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gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


goatsestretchgoals posted:

chip and pin is supposed to fix this but lmao stripe and signature is still a thing because merchant service providers are borderline scam artists themselves and they will not pay to replace machines until the law (or visa/mc) says they have to

source: i worked in the boiler room for a merchant service provider for a couple of dumb months

e: this info is 10y old but the most common reason for not going with our shitbag company was 'costco already does it better'
i imagine that for 99% of small businesses that already have a costco membership, this is correct

OTOH, U.S. cc users don't need to care; U.S. law limits their liability to $50 on cc purchases. Debit cards, however, are governed by a different, and less consumer friendly, law.

As a general matter, the older the payment system is, the more consumer friendly the law is. Checks > cc > debit cards > random phone apps.

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gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


EKDS5k posted:

The scam is your government when they say they're looking out for you. Up here the liability on the consumer end due to fraud is $0 for cc, debit, online banking, cheques, you name it. I've had hundreds of dollars of fraudulent charges reversed with a single phone call to tell them that I wasn't the one who made them.

We're still better than Europe (where, iirc, the customers are liable on cc's if it's a chip/pin purchase).

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


Alhazred posted:

Unless you were acting negligent (like keeping your card and pin code together) you are not liable.

My impression is that euro banks used to presume that it was negligence. But maybe they're no longer doing that now that chip/pin has been broken...

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


ToxicSlurpee posted:

Spammers often spoof the number to look local enough that it could be important. Like was said if you have kids...yeah.

I'm surprised there is no phone equivalent of SPF, DKIM, etc. Seems like we've solved this problem already...

gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


Holyshoot posted:

If they become racist after that then they clearly were racist all along and just looked for a reason.

That doesn't make any sense. The word "become" implies a change in state

And the dictionaries agree:

become verb
be·​come | \bi-ˈkəm,
bē-\
became\ bi-​ˈkām ,
bē-​ \; become; becoming
Definition of become

intransitive verb

1a : to come into existence

b : to come to be become sick They both became teachers.

2 : to undergo change or development The pain was becoming more intense.

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gaj70
Jan 26, 2013


Absurd Alhazred posted:

That's fair, further reading of the responses to that thread made me realize that Federal law is why they are obligated to presume that the check will clear before they actually confirm that it's there. Instead of pushing them to use a system that would actually clear/deny it within that timeframe, because that's evil Big Government or whatever.

To be fair, the laws re checks are very consumer friendly, much more so than modern systems e.g., your liability on a forged check is zero.

FWIW, I don't think anyone is obligated to presume the check will clear. The law just says banks can reverse the transaction if they do it w/i a certain about of time (which works 99.99% of the time). For bigger checks, the depositor's bank will normally hold the funds until that deadline passes, just in case.

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