Mithra6 posted:

I suspect some of the curse elements might be missed by some people, because the filmmakers don't draw your attention to certain things. It's just part of the backdrop of the world in the movie.

WizardVan posted:

eSporks posted:

I don't see how you can think the witches deliberately manipulated the family to recruit thomasin, there is no evidence for it. That may have been the intent of the movie, but it was not demonstrated.
The only time a witch is shown to act with any intent at all is when the baby gets stolen

The way things were portrayed, the family would have outcast thomasin with 0 influence from the witch. A lot of people are looking at the lack of a plot and filling that empty space to make the movie seem as though it wasn't so empty.

Surlaw posted:

Babies are full of Original Sin. That's like the most sin per pound that a monster can possibly find, of course they eat them. It's like McNuggets to woods witches.

COOL CORN posted:

People referring to the dialog as "Old English" is giving the linguist in me a twitch.

Sorry, a Tvvitch.

Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:

if a movie doesn't scare me that doth not mean it's not still a horror movie...

Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:

*yawn* rosemary's baby is like an episode of full house

Snak posted:

And that's totally fine. Predictability doesn't negate horror.

One part that I personally thought was effective was Thomasin scaring the bratty little sister by the stream, saying that she was the witch and if Mercy didn't leave her alone and ever told anyone she would eat her. You can straight-up tell during this scene that this is going to come back to bite her. That's the role of scenes like that in stories. Thomasin is acting out, she is not 100% serious, but she is throwing her weight around, doing a bit of bullying because her buttons are being pushed. It becomes scary, for Thomasin, when during Caleb's apparent possession, when they all now believe that the devil's work is afoot, Mercy tells everyone that Thomasin admitted to being the witch. This puts Thomasin in a horrible position where, because the context has changed, because she is now a woman, and there is all the evidence of witchcraft, that she must either admit that she did say she was a witch and then try to convince them otherwise, or lie in an attempt to save herself. Which is surely a sin.

Then after this, she thinks that while her mother is now poisened against her with grief, her father trusts and loves her. And it is in the comfort of his arms that she realizes that he is reminiscing with her about what their dreams were as a family because he is saying goodbye. And she has lost everything. The horror lies in the utter destruction of Thomasin's life by guilt over sin.

I have been thinking about this story a lot, and it is not sin that damns these people, but their concepts of sin requiring guilt and blame and punishment. William is prideful and dishonest and he feels great shame in this. Katherine is covetous and jealous and likens herself to Job's wife. Caleb is lustful, both towards Thomasin and the witch he sees in the forest, and for this he feels shame. The twins are carefree at first, friends of Black Phillip, but when they realize they will get in trouble for it, they renounce him and are afraid for what they have done. Only Thomasin is steadfast in standing by her choices. She only lies once, in jest, to Mercy, and she admits that she did and she knows why she did. She defends herself and her actions honestly, not moaning about her sin or the sin of others. She accepts responsibility for her actions. She admits her wants and desires. And that is why she is saved.

Senf posted:

Not sure if it's been discussed already, but I just want to say that the Black Phillip song sung by Mercy and Jonas is great and that until now, I didn't know the exact words. From the director:

Black Phillip, Black Phillip
A crown grows out his head,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
To nanny queen is wed.
Jump to the fence post,
Running in the stall.
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of all.

Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of sky and land,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of sea and sand.
We are ye servants,
We are ye men.
Black Phillip eats the lions
From the lions' den.

Mercy and Jonas

smallmouth posted:

Obviously the apple he throws up before dying is representative of the fruit of tree of the knowledge of good and evil--the apple comes up whole, he didn't "eat" it.

Waverhouse posted:

Watched this movie. Acting, photography, and general aesthetic were amazing. Well paced imo, and built and held tension well.


Thematically it seemed really confusing to me. It sort of felt like it was about religion, then it sort of felt like it was about coming of age, then it sort of felt like it was about how female sexuality is bad(?), then everything got really real.


Only fair reading imo: in a truly spooky twist the movie pushes LaVeyan Satanism. The father, mother, and son all show signs of the 9 Satanic sins and are therefore punished. The father is punished for his pious pretentiousness with isolation. The mother is punished for her solipsistic projection with images of rotten fertility. The boy, having accepted Satan (indulging in the sin of pleasure) is redeemed. His rapture is his embrace of The Adversary; the apple-vomit is his rejection of the 'knowledge' of christianity. The father and mother, blind to the last, are killed. We do not hear of what happens to the twins, as LaVeyan Satanism preaches that no harm can come to children (so that they can sing their creepy songs presumably). Thomasin, seeing the self-deceit inherent in religion, chooses Satanism and to 'live deliciously,' a reference to Satanisms focus on epicureanism. In the final sequence she feels the fear of someone leaving all that they know and the ecstasy of someone who as a rich life ahead of them.





I don't like how militant atheist that reading feels but I think it's a bit more interesting than lol ergot poisoning or surprise: turns out the devil is real!

Trumps Baby Hands posted:

Black Phillip, Black Phillip
A crown grows out his head,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
To nanny queen is wed.
Jump to the fence post,
Running in the stall.
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of all.

Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of sky and land,
Black Phillip, Black Phillip
King of sea and sand.
We are ye servants,
We are ye men.
Black Phillip eats the lions
From the lions' den.

Henchman of Santa posted:

I watched this last night. I didn't love it but I thought it was cool and I would definitely recommend it to other people like me who are too wimpy for many horror movies, because it's mostly about atmosphere and the couple of jump scare type moments are massively telegraphed SPOOKY REVEALs. Really beautifully shot and great music, which people haven't talked about much in this thread (though I have a few pages left to read). I did need subtitles though, between the dialect and the quietness of their voices (especially when the kids are listening through the wall when they're supposed to be asleep).

I also could not stop thinking of parallels to The Shining. Besides the obvious seductress turning out to be an evil hag scene, you've got a family living in isolation driven mad by supernatural forces, repeated use of an axe, creepy twins, abnormal communication, etc. I'm probably missing some things. Maybe those are just horror tropes and I'm not that well versed.