|
As we all know, crude sketches based on traumatic memories are so reliable that the shape of the knife tip drawn in one can be used as conclusive evidence in a murder trial. I'm just mad because I couldn't figure this out when I played the game.
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 17:24 |
|
|
I hate this testimony so much. I have played through this case at least 6 times, and every single time this one part trips me up. The logical answer here would be to present the knife, since that's the basis for the contradiction, but no, you have to present the autopsy report, and I forget that every time I play this game. CaptianKatsura fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Feb 23, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
No, you have to present the autopsy because the knife as it currently is doesn't present a contradiction. The image has a blunt tip knife, the knife is blunt. If that was how it was when the stabbing occurred then the story is fine and there's no problem. But the autopsy gives us the contradiction: the victim was stabbed and the point broke off. Thus the knife must not have been blunt just before the murder or the knife tip could not have been found in the wound.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 16:10
|
|
|
kw0134 posted:No, you have to present the autopsy because the knife as it currently is doesn't present a contradiction. The image has a blunt tip knife, the knife is blunt. If that was how it was when the stabbing occurred then the story is fine and there's no problem. The contradiction is the broken knife tip, which I consider to have more of a connection to the broken knife than to the autopsy report. It would be pretty easy to make both pieces work, since they point to the same thing, and the series even does that at certain points, but it's weird they don't do it here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 18:50
|
|
|
CaptianKatsura posted:The contradiction is the broken knife tip, which I consider to have more of a connection to the broken knife than to the autopsy report. It would be pretty easy to make both pieces work, since they point to the same thing, and the series even does that at certain points, but it's weird they don't do it here. But that's only a contradiction because we know that there was only one stab wound from the autopsy report. For example, if the victim was stabbed twice the knife could have broken on the first stab and Ema saw the second, which is not a contradiction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
This is not the last time Ace Attorney asks the player to make an extra step in reasoning than most people would.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
They got to figure out some way to use every single piece of evidence at least once.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
The series can be obtuse, but it makes sense to led with the autopsy because it is what tells us about the missing tip. If you go with the knife, in my mind at least, you're saying that there's a discrepancy because the witness saw a man get stabbed with a blunt knife, and here's a blunt knife, to which most observers would say, no poo poo Sherlock.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
Issues like these are why, though I'm very much enjoying reading it in LP form, playing these games would piss me off. I have minimal patience for being punished when developers don't account for alternative solutions: clarify the "correct" choice and/or prune the alts.Night10194 posted:Edgeworth is the best character in a series full of fantastic characters. This update, for instance: I don't expect to be able to differentiate between when Edgeworth holds back or gets screwed over by this bullshit until after this case is over and reread once or twice. paragon1 posted:She was the ghost writer, you could say.  why e: Mors Rattus posted:
Malah fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
I mean... it's possible Marshall had been stabbed previously, and he was chasing Darke on adrenaline and just collapsed without being seriously wounded. Doesn't explain why they did what they did, unless maybe the previous stab came somewhere nobody could see.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:23
|
|
|
Not an error, just vaguely inexplicable. It just happens.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:26
|
|
|
Wouldn't he be leaking out a trail of blood, though, if he was running around with an ultimately fatal stab wound?
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:26
|
|
|
Malah posted:
Simple enough. The camera pans over to look at Ema's reaction as the Judge is talking. It is an odd way to depict it though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
No, she literally is the one saying it. I double checked.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
Glazius posted:I mean... it's possible Marshall had been stabbed previously, and he was chasing Darke on adrenaline and just collapsed without being seriously wounded. Doesn't explain why they did what they did, unless maybe the previous stab came somewhere nobody could see. Even more so when people apparently keep getting murdered. Why does anyone still work there? Mors Rattus posted:Not an error, just vaguely inexplicable. It just happens. Malah fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 03:43
|
|
|
The series gradually paints a picture of Japanifornia that becomes batshit horrifying. The fact that apparently half the police department is involved in a murder as either a victim or murderer is just the tip of the iceberg.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 05:01
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:The series gradually paints a picture of Japanifornia that becomes batshit horrifying. And the other half is Gumshoe/Meekins! I was going to add the Blue Badger to that list but you know that motherfucker has bloodlust in it's heart.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
Malah posted:I don't know if I've said it yet, but the security at this police department is seriously lacking. To be fair, the murders only happened when all the officers were at the award ceremony.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 07:24
|
|
|
That just provides a perfect opportunity to keep police department costs low: "We only award bonuses and raises during awards ceremonies."
