EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

steinrokkan posted:

im afraid that if the brexit goes through i wont be able to buy cheap cheddar and proper bacon any more

Just import that poo poo from Lower Saxony. It's basically England, anyway. The same weather, the same kind of people, just with cleaner air. If you walk into one of these small, forgotten villages where half the people still speak Plattdeutsch, you'll never even notice the difference.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2016 16:19

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 22:24

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

waitwhatno posted:

Our official motto is "the internet makes you stupid" and our proudest achievements are the slenderman killings and 9/11 yakety sax. Siriously, why would you come to this dead gay comedy forum and complain about people making jokes?

And what's the deal with insomnia, anyway? Like, first your brain is all "nah, I don't need no stinkin' sleep, I'm fine" and then when you need to get up it's all "zzzZzzzzZ, i'm too tired to get up!". What's up with that? Have you ever noticed that?

I tried this insomnia thing once, it didn't work out. Turns out if you don't sleep for a couple months, you die. How was I supposed to know that??

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 02:34

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

ReagaNOMNOMicks posted:

Considering physical geography, a 2.962km tall wall migh be necessary for our purposes here.

e: because we're not talking about the same thing maybe???

I think you're confusing drowning with death through deep sea water pressure there

# ¿ Mar 15, 2016 19:03

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

YF-23 posted:

If you're going to put up a wall around Germany, and fill it with water, and you want to submerge all of Germany at least 10 meters deep, the wall will need to extend to an altitude of 10 meters above the highest point in Germany, otherwise you'll get spillage.

The Mount Everest isn't in Germany though. This means a 10km wall is still overkill. Besides this, if Trump gets elected we might consider putting up ludicrously high walls around the US instead. And submerge them in poo poo, paid for by Mexico

Also I didn't saw this mentioned yet:

Turkish civil servants arrived today in Greece to help Greek authorities to implement the treaty.

The start is pretty rough, though: Apparently they're missing everything they need to work, like machines, translators, enough time and other stuff.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2016 22:37

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

LemonDrizzle posted:

https://next.ft.com/content/e90a080e-107b-11e6-91da-096d89bd2173?siteedition=uk#axzz47c1CQziH

Well, good news for once!

# ¿ May 9, 2016 11:02

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

blowfish posted:

With a rather broad definition for serious risk, arguably.

Back when I was in the Bundeswehr, one of the buildings I had to guard had a poster detailing something ludicrous like 20 stages of alert for Germany. We were at stage 3 at some point, but our effort in Afghanistan raised this to 5 for nebulous reasons. Over the years, I hazily recall our dear leaders talking about raising the terror-alert one or two times. So if this is true, Germany is now at terror alert 7 (out of 20).

Cat Mattress posted:

The whole point of hiring foreign workers is that they aren't actually aware of how much free time their job is supposed to give them.

Not only foreign workers fall into this trap, my own mother got screamed at by us last year because she stumbled into a lot of bullshit because she didn't know her employer wasn't allowed to do certain things and she and her fellow workers just believed everything they'd been told without question. Hell, even if you know about your rights pressure can sometimes force you into a lot of unpaid overtime. Would you throw away your chance at an apprenticeship just to enforce your rights? It's a hard choice.

# ¿ May 18, 2016 12:46

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Rappaport posted:

This was decided when we adopted the euro, we never had 1 and 2 euro cent coins so no one misses them. I can't remember if we had 1 penny coins back when we still had the mark.

We had. I still have some 1, 2 and 5 Pfennig-coins for sentimental reasons.

# ¿ May 18, 2016 13:10

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Kurtofan posted:

more evidence that Germans are the wurst

In Germany, most shop owners are thankful for small money, since they tend to run out of change fast

# ¿ May 18, 2016 13:37

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Brainiac Five posted:

Apart from what other, wiser people have said, every fascist that ends in the hospital has had their ability to contribute to fascism impaired significantly. If that ain't constructive...

It would only be constructive if those people suddenly had an epiphany on the hospital bed and magically transformed from evil fascist into good democrat

# ¿ May 27, 2016 14:38

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Friendly Humour posted:

There is a policeman inside all our heads, he must be destroyed.

