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TheImmigrant posted:Except immigrants' children who were born in Britain before the 80s, because racism. yes I'm certain that's why the institutionally racist police did not investigate a bunch of foreign born and first-gen when repeatedly asked to. PC gone mad. As already spelled out, anyone who buys the argument that the police ignored it "because racism", with absolutely no evidence for this being brought to light from before it was used as a defence, is a loving moron. The police are racists, and they do what they're told.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:11
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Spangly A posted:yes I'm certain that's why the institutionally racist police did not investigate a bunch of foreign born and first-gen when repeatedly asked to. PC gone mad. The Rotherham report examined not only police investigations, but reported cases of child sexual abuse to several agencies operating in the borough including police, social services, child welfare, local council and an outreach center. They found that in 95% of the suspected cases it was likely that children had been abused or groomed for abuse, and that in the vast majority of those cases the perpetrator was described as "Asian". At least in the case of Rotherham, the evidence is overwhelming that ethnic minorities, specifically Asians (probably Pakistanis), are disproportionately likely to be perpetrators of child sexual abuse in cases that are reported. It does no good to anyone to pretend otherwise.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:31
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Thug Lessons posted:The Rotherham report examined not only police investigations, but reported cases of child sexual abuse to several agencies operating in the borough including police, social services, child welfare, local council and an outreach center. They found that in 95% of the suspected cases it was likely that children had been abused or groomed for abuse, and that in the vast majority of those cases the perpetrator was described as "Asian". At least in the case of Rotherham, the evidence is overwhelming that ethnic minorities, specifically Asians (probably Pakistanis), are disproportionately likely to be perpetrators of child sexual abuse in cases that are reported. It does no good to anyone to pretend otherwise. OK, they're Pakistani. Now what? Literally now what?
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Feb 26, 2016 21:39
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Thug Lessons posted:The Rotherham report examined not only police investigations, but reported cases of child sexual abuse to several agencies operating in the borough including police, social services, child welfare, local council and an outreach center. They found that in 95% of the suspected cases it was likely that children had been abused or groomed for abuse, and that in the vast majority of those cases the perpetrator was described as "Asian". At least in the case of Rotherham, the evidence is overwhelming that ethnic minorities, specifically Asians (probably Pakistanis), are disproportionately likely to be perpetrators of child sexual abuse in cases that are reported. It does no good to anyone to pretend otherwise. that's not actually a response to anything I wrote.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:44
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SedanChair posted:OK, they're Pakistani. Now what? Literally now what? I'll defer to the summary of the report's Section 11, titled "Issue of ethnicity", quote:Issues of ethnicity related to child sexual exploitation have been discussed in other reports, including the Home Affairs Select Committee report, and the report of the Children’s Commissioner. Within the Council, we found no evidence of children’s social care staff being influenced by concerns about the ethnic origins of suspected perpetrators when dealing with individual child protection cases, including CSE. In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged. Additionally, I agree with this excerpt from Section 14, "Recommendations", 
Thug Lessons fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 26, 2016 |
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Feb 26, 2016 21:47
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Spangly A posted:that's not actually a response to anything I wrote. Apologies then, I must have misinterpreted you.
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Feb 26, 2016 21:48
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"The issue of race should be tackled": when your dog whistle is also a slide whistle
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Feb 26, 2016 22:02
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I'm sure the pedophiles are happy that you're here to cover for them, Sedanchair. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2016 22:28
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-Troika- posted:I'm sure the pedophiles are happy that you're here to cover for them, Sedanchair. The pedophiles are the cops who were paid in sex to not investigate. This is the general approach around the world.
