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Quidnose posted:Like this is such a random rear end thing to be insisting I do, of course I understood you thought I was being disingenuous and building a fake case, but I expected you to say "because you're focusing on the semantic argument and that's not really indicative of scumminess" which you eventually got to but you initially countered with "because you were trying to get a power role voted out" which is....kind of a weird perspective, from my point of view. Ah, I at least begin to understand where you were coming from. So you were looking for "Why is this post scummy" as opposed to "What were my motivations for making the post". I've been answering the second one. But I still don't think your assertion is supported. There are very limited reasons I could have thought that post was scummy and I even outlined IN THE POST my problem with it. That I myself use that word choice all the time regardless of alignment. You still seem to be claiming I could use that post as the backdrop for some kind of cornucopia of future positions and I think that is ridiculous. --- On the power role claim. I pretty much always believe people on claims until until something gets in the way of believing them. This is in part because I've seen so many people get cuddled as power roles that I'm super gun shy about going after them. My position seems to be relatively unique on SA, given the results of my last few games, but I think it is the correct one to hold. We are way too willing to vote out our power roles as a community. --- So the combo here is, "Quid just twisted words that I myself always use to seem scummy", which is a trigger for me, with "Quid is going after a soft claimed power role". I let it simmer over night and decided you were scum.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:56
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Quidnose posted:You are correct in saying that there wasn't really anything else you could say beyond "your semantic tact is odd, I don't think Jimson is scum and I am suspicious of you for the way you are going about this," I will admit that. But the WAY this has slowly twisted from the open-ended point you started at to this new point of view is suspicious and slippery to me, coupled with your own semantic insistence that I am somehow misrepresenting you? Finally. Thank you. You should maybe reread our whole chain now in light of the fact that you have been saying something about my post that is emphatically untrue.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:57
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That is the yammiest yams post I have ever seen and I am fairly certain everything KB is saying is from a scum perspective currently. This whole argument has felt like you trying to confuse and befuddle me in hopes of getting me to contradict myself so you could jump out and gotcha me. It reeks of scum intent.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:19
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##vote KB I'm willing to thunderdome it~
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Mar 23, 2016 00:19
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Wow. You are so very bad. I'll thunderdome it, since I think you have to be scum with the way you are playing fast and lose with the truth of what people are saying. If town sides with you for some dumb reason they better cuddle you tomorrow.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:21
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I was hoping to do some reading up but work has exploded for me today, I should have some time tomorrow which I have off.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:25
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King Burgundy posted:Wow. You are so very bad. Where else have I played fast and loose with the truth of what people are saying beyond this exchange, KB? Where? 
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Mar 23, 2016 00:27
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Quidnose posted:Where else have I played fast and loose with the truth of what people are saying beyond this exchange, KB? Where? Jimson's post, which we just spend pages discussing.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:27
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Pretty sure your entire interaction with Rarity was also of a similar vein.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:27
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JakeP posted:nobody else is really coming across super scummy to me. I think a lot of players are kind of waiting for things to happen, maybe a bit moreso than would be usual for them. KK, KB, and TMM are three players who come to mind that seem to be playing differently than I am used to seeing them play as town yeah I know. I almost always have something to say, but I'm at a loss right now. As Ninth said, I just have town reads on everyone. My skill set is analysis once a scum flips, but that hasn't happened yet. They usually fall like dominoes though after that. We have a day and I'm going to spend most of the morning tomorrow and doing some good old fashioned analysis
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Mar 23, 2016 00:30
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King Burgundy posted:This seems kind of obvious to me, but you were trying to get a town power role voted out? Like, I'm frankly confused at what you think you are asking here that isn't already presented. What other answers would there even be to this question? Quidnose was calling Jimson scummy long before Jimson softclaimed a power role, I don't think it is suspicious or even uncommon for players who suspected a guy to still suspect him despite softclaims or full-out claims.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:33
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usually when I think everyone is town that means the scum are good players. I think we should start lynching the best players in the game
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Mar 23, 2016 00:34
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I'm not voting for myself buddy.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:34
