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Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


It's really sad you didn't work out the purpose of the guys with gunpowder, they're technically speaking friendly in that what you're supposed to do is make them walk off edges and blow up your enemies for you. In practice it's very awkward. Also I like that you worked out what's going on with the smelter wedges.

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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

tiistai posted:

Nietzschean really sounds like a different person lol
This need some sort of Nietzschean inebriation indicator where the scale is Dark Souls NPCs. Like sober is Crestfallen Nietzschean, tipsy but still crushing dudes with a greatsword is Black Iron Nietzschean, mashing all of the humanities into his face is Marvellous Nietzschean, and so on. And at the far end of the scale is Xanthous Nietzschean. We don't go to Xanthous.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
The thing with each of the DLC campaigns is that they straight-up give you +7 and +8 weapons for free, and if you know about it it can save you time and materials upgrading. Caestus are kind of like a strength-based dexterity weapon, in that you're ideally dual wielding them and doing a lot of attacks really quickly. They cost basically no stamina per swing, do strike damage, which is broken in half with how many enemies have armour in this game, and have really good scaling. The tradeoff is that the range is abysmal, obviously.

Using the stone ring with big, slow strength weapons isn't really that helpful. Those weapons are supposed to be capable of staggering normal enemies in a single hit anyway. The issue with them ends up coming with enemies like the flame sword wraiths and a few others around the place, that have poise out the wazoo and can only just be staggered if you empty your entire stamina bar. This is why I like to say that strength weapons are the biggest lie of the Souls series. Eventually you come across an enemy that just does not care for your strongman attacks, powers through them, and ends you because you are used to either overpowering and staggering enemies, or trading blows and killing them in one hit. Though the fact that you're here about ten hours and thirty levels earlier than you probably should be won't make it any easier.

Anyway, you shouldn't worry about whether slowly going through an area is entertaining for people watching. That's what editing is for, supposedly. But also, it's Dark Souls, and Let's Play; people will watch anything and everything, and every failed attempt is a shared experience of the players and the viewers in sadism and catharsis. We like to watch things go wrong, knowing that eventually they'll go right.

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.

frozentreasure posted:


Anyway, you shouldn't worry about whether slowly going through an area is entertaining for people watching. That's what editing is for, supposedly. But also, it's Dark Souls, and Let's Play; people will watch anything and everything, and every failed attempt is a shared experience of the players and the viewers in sadism and catharsis. We like to watch things go wrong, knowing that eventually they'll go right.

Sure, but Episode 79a, b, c, d, 80, and probably 81 are all nothing but fume knight. Might have to come back to that.

Seriously, gently caress Fume Knight. He's as bad as Kalameet.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Fume Knight is very much a Souls Boss in that he's really hard on a first encounter when you have no clue of his moveset, but easier once you analyze what's going on. I used to hate fighting him back when I was inexperienced (and relying on shields), but now I find him comparatively straightforward. If you're still stuck, just take some time to track every attack or combo he does, and then to consider how to deal with them.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
The last time I fought him I was a naked swordsman rolling through everything. If I recall correctly, the only really hard thing to deal with was that one slow swing after he powers up, since it counters the instinctual roll at the sight of an attack. Though I say that; it still took me a few hours to kill him, since I'm pretty sure every hit after the power-up would one-shot me.

Fume Knight is like the one fight they made that reaches the level of Artorias, in a game that is 60% imitations of Artorias boss fights. Similarly, if you don't have the gear and the stats, you'll have a harder time than usual. My first time fighting Artorias came right on the back of Anor Londo, since that was the earliest point I had access to the DLC and I was told how to get to it. So I fought him with a +10 Uchigatana and did like 100 damage per strong hit. So my first impressions of Artorias were that it wasn't a fun or good fight. It's all relative.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Ask DrTempest about the joys of Dark Souls 1 DLC with only +10 weapons

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.
Episode 71: Oh, THIS Place: Part 2 and Episode 72: If It's Stupid and It Works... now up!

This area between bonfires was especially frustrating. Lots of enemies that hurt a lot.

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:
Maldron the Assassin is one of my favorite NPCs in this game. Hides to backstab you on arrival, goes for maximum range + defense, can out-lance a Badger, and will run like a coward to hide in Spooky Enemy Zone to heal up and wait for you.

:rip: Maldron, victim of his own cheese

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Archenteron posted:

:rip: Maldron, victim of his own cheese
A perfect moment for yelling "HOISTED!" aloud

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.
Episode 73: Playing With Fire and Episode 74: Start Me Up now up!

Shifty gimbal
Dec 28, 2008

Hey you... I got something to tell ya
Biscuit Hider
The majestic greatsword's description saying that all of its previous owners were left-handed was a hint.
Also, doesn't it look familiar?

