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Fates is also weird in that the two actually gay characters are also terrible people.
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Feb 28, 2016 20:45
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Why is that weird?
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Feb 28, 2016 20:49
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I dunno. Maybe its because the only representative figures are also broken husks of what they used to be. The lesbian character is even implied to be interested in the My Unit/Avatar because of what happened to them in the past. Which IMO is a weak-rear end way to start representing any sort of homosexual relationship. Nintendo has shied away from anything regarding homosexuality so as the first foray its...not that heartening.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:18
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Rigged Death Trap posted:I dunno. One of the hardest things to do about representation is not just representing good people but showing that someone can be homosexual but still be a bad person for other reasons. You have to find this balance between mincing evil stereotypes, and sterile token characters. Equilibrium is a dumb movie for a lot of reasons, but the fact that the main villain was black without being a black stereotype was really good, and something that should happen. And I don't remember any other black characters, but I never felt like he was a villain because he was black. But yeah, if only the bad characters have those traits, that's not a good place to start. Japan is in general not really as far along on gay acceptance as you might think as a teenager discovering yaoi and yuri for the first time. Or perhaps they were better in the 90s and the US has passed them, I don't know. Uh... anyway, I'm derailing.
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Feb 28, 2016 22:52
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Spek posted:Dungeons and Dragons Online had something very similar. The word bastard was censored and D&D contains bastard swords. So you'd occasionally see people trying to trade their +3 Holy ******* Sword of Pure Good or the like. I don't think that was ever fixed, not while I still played at least, though it was an unpopular item type so it didn't come up too much. Dark Souls 2 has a filter like that. It censors sequences of letters in the middle of words, resulting in filtering "Persephone" to "Persep**ne" and "Knight" to "K***ht." I had to stare at that second one a while to figure out what had happened. On top of this, the banned word list apparently includes "dog."  foobardog posted:One of the hardest things to do about representation is not just representing good people but showing that someone can be homosexual but still be a bad person for other reasons. You have to find this balance between mincing evil stereotypes, and sterile token characters. Equilibrium is a dumb movie for a lot of reasons, but the fact that the main villain was black without being a black stereotype was really good, and something that should happen. And I don't remember any other black characters, but I never felt like he was a villain because he was black. I asked some of my anime friends about this, and they say yaoi is generally targeted at girls, and yuri at grown-rear end men. Additionally, it's seen as common and not unhealthy/abnormal for girls to go through a lesbian phase, but they're expected to grow out of it and date guys like grown-ups. So yeah, the US appears to be ahead of Japan. Beyond that, though, Nintendo is...weird. Around about 2003 when Xbox Live had developed into a Big Deal, the president of Nintendo commented that online multiplayer was "a fad." Flash forward to the latest Smash Brothers game and Nintendo proudly described during interviews how if a connection is interrupted it will seamlessly replace your human opponent with an AI one. They said this as if it were a good thing that you can never know whether the come-from-behind victory you pulled was against a real person. Point is, I have no goddamn clue whether Nintendo is representative of Japanese social mores as a whole, or if this is just another issue they're out of touch on.
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Feb 28, 2016 23:15
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I think I read somewhere that when the Jesuits came to Japan in the 16th century they though Japan was really great except for the paganism and the widespread acceptance of homosexuality. Blue Footed Booby posted:Dark Souls 2 has a filter like that. It censors sequences of letters in the middle of words, resulting in filtering "Persephone" to "Persep**ne" and "Knight" to "K***ht." I had to stare at that second one a while to figure out what had happened. I believe that is called the "Scunthorpe problem" because residents of Scunthorpe were blocked from creating AOL accounts in 1996 because the swear filter picked up on the oval office inside Scunthorpe. No idea if the good people of Penistone have had similar problems. FreudianSlippers has a new favorite as of 23:36 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 28, 2016 23:33
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Dark Souls 2 has a filter like that. It censors sequences of letters in the middle of words, resulting in filtering "Persephone" to "Persep**ne" and "Knight" to "K***ht." I had to stare at that second one a while to figure out what had happened. I'd say it's probably more of a general Japanese thing. They tend to be very conservative when it comes to business, and are usually pretty traditionalist when it comes to the way they do said business. They didn't used to put tasteful depictions of homosexuality in their games before, so they won't do it now. The same went for online functionality, even if they still don't do it very well.
