Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Remulak posted:

I keep thinking that there is room for a 'delivery' app that simply pays the delivery person whatever the app charges and pays the restaurant retail. Cutting the unicorn middleman out would save a fortune.
Same with 'car sharing'.

uber is currently burning money to poorly subsidize drivers, so they can outcompete everyone else

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010



A 25% cut is pretty brutal, most restaurants will struggle to break even after expenses. The norm in my country is somewhere between 10 and 15%.

E: the scam here is that businesses are obligated to maintain some sort of delivery service, even before the covid, just to stay abreast of the competitors. So online delivery services can rip them off, especially if they donít undercut each other.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Oct 23, 2020

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Remulak posted:

I keep thinking that there is room for a 'delivery' app that simply pays the delivery person whatever the app charges and pays the restaurant retail. Cutting the unicorn middleman out would save a fortune.
Same with 'car sharing'.

That's called ordering over the phone and then tipping the driver.

Thanatosian
Apr 16, 2013

Angrier, Bitterer Man


Grimey Drawer

Volmarias posted:

That's called ordering over the phone and then tipping the driver.
Except not every place has the volume to be able to keep a full-time delivery driver on staff. It would be nice if there were a service for shared delivery drivers that wasn't quite so rapacious.

TheParadigm
Dec 10, 2009



That's not actually a bad idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtlw_h-3e7k I saw this a while ago, and the idea is pretty interesting. Mini kitchens in the same area just for to-go food stuffs.

I think there's good potential for businesses to split delivery staff the same way.

'd actually sort of love to be able to order of like 2-3 different menus and get it in one package because it all came from the same place.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Itís crazy the difference in price you can pay for the same food between two services too. Even with a Postmates coupon in place, the exact same meal was more than $20 than if I ordered on UberEats for one place I checked.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010


TheParadigm posted:

That's not actually a bad idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtlw_h-3e7k I saw this a while ago, and the idea is pretty interesting. Mini kitchens in the same area just for to-go food stuffs.

I think there's good potential for businesses to split delivery staff the same way.

'd actually sort of love to be able to order of like 2-3 different menus and get it in one package because it all came from the same place.

Virtual, or "ghost," restaurants aren't new. These sort of places already exist but they mostly fly under the radar. Door Dash has had it's own shared kitchen in the bay area for a while now: Chick-fil-A has been renting space there for about a year now.

Some restaurants even operate their own virtual restaurant out of their kitchen. Chuck E Cheese calls itself Pasqually's Pizza on delivery apps. It's not the same pizza they sell in the restaurant. It's Just Wings is Chili's. https://www.businessinsider.com/virtual-brands-owned-by-chain-restaurants-pasquallys-just-wings-2020-8

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



So I've been looking to move. Check out this improbably cheap A-Frame house. I know where this is, driven past it many times. Look at the pictures. Look at the name of the renting agency. See the "avoid scams" bit towards the top of the page.

Here's another listing for a rental right next door. Same price, too.

Now, both these properties and many more are listed on multiple websites with the same contact information. There's some really obvious ones when you sift through their own website. Travel trailers in mobile home parks kinda thing.

Let's give them a call, shall we? No answer, immediate call back. I tell him what I'm interested in and he says he'll send information via text to start an application process. I'll say no names:



Starts out with a deal!

I realize the Better Business Bureau is very suspect, but here is their BBB complaints page for the last iteration of the renting agency which bleeds into their current business.

Feel free to scroll through that. Straight slum lords. Pocketing money for applications where they never bother to run a credit check, broken houses that never get fixed, extortion through deposits, hostile responses, threats, and offering refunds as hush money.

Reading through it I think these are vulnerable people complaining the only way they can think of. God knows what goes on with people that can't or won't complain. Even the initial terms are poo poo. No pet deposit, no restriction on size or breed of dog sounds good until you realize the company doesn't care and they'll just try to charge you for damages when you get kicked out or abandon the lease (and you will).

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X


bamhand posted:

Are they just counting on people to be too lazy to destroy them with credit card disputes?

Yep.

Sydin posted:

I asked the head manager at a place I used to frequent often before COVID what Doordash takes from them, and he told me that it's apparently something you bargain with them. Doordash originally came at them demanding a 25% cut but they were able to negotiate it down to 18%. Note that this is a well liked and frequented business that has three locations in town and is in the process of opening a fourth up north. So my guess is that if you're a small mom and pop then gently caress you either you eat 25% or they walk, if you're reasonably successful you can hover around ~20%, and I'd imagine national chains are even lower then that.

So, Expedia for restaurants.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



Speaking of Uber, the handful of times I ordered from Uber Eats it says "Bob is arriving on a bicycle", but then the guy shows up in a car or on a moped or whatever. Obviously as the consumer I don't really care as long as I get my food, but I'm curious if Uber has some greenwashing incentive going on and people are just gaming it?

Inceltown
Aug 6, 2019



Collateral Damage posted:

Speaking of Uber, the handful of times I ordered from Uber Eats it says "Bob is arriving on a bicycle", but then the guy shows up in a car or on a moped or whatever. Obviously as the consumer I don't really care as long as I get my food, but I'm curious if Uber has some greenwashing incentive going on and people are just gaming it?