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The Ninth Layer posted:Quidnose was calling Jimson scummy long before Jimson softclaimed a power role, I don't think it is suspicious or even uncommon for players who suspected a guy to still suspect him despite softclaims or full-out claims. That doesn't change the nature of the posts in any significant fashion. I attribute those as motives to him, but a standard scum motive of trying to get any town cuddled would also work. And none of it changes the way he twisted Jimson's words to form some new scummy narrative. There were plenty of other posts he could have focused on to sell Jimson as scum that were actually scummy. But he needed to come up with a new ridiculous reason to stand out so he wasn't just me too'ing. I guess?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:37
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Khris Kruel posted:usually when I think everyone is town that means the scum are good players. I think we should start lynching the best players in the game So that would be JakeP, TNL, and Rarity?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:38
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King Burgundy posted:That doesn't change the nature of the posts in any significant fashion. I attribute those as motives to him, but a standard scum motive of trying to get any town cuddled would also work. This is the biggest pile of hot garbage. WHY, with Jimson as the leading cuddle candidate for many people the next day, would I need to come out with a new reason to me too it? How was I even me too-ing it if I had: 1. been interacting with Jimson and calling him scummy and his play shoddy 2. casing Jimson doing exactly the above 3. reiterating my point that I felt Jimson was the best candidate You are contradicting yourself, I can't be both on Jimson's rear end the whole time as you just agreed with TNL and me-tooing to look town, that's bullshit.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:42
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The KB/Quid interaction has me thinking KB is town and Quid is scum. In my last game with (scum) Quid he was doing a similar thing to (town)me, making a point of finding scummy interpretations of reasonably innocuous things I was saying.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:44
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King Burgundy posted:That doesn't change the nature of the posts in any significant fashion. I attribute those as motives to him, but a standard scum motive of trying to get any town cuddled would also work. I don't see anything in those posts that separate him from a town player who has made a read they are convinced about. Townies "twist words to form a scummy narrative" all the time, it's called case making.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:45
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Murmur Twin posted:The KB/Quid interaction has me thinking KB is town and Quid is scum. In my last game with (scum) Quid he was doing a similar thing to (town)me, making a point of finding scummy interpretations of reasonably innocuous things I was saying. What about KB's case is "reasonable" and "innocuous?" If you're gonna come down hard on one side with this without making a vote (presumably because you are a 3p and want to see how this is gonna ride out, I can get that) you better back it up. What about my interpretation of what KB is doing do you disagree with?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:46
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"Want to see how this is gonna ride out" being "which team can I side with to win," obv 
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Mar 23, 2016 00:47
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Could we get a list of the dead people in the OP Kashuno? Thanks.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:56
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Regarding KB's case, it centers around this post being potentially scummy -Quidnose posted:Can we also look at the subtle way in which Jimson is disengaging himself from taking responsibility for the BK cuddle, just in case something goes weird and we somehow miscuddle town? He's not a PART of the cuddle, BK is just being sent home. I think this is a strong indicator of Jimson's mindset, what an awkward, scummy way to phrase this. ...and I agree with him. I feel like the language you use is indicative of trying to convince people that Jimson is scum, not of trying to make a good-faith effort to figure out his alignment. Even if that's not what's going on, I can't believe you can't believe that someone might dare to case you on it which makes me think he's onto something. Quidnose posted:"Want to see how this is gonna ride out" being "which team can I side with to win," obv I will be upfront about the fact that I'm playing for self-preservation! If you're actually scum and want to NK me for blowing up your spot, just let me know and I'll stop 
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Mar 23, 2016 00:59
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Quidnose posted:This is the biggest pile of hot garbage. I didn't agree with TNL, did I? Phon posting now but could swear I told him that my motives were different but that there would be reasons from his perspective as well.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:03
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Oh, he can case me all he wants on it. But not in this weasely way. KB seems to have not seen that I was on Jimson before, and has presented that case of mine as scummy ~in a vacuum~, which you have latched on to. How do you feel in light of my other casework on him?
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Mar 23, 2016 01:04
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Murmur Twin posted:The KB/Quid interaction has me thinking KB is town and Quid is scum. In my last game with (scum) Quid he was doing a similar thing to (town)me, making a point of finding scummy interpretations of reasonably innocuous things I was saying. Yeah. I normally attribute that kind of thing to scum. I think this is the first time I've noticed quid doing it in a game.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:05
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The Ninth Layer posted:I don't see anything in those posts that separate him from a town player who has made a read they are convinced about. I don't really agree with this. My cases are never twists. 
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Mar 23, 2016 01:06
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King Burgundy posted:I didn't agree with TNL, did I? Phon posting now but could swear I told him that my motives were different but that there would be reasons from his perspective as well. You dismissed TNL's point and my previous casework as irrelevant because "as scum he would have motives to miscuddle town anyway." I mean basically according to you EVERYONE is scummy for making cases. That's hot garbage~
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Mar 23, 2016 01:06
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Quidnose posted:You dismissed TNL's point and my previous casework as irrelevant because "as scum he would have motives to miscuddle town anyway." Oh c'mon. Anyone can now hopefully see how ridiculous you are being.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:14
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Murmur Twin posted:...and I agree with him. I feel like the language you use is indicative of trying to convince people that Jimson is scum, not of trying to make a good-faith effort to figure out his alignment. Even if that's not what's going on, I can't believe you can't believe that someone might dare to case you on it which makes me think he's onto something. Townies are supposed to try and convince people that the players they are suspicious of are scum. My impression is that Quidnose had already made his good-faith effort to figure out Jimson's alignment long before that post on page 24, and had concluded he was scum.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:17
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King Burgundy posted:I don't really agree with this. My cases are never twists. Most town players wouldn't because we all like to think we're ~objective~ and open-minded. The reality is that once players have a strong read they will see the game in terms that fit that read unless events change drastically.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:25
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The Ninth Layer posted:Townies are supposed to try and convince people that the players they are suspicious of are scum. My impression is that Quidnose had already made his good-faith effort to figure out Jimson's alignment long before that post on page 24, and had concluded he was scum. And once you've decided someone is scum your mission as town is to twist everything non scummy they say into being scummy? Smart players should be reevaluating things constantly based on new information IMHO.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:25
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King Burgundy posted:And once you've decided someone is scum your mission as town is to twist everything non scummy they say into being scummy? Once I decide someone is scummy I will do everything in my power to convince others they are worth voting for, yes.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:28
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The Ninth Layer posted:Once I decide someone is scummy I will do everything in my power to convince others they are worth voting for, yes. ROFL. OK then. Agree to disagree.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:30
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I mean, I don't think you've been particularly open to what Quid has said in his defense. I think you've done some "word twisting" by claiming it was obvious he wanted to lynch a power role. You've got your read of him as scum and so you're interpreting what he says through the lens of him fending off your suspicion of him. Does that make you scum? You tell me.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:32
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Murmur Twin posted:Theory: the Man's Club is the scumteam lynch all lurkers. The irony of your statement is that you ask me a question about my top read and then make comment about how an easy case can be made without actually making one. I didn't really have time to read this game, so I apologize for bailing on it. I have midsemester exams coming up, and it led me to having to prioritize differently. I thought Jimson was scum, oh well.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:38
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Murmur Twin posted:I went to go case Lumpen but find constructing anything out of his posts to be really difficult, which in turn makes me wonder if that's a strategy. Are Lumpen Lists still a thing? Question? You picked a player you wanted to lynch, and then went looking through their post history for evidence? That doesn't seem very towny.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:39
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kordansk posted:Question? You picked a player you wanted to lynch, and then went looking through their post history for evidence? That doesn't seem very towny. ##vote murmur twin
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Mar 23, 2016 01:42
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kordansk posted:Question? You picked a player you wanted to lynch, and then went looking through their post history for evidence? That doesn't seem very towny. I'm not town!  And it's more that my process involves reading people's posts in a vacuum and casing based on my impression of them. In the case of both Lumpen and Jake I had town reads on them but in retrospect couldn't identify why, so I went back and re-checked and ended up finding points I wanted to raise.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:44
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The Ninth Layer posted:I mean, I don't think you've been particularly open to what Quid has said in his defense. I think you've done some "word twisting" by claiming it was obvious he wanted to lynch a power role. You've got your read of him as scum and so you're interpreting what he says through the lens of him fending off your suspicion of him. Does that make you scum? You tell me. I don't think I am. I never said his words make it clear that was his motivation. I just described a reason he would feel the need to twist words like that. IMHO if you think I'm twisting things he says instead of vice versa you should vote for me.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:44
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kordansk posted:##vote murmur twin ##vote kordansk Literally an OMGUS.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:45
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