Sum Gai
Mar 23, 2013

Gimbal lock posted:

The majestic greatsword's description saying that all of its previous owners were left-handed was a hint.
Also, doesn't it look familiar?

Worth noting that the original held it in their right hand, though.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Sum Gai posted:

Worth noting that the original held it in their right hand, though.

To be fair the other one was broken and it was either hold his weapon or his shield and I figure he decided weapon was better. Then again it might just be that the left hand was his shield hand and he tried to block something he shouldn't have and broke his arm.

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica
"It's a shame there's not some way to, like, corral those things around"

I suggest you actually try doing that before saying it can't be done :v:

Nice how you realized that maybe you shouldn't set the deplorable oil guys on fire yet went back to doing it anyway. I don't know the exact mechanics but I believe setting them on fire does nothing but make them more dangerous, they explode regardless.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






While the Scorchers are more dangerous when set on fire, they're nonetheless easier to provoke into self-detonation in such a state. In fact, if they're not on fire they can actually fake you out. Plus when you were wondering if something bad was going to happen upon removing the Scorching Iron Scepter...well, it already did. The Scorchers in the same room will go berserk on your rear end either if you provoke them (as seen in the video) or if you draw out the scepter while they're still not on fire (in which case they self-immolate and try to rush you). Generally my preferred method of dealing with that room is to have fun with Firestorm or some similar AoE pyromancy.

Gimbal lock posted:

The majestic greatsword's description saying that all of its previous owners were left-handed was a hint.
Also, doesn't it look familiar?
In particular, try out the 2HR2 while left-handing the sword. It's not for nothing that the Majestic Greatsword is one of my favorite weapons in the game.

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:
Fire damage is doing surprisingly well for an area populated by enemies that are all iron, ashy, burning, or combinations of the three

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.
Episode 75: Cue Benny Hill Music and Episode 76: Wait For It... now up!


Brume Tower was easily the most difficult place we've encountered thus far.

And it only gets better.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
It might just be me watching everything at 2x speed, but I feel like your movement and exploration style is increasingly resembling the barely-controlled careening characteristic of a certain game without fall damage. Except this isn't that game, so there's a constant feeling of "oh my god what are you doing"

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
That illusory wall message could have been worded better. Like, it could have used the word "below" instead of the word "ahead".

But at least the hollow skin lets you see the message at the foot of the elevator that tells you to search your surroundings. Good looking out, From.

The yellow chest explosion also meant something else, but it doesn't really matter since you guys handled all of the ashen idols about as well as a first-time player could be expected to.

And you finally discovered what Lingering Flame does! It's basically the best pyromancy for when you don't want to deal with something. Even a particular group of enemies in DLC1 that had enormous amounts of health I just pillar kited while throwing Lingering Flames out and eating one of the hundred spell restore items the game gives you for some reason and it all worked out.

Oh, and you should check out that simpleton's ring. It does something different than you're expecting, even though your one is much more logical and fitting with conventions of the game.

Shifty gimbal
Dec 28, 2008

Hey you... I got something to tell ya
Biscuit Hider

DrTempest posted:

Brume Tower was easily the most difficult place we've encountered thus far.

And it only gets better.

You guys are pretty close to end-game geared and leveled. Brume tower giving you trouble isn't too surprising because it's the first area you've crossed that actually expects you to show up end-game geared and leveled. Welcome! :unsmigghh:

On the other hand, getting thru Brume tower means the non-dlc main path of the game will be child's play.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
You never go full Xanthous

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:

Nietzschean posted:

You never go full Xanthous

:wrong:

Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, it's forgivable to go full Xanthous.

Archenteron fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Nov 16, 2016

Shifty gimbal
Dec 28, 2008

Hey you... I got something to tell ya
Biscuit Hider
I hope y'all end up eventually figuring out the secret of that armor hanging out in the middle of that room, at the end of the last video.

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.
Episode 77: Descension and Episode 78: And So It Begins...

Enjoy. At least one of us will!

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Oh look you ended up doing exactly what I did with the smelter wedges, thankfully it's entirely possible to fight the Fume Knight without killing the last Idol. Also your search for a wedge will probably be fruitless because I don't think you can actually access it without progressing the main plot a bit further.

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica
I think Fume Knight is a pretty good example of an enemy where you often want to dodge at his weapon instead of away from it. With swords that huge you're easily going to get caught up in their hitboxes so just dodge at him and hello now you're behind him and get a free hit or time to heal. Pretty much the same as with the Pursuer.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

tiistai posted:

I think Fume Knight is a pretty good example of an enemy where you often want to dodge at his weapon instead of away from it. With swords that huge you're easily going to get caught up in their hitboxes so just dodge at him and hello now you're behind him and get a free hit or time to heal. Pretty much the same as with the Pursuer.

