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I want Henry to invent Tetris.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:24
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TheCenturion posted:I wonder if a "The Russians" spinoff could be pulled off in a way that didn't suck. Cardinal of the Kremlin basically. I read a Frederick Forsyth novel that picked up on Kim Philby's life after he moved to the USSR and basically made him into a cartoon villain hatching a plot to push Britain to the far left in the 80's by staging a nuclear incident at an American air force base, only to have his scheme foiled by some jealous faction in the KGB. It wasn't very good.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:28
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LOL at any Kilby novels that aren't Declare by Tim Powers.
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Jun 10, 2016 17:31
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So, now that we're post season, anyone have any thoughts / speculation on the series or its denouement over the next two years? Personally, I don't see the series winding up with a brutal or tragic conclusion; the overall tone just seems a little off for that. This is not Breaking Bad. So I don't see Philip and/or Elizabeth being killed or imprisoned, even though those would, in the abstract, be perfectly plausible outcomes. I also would tend to think that going back to the Soviet Union (which can't occur anyway for most of the next two years, given the overall plot premise) isn't in the cards, since that would probably be a tragic conclusion for the children, who have never known anything but America (and maybe also for both Philip and Elizabeth). Philip has contemplated defection since literally the first episode, and Elizabeth has more recently reacted with alarm to suggestions about leaving the US. (Her outreach to Pastor Tim also struck me as at least partially genuine, and she seemed truly to regret her betrayal of Young Hee.) So my guess, which undoubtedly will be wildly off the mark: Season 5 - trying to evade discovery and ultimately failing; and willingly or unwillingly becoming double agents, an extremely difficult and dangerous position for them to be in. Season 6 - trying to manage both sides, nearly or actually failing and needing to be resettled in the US.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:33
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Yeah, that's the plot arc that I sort of envision, and I think want  Stan is so close to the family that I see them working it out between them, one way or another.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:44
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Annual Prophet posted:Season 5 - trying to evade discovery and ultimately failing; and willingly or unwillingly becoming double agents, an extremely difficult and dangerous position for them to be in. I think that is a pretty good direction actually. Sort of Len Deighton. Also while I don't think they'll do it, it would be interesting if they were simply, eventually, arrested and deported amid a big media scandal. it would kind of make sense since that's what happened with the actual illegals program the show is based on though obviously it would have very different repercussions had that happened during the 80's
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Jun 10, 2016 19:48
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Even Elizabeth is starting to show signs of disaffection. When she was talking to Phillip about their home town, and was wondering if it would be really different now, his bleak 'no, it won't be' seemed to really hit her. When his kid gets there and tells tales about how bad the USSR has gotten, it might just get worse for her. She's been away for twenty years, after all, and the 'worker's paradise' has devolved into kleptocracy, the nomenklatura, high officials with their Zil limousines, imported Blaupunkt appliances and other bourgeois trappings, no real progress being made, and so on. As for future plot twists: Maybe Paige will wind up killing, or attempting to kill Stan or his son that she's currently trying to co-opt because they find out the secret and she's getting awful screwed up. Maybe they'll just keep bumbling along. Maybe they'll get a mission to do something horrible, and Philip will turn State's Evidence against Elizabeth in exchange for him and the kids getting to stay in the States. Then we'll get a montage through the years of Elizabeth, stuck in the USSR, life sucks, while Phillip and the kids keep on being American. Maybe they even repatriate Martha. Maybe they'll make it all the way through to the 90s, and Elizabeth will kill herself when World Socialism fails. Maybe they'll go back to Russia after the USSR dissolves, and become crime lords. Nah, the final scene should be set in 2013, with P&E sitting down to watch this new show called 'The Americans.' The grandkids say that it all sounds pretty unrealistic, and P&E and Paige all share a look. Or maybe Stan's over too. Stan mentions that before he retired, he used to do this kind of stuff. P&E look at each other, and Phillip, with that eyes looking up but still hangdog expression says 'Stan, there's...something we never told you.'
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Jun 10, 2016 20:13
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TheCenturion posted:I wonder if a "The Russians" spinoff could be pulled off in a way that didn't suck. Cardinal of the Kremlin basically. Not the same but Deutschland '83 (2015) is pretty good. East vs West Germany & NATO type stuff and briefly covers some things this season of The Americans left out, KAL007, Able Archer etc.
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Jun 10, 2016 20:21
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I'm pretty  about the way this show wraps up. As much as I didn't like the ending of another tv show Boardwalk Empire for doing a (selective) moral universe heavy-handed karmic punishment ending, I'll be pretty irritated if the Jennings walk away scot-free with no burdens but their conscience. On the other hand, their family has been such an integral component of the show that it would be pretty awful to see them permanently torn apart too, so it seems like a tough balance to try to strike. What I'm looking forward to (but also dreading) is to see how they handle Stan finding out, since he's going to be loving devastated both personally and professionally. Seeing how giddy he was about Matthew and Paige was both hugely endearing since he's such a goofball and is pretty brutal in the context of how betrayed he's going to ultimately feel.