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Feb 29, 2016 00:27
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foobardog posted:But yeah, if only the bad characters have those traits, that's not a good place to start. I like Niles.  I mean he joins on the same turn as a weirdo who chose Odin Dark as an alias. He's relatively stable in terms of eccentric weirdos in Fire Emblem.
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Feb 29, 2016 01:06
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I really wish the general Japanese public knew about George Takei. An activist and pioneer like him would be such a great role model to so many people over here: an Asian actor who got on TV and became well-known for a non-stereotypical role during a time when that was practically unheard of, and an openly gay celebrity whose shtick isn't "I will gently caress any and every man I see because I am gay, you see! You'd better watch out, men!". It might help to enlighten a few people over here, too. There was (still running, maybe?) a drama on basic cable over here with a lesbian relationship between the two main characters which made lots of headlines. As mentioned above, lesbian stuff is marketed to grown men, so it's not surprising that it got green-lit, but I really can't see a high-profile TV show with a realistic relationship between two men happening any time soon.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:42
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FWIW by all accounts the translation made the gay characters worse.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:53
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FreudianSlippers posted:I think I read somewhere that when the Jesuits came to Japan in the 16th century they though Japan was really great except for the paganism and the widespread acceptance of homosexuality. I think japan's "acceptance of homosexuality" was similar to Greek pederasty where an adult man would have an underage male lover. You couldn't be in a relationship with another adult
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Feb 29, 2016 03:04
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AlphaKretin posted:FWIW by all accounts the translation made the gay characters worse. This is actually the opposite. The only significant change made to the characters is that the lady has a different final support conversation for dudes and ladies and the lady/lady one includes lines like "I wish I'd be been born a man" and various other things. In the English version they're the same between both genders (which was already true for the guy.)
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Feb 29, 2016 03:18
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Speaking of Nintendo and censorship, there's the whole issue of crossdressing, transexuality, and ambiguous gender that gets totally whitewashed for American release compared to their Japanese counterparts as is the case with Birdo the dinosaur, Vivian the ghost (from Paper Mario), and Gracie the giraffe (from Animal Crossing).
Teriyaki Koinku has a new favorite as of 06:17 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 04:46
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When I was like 15 (christ, 2007 was THAT long ago?) I went to this multimedia production nerd camp thing, and when our work for the day was done they let us play games, namely stuff like Jedi outcast and starcraft. However, in the most infuriatingly inconsistent ruling to teenage me, they said you couldn't play the multiplayer with guns or singleplayer with guns in JKJO until after an arbitrary time in the evening (8 PM, I think it was). I had to go home before that. Literally cutting dudes in half with lightsabers is totally kosher for some reason but god forbid there's a laser rifle on a screen. 
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Feb 29, 2016 05:04
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Speaking of Nintendo and censorship, there's the whole issue of crossdressing, transexuality, and ambiguous gender that gets totally whitewashed for American release compared to their Japanese counterparts as is the case with Birdo the dinosaur, Vivi the ghost (from Paper Mario), and Gracie the giraffe (from Animal Crossing). It's actually really ambiguous what Vivian is in Japan. Beldam says she's a man as an insult, but that could either be an actual thing or just insulting her looks (as she does more directly in translations). All later mentions of it, which are few, are in-universe as Goombella's notes and observations. Goombella's kind of a ditz though, so it could also be that she's just taking the insult as a statement of fact, and either way she's clearly confused by it. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 05:23 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 05:20
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Speaking of Nintendo and censorship, there's the whole issue of crossdressing, transexuality, and ambiguous gender that gets totally whitewashed for American release compared to their Japanese counterparts as is the case with Birdo the dinosaur, Vivi the ghost (from Paper Mario), and Gracie the giraffe (from Animal Crossing). Saharah from Animal Crossing also got changed from being male in the Japanese version to female in the English version because...guys don't have long eyelashes?
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Feb 29, 2016 05:29
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Nuclear Pogostick posted:When I was like 15 (christ, 2007 was THAT long ago?) I went to this multimedia production nerd camp thing, and when our work for the day was done they let us play games, namely stuff like Jedi outcast and starcraft. However, in the most infuriatingly inconsistent ruling to teenage me, they said you couldn't play the multiplayer with guns or singleplayer with guns in JKJO until after an arbitrary time in the evening (8 PM, I think it was). I had to go home before that. Literally cutting dudes in half with lightsabers is totally kosher for some reason but god forbid there's a laser rifle on a screen. I can at least see the logic. Guns are more widespread in the US but a lot of people don't have access to swords. That makes guns way more imitable than lightsabers.
