamespace is something Scum can exploit. They benefit most by having only one or two claims at a time because they have a single nightkill. Town Powers also benefit from the softclaimspace being clearly delineated as well, once it starts getting staked out. Fullclaiming vs softclaiming provides little or no additional benefit to Town, but huge benefit to Scum and SK. The reasons should be obvious. Fullclaiming happens later when there's night action info. Actually fullclaiming probably still doesn't break the game because the role interactions have so much headfaking and WIFOM possibilities. I think if we are going to trg a D1 massclaim, Town gets most of the benefit by softclaiming first though. If the Scum all claim Power, then yeah fullclaims happen.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 22:33 |
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Kashuno posted:to expand on it, it's not the case that being yea/nay on a mass claim is going to produce any meaningful read on a player. I am town and nay on a massclaim, and I'm sure there are town that are yea on a massclaim. It's distraction from actual mafia playing, and it doesn't give us useful information to work with. A "neutral" case as presented earlier is actually pro scum, because it's a waste of time which is not on the side of town. There was no yea/nay voting to time the massclaim this time, your point is moot, refuting a point nobody was making.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 22:40 |
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Amoeba102 posted:More like an insult to the mod. Much like lurking or shitposting is an insult to the mod putting effort into making the game, trying to break it in some way is the same thing. It's mostly the intent which is the insult. But that's kind of your thing, isn't it. The mod said it was fine and I created the setup! I am not trying to insult myself by breaking my own setup, because it is not breakable, and so trying to break it is a compliment not an insult. Also this is all much better than a dumb jokephase and it is totally hot Mafia action and an exciting D1 with heavy posting velocity! The mod posted that he was having fun. I, for one, am already biting my nails!
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 22:45 |
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Here's where we are:
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 22:51 |
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Amoeba102 posted:It's not an insult to break the setup, it's an insult to break the setup and make the game moot. It's the making the game moot part which is the insult, but you're too focused on the glory of your setup to think of games that way. It in no way makes the game moot AT ALL. There is a ton of strategy and permutations and intricate interactions and headfakes and WIFOMing embedded deep deep beyond where even a D1 massclaim can go. The Versatile Backup mechanic is key. The setup is highly resistant to being "made moot". Look at the end of the BSG Nailbiter game. The Scumdoc is probably the best way.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 23:03 |
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Khris Kruel posted:when I'm immune from lynch simply because I've claimed a power role, you're not playing mafia In any Mafia game wouldn't claiming a power role and not being counterclaimed pretty much make you "immune from the lynch"? The same incentives are at play here. Nobody asked you to fullclaim. It strikes me as an unwise move whether you are telling the truth or not. If you are truthful though, at least you have less power to gently caress up the game than you would in a game without Versatile Backups.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 23:39 |
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Hi kordansk, while you are here please say whether you are a Power or Backup.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 00:21 |
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Khris Kruel posted:What's hilarious is that even if a cornered scum was getting votes and they claimed jailor, everyone would vote me first, not even caring that I claimed it first Why would a hypothetical "cornered Scum getting votes" choose Jailer to fakeclaim? If you got lynched and flipped Jailer they would still be doomed. If you were Jailer, any other fakeclaim would give them better advantage. Maybe you were "just kidding" when you made that claim? If you want to say that, better now than later.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 00:28 |
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kordansk posted:I like closed games a lot more than C9++ or other open setups because it ends up turning into a math game which usually is heavily distracting from actually finding scum.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 00:29 |
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Khris Kruel posted:with how everyone wants to lynch me, I'd fakeclaim jailor if I was cornered scum at this point. It'd be a 1 for 1 trade
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 00:31 |
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kordansk posted:I'm not foot dragging. Also, calling a post scummy because it disagrees with your premise of claiming is not scummy, it's just disagreement. Throwing that word around makes me think you really don't understand what scummy means or you just want to subtlety discredit me.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 00:44 |
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Oh ho ho ho, that makes 5 Power claims. Will there be another???
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:02 |
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Birdstrike posted:I already claimed power
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:05 |
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Khris Kruel posted:you know something we don't? If you are not the SK I am still also interested in eventually finding out whether the SK claims/has claimed Backup or Power in this situation. I am assuming that all the Scum will claim/have claimed Backup.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:10 |
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Aafter posted:And the wiki says I should claim my role on day 1. I'm a miller. Oh brother. You have been visited by the duncecap skelton of kashuno. Poison will come to you in the night unless your next post is "Thaks Mr. Kashuno"
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:29 |
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A Thunderdome between claimed BP Millers is pretty ideal for D1. It is the only Power that doesn't get inherited anyway. If we lynch the non-Town, then we have a Confirmed Town who is a pain in the rear end to get rid of for the Scum or the SK. I'll put my money on the breadcrumbs. ##Vote Aafter
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:33 |
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# ¿ Mar 28, 2024 17:25 |
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Ok I suppose the Millers claims can simmer. ##Vote kordansk until he gets with the program.
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# ¿ Mar 8, 2016 03:45 |