Uber gives job priority to cyclists. This creates a huge incentive to lie about the fact you're using a car.

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


Inceltown posted:

Uber gives job priority to cyclists. This creates a huge incentive to lie about the fact you're using a car.

With someone as anal about using metadata as Uber, wouldn't they monitor drivers GPS and if they went above certains speeds penalize them for lying?

Inceltown
Aug 6, 2019



SEKCobra posted:

With someone as anal about using metadata as Uber, wouldn't they monitor drivers GPS and if they went above certains speeds penalize them for lying?

Uber probably doesn't give a poo poo as long as they can deny any wrong-doing when something fails. My current theory is that someone was making noise about drivers double parking to pick up orders so much that they were getting heat for it so changed things.

It's possible Uber blacklist them or something, I have no insight into how this actually works, just happened to remember reading an article a while ago about how Uber was loving over Uber Eats drivers here by giving people on two wheels the preference.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012



SEKCobra posted:

With someone as anal about using metadata as Uber, wouldn't they monitor drivers GPS and if they went above certains speeds penalize them for lying?

There are a lot of cities where you can go faster by bike than by car if thereís any traffic.

Spazzle
Jul 5, 2003




I thought people chose the bike option so they don't get stuck with some dumb order where they have to drive 30 miles for a $5 payout.

SEKCobra
Feb 28, 2011


AlbieQuirky posted:

There are a lot of cities where you can go faster by bike than by car if there’s any traffic.

Yeah OK that's fair, I forgot that the US uses gridlock as a driving style.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





There's a huge amount of tactics used by gig workers to game the system and get more orders, and AFAIK most of the companies don't care as long as the food/groceries/people/etc get to where they're supposed to go and they get their money with minimal complaints. There was a story from a couple months ago where people doing Whole Foods deliveries were buying additional burner phones linked to their main phone and hanging them in trees near the store, so that they could pick up multiple orders at once and do them all in bulk for something actually approaching pay you could eat with. If you didn't do this then you'd be lucky to get an order an hour, at which point you're at the mercy of the order size and the person tipping (some of which all these gig companies still steal even after there was a big public outcry over it and they promised they'd stop) to even break even doing the job.

This is also a factor of there just being a huge glut of out of work or underemployed people right now who are trying to supplement their income, and even with shelter in place there just aren't enough orders to go around.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


My SO just donated 100Ä to some charity via FB using debit straight to our family account.

Found out about just now when I found an unknown transaction while going over the account transactions. I am now super paranoid that she has used her debit card, to our account where we pool our money. I've heard of people getting debited via FB and I bet they did the misstake of exposing their card info via facebook somehow. I have told her I want her to cancel the card to the account and get a new one and never ever use facebook for anything money related, if she wants to donate money to something get their IBAN/BIC number for direkt bank transfer or use paypal.

Am I overreacting? I don't think I am. I absolutely don't trust facebook to handle our money or having our biggest account info exposed via a debit card. I mean gently caress if she'd used the credit card then you'd have some buyer protection against possible scams but exposing the debit card linked to the account.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Oct 30, 2020

Slash
Apr 7, 2011



Pretty sure you're overreacting. People use their debit cards to pay for stuff online all the time. Also(certainly in the UK) if there are any unauthorised transactions you can just phone your bank and report the fraud.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



His Divine Shadow posted:

Am I overreacting? I don't think I am. I absolutely don't trust facebook to handle our money or having our biggest account info exposed via a debit card. I mean gently caress if she'd used the credit card then you'd have some buyer protection against possible scams but exposing the debit card linked to the account.
Don't have a debit card attached to an account where you store lots of money. Make a separate account for the card and transfer money into that account as needed.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



Sydin posted:

There's a huge amount of tactics used by gig workers to game the system and get more orders
The proliferation of gig jobs is a way for companies to game worker protections, so I'm perfectly fine with workers gaming the gig job systems.

HerStuddMuffin
Aug 10, 2014

YOSPOS


Itís not so simple. When companies game the system, they screw over the workers. When the workers game the system, they screw over other workers.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003





That's the way most of these hosed up incentive schemes are designed, to encourage the workers to gently caress each other over so the companies don't have to get their hands dirty.

RenegadeStyle1
Jun 7, 2005

Baby Come Back

His Divine Shadow posted:

My SO just donated 100€ to some charity via FB using debit straight to our family account.

You are way overreacting. People buy poo poo on FB all the time. It's not any more unsecure than any other online retailer or website.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For That you Get the Head...

The Tail...

The Whole Damned Thing

Sydin posted:

There was a story from a couple months ago where people doing Whole Foods deliveries were buying additional burner phones linked to their main phone and hanging them in trees near the store, so that they could pick up multiple orders at once and do them all in bulk for something actually approaching pay you could eat with.

Maybe a dumb question but why do they have to hang the burner phones in trees?

bamhand
Apr 15, 2010


So they show up close to the location and get priority on the assignment.

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!





https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-01/amazon-drivers-are-hanging-smartphones-in-trees-to-get-more-work

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

BiggerBoat posted:

Maybe a dumb question but why do they have to hang the burner phones in trees?