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Feb 29, 2016 06:49
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PeaceDiner posted:Saharah from Animal Crossing also got changed from being male in the Japanese version to female in the English version because...guys don't have long eyelashes? It's interesting how Animal Crossing changed all their gender-bending characters for Western releases, but in New Leaf you can wear feminine clothing, accessories, dresses, and even get feminine hair styles on male characters. Nintendo should be more like Disney and recognize that a low-key alliance is in order. Disney doesn't organize but has always been very supportive of "gay day" at their parks, and because of the campy quality of everything the company does, gay people who happen to appreciate camp will throw money at Disney. Nintendo is similarly campy, and they could gain a lot from being open about it instead of sticking to their "family-friendly" fairly conservative image.
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Feb 29, 2016 09:33
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DudeGoofyGuy posted:It's interesting how Animal Crossing changed all their gender-bending characters for Western releases, but in New Leaf you can wear feminine clothing, accessories, dresses, and even get feminine hair styles on male characters. Nintendo should be more like Disney and recognize that a low-key alliance is in order. Disney doesn't organize but has always been very supportive of "gay day" at their parks, and because of the campy quality of everything the company does, gay people who happen to appreciate camp will throw money at Disney. Nintendo is similarly campy, and they could gain a lot from being open about it instead of sticking to their "family-friendly" fairly conservative image. It's japan: they don't have a great grasp on trans or gay issues, and a lot of the gender-bender stuff that got taken out of games when they come to the states were because they're offensive or fetishistic
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Feb 29, 2016 09:40
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I asked some of my anime friends about this, and they say yaoi is generally targeted at girls, and yuri at grown-rear end men. The reader base for yuri specific manga like Yuri Hime is like 75% woman and a lot of the higher profile authors like Akiko Morishima and Takemiya Jin are lesbians. Yaoi is main written for women but there is also bara (admittedly mostly porn) and gecomi (gay comics) aimed at gay men.
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Feb 29, 2016 14:10
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Aesop Poprock posted:It's japan: they don't have a great grasp on trans or gay issues, and a lot of the gender-bender stuff that got taken out of games when they come to the states were because they're offensive or fetishistic Poison making the jump from Japan to western markets was entertaining.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:16
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Lord Lambeth posted:Poison making the jump from Japan to western markets was entertaining. The 80s hair metal group came from Japan?
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Feb 29, 2016 16:26
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A character in Final Fight.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:27
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Johnny Aztec posted:The 80s hair metal group came from Japan? Poison is a character in Final Fight and later Street Fighter. Originally she was female but she was changed to a transsexual because they thought "hitting women was considered rude" in America. They've since gone back and forth since then on whether she's post or pre-op transsexual. Also she is named after the hair metal band, obviously.
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Feb 29, 2016 16:41
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Lord Lambeth posted:Poison is a character in Final Fight and later Street Fighter. Originally she was female but she was changed to a transsexual because they thought "hitting women was considered rude" in America. They've since gone back and forth since then on whether she's post or pre-op transsexual. All the while street fighter does just fine with Cammy, sakura, etc.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:20
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A thing happened in the SHSC Ticket thread that reminded me of a beef I havelarchesdanrew posted:A blocked website came in. odiv posted:Better make sure no college students can get information about Alcoholics Anonymous! Web filters. gently caress them. They are always incredibly, productivity-hamperingly overzealous (though often also ineffectual where it might possibly count), and for what? So a teenage school student who's going to procrastinate anyway can't play flash games except for the site they inevitably missed? So an employee who'll be found out and fired/sternly Talked To either way can't watch porn? On a note more amusing than bitter, one free WiFi network I sometimes use blocks these forums (though not the front page) under "weapons", presumably just because the favicon is a grenade.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:21
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AlphaKretin posted:.... There's an entire subboard about guns. VVV fair point. Blue Footed Booby has a new favorite as of 17:31 on Feb 29, 2016 |
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Feb 29, 2016 17:24
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Blue Footed Booby posted:There's an entire subboard about guns. If the filter can distinguish between forums.somethingawful.com and somethingawful.com, it should be able to between forums.somethingawful.com and forums.something.com/forumid=whatever. Besides, it didn't pick up TCC or Games (not that the latter would have it blocked but it listed every category it was under).