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Jun 10, 2016 21:41
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Season 6: The Jennings have a Family Meeting!
mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jun 10, 2016 |
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Jun 10, 2016 22:08
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What id Beeman finds out and he helps them?
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Jun 10, 2016 22:18
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cheerfullydrab posted:No. No more Martha. Ever. Martha will return.
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Jun 10, 2016 22:36
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Regy Rusty posted:Martha will return. Source?
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Jun 10, 2016 23:41
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drunkill posted:Not the same but Deutschland '83 (2015) is pretty good. East vs West Germany & NATO type stuff and briefly covers some things this season of The Americans left out, KAL007, Able Archer etc. Deutschland 83 is fantastic and everyone should watch it.
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Jun 11, 2016 01:05
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Deutschland 83 owns, and can get away woth a lot more stuff than FX regarding sex and nudity and violence. Stunning lack of wigs on that show, though. That's the only downside.
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Jun 11, 2016 01:08
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drunkill posted:Not the same but Deutschland '83 (2015) is pretty good. East vs West Germany & NATO type stuff and briefly covers some things this season of The Americans left out, KAL007, Able Archer etc. Cool, I'll look it up.
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Jun 11, 2016 01:27
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It probably won't happen since it would take a 7 year time skip but it would be really interesting too see how they would react to the Berlin Wall coming down or the dissolution of the USSR. Would they just be stuck in America? Actually become travel agents with no snooping,murdering, kidnapping and espionage? What would Phillip do if all the things he hated doing were for nothing? Would Elizabeth soldier on?
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Jun 11, 2016 01:35
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I think the real illegals just started taking orders and cash from the FSB.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:06
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Your Gay Uncle posted:It probably won't happen since it would take a 7 year time skip but it would be really interesting too see how they would react to the Berlin Wall coming down or the dissolution of the USSR. Would they just be stuck in America? Actually become travel agents with no snooping,murdering, kidnapping and espionage? What would Phillip do if all the things he hated doing were for nothing? Would Elizabeth soldier on? The KGB kinda split into the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) and the Federal Counterintelligence Service(FSK) after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Later on, the FSK reformed into the Federal Security Service(FSB) but the SVR still remains and is the foreign arm of things, think of how the CIA is only supposed to conduct operations in foreign territories.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:11
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Subterfrugal posted:I think the real illegals just started taking orders and cash from the FSB. According to Hanssen's debrief, the fall of communism led to the exchanges between him and his handlers becoming far less cordial. I believe the terminology he used was 'cold and businesslike.'
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Jun 11, 2016 02:45
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Im tired of the whole tragic ending thing already. Just give me Arkady and Oleg stationed in some tropical outpost, Martha in Russia banging some dude who looks like Phillip and the last scene being Stan coming over for dinner and everyones happy.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:26
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I'm shocked that people thought the finale wasn't big enough. William's dead, leaks to Stan that the male and female spies they've hunted are married and have kids. All of Elizabeth's horrible actions with Young Hee were for nothing, further fracturing her. Tatiana's running the Rezidentura, Arkady is certainly gone, Oleg has made plans to return to Russia (lord knows if he'll still be in the show). Paige is going to be trained to defend herself, and clash with her Father over whether to date Matthew. And Phillip and Elizabeth now have to grapple with the reality that the Centre tells them to return, just as Phillip's son will arrive and tell them how spectacularly hosed the USSR is. That's HUGE. (Also, I know I asked earlier, but did Arkady directly send the KGB to Gaad? Or was he just aware of it?) As for speculation, The Slate Podcast had a great interview with a real former KGB spy. He was finally "caught" years after the USSR had crumbled. The FBI set up a fake traffic stop and interrogated him. The spy started with "What took you so long?" They pumped him for information and then let him stay in America. Though I'm sure the show will extract a price in blood, I foresee an ending closer to the above.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:02
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Narcissus1916 posted:(Also, I know I asked earlier, but did Arkady directly send the KGB to Gaad? Or was he just aware of it?) Phillip told his superiors where Gaad was vacationing so any decision to approach him would have been authorized by Arkady at the very least
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Jun 11, 2016 06:06
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DarklyDreaming posted:Phillip told his superiors where Gaad was vacationing so any decision to approach him would have been authorized by Arkady at the very least It probably went through Tatiana, with Arkady maybe being passively aware of the cable. It sounds as if Directorate S is run by ~The Center~ with the rezidentura knowing as little about them as possible for plausibility of denial.
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Jun 11, 2016 06:33
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It probably went through Tatiana, with Arkady maybe being passively aware of the cable. It sounds as if Directorate S is run by ~The Center~ with the rezidentura knowing as little about them as possible for plausibility of denial. It wasn't necessarily Directorate S who approached Gaad
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Jun 11, 2016 11:00
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Earwicker posted:It wasn't necessarily Directorate S who approached Gaad Wasn't implying that it was - just that it was Directorate S that provided the information to the Bangkok station flunkies who hosed up the recruiting attempt.