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Feb 26, 2016 22:30
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Thug Lessons posted:At least in the case of Rotherham, the evidence is overwhelming that ethnic minorities, specifically Asians (probably Pakistanis), are disproportionately likely to be perpetrators of child sexual abuse in cases that are reported. It does no good to anyone to pretend otherwise. it's really disingenuous to try to extrapolate from "in the case of the pakistani sex offenders, the majority of the sex offenders were pakistani" all the way up to "pakistanis are sex offenders" like the OP claimed or PC gone mad like the tabloids are screaming it's also disingenous to state "it does nobody any good to ignore the race of the offender" when the race of the offender is not consequential to the crime nor does it truly explain the local government inaction which allowed this abuse to continue. oddly enough demonstrations of corrupt white british culture were not front and center at any point during the BBC pedophilia scandal which is why it's extremely suspicious why people seem to be so focused on race here. why it's eerily like they're trying to demonstrate how negative stereotypes of racial groups are factually true or something equally idiotic
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Feb 26, 2016 22:31
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Popular Thug Drink posted:
frankly I'd like to congratulate the police on diverting this case so well
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Feb 26, 2016 22:34
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Popular Thug Drink posted:it's really disingenuous to try to extrapolate from "in the case of the pakistani sex offenders, the majority of the sex offenders were pakistani" all the way up to "pakistanis are sex offenders" like the OP claimed or PC gone mad like the tabloids are screaming Speaking personally, the reason I bring up race is because the cat is already out of the bag. Whether anyone likes it or not race is already a central issue in this scandal, and the right is having a field day with it while the left and center-left are reeling. Cases like this give them powerful ammunition to stand up there and say, "See? Muslims are criminals, just like we've been telling you", and I want to emphasize the force of those argument and the insufficiency of telling people "Oh don't listen to that guy, he's just an irrational racist". In this case I think that focusing on the deep problems with the police and council response is a good line to take instead, but in the larger picture I feel as though the people that advocate my positions are losing the war of ideas.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:03
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Thug Lessons posted:Speaking personally, the reason I bring up race is because the cat is already out of the bag. Whether anyone likes it or not race is already a central issue in this scandal, and the right is having a field day with it while the left and center-left are reeling. Cases like this give them powerful ammunition to stand up there and say, "See? Muslims are criminals, just like we've been telling you", and I want to emphasize the force of those argument and the insufficiency of telling people "Oh don't listen to that guy, he's just an irrational racist". In this case I think that focusing on the deep problems with the police and council response is a good line to take instead, but in the larger picture I feel as though the people that advocate my positions are losing the war of ideas. They're reeling because like you, they've fallen for the trap the bnp/ukip/daily mail scum have laid. Instead of questioning why the police didn't investigate, you saw a picture of a fat wall-eyed Pakistani man and panicked. "This is it," you said to yourself.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:08
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SedanChair posted:The pedophiles are the cops who were paid in sex to not investigate. This is the general approach around the world.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:09
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SedanChair posted:They're reeling because like you, they've fallen for the trap the bnp/ukip/daily mail scum have laid. Instead of questioning why the police didn't investigate, you saw a picture of a fat wall-eyed Pakistani man and panicked. "This is it," you said to yourself. I didn't do anything of the sort.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:12
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"It's worth looking into" that these men were very, very swarthy. Some had beards, it does no good to pretend as though they didn't.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:14
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Thug Lessons posted:Speaking personally, the reason I bring up race is because the cat is already out of the bag. Whether anyone likes it or not race is already a central issue in this scandal, and the right is having a field day with it while the left and center-left are reeling. Cases like this give them powerful ammunition to stand up there and say, "See? Muslims are criminals, just like we've been telling you", and I want to emphasize the force of those argument and the insufficiency of telling people "Oh don't listen to that guy, he's just an irrational racist". In this case I think that focusing on the deep problems with the police and council response is a good line to take instead, but in the larger picture I feel as though the people that advocate my positions are losing the war of ideas. so you're saying that leftists need to incorporate the irrational racist panic of people who don't trust immigrants lest those just dismiss leftists as overly politically correct no thanks, given that i'm not addressing a hypothetical british hoi polloi in my mind's eye but rather mocking a crudely framed whine thread on the something awful forums. i dont think appeals to the necessity of public debate are at all applicable on here, a pseudononymous internet thread where i make fun of people who are trying to equate skin tone with sexual deviancy
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Feb 26, 2016 23:18
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SedanChair posted:"It's worth looking into" that these men were very, very swarthy. Some had beards, it does no good to pretend as though they didn't. No, it's worth looking into serial child abuse, even if the alleged perpetrators have Magnificent Headgear.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:22