:allears: :c00lbert: :smuggo:

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
Yeah Fume Knight's pretty good. I believe my last ashen idol was the one by the Prowlers, purely because I didn't go that way until after finding all the others. The best one to leave for last is the one in the door that leads to a cliff face guarded by a tall man, since it basically doesn't guard anything significant. A lot of people do leave the first for last, but then they wind up needing to use their first wedge in an area with enemies and don't get an opportunity to understand what they need to do in a relatively safe environment.

DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.
Episode 79: Oh, the Humanity! and Episode 80: The Badger You Knew Is Gone now up!



We also have some extra footage that for the most part, nothing happens but extra attempts at the fume knight. Three exist, and rather than supercut them, I'll just post them when they are played. First one is between 79 and 80.
Fume Knight Deathreel Extravaganza: Part 1

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
Yep. That last effigy. That was full Xanthous.

Shifty gimbal
Dec 28, 2008

Hey you... I got something to tell ya
Biscuit Hider
Man... Y'all need to keep closer tabs on your stamina instead of trying gimmicks.

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica
Well the build seems better to me now, going quality with a raw Santier's seemed like a questionable choice

At this point it should just be a matter of being confident about rolling circles around him

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
You guys are gonna be real pissed when you discover that it costs humanity per Darklurker attempt.

Supposedly Fume has a 93% failure rate, making him literally the hardest boss in the game.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

tiistai posted:

Well the build seems better to me now, going quality with a raw Santier's seemed like a questionable choice

It doesn't seem likely that DrTempest will be getting rid of that Saintier's spear anytime soon, no matter how many large weapons — that will actually benefit from our stats — I throw at him.

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:
Congratulations Badger on graduating from college :toot:. Since there was a lot of magic damage and bow chat between the episodes, want to bring up a thing I vaguely alluded to awhile ago when you were looking at boss weapons: The Dragonrider Bow is one of the few bows with primarily strength scaling instead of dexterity, and it also deals hybrid magic and physical damage.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






frozentreasure posted:

You guys are gonna be real pissed when you discover that it costs humanity per Darklurker attempt.

Supposedly Fume has a 93% failure rate, making him literally the hardest boss in the game.
That data point is a bit old, having been stated back when the Old Iron King DLC was released. Still, I wouldn't disagree with its fundamental tenet, that the Fume Knight is still the hardest boss in the game (excepting one gimmick boss). Funny enough, while DrTempest and Nietzschean decided to try out a greatshield to defeat him this same fight was what convinced me to let go of my shield and to instead dodge everything. All of those hits with the UGS will absolutely destroy your stamina when holding a shield (doesn't matter which, even with the best permanent stability in the game) on NG+ or higher, and even on NG they're still staggering.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
Yeah, Fume is basically impossible to turtle against. The secret is to not roll against every attack; his straight sword swings don't have the range to hit you one after another if you dodge directly into the first one, and the greatsword swings are too slow to catch you, so you can roll once and take a moment to catch your breath, regain stamina, and analyse the next attack, then end up behind him for a solid few hits. You also just need to not get greedy ever; it's a super slow fight.

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

frozentreasure posted:

Yeah, Fume is basically impossible to turtle against. The secret is to not roll against every attack; his straight sword swings don't have the range to hit you one after another if you dodge directly into the first one, and the greatsword swings are too slow to catch you, so you can roll once and take a moment to catch your breath, regain stamina, and analyse the next attack, then end up behind him for a solid few hits. You also just need to not get greedy ever; it's a super slow fight.

:allears: :c00lbert: :smuggo:

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DrTempest
Dec 11, 2011

It's not cute. It's all very serious.

frozentreasure posted:

Yeah, Fume is basically impossible to turtle against. The secret is to not roll against every attack; his straight sword swings don't have the range to hit you one after another if you dodge directly into the first one, and the greatsword swings are too slow to catch you, so you can roll once and take a moment to catch your breath, regain stamina, and analyse the next attack, then end up behind him for a solid few hits. You also just need to not get greedy ever; it's a super slow fight.

This is something that took a while to learn. Certainly not any time soon. We actually broke away from FK for a while and continued on with the rest of the game.

Episode 81:My Everest and Episode 82: Screw It, Back to the Main Game now up!

Also, another FK Deathreel. Upon further inspection, 81 was very much that as well, but this one was just me.

Fume Knight Deathreel Extravaganza: Part 2

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