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Feb 29, 2016 17:26
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AlphaKretin posted:A thing happened in the SHSC Ticket thread that reminded me of a beef I have We had to do a small report on the key players of ww2 back in 9th grade. My group got Hitler. Do you know how hard it is to research Hitler on public school internet? drat near impossible
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Feb 29, 2016 17:32
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Len posted:We had to do a small report on the key players of ww2 back in 9th grade. My group got Hitler. Do you know how hard it is to research Hitler on public school internet? drat near impossible You wouldn't want kids learning that nazis exist except in their textbooks and films.
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Feb 29, 2016 17:37
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I like how blocking AA is supposed to be considered helpful. It's not like the filter is blocking AA because of all the potentially not-good things about the organization, it's being blocked because it relates to alcohol. It's not like it's the Binge Drinking Society of America or whatever, it's a site about an often court-mandated group that's supposed to make you stop drinking. That's not even analgous to blocking sex ed sites for being porn, that's like blocking purity ring or abstinence sites 
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Feb 29, 2016 17:38
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It gets larchesdanrew posted:[...] Bolding mine, because wtf.
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Feb 29, 2016 18:45
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Blue Footed Booby posted:All the while street fighter does just fine with Cammy, sakura, etc.
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Feb 29, 2016 18:56
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Blue Footed Booby posted:All the while street fighter does just fine with Cammy, sakura, etc. Final Fight was released in 1989 (ported to the SNES in 1991), a few years before Street Fighter 2 in 1991 (ported to the SNES in 1992). So no Cammy, Sakura, or even Chun Li yet. In Street Fighter 1 in 1987, there were no female enemies or characters. I figure that given Chun Li in Street Fighter 2 is a player character rather than a random enemy, it was probably less worrisome. Honestly, Poison's legs-which-don't-quit-for-days is probably more of a corruption of the youth, but what a corruption!
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Feb 29, 2016 19:44
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My Lovely Horse posted:They did move Mika's rear end out of frame in the newest one. And nerds online lost their loving poo poo over it, too! 
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Feb 29, 2016 19:45
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My university blocks Something Awful (forum and front page) on the grounds of it containing pornography and violence. This extends to the Awful App. It sucks, to be honest, I like having a quick browse from time to time during breaks between lectures but I have to keep swapping between WiFi and cell data.
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Feb 29, 2016 19:59
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Yeah, we use OpenDNS for web filtering at my office and it blocks the SA Forums for weapons because of TFR. Though, as mentioned, why it chooses that over the drug discussions in TCC is anybody's guess. I'm an admin here, so I just added it to the allowed list, but even before I became an admin I was able to get around it by changing my DNS server from automatically assigned to the Google public DNS. Kind of a big "miss" on the part of OpenDNS.
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Feb 29, 2016 20:59
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DrBouvenstein posted:Yeah, we use OpenDNS for web filtering at my office and it blocks the SA Forums for weapons because of TFR. Though, as mentioned, why it chooses that over the drug discussions in TCC is anybody's guess. I wish I could do something like this, but I'd rather not be banned from the network for trying to get around the filters. Still got two more years to go before I can even think about loving around like that.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:34
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PeaceDiner posted:Saharah from Animal Crossing also got changed from being male in the Japanese version to female in the English version because...guys don't have long eyelashes? I had to look this one up, and it's extra stupid because all camels have naturally long eyelashes in real life, it helps keep blowing sand out of their eyes. So of course, all camels should be drawn with eyelashes as a defining feature. But since eyelashes are generally used as a way of distinguishing female from male characters (take the default skin, throw some eyelashes on and viola, lady skin!), it had to be changed I guess. Don't want to confuse impressionable youth, now.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:51
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Lord Lambeth posted:Poison is a character in Final Fight and later Street Fighter. Originally she was female but she was changed to a transsexual because they thought "hitting women was considered rude" in America. They've since gone back and forth since then on whether she's post or pre-op transsexual. Poison's been post-op for quite a while.
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Feb 29, 2016 21:58
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