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you're saying that leftists need to incorporate the irrational racist panic of people who don't trust immigrants lest those just dismiss leftists as overly politically correct Not exactly. I'm saying that leftists need to take the current panicked mood into account and recognize that the right is making real political gains, in part because their response is insufficient. As for the rest you're of course right and I'm not telling you what to do.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:23
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Who was it who said that the problem with liberals is that, deep down, they believe that the critiques of the right are correct? This is that in a nutshell.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:24
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TheImmigrant posted:No, it's worth looking into serial child abuse, even if the alleged perpetrators have Magnificent Headgear. Do you believe, racist, that white perpetrators face more scrutiny than Muslims? Because it seems to me like none of the perpetrators of any race generally face scrutiny, and in this case a little more traction was gained because of racism. Also I did not see any headgear in those photos, racist.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:27
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Thug Lessons posted:Not exactly. I'm saying that leftists need to take the current panicked mood into account and recognize that the right is making real political gains, in part because their response is insufficient. As for the rest you're of course right and I'm not telling you what to do. yeah sorry dude i'm not convinced that we can in any way accurately apply 'the truth is in the middle' to xenophobic racism or clickbaity tabloids which prey on the uneducated and angry
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Feb 26, 2016 23:28
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SedanChair posted:Do you believe, racist, that white perpetrators face more scrutiny than Muslims? Because it seems to me like none of the perpetrators of any race generally face scrutiny, and in this case a little more traction was gained because of racism. Do you believe, pedobear, that weather is racist, because storm clouds are black while cumulus clouds are white? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 26, 2016 23:28
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah sorry dude i'm not convinced that we can in any way accurately apply 'the truth is in the middle' to xenophobic racism or clickbaity tabloids which prey on the uneducated and angry You don't have to. You just have to come up with a response to that which convinces people, even if you hold those people in contempt for even considering that the right might be on to something. Not you specifically but if I'd heard one anywhere I thought was effective I'd be screaming it from the rooftops.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:33
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TheImmigrant posted:Do you believe, pedobear, that weather is racist, because storm clouds are black while cumulus clouds are white? No I believe that you are racist because every time anything is posted about Muslims you say "magnificent headgear." It's creepy.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:35
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TheImmigrant posted:Do you believe, pedobear, that weather is racist, because storm clouds are black while cumulus clouds are white? you are talking about issues of race in order to apply issues of race in the context that this gang of paedophiles, notably almost entirely pakistani, has finally been investigated by the police, while several other gangs of paedophiles, notably rich and white, are not. The defence of "well we didn't want to apply issues of race" absolutely stinks of authority being caught ignoring paedophile gangs and going "oh right they're muslim, we can take them"
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Feb 26, 2016 23:35
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SedanChair posted:No I believe that you are racist because every time anything is posted about Muslims you say "magnificent headgear." It's creepy. Thug Lessons posted:You don't have to. You just have to come up with a response to that which convinces people, even if you hold those people in contempt for even considering that the right might be on to something. Not you specifically but if I'd heard one anywhere I thought was effective I'd be screaming it from the rooftops.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:45
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Tbh, everyone in the UK is probably a paedo, regardless of skin color or religious affiliation.
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Feb 26, 2016 23:59
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SedanChair posted:No I believe that you are racist because every time anything is posted about Muslims you say "magnificent headgear." It's creepy. Pedobear, two things. One, we have not determined Muslims are at issue, and two, even if the alleged perpetrators or police are Muslims, it's not racist to harbor preconceived notions about people like Bible bangers or rightwingers or rightwing Muslims who affirmatively subscribe to a belief system.
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Feb 27, 2016 00:07
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SedanChair posted:"The issue of race should be tackled": when your dog whistle is also a slide whistle I mean regardless of where you stand, this was kind of an issue of race wasn't it? Either they were overlooked because of cop fear over possible PC code violation (or whatever ridiculous argument)or it was overlooked because the cops didn't give a poo poo about brown girls. I mean there's also the idea that the cops were loving some little kid sex and looking the other way which is not far fetched but even that's attached to race in the same way that cop who raped all the black women in Oklahoma were
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Feb 27, 2016 00:44
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Aesop Poprock posted:I mean regardless of where you stand, this was kind of an issue of race wasn't it? Either they were overlooked because of cop fear over possible PC code violation (or whatever ridiculous argument)or it was overlooked because the cops didn't give a poo poo about brown girls. Actually the women victims were white in this case, they were just from poor backgrounds or under the direct care of authorities which didn't do poo poo. Literally all the paedo scandals which keep rolling out from this lovely country shown that state authorities don't care about poor women in general and will do anything to protect themselves from allowing that abuse.