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 07:53
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:That just provides a perfect opportunity to keep police department costs low: "We only award bonuses and raises during awards ceremonies." Yeah, even they're cutting down the Prosecutor awards to SHIELDS instead of swords and shields in order to save money. ... Hey wait a minute...
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
Case 5 - Rise From the Ashes Trial (Day 4) - Part 3   : Order! Order! Order! : Are you saying the investigation really was corrupted? : Your Honor... : Please allow me to once again go over the events that took place the day of the murder.    : Neil Marshall questioned Joe Darke along with Damon Gant. : Prosecutor Marshall chased after him... and was killed by Darke. : It is my belief that somewhere in this story...: there is a lie.  : Hmm... : I... : I'm not lying... : The man really was holding up a broken knife! : ... If that's true... then there's no other way around it. : ...! : There must have been another broken knife! : What are the chances of there being two broken knives?: (Another broken knife besides Joe Darke's...)  : (Broken knives don't just grow on trees...): (There's no way there was another one!): Well, Mr. Wright?: Your Honor, I believe... : the witness must be mistaken.: ... I knew it.: You really don't believe me...: ...!Which leaves us where the other answer does.  : (That flash of lightning burned an unforgettable image in her mind... One that's been torturing her ever since!): (There's no way Ema could be mistaken!): If the witness is this adamant about the accuracy of what she saw...: it can't just be explained away by a simple observational error.: Mr. Wright... : In that instant... Ema really did see a broken knife!: I assume then,: that you have some information about this "other" broken knife?: If so, please feel free to enlighten us.: (The murder weapon was already broken prior to the murder... There's only one way!)  : The answer lies in the past... Two years in the past.  : This is a picture of the awards ceremony. : A-AAAAHH!: What is it, Mr. Edgeworth!?: It's the... the broken murder weapon! : Notice the award Prosecutor Marshall is holding. : As we earlier concluded, the knife in the picture was not Joe Darke's knife. That being the case...   : Order! Order! Order!: Neil Marshall was awarded King of Prosecutors that day. As an award, he was given this broken shield and a broken knife.: When he chased after Joe Darke, he pulled out this knife.: Being a prosecutor, he did not carry a pistol. : This broken knife was the only weapon he had in this dangerous situation. : But that... That can't be!: Oh? And why not, Mr. Edgeworth?: Because if the King of Prosecutors award knife was the murder weapon... : then the murderer and the victim would be reversed!: What do you mean? : I mean...  : Oh... : But the prosecutor was the one who actually died!: That's true... (What's going on here?)  : It seems: Mr. Wright has been a bit too eager to jump to conclusions...  : Witness...?: Mr. Edgeworth!: What is it? : Could you show me your: evidence list again, please?: His list?: The one with that... picture scribbled on the back? : This picture...: I'm the one who drew it.: What!?: You drew that?: That's right.   : I must have locked this part away deep inside me...: Perhaps it would be best...: if we added this to the witness's testimony.: Would you please tell us what you've recalled, Ms. Skye?: Yes, Your Honor.: (First the knife mix-up, and now... the Blue Badger?): (This should be interesting...)       : This is certainly most unusual...: Try impossible! : (That would mean he didn't even exist two years ago...): Yes, well. The defense may now begin its cross-examination. : Lana!: What's the meaning of this!?: Please remain seated in the defendant's chair! : But you can't do this! : I've already confessed to the crime! Why can't you just leave it at that!?: Chief Prosecutor Skye.: !: We've already come this far.: It's too late to turn back.: Silence!: The defense will now begin its cross-examination.: Bailiff. Please detain the defendant.: (It seems we're finally getting to the core of the matter.)   : When you say, "that man," I assume you refer to Joe Darke?: Yes... at least, I think it was him.: You... "think"? : All I could really see were shadows.: The power outage that immediately preceded the incident, is also documented in the Prosecutor's Office reports.: So then you... : Why would you do something so dangerous!?: What else could I have done!?: He was about to stab Mr. Marshall!: (She seems convinced that Darke was the one holding the knife...): But as we've just theorized, : Well, I didn't know that at the time!: When that Darke guy knocked me down,: all I could think was, "I've got to help Mr. Marshall!" : What do you mean, you "think"?: It... it all happened so fast...: And I was in shock! I don't remember everything clearly.: What I did... it's all kind of a blur...: In a matter of just a few seconds, Ms. Skye was almost killed, then she witnessed a: murder about to take place. A little disorientation is only natural.: I saw the man about to stab the other person, who I thought was Mr. Marshall.: I knew I had to stop the man with the knife. : What you did was very brave, young girl.: So then, what happened next? : Are you sure about this? : But... : And that was just this year... The Blue Badger didn't exist two years ago.: This is all quite verifiable.: I know it sounds strange. I was surprised too when I saw him at the Police Department.  : Now I finally remember!: (Oh brother. Just when you thought that thing had caused enough commotion...): Tell us...: Where in the room did you see him dancing? : His shadow?  : That's right... but I still remember it.: He had three creepy horns...: This is pointless! That thing couldn't possibly have existed two years ago...: The witness must be mistaken!: That may well be...: but what's important is what caused her to think she saw what she did.: Oh? And I suppose you have an explanation? : (What was it Ema saw when that lightning flashed?)   : I absolutely and positively have no idea whatsoever! : ...: ...: Well, it's always good to be sure of oneself! : Apparently it helps when trying to overlook one's failures...: But I know what I saw! I'm not making this up! Mr. Wright, please!: You've got to believe me...: Ema...And loop. : (The Blue Badger didn't even exist two years ago... So what exactly did Ema see?): (I've gathered all the evidence. All that's left now...): (is to put the pieces of the puzzle together...)Next time: Who is the Blue Badger?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 15:58
|
|
|
Is it the vase with Ema's fingerprints?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 18:26
|
|
|
I told you that Blue Badger motherfucker had bloodlust in its heart. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
I've solved the case. It's a curse. The Blue Badger is like The Ring. Neil Marshall saw his horrible disembodied head hovering above, and died. Ema Skye was spared because she made a drawing of the Badger apparition, which was later seen by Gumshoe. Gumshoe survived because he used the drawing as a basis for his Badger effigy, which was later seen by Bruce Goodman. Bruce Goodman failed to spread the dark gospel of the Badger entity, and so the Badger curse took his life. Tunahead fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Feb 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 09:20
|
|
|
As if it christen how close we're getting to the truth, we have Lana actually having an emotion beyond being vaguely sad or stern. We must not have far to go... and I'm getting a bad feeling where it's going. I'm with SgtSteel here; the vase is the only thing we have which could have cast a shadow like the blue Badgers's... and it was thrown? Was Ema the one who threw it? Did she actually kill Neil Marshall or Darke somehow?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
Why is everyone assuming Marshall was using the knife from the prosecutor's trophy? Joe Darke killed without mercy but defiling police property is a bridge too far?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
Glazius posted:Why is everyone assuming Marshall was using the knife from the prosecutor's trophy? Joe Darke killed without mercy but defiling police property is a bridge too far? Because Neil was the one who had the trophy, not Darke. If the knife from the trophy was in the room, it had to be because Neil brought it with him when he was chasing Darke. If the man standing in the scene Ema saw had a broken knife, then that must be Neil, since he brought that knife with him, and Darke's knife couldn't have been broken yet, since it had not been stabbed into Neil yet for the tip to come off. That is the logic they were going with in that argument.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
Case 5 - Rise From the Ashes Trial (Day 4) - Part 4  : (The Blue Badger hadn't even been dreamed up when Ema drew this picture.): (Yet she's certain she saw its "shadow"!): Ladies and gentlemen... It is the defense's belief that on that fateful day two years ago...: there indeed was something that looked similar to the Blue Badger...: Something that is now sitting in this very room! : Mr. Wright...!: In this room? Very well, Mr. Wright.: What is it that the witness saw in that instant?  : But that's...: Er, what exactly is that?: I believe: it's some sort of jar.: But Mr. Wright!: That doesn't look anything like the Blue Badger!: Indeed it doesn't. As it stands now, it's just a plain jar. However...: What if we were to change our viewpoint?: Our viewpoint...? We now get to rotate the thing until we reach the Blue Badger. The game's kind of picky about it, but getting it wrong has no penalty - just some uninteresting 'maybe I need to rotate this more' stuff..  This'll work, though.   : No...: It can't be!!!: Order! Order!: The defense has proven its claim.: The mysterious "Blue Badger" witnessed on the day of the crime was actually this...: Although we all enjoyed Mr. Wright's dramatic performance, one question remains...: What's your point!?: What do you mean?: So that Badger thing was actually just a jar.: That doesn't change anything! : I'm afraid that's where you're wrong, Mr. Edgeworth.: You see...: this changes everything!: Indeed? Very well, then. Please tell us... This is a false choice - all of the responses get the exact same result. : Allow me to take these in turn. : Not only that, but she saw it at a very specific angle.: Knowing this, where could she have seen this jar?: Where...?: The location of the jar is shown in a picture taken on the day of the crime. : But the body was found lying near Lana Skye's desk!: The witness testified so herself!: Yes! And it is these two facts that reveal what actually transpired! You see... The struggle between Darke and Marshall did not take place in Lana Skye's office!: It happened on the other side of the room, in Chief Gant's office!: Are you implying the murderer moved the victim's body? : Yes.: Why would he do that!?: There's no reason! : Exactly.: !: If there wasn't a "reason"...: he wouldn't have gone through the trouble. The only logical conclusion...: is that there was a "reason.": Do you know: what that reason was, Mr. Wright? : (So this is why Lana tried to stop the trial!) : Please recall the witness's testimony.: She said she knocked away the man who was holding up the knife. In the next instant, the jar was hit and flew threw the air...."threw?" : Now tell me...: What could have sent the jar flying?: That would have to have been...: the impact the man made when: he was knocked into the wall?: Ladies and gentlemen...: if I may draw your attention to this picture once more. : what would he have hit?: A-AHHHHHH...: The suit of armor!: Holding... a very sharp and dangerous-looking sword...: Yes. : he would have to have been Neil Marshall, wielding the Prosecutor's Award.: No...: Mr. Wright... You can't be thinking...: Yes.: There is another possibility of what actually transpired in that room.: Another possibility?: Of course the perpetrator would have had no idea, but nevertheless! ... (I...): (I don't know if I can go through with this...): Mr. Wright? What's the matter?: If events took place as the defense theorizes...: Then the outcome is obvious. In that moment...: assuming the man Ema Skye knocked away was actually Prosecutor Neil Marshall...  : Mr. Marshall died... because of... me...?  Ema has fainted again. : I never imagined her testimony would lead to this...: So it was the witness who took the victim's life...: and then proved so with her own testimony!: This is unprecedented!     : What... What are you saying?: I'm sorry, Ms. Skye, but given the circumstances...: Joe Darke murdered Prosecutor Marshall! : Imagine that, coming from you.: !: As I recall, it was you who admitted to forging evidence two years ago.: The reason you moved Prosecutor Marshall's body... was to keep anyone else from finding out about what Ema did, wasn't it?: I assure you, Mr. Edgeworth, I have no idea what you're talking about. If you hope to have anyone believe your insane allegations,: I'm afraid you're going to have to have proof. Tell me...: Do you have any conclusive evidence that proves my sister killed Neil Marshall?: E-evidence?: I'm willing to bet you don't.: Yes...: it certainly would be difficult to prove this with evidence.: If we don't have evidence,: then we'll have to rely on testimony. : I'm afraid that won't work in this case. Both parties involved in the incident are dead.: ...! (We certainly can't get dead people to testify.)  : Hmph. Touche, Ms. Skye.: Of course...: That only leaves us with one possibility.: ...!: (You mean, there's still another possibility?): What do you mean, Mr. Edgeworth?: I mean, the possibility that: the victim has left us a message. : He may have left behind the name of the person who took his life...: somehow.: That's... : That's impossible!: Well, Mr. Wright? This is the only possibility left to you. A message from the deceased...: Does such a message exist?: (I've got to think back to the Court Record!)  : (No...): (There's no way a dead person could tell the murderer's name!): Well.: It looks like this is as far as we can go with this.: Mr. Wright. You disappoint me.: I never thought you the type to let feelings cloud your judgment.: My feelings...?: If we overlook the victim's message... one he would have written with literally his last breath,: then everything will be lost in darkness! : (This is it.): (I can't afford any more mistakes.)This leaves us where the right path starts.  : This "message" from the deceased...: is already in our possession.: Mr. Wright! Will you stop at nothing to prove my sister a murderer?: Do not be mistaken, Ms. Skye.: ...!: Our purpose is not to accuse Ema of any crime. There is only one thing we seek:: the truth.: No matter how painful it may be.: Now then, Mr. Wright. : This is the message left by the deceased. : Oh, is he going to just speak the killer's name?: If that thing could, I'm sure it would. : A message was left here...: on the surface of this jar.: What do you mean? : It looks like someone wiped the blood away.: ...: Yes, but notice: for some reason... the blood on some of the fragments was not wiped away.: Yes... there is a line here... drawn in blood!: So what you're saying, is that these "dots"...: were once lines!: Prosecutor Marshall did not die instantly.: He used the few precious moments left to him to leave behind a message!: One that someone apparently wiped away...: But blood must have seeped into the jar where the lines change directions.: Precisely so! All we need to do is connect these points...: and the victim's message will become apparent! : N-no...!: Mr. Wright!: What kind of message did the victim leave for us!? : (I've got to connect these dots to make letters. There's only one thing the victim would have written, given the circumstances:) Now, we have to connect the dots. We can draw lines between any of the dots to any of the other dots, and can cancel them out with the B button...but only in the order they were entered. No selective line deletions.   : (That's why all I've been thinking about is saving Lana.)  : So this is the final message Prosecutor Marshall left behind. : She may not have meant it... but in the end, the one who took the victim's life...: was Ema Skye.    : Chief Gant... : Do you understand the implications of what you've done?: What...? What are you talking about? : Two years ago,: Joe Darke was sentenced to death. He was convicted because of his final murder. : I believe you were the prosecutor in the case, were you not?: Ack! : Yes, Worthy. Because of you...: an innocent man was sentenced to death.: Not only that...: but you used forged evidence to ensure his conviction! : But Joe Darke really was a serial murderer!: That's undeniable! : I'm afraid that's not important.: Didn't you know? We aren't defenders of justice.: What?: We're merely keepers of the law. Sentencing a man to death...: is no light matter. Even if there wasn't any cover-up or evidence forgery...: ultimately the responsibility falls on the prosecutor in charge.: !:: Despite what anyone may say,: this fact cannot be denied.      : Unable to settle the crowd, the judge declared a recess. Where this trial is headed, no one knows... Next time: Maybe we can salvage this. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Mar 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 04:23
|
|
|
Now to prove Gant is behind the forgery and coverups and most recent murders I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 05:19
|
|
|
Japanifornia: where the laws are made up and the intent doesn't matter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 06:31
|
|
|
So far she hasn't be called a murderer, but a killer. And she did kill him, even without intend. She just didn't murder him. Or am I missing something?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 06:34
|
|
|
To say that the Phoenix Wright games play it fast and loose with legal procedure is a bit of an understatement. In theory, she would now be tried for manslaughter (which she committed by accident as a small child), because Japanifornia, but that would be a separate trial. Regardless there's still a bit of digging left to do here and now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 06:41
|
|
|
Wipfmetz posted:So far she hasn't be called a murderer, but a killer. And she did kill him, even without intend. She just didn't murder him. doesn't matter if it wasn't intentional someone should go to jail, shouldn't they?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
Wipfmetz posted:So far she hasn't be called a murderer, but a killer. And she did kill him, even without intend. She just didn't murder him. The game posted:Accidental murder is still murder. This is Japanifornia.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 07:27
|
|
|
I mean Edgeworth was going to be accused of murdering his own father for throwing a gun at a guy that conveniently discharged when it impacted. Japanifornia is very harsh on people winding up dead through any kind of action on your part.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 07:30
|
|
|
Mostly this series' fetish for dying messages really annoys me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 07:36
|
|
|
Joe Darke, spree killer, known innocent man.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 08:16
|
|
|
There is something terrifying about a universe where people can consider a known serial killer innocent but consider a girl who tried to save a man's life by shoving his attacker a murderer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 08:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 17:24 |
|
|
It says a lot that the Japanifornia justice system could figure out a spree killer and bring him in, but not have any loving evidence that would convict him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2017 08:20
|
|