That policeman is actually the good guy, he protects us from evil

# ¿ May 27, 2016 14:52

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:

well more people have been killed by police in america than by terrorism

Looks like those policemen need their own little policeman in their heads. Who watches the watchmen, eh?

# ¿ May 27, 2016 15:15

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

It's interesting. In comparison, the USA have already seen multiple political parties die and disappear over the course of their multiple century long history. It looks like know it's time for our German democracy to see the death of their first parties.

(I'm still hoping for the FDP to die first.)

# ¿ May 31, 2016 22:57

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Lagotto posted:

I'm guessing history is not really your thing?

Quite the opposite, actually

# ¿ May 31, 2016 23:15

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Lagotto posted:

Maybe American history then? The European political landscape has always been incredibly fragmented compared to the US one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_political_parties_in_Germany

I was talking about the modern German state, which only started existing in 1949. Additionally, that list includes totally irrelevant small groups I've never heard off. Certainly no major German party of the republic has died so far.

fishmech posted:

The last major party to die in America was the Whigs in 1854, and they were a) only around for 21 years and b) never a stable party.

Sorry, you're flat out wrong here.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 00:01

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Confusion posted:

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/british-hover-craft-boss-joins-leave-campaign-97076/

She is for leaving the EU, but basically all her arguments are pro EU. (i.e. trade agreements and common safety regulations)

I especially like:

This is solved by brexit how exactly ? The UK magically suddenly has trade agreements with everybody?

And the whole CE argument is incoherent at best. Brexit will cause CE to stop existing? The UK will suddenly control the regulations? EU countries will suddenly not require it anymore?

This doesn't matter, the UK-citizens tend to be wrong about everything anyway, the worse she argues the higher the chance the UK-population agrees with her.

In a few weeks we can celebrate when the fabulous land of Greater Great Britain finally boots itself out of the EU and we real Europeans can start reforming this mess.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2016 20:58

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Dawncloack posted:

I don't know, my friend, is the UK the real problem?

I really want to know how you think the reforms should go. And this question is twofold, that is, I am asking both in terms of where it should go and how are you going to get the EC on board.

I mention that last part because article 289 of the Lisbon treaty makes it so that only the executive branch, ie. the European Commission, can introduce legislation. All reform, thus, depends on an unelected body. How do you see it working?

To be fair, I have no idea. This is why I go to elections to elect people I hope know more about this. Representative Democracy!

On the UK, didn't they enter the EU just to gently caress with France and Germany? Our media here in Germany is kind of torn, I've seen articles calling Great Britain the blockers and saboteurs of the European idea and articles begging Great Britain to stay. Because reasons.

Personally, I'm sad to see a country leave the European Union, but with the UK blocking every reform effort and having all these special snowflake demands to sabotage us, I think it's for the best they leave.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 11:37

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

forkboy84 posted:

No, they didn't join the EEC just to gently caress with France & Germany. France kept the UK out of the EEC for years because De Gaulle wanted to stick to fingers up at Britain but that was about it.

OK, I may have gotten that one British satire comedy episode mixed up with reality, but it's still rather interesting how Great Britain still has all those special demands. I think it's bad how the EU basically has to bow to Mega Britain every time they have another idea how to screw us over.

My favorite fuckery is Thatcher's old EU-discount: Did you know thanks to Thatcher the UK has to contribute less then other nations? Since 1984 the UK can look at what they're paying to the EU, compare it to the agricultural subsidies they're getting and can get up to 2/3rds of the difference back. It's now 2016 and this discount is still there, just slightly less brazenly high!

Stuff like this is why many people think the UK should just go back to doing their own thing. They obviously don't want to be part of a unified Europe.

Edit:

If you can read German or use Google translate, here is a larger list of British Special Snowflake Rules. After reading all that stuff they don't want I'm not even sure why the UK is in the EU right now. It certainly doesn't look they want to be a part of it.