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Feb 27, 2016 00:52
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tbf they also don't care about poor boys either
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Feb 27, 2016 00:53
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Aesop Poprock posted:I mean regardless of where you stand, this was kind of an issue of race wasn't it? Either they were overlooked because of cop fear over possible PC code violation (or whatever ridiculous argument)or it was overlooked because the cops didn't give a poo poo about brown girls. What I've read is that it wasn't so much a matter of police cover-up of sex abuse, but social workers failing their duty to report it.
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Feb 27, 2016 01:16
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New Division posted:Tbh, everyone in the UK is probably a paedo, regardless of skin color or religious affiliation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcU7FaEEzNU&t=67s Unfortunately this is something we have known for a long time.
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Feb 27, 2016 01:27
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TheImmigrant posted:What I've read is that it wasn't so much a matter of police cover-up of sex abuse, but social workers failing their duty to report it. That's not true at all. There were failures at practically every level, including the police who would do things like arrest child sex abuse victims for underage drinking while not arresting their abusers, and basically the only organization in the whole borough who did their job was a youth outreach center called Risky Business.
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Feb 27, 2016 01:32
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Thug Lessons posted:That's not true at all. There were failures at practically every level, including the police who would do things like arrest child sex abuse victims for underage drinking while not arresting their abusers, and basically the only organization in the whole borough who did their job was a youth outreach center called Risky Business. That's one of the more questionable names for a youth outreach center I've heard, but good for them
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Feb 27, 2016 02:26
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The thing is that official and complete indifference to vulnerable young girls and women in the UK is rampant. While things are better than in the 1980s, when many children's homes were run by peadophiles, the Home Office (the government department in charge of law enforcement) gave a funding grant to the Peadophile Information Exchange, the civil servant in charge of child protection was a peadophile and when he visited children's homes would be provided with a child and a lockable room, Jimmy Savile was put in charge of Broad Moor by the Tory government, and everyone up to and including the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher was aware of this and covered it up. Throw in prominent politicians, judges, members of the establishment, senior figures in the secret police including allegedly the head of MI6 being peadophiles and you have a recipe for embedding a culture of indifference to the activities of child molesters. However in cases like this 'being brown so we can't investigate because it would be racist' being put about it for some reason more believable than local police and politicians liked to rape kids and consort with criminals, and were bribed with money or sex with children to prevent investigations, even though that is literally the historical model for this. No one cares about children being looked after by local authorities. That's why they are there. And no one is willing to fight the political battles to get it properly funded. Many local authorities are looking at privatising caring for these children, because nothing says caring for children better than lowest bidder contracts from companies who have all been accused of abusing people in their care in the past.
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Mar 3, 2016 01:23
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Guavanaut posted:Occam's Razor on whether it's more likely that a British police force, of all organizations, was too concerned about appearing politically correct or whether they were on the take for money or teen sex and that cash cow finally ran away when public awareness ramped up. The same British police force that can attack a man in the street infront of hundreds of people, unprovoked, cause his death, and still get to keep their jobs? It was probably PC gone mad.
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Mar 12, 2016 19:31
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Thug Lessons posted:Speaking personally, the reason I bring up race is because the cat is already out of the bag. Whether anyone likes it or not race is already a central issue in this scandal, and the right is having a field day with it while the left and center-left are reeling. Cases like this give them powerful ammunition to stand up there and say, "See? Muslims are criminals, just like we've been telling you", and I want to emphasize the force of those argument and the insufficiency of telling people "Oh don't listen to that guy, he's just an irrational racist". In this case I think that focusing on the deep problems with the police and council response is a good line to take instead, but in the larger picture I feel as though the people that advocate my positions are losing the war of ideas. Rotherham and Cologne showed that when things get intersectional on the left, anti-racism is the overriding philosophy and other values such as feminism or public debate will have to give way to either silence or diversion via accusations of racism, finely illustrated below. SedanChair posted:They're reeling because like you, they've fallen for the trap the bnp/ukip/daily mail scum have laid. Instead of questioning why the police didn't investigate, you saw a picture of a fat wall-eyed Pakistani man and panicked. "This is it," you said to yourself.
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Mar 12, 2016 19:49
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Rotherham and Cologne showed that when things get intersectional on the left, anti-racism is the overriding philosophy and other values such as feminism or public debate will have to give way to either silence or diversion via accusations of racism, finely illustrated below. I'm proud you see me as the enemy.
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Mar 12, 2016 19:52
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