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Jun 11, 2016 11:05
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Is Aderholt the most competent agent in the FBI? Imagine how good Beeman could be if he put himself together.
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Jun 11, 2016 12:49
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I didn't like Deutschland 83, the main character screws up all the time and is saved by a deus ex machina almost every episode. In comparison in The Americans we see how meticulous and careful Mathew and Elizabeth always are because they know even a tiny slip up can be disastrous. I know the main character in Deutschland 83 isn't a trained spy but a lot of it ended up seeming like just sloppy writing. Some things I remember off the top of my head, the random Chinese spy that attacks him for no reason but happens to provide a perfect cover to explain who stole the disk, him being overheard on an western general's phone calling his East German girlfriend and saying he was an East German spy but nobody believing her, his contact finding him running over the runaway secretary in the middle of the woods at the perfect moment, him easily escaping a military compound after admitting he was an East German spy
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Jun 11, 2016 13:40
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I’m not done with ’schland and will continue to watch it, but yeah, it gets a little silly.
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Jun 11, 2016 13:56
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Platystemon posted:Is Aderholt the most competent agent in the FBI? "would you like a Coke?"
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Jun 11, 2016 16:03
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Earwicker posted:"would you like a Coke?" Incompetent jack rear end. You offer a dying person Pepsi.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:06
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cheerfullydrab posted:Source? My heart guides me Regy Rusty posted:Martha will be the sole survivor of the whole show
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Jun 11, 2016 17:20
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Just binged my way through this show, really loving it. Having to wait for season five is going to be killer, but from what I've seen, it'll be worth it. One thing that does bother me is the sudden inclusion of Philip's other son. The whole thing seemed a bit off, and I really don't have any idea how they're going to plausibly connect him with the rest of the cast. Getting out of Siberian character purgatory with the Residentura rejects was nice, I'm hoping we don't have to deal with that again. All that said, I'm hoping Martha got shoved out of that plane on the way to Moscow
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Jun 11, 2016 17:32
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Yeah the stuff with his son, despite a lot of talk about him a few seasons back, just came out of nowhere. The writers actually say in the AVC interview that it's one of the elements that wasn't planned far in advance, and tbh it feels like it was edited in at the last minute. Not sure what made them decide to drop this now rather than take a bit more time to do it in S5 premiere.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:09
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mobby_6kl posted:Yeah the stuff with his son, despite a lot of talk about him a few seasons back, just came out of nowhere. The writers actually say in the AVC interview that it's one of the elements that wasn't planned far in advance, and tbh it feels like it was edited in at the last minute. Not sure what made them decide to drop this now rather than take a bit more time to do it in S5 premiere. Eh makes sense. They know they have two more seasons, so this is all about setting up. There's no big cliffhanger or crisis, just a lot of hooks.
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Jun 11, 2016 19:20
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MariusLecter posted:Incompetent jack rear end. Jesus Christ, you're a monster
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Jun 11, 2016 23:14
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our-parents-were-russian-spies-tim-alex-foley Showrunners for The Americans recommended this article. You can see why.
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Jun 12, 2016 00:24
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I can see why they did it a month ago.
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Jun 12, 2016 00:27
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Just binged my way through this show, really loving it. Having to wait for season five is going to be killer, but from what I've seen, it'll be worth it. One thing that does bother me is the sudden inclusion of Philip's other son. The whole thing seemed a bit off, and I really don't have any idea how they're going to plausibly connect him with the rest of the cast. Getting out of Siberian character purgatory with the Residentura rejects was nice, I'm hoping we don't have to deal with that again. I'm not very excited about the Mischa plotline either, but I'm willing to see where it goes. I just hope they don't use it to divide Philip and Elizabeth again, because I feel like we've been down that road enough times (which the show played with very successfully this season by having them at each other's throats for only half an episode before hitting the big reset button), maybe barring one last split just before or at the end. Worst case scenario, at least we know the show isn't above more or less abandoning plots that aren't working, since Kimmie only had one scene this season. That's one time with a tv show where I don't blame them at all for copping out. Once Martha bolted and caused problems for them, I thought for sure there was no way she was going to make it to Moscow, but I seriously doubt they'd do that off camera. Killing Nina probably meant Martha had to live so it wouldn't be too similar. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jun 12, 2016 |
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Jun 12, 2016 00:32
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Sinteres posted:I'm not very excited about the Mischa plotline either, but I'm willing to see where it goes. I just hope they don't use it to divide Philip and Elizabeth again, because I feel like we've been down that road enough times, maybe barring one last split just before or at the end. Worst case scenario, at least we know the show isn't above more or less abandoning plots that aren't working, since Kimmie only had one scene this season. That's one time with a tv show where I don't blame them at all for copping out. I'm definitely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Right now I'm thinking Mischa might have been one of Oleg's brother's war buddies, maybe they'll ending up meeting and helping each other out. With Martha, I could honestly see her killing herself once she's spent enough time in Russia to realize that she'll never fit in, never see Philip or her parents again, and never escape.
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Jun 12, 2016 00:45
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