Libluini fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jun 16, 2016

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 11:59

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

It looks like some Brexitians think they can just calmly ignore EU-rules for leaving the EU and just gently caress everything up while of course still cashing in EU-money for years. The EU has started to plan for the worst case. If this happens, the British Economy will be trashed.

Hopefully this doesn't happen: Cameron has said if the Brexit wins, he will just go the normal way of the 2-year-exit as the EU-rules demand. Everything will be slowly untied and no-one has to suffer. It all depends on if Cameron can control the Brexit-faction after a victory, though.

Stefan Kornelius from the S�ddeutsche Zeitung has his own comment on this affair: Finally: The EU talks straight with the British

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 12:28

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Lagotto posted:

Sorry but I can't find data supporting this. Regardless, most of the EU is a net receiver of EU funds, the UK is a net payer. The UK leaving will directly cause a new budget gap.

Then read my loving links, you dumb gently caress.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 13:23

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Cat Mattress posted:

The UK has always pushed for (what became) the European Union to be a common market/neoliberal free trade zone and nothing else. They've pushed pretty hard for fast-paced enlargement and consistently opposed attempts at further integration. So they're really at odds with the original idea that was to become, eventually, a federal union of European nations.

Well, then I guess it's really good for the future of the European idea if the UK finally leaves. Though if the Brexit-supporters end up loving over the British economy thanks to their hairbrained ideas of leaving while continuing to pump the EU for money, I will laugh so hard.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 13:39

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Lagotto posted:

What are you on about weirdo?

I don't think it can make sense and ve fuckery at the same time. They are still paying more per capita then Austria for instance. (I thought so anyway but let me check your link) But my main point is that Libluini 's post is terribly unnuanced click bait hysterics.

It's not click bait, it is just a list of things the UK has pushed through to get themselves some nice gifts to the detriment of the EU, plus a political comment on the issue of the looming Brexit. If that counts as click bait, I guess you should stop watching news altogether.

Also I'm well aware Great Britain is still a net contributor, that's not my point: They still have all those special wishes to gently caress us over. If you need tons of special gifts to keep someone in, you may be better off without them.

Shazback posted:

No. After.

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm

According to this, the total expenditure for the UK places them on place 7 for the greatest contributors to the EU. Mostly thanks to that giant rebate reducing their total contribution. Without that rebate, they would place 3rd behind Poland and France.

The UK-correction for 2014 was over 6 billion Euros. It's impressive though that after the revenue and the UK-rebate, there was still something like 4 billion � net contribution left. Good for them.

Disclaimer:

I'm bad at math, so if you want to be sure, use the link and go through the display options yourself.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 14:00

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

El Perkele posted:

Please explain this scheme again because it sounds so crazy. It's so crazy it might even work!

From the article I linked:

quote:

Die Frage ist, ob Cameron nach einem Debakel im Referendum in der Lage sein wird, dieses Versprechen einzul�sen. Bef�rworter des Brexit haben schon angek�ndigt, sich mit dem Artikel 50 zun�chst nicht abgeben zu wollen. Man solle doch erst einmal schauen, ob es nicht einen "informelleren Prozess" gibt, sagte der Fraktionschef der Konservativen im Unterhaus, Chris Grayling, der Financial Times.

Noch vor dem Brexit m�chte Grayling EU-Recht in Gro�britannien teilweise aushebeln. So soll etwa die Geltung von Urteilen des Europ�ischen Gerichtshofes eingeschr�nkt werden. Auch in Migrationsfragen und in der Handelspolitik will Grayling EU-Recht ignorieren. Ein Gesetz von 1972, das die �bertragung von Souver�nit�tsrechten nach Europa regelt, will der Tory ebenfalls vor dem Austritt kassieren.

Leader of the Conservatives in the House of Commons, Chris Grayling, told the Financial Times he wants a more "informal process", instead of following EU-regulations for leaving the EU. He wants to dismantle EU-laws even before leaving the EU. Migration, trade politic, an old law from 1972 over transfering souvereignty to Europe, everything should be ignored even before the UK is out.

For some reason he doesn't mention what happens to EU-subsidaries coming into Britain during the time where Britain ignores everything else, which has Brussels in a panic. Juncker's people have already made some legal examinations and are now fairly sure if Chris Grayling gets his way, they can just immediately suspend Britain's membership to prevent shenanigans. Of course when this happens, there will be a bad transition phase where for all intents and purposes, Great Britain will suddenly be unable to trade with any EU-member. Only a couple months at worst, probably. The British economy will still get hit hard, though.

This is of course only the very worst possibility, everyone (except Chris Grayling) wants to prevent this, there are some more talks about this in the future.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 14:10

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Britain won't be able to trade at all, or not able to sell its products to EU-members?

I don't know, this has never happened before after all. At the very least be prepared for several months of massive confusion at the borders if the worst-case scenario happens.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 15:00

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

YF-23 posted:

As plausible as that nightmare scenario is, the dude's pretty old so I'll be at least somewhat surprised if he doesn't retire.

Our president is retiring instead of facing re-election, so yeah retirement is an option for our very old politicians. Also, Sch�uble as Chancellor? :lol:

He's probably dead and decayed down to his skeleton long before Merkel steps down.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2016 12:07

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Cat Mattress posted:

Either way, I don't see reform of the EU possible without a Brexit. For at least two reasons:
1. The UK, ever since Thatcher, has been largely responsible (along with the Germans) for the EU being what it is now.
2. The EU is so sure of itself and so convinced that its policies are God's Unquestionable Truth that it just isn't possible at all for it to change without a seriously traumatic event to shake it up. Losing one of the Big Three countries could be that traumatic event that would lead to reexamining the validity of certain dogma that they adhere to despite reality getting consistently in the way.

According to the second poll on this article, everyone except Great Britain wants more integration, which would solve a lot of problems the current half-assed system has. Ironically, from the Big Three only Germany's population is in favour of more integration (59%). France is waffling on 49% indecision, while Great Britain is strongly against with only 31% in favor of more integration.

From the other major countries, Italy and Spain polled insanely high with 71% and 78%. Poland is reverse France with 50% in favor, but only 27% demanding less integration. (France has 40% demanding less peace and prosperity, more wars in Europe)

# ¿ Jun 20, 2016 14:46

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Why is Riso always wrong? Is he addicted to being wrong?

# ¿ Jun 24, 2016 16:38

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Tesseraction posted:

The Remain campaign didn't. The Leave campaign flew a biplane saying "TAKE BACK CONTROL" over her memorial though.

Which totally isn't politicising it or anything.

Every time I hear something about the Leavers, they sound more like total assholes.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2016 17:07

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Here's a hypothetical: How would you feel about a federal wealth transfer system run entirely by the EU, on top of the national institutions, which would help prevent the worst miseries in countries like Greece without simply "funneling money into a corrupt system"? Basically, an EU-wide benefits system which was run and designed according to Northern European specifications. Perhaps even designed in such a way that the only countries with any say over how it was run are the ones who are net contributors to the EU budget. The whole point being to support the economy and welfare in poorer states, without supporting corrupt state apparatuses, building up a healthier relationship between state and citizen than currently exists in some places. (The state being the EU in this case, rather than nation states.)

Obviously meant for GC, but I'll take all replies.

This is a great idea! It needs some modifications though, because there are problems.

1. The European Parliament needs a lot more power to prevent member states from just abusing/stealing whatever they can. And by member states I mean rich elites in those countries.

2. You're seriously underestimating how much money is needed to support welfare and economy in poorer states, since even the richer nations of the EU sometimes struggle with their own welfare problems. This Federal Wealth Transfer System needs a European tax, levied by the European Union onto all member states, to fund it. (Of course the more a nation needs support, the less they have to pay this "Unification Tax".)

3. The Unification Tax has to be large enough to also support a Supranational, real European military force, because you will need a lot of soldiers to put down the uprisings of hundreds of retarded nationalist organizations across Europe if 1. and 2. are implemented.

If all those preconditions are met, your system will work great! In fact, I'm tempted to create my own party to lobby for this.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 15:48

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

GaussianCopula posted:

Nope. This would be gigantic moral hazard. Countries would no longer be incentivized to actually create an environment in which businesses can thrive as they get more money the more unemployed they have.

As I understand his transfer system, countries wouldn't actually get money, individual people would get money from the EU as if the EU was the state. The actual danger would be in poorer member states cutting their own social benefits even more, since their citizens now get help from (mostly, see my additions) other nations.

If that happens though, those states will undermine their own national identity in favor of a European identity, so that wouldn't actually be a bad outcome. :v:

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 16:22

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

GaussianCopula posted:

Well, of course they would cut their own systems as much as possible. In addition the money their citizens get through the EU transfer system will be spend on goods and services in the country, which again increases the money that the specific country gets.

And this is a good thing. Think about it from the perspective of a poor man in one of these countries: First, they are starving because their country can't help them enough. Then the EU suddenly shows up and gives them money so they don't starve, followed by their own nation telling them to get hosed because they already get help from somewhere else.

If the EU saves you and your old country cuts you loose, what would you think?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 16:29

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

GaussianCopula posted:

I don't think that the EU image problem in net receiving countries is the big problem to be honest. At the very least their elites will prevent a Spexit, Grexit, Pexit.

Yeah, but that's not a long-term solution, it just means wobbling along from crisis to crisis like we're doing now. I like to implement A Buttery Pastry's idea together with my own additions, just so we can finally have some stability. And less nationalism.

With his idea the wrong kind of elites (the corrupt ones), will work together with nationalists to undermine nationalism and support the EU, simply by making the people on the street hate them. It's the kind of pro-active, grass-roots approach at changing people's minds that we need.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 16:44

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

GaussianCopula posted:

I'm sure the people that are going to pay for this image campaign are going to be thrilled that they can indirectly finance the corrupt elites in the South and will in no way harbour ill feelings towards the EU. Especially once the Leave slogans are no longer propaganda but actually true.

What image campaign? We're talking about a new bureaucracy influencing people's lives directly. And how are social benefits indirectly financing the elites? Because people will buy food and goods in shops owned by them? By that dumbass logic we shouldn't give anyone any benefits, because we can only not benefit those guys by starving to death voluntarily, thus depriving them of profit. This is stupid.

Hey, maybe the next time I need food I should just eat dirt from the street instead, that'll show those elites!

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 16:50

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

GaussianCopula posted:

Why would you believe that France, without the US and UK, who are both no (longer) members of the EU, would stand a chance against Germany?

They win because Germany is on their side

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 17:28

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Why doesn't Italy just liquidate those pensioners, since they're economically unproductive and have shown themselves to be entirely irresponsible? This will save hardworking tax payers a lot of trouble, restore market confidence, and serve as an object lesson for the rest of the EU.

The only way to get immediately ejected from the EU is re-introducing the death penalty.

So even if I take your joke post seriously, it wouldn't work.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 06:15

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Dawncloack posted:

In my opinion, Russia is reacting to the West's encirclement by creating frozen conflicts that drain resources from said countries and push Eastern Europe to authoritarian/crazy governments.

What encirclement? Is China now part of the West, too?

# ¿ Jul 26, 2016 14:24

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Dawncloack posted:

Are you playing dumb now, my friend? Just because one side isn't covered doesnt' mean it's not encirclement. Have you not been following the news? Or do you really believe that the ballistic missile systems in Poland are there to stop Iranian missiles?

I've never understood the logic behind arguing a defensive system is somehow a threat. It's not like we're planning to nuke Russia and trying to sabotage their second strike capabilities, the systems are clearly a deterrent against a Russian first strike. (Or Iranian missiles. :v:

)

Also I disagree about your logic, for me an encirclement means you have at least try to surround someone, not just put a defense system and some guys around some parts of your "enemy's" border.

Tesseraction posted:

I believe he's referring to the NATO countries having arms on their Russian borders as opposed to 'countries who share a border with Russia'

Most of those forces are ludicrously weak though, since they're meant as a deterrent against Russian invasion and not part of some mythical "encirclement".

# ¿ Jul 27, 2016 09:08

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Fair points, but as I understand it ICBMs are only vulnerable during a short time window after launch, so the Russians could just use more submarines or put more launch silos into Siberia to fire ICBMS into directions a missile defense system in Poland can't cover.

In hindsight, I'm not even sure if a missile defense in Poland would be any good, since it's essentially the US betting the Russian Federation will just leave all their nuclear silos unchanged, instead of slowly relocating launchers and ICBMs to regions uncovered by the Polish defense system.

I think the Russians can start to feel threatened when China joins NATO and puts up a missile defense. Then indeed NATO could intercept basically everything Russia could launch, except some submarines of course. That would be an encirclement and a rather strong one.

When that actually happens, I'll gladly concede that Russia is indeed encircled. None of you will be able to read that future post though, since all of Europe will be a radioactive hellhole. :v:

Dawncloack posted:

PS. Cool LP, yours.

Thanks!

# ¿ Jul 27, 2016 13:49

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Tesseraction posted:

I mean as in it doesn't go from 0 to 100%

I get what you mean, but compressing the data on the right into a graph going to 100% would make it either hard to read or harder to compare to the left one.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2016 11:36

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

LemonDrizzle posted:

itshappening dot jay eye eff

e: same thing with Juppe instead of Sarko:

Also, the PVV may or may not be on course to come out on top in the Dutch elections this year so hopefully we can all go into an destructive spiral of political insanity together.

Who is Jupp�? Never heard of him.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2016 10:47

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 22:24

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Toplowtech posted:

Former Prime Minister, mayor of Bordeaux, criminal convict. "He is the best amongst us!" - most rightwingers after Jupp� went to jail to protect their whole party, but before Jupp� get stabbed in the back multiple times by Sarkosists.

vvvv that would be Adolphe Thiers.

Bulbo posted:

Giant effort post

Thanks for the info! Looks like this Jupp�-guy is the best option left for France, the other dumbasses look like the personification of divine punishment for France to me.

Cat Mattress posted:

It's the guy who wanted to sell Thomson (now Thales) for one (1) franc to Daewoo. Because Thomson's finance were bad, while Daewoo's were excellent! Public outcry successfully aborted the sale, and then a few months later Daewoo went bankrupt.

Fun fact: Jupp� was nicknamed "Amstrad" early on in his career because of how modern and technocratic he was!

My first computer was an Amstrad. :haw:

Now for news from the rest of Europe (but it's still sprinkled with a little bit of France):

For some reason the German export machine is going absolutely apeshit: It looks like Germany will secure global place 1 for export surplus this year. The prognosis for 2016 is something like 310 billion Dollar, nearly twice as much as our imports.

According to that article, Germany exports so much it throws the entire world trading balance out of wack. If this mad capitalist offensive continues for the rest of the year, we will beat powerhouses China (place 2 with 260 billion Dollar) and Japan (place 3, even less). The EU-Commission meanwhile, is horrified by the tension this giant export surplus creates in the EU.

Good news, everyone! Looks like now, with Great Britain on its way out of Europe, Germany and France have suddenly remembered article 44 of the Lisbon treaties. We will finally get a unified European military!

To your information: In long forgotten article 44 it was stated EU-nations were allowed to pursue cooperation in different speeds if consens couldn't be found with all states. The article claims that with consideration to Britain's pecularities, this article wasn't really used much so Britain wouldn't get scared. Now with Brexit looming, France and Germany decided to just go ahead with unifying European militaries. If other nations don't want to do this, everything will be fine: Just France and Germany will unify their military structures in that case. Other nations can follow whenever they feel ready. :smug:

And for the end, a little bit of farce from Austria: The planned repeat of the presidential election has hit some obstacles. Austria's absentee ballot envelopes have faulty glue. Now the government is making plans for moving the election to November, to get time to unfuck the ballot-production. (It's forbidden to use your own glue or non-official envelopes by the way.)

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 14:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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