The only thing retail won't gently caress around with is Christmas, as long as the phone looks ornamental no one will touch it.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another rainy day commute





Collateral Damage posted:

The proliferation of gig jobs is a way for companies to game worker protections, so I'm perfectly fine with workers gaming the gig job systems.

:same: Sorry if it came off like I was giving them poo poo, if anything it's loving sad that they have to jump through so many hoops just for the system to pay them something approaching a workable wage.

BiggerBoat posted:

Maybe a dumb question but why do they have to hang the burner phones in trees?

So that it looks like they are close to the pickup location and idle. You hang a bunch of phones in trees, go do an order, come back and pick up all the phones and hope you have multiple orders, do all of those in bulk, rinse repeat.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Sydin posted:

:same: Sorry if it came off like I was giving them poo poo, if anything it's loving sad that they have to jump through so many hoops just for the system to pay them something approaching a workable wage.


So that it looks like they are close to the pickup location and idle. You hang a bunch of phones in trees, go do an order, come back and pick up all the phones and hope you have multiple orders, do all of those in bulk, rinse repeat.

Gives me the same vibes as multibox farming in MMOs. gently caress.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

CommonShore posted:

Gives me the same vibes as multibox farming in MMOs. gently caress.

Welcome to capitalism, where we reinvent actual jobs in the worst way possible because Money.

Bioshuffle
Feb 10, 2011

No good deed goes unpunished



What's the deal with those door to door electric provider services? It's got to be done kind of scam, right?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

I'm sure I'll think of something.

Bioshuffle posted:

What's the deal with those door to door electric provider services? It's got to be done kind of scam, right?

It's legit insofar as it's an actual company providing (or reselling) electrical power, but some of the door to door sales people are borderline or outright fraudulent with signing people up without their consent. Do Never bring them a copy of your bill where they can see (and subsequently use) the account number.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

Volmarias posted:

It's legit insofar as it's an actual company providing (or reselling) electrical power, but some of the door to door sales people are borderline or outright fraudulent with signing people up without their consent. Do Never bring them a copy of your bill where they can see (and subsequently use) the account number.

Echoing this. I've been signed up without my consent and had a guy try and push a contract on me without the terms and conditions or the actual contract. Fortunately, the actual companies seem to realise there are scummy salesmen and can easily undo everything. Same with salesmen who offer to take over your mobile phone contract and make your bills lower.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Bioshuffle posted:

What's the deal with those door to door electric provider services? It's got to be done kind of scam, right?

Virtually all the time they are middlemen buying muni power and selling it at a markup

Nighthand
Nov 4, 2009

what horror the gas



I get the natural gas version of that scam a couple of times a year. They're middleman resellers yeah, but some of them layer on since obfuscation. They have a cost balancer that makes your individual bills look smaller (because they spread your costs out throughout the year) as you approach winter and hope you don't realize it'll make your summer bills much higher. The total you pay each year ends up higher overall.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010


Bioshuffle posted:

What's the deal with those door to door electric provider services? It's got to be done kind of scam, right?

Ya know about MVNO, the Mobile Virtual Network Operators? The folks that sell substandard access to AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon or Sprint? Kinda like that, but for power. Like the "Boost Mobile" of electricity. They resell something you can get directly. The electric middlemen will almost certainly cost you more, despite what the salesperson at your door says.

Nobody that goes door-to-door promising to save you money is good for you. Not paving/asphalt, not fiber, not shingles, not trees, not power. You get screwed 100% of the time.

Power and fiber "scammer's" are often locals in my area that hire temps that don't even understand they're working a scam. Some of the biggest DSL companies enjoy these people.

The asphalt and tree scammers are summer seasonal professional scammers. They migrate up from the south (don't poo poo where you eat) when it warms up here in the north and station their wives and children to beg in suburban neighborhoods while the men work their scams. Never ever ever ever ever agree to let somebody "refinish your driveway" or "trim/cut down" your trees if they knocked on your door. They'll promise still sorts of things, take your money, and disappear into the ether.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010


Also, be vary vary wary of anybody trying to convince you to put solar on your roof under contract. People get absolutely hosed when they go to sell the house and the problem is going to keep getting worse as more people keep signing up for these "deals."

JacquelineDempsey
Aug 6, 2008


MisterOblivious posted:

The asphalt and tree scammers are summer seasonal professional scammers. They migrate up from the south (don't poo poo where you eat) when it warms up here in the north and station their wives and children to beg in suburban neighborhoods while the men work their scams. Never ever ever ever ever agree to let somebody "refinish your driveway" or "trim/cut down" your trees if they knocked on your door. They'll promise still sorts of things, take your money, and disappear into the ether.

Who would pay someone for landscaping before the job was done? Even if the business is legit, if they did a lovely job then you'd have the hassle of trying to get it fixed or a refund. Only an idiot would prepay a sevice like th ---- oh wait, I'm in the scams thread, where I'm reminded of the fact that suckers are born every minute.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Isn't a common scam to do half the job, so everything's hosed, then demand payment to finish it?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply