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Do you have classmates or former coworkers who work in the private sector and you're close enough to to ask? That's the only real way I've gotten a sense of things like that.
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May 21, 2016 16:34
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I do have some numbers from former classmates, as well as some information from a former employer. Just looking to supplement that. Especially since I'm thinking about relocating to a different part of the country, whereas most of my information is central to one state.
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May 21, 2016 16:52
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GordonComstock posted:I do have some numbers from former classmates, as well as some information from a former employer. Just looking to supplement that. Especially since I'm thinking about relocating to a different part of the country, whereas most of my information is central to one state.
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May 21, 2016 22:37
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Subset of Civil, Water/Wastewater/Water Resources. Colorado (greater Denver area) or Texas (Dallas or Austin) for locations. The Denver area would seem to be particularly competitive in water/wastewater since at least one major company is HQ there, with big operations for a bunch of other civil firms. I can relocate to each area as I know people who will put me up while I look, and I'm trying to gauge my best way to go about it. Failing that, I want to leverage my experience at my current firm where my salary is lower than average.
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May 22, 2016 00:32
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This might help? https://www.asme.org/getmedia/788e990f-99f5-4062-801c-d2ef0586b52d/32673_Engineering_Income_Salary_Survey.aspx
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May 22, 2016 13:20
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Any advice here for negotiating a salary right out of an MS program? I got an offer from a company I'm super excited about and this will be my first "big girl" job. I really have no experience in the field, but I guess they like me. Since I'm a student and my money comes from the GI Bill, I don't really have the leverage of "this is how much I'm worth".
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May 25, 2016 23:27
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compshateme85 posted:Any advice here for negotiating a salary right out of an MS program? I got an offer from a company I'm super excited about and this will be my first "big girl" job. I really have no experience in the field, but I guess they like me. Since I'm a student and my money comes from the GI Bill, I don't really have the leverage of "this is how much I'm worth".
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May 26, 2016 00:31
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Are there any guidelines for negotiating if you have multiple offers without a strong preference between them? I'm assuming you want to mention that you have a better offer to improve your BATNA and get them to offer more. Is there a limit to how many times you can come back to the company asking for more because of a better offer? It seems like people would get annoyed or is this just expected?
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May 26, 2016 01:46
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asur posted:Are there any guidelines for negotiating if you have multiple offers without a strong preference between them? I'm assuming you want to mention that you have a better offer to improve your BATNA and get them to offer more. Is there a limit to how many times you can come back to the company asking for more because of a better offer? It seems like people would get annoyed or is this just expected? Mentioning other offers isn't necessary as a rule especially if you do not have a better to show them, but only other potential options that could be worth more. For example: Company: 50k. Asur: 70k. Company: 60k. Asur: 70k is commensurate with other offers I have seen and I am afraid it is firm. OR Asur: 70k is the number. It sounds the same to me as the company. In either case if the person at the company wants you and can get to that number they'll get there. Sometimes you hear "we can't get there without a competing offer." This is them calling your bluff and turning over the other offer doesn't guarantee they will match it. On going back and asking for more: do not do this. You are a professional who knows what they are worth and has already provided that number. Presumably you have already gone back and forth a few times so you are meeting some number between your open and the company's open. Trying to shift the upper end is poor form. What do you do when you are negotiating (or finished negotiating) and a better offer comes in? This is the same thing as dealing with your current employer. I am assuming you will/can have documents signed before you deal with the latest offer. What do you do if you asked for 80k and another offer comes in an hour later at 90k? Ask the latest (90k) company for 100k and take it when they say 95k. E: Forgot the first question. For identical offers: counter offer = single offer counter * (1 + M*(n-1)). n is offer number and M can be whatever your risk tolerance is. 0.1 might be mine, others in this thread would say more. So the first offer gets what you'd ask of only one company. The second gets 1+M. The third gets 1+2M and so on. Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 05:39 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 05:16
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Yeah, it's not so much that you literally show them the other offer or even necessarily bring it up as a specific issue. It's just that other offers that you are actually willing to take give you confidence in asking for a high number and sticking to it, knowing that if you don't get what you want you walk. poo poo, in my experience I've gotten better "final" offers after I earnestly declined. If you're actually willing to put your money where you mouth is an walk away you are in such a stronger position. Guinness fucked around with this message at 05:47 on May 26, 2016 |
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May 26, 2016 05:44
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asur posted:Are there any guidelines for negotiating if you have multiple offers without a strong preference between them? I'm assuming you want to mention that you have a better offer to improve your BATNA and get them to offer more. Is there a limit to how many times you can come back to the company asking for more because of a better offer? It seems like people would get annoyed or is this just expected? FWIW, as a hiring manager, I assume anyone that's awesome enough for me to consider hiring is awesome enough to have multiple offers. When they counter my initial offer, I assume it's because they could make more money elsewhere and counter back according.
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May 27, 2016 04:00
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I am graduating with a Bsc in chemical engineering in a few weeks. I have 2 internships, 1 research project that I presented at a national conference, have club leadership experience, and have a GPA of 3.2. I have just received a job offer in the pharmaceutical industry in the east bay area in CA. The offer is $65000 with good benefits, great vacation/pto and great 401k. This value agrees with the middle of the range from the companys glass door page and some of the reviews say that the company does not negotiate. I like the benefits and I really like the company. I am interviewing at another company in an unrelated field and am waiting to hear if I move further in the process for a third company, also in an unrelated field. Does anyone know what a competitive offer in this industry/location would look like? Is this an offer/situation that I should negotiate?
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May 27, 2016 06:38
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From what I have seen/heard, offers for first jobs out of college are much harder to negotiate up. Typically the best you can hope for is a higher signing bonus. 65k was about what I started at 7 years ago as a ChemE straight out of college, altho that was in the Midwest. When I recently took a job in the east bay the salary bump was about 20-30% from what I was making in the Midwest. Different industry though so the actual numbers might not be applicable to you.
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May 27, 2016 18:48
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Never Not Negotiate. Worst that happens is they say 'no' and you're left with an offer that it sounds like you'd be ok with anyways. If you're in the middle of the band for them as you say, ask for the top of their band. I'd also look at similar companies, or even different companies that have similar jobs and make sure they're not just a serial underpayer, then base your counteroffer on that.
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May 27, 2016 20:55
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quote:I am graduating with a Bsc in chemical engineering in a few weeks. I have 2 internships, 1 research project that I presented at a national conference, have club leadership experience, and have a GPA of 3.2. I started 8 years ago in pharma with a master's degree and no relevant internships at $67,000. You are going to start in a much more expensive area than I did for $3,000 below the national average for the average Engineer I level role. Per 142 salary reports in the bay area for "Engineer I", the average is around $82K with a range of $70K-90K reported. Not the most reliable metric, of course, but it's pretty close to what I expected honestly. If you like the job, PTO and company and can make it work in that expensive of an area, it could be worth it to take at that salary for a foot in the door, industry-wise. You'll make way the hell more once you job-hop once or twice. Whether it's worth it or not is up to you. It's tough to negotiate upward on entry offers, but there's no point not trying, especially if relo is involved. Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 27, 2016 |
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May 27, 2016 21:17
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Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I have had a few things on the offer clarified. The positions is that of an entry level process engineer. I would be designing pharmaceutical manufacturing processes. The top of the range that is listed on glassdoor is 77k, I was offered 65k, but would it be outrageous to ask for 80k? What type of information should I include in a counteroffer? Hi HR person, Thank you for clarifying all of the details with me. It is important to me that I understand everything before I make a decision. I am interested and excited about this position. However, I am concerned about the salary offer and the cost of living in the bay area. I was looking for $80,000 which is $3,077 bi-weekly. Thank you, Hotbod
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May 28, 2016 01:16
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Same general focus, even!  (If you're doing solid oral dose process design and ever have any questions, please feel free to PM me. I'm in process and formulation development.  ) Knowing the process focus now, I'd say that $70-75K for that is pretty standard on the east coast for entry-level in that specialization. I can't vouch for the west coast, though.
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May 28, 2016 01:24
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Hotbod Handsomeface posted:I am graduating with a Bsc in chemical engineering in a few weeks. I have 2 internships, 1 research project that I presented at a national conference, have club leadership experience, and have a GPA of 3.2.
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May 28, 2016 03:39
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Remove the biweekly part and it would be better to focus on value you add as the manager doesn't care about cost of living if he can get someone for that salary.
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May 28, 2016 04:57
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Hotbod Handsomeface posted:I am graduating with a Bsc in chemical engineering in a few weeks. I have 2 internships, 1 research project that I presented at a national conference, have club leadership experience, and have a GPA of 3.2.
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May 28, 2016 17:05
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I'm wondering what people think the liabilities for revealing some information of a competing offer during negotiations are. If you hand them the offer letter they can be lovely and try to tank your alternatives by doing something bizarre with the company issuing the competing offer, but discussing other offers and their compensation packages grounds the discussion in the reality of the labor market.
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May 31, 2016 15:21
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I'm wondering what people think the liabilities for revealing some information of a competing offer during negotiations are. You could redact the name of the competitor on the offer letter, but I think the real answer is that if you're afraid your current employer might pull something like this, you'd be a fool to stay with them anyway, even for more money.
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May 31, 2016 16:52
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I would never show an interviewer another company's offer letter on principle. If I say I have an offer, I have an offer, asking for proof beyond that tells me a lot more about you than it tells you about me.
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May 31, 2016 17:12
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I would never show an interviewer another company's offer letter on principle. If I say I have an offer, I have an offer, asking for proof beyond that tells me a lot more about you than it tells you about me. This. If you say you've got another offer and they don't believe you or demand proof, then you're basically in one of two situations. Either they didn't think you were serious, or you were bluffing. If they didn't think you were serious, take the offer and leave, good riddance to them. If you were bluffing, well... they called your bluff and you just lost.
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May 31, 2016 19:11
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If I were in a position where I needed to bluff like that, I probably would still hear them out. I'd just still give the same firm answer - no, that's confidential between the other company and I, it's not something I feel comfortable sharing, etc. It's still a black mark against the company in my eyes but I get that finding work can be hard and I might not throw that one back immediately, especially if they had a point given that I was bluffing.
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May 31, 2016 19:19
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Ok so I countered at 75 and they got back to me saying that 65 was the max. Totally cordial and professional. I am ok with this offer and I think that the experience is worth it so I'll take it, relocate and reevaluate where I am at in 2 years. The benefits are also better by a high margin than my peers. I feel good that I tried. I now just need to accept the original offer and say how excited I am to be doing this. Thanks for the input everyone. I also learned about one of my peers being offered 52k as an entry level cheme in southern California, which I think is very low.
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May 31, 2016 21:51
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Hotbod Handsomeface posted:Ok so I countered at 75 and they got back to me saying that 65 was the max. Totally cordial and professional. I am ok with this offer and I think that the experience is worth it so I'll take it, relocate and reevaluate where I am at in 2 years. The benefits are also better by a high margin than my peers. I feel good that I tried. Glad that you're okay with it. $52K anywhere in California is hilariously, almost insultingly low for a ChemE unless he's gotten stuck in academia. That being said, first year / entry-level people get hosed hard all the time in the sciences, so as long as he's willing to jump ship in a few years, he'll make way more on the second role. Good luck!
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Jun 1, 2016 03:23
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I would never show an interviewer another company's offer letter on principle. If I say I have an offer, I have an offer, asking for proof beyond that tells me a lot more about you than it tells you about me. I tend to agree if you're interviewing for a new job. Just as a data point for a different situation, my employer requires a non-redacted copy of the offer letter from the potential employer if they're going to match it to keep you.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:43
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antiga posted:I tend to agree if you're interviewing for a new job. Just as a data point for a different situation, my employer requires a non-redacted copy of the offer letter from the potential employer if they're going to match it to keep you.
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Jun 1, 2016 19:53
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this is a very useful post on negotiating offers: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/ it says podcast but they transcribe the whole thing if you prefer to read
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Jun 3, 2016 21:29
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Sundae posted:Glad that you're okay with it. Entry level ChemE in California seems to be insanely difficult to find anything in recently. Am graduating this week and probably 90% of the class hasn't gotten offers yet.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:31
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Sunny Side Up fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Jun 7, 2016 15:09
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I was just offered a job and I asked for 10k over their initial offer, and I ended up with 6k more. I probably would have been too scared to ask/not even thought to ask if it weren't for this thread, so thanks!
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Jun 11, 2016 00:32
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Jun 11, 2016 04:46
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Big City Drinkin posted:I was just offered a job and I asked for 10k over their initial offer, and I ended up with 6k more. I probably would have been too scared to ask/not even thought to ask if it weren't for this thread, so thanks!
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Jun 11, 2016 16:57
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Big City Drinkin posted:I was just offered a job and I asked for 10k over their initial offer, and I ended up with 6k more. I probably would have been too scared to ask/not even thought to ask if it weren't for this thread, so thanks! I encourage you to share your deets on the sheets 
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Jun 13, 2016 15:20
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I posted at the end of the last thread regarding negotiating for equity, and ended up with an offer with warrants/stocks as a bonus model. However, after meeting with the CEO I declined because it didn't feel like we would get along  . He wanted "someone I can tell to increase conversion rates 5%" which seems more like a scape goat to blame once things goes down the shitter. So here we are again. Short backstory: I have ~6 years of experience in management consulting (MBB equivalent) and even though I'm still happy with my current job, I've obviously been looking into other opportunities. Since last I've kept interviewing and over the last 3 weeks I have received three offers. One of them were postponed for a year, while I declined the second and accepted the last. Negotiations went according to the BFC-approved tactics, and the third offer has 10% more total compensation compared to my current position with (hopefully) less hours to boot. But here's where things go south. The position I have been interviewing for all along was Head of Strategy at a decently sized company, where I would refer to EVP-level and have 2 direct reports of my own. There was a similar open position for the role as Head of Business Development and I could pretty much choose between the two. However, I just received the contract with the title "Business Development Manager" which, at least to me, is something completely different  . I called the EVP and asked what was up, and his explanation was that the previous titles were too confusing (what?) and that this is an attempt at streamlining things a bit more. He sees the new position(s) as 2 Business Dev Managers, with 4-5 business developers as reports. Everything else is unchanged, but I feel like they went behind my back and used a fancy job title to lure me in, well-knowing that it was going to be changed. Had they approached me initially with the new title, I would probably have declined in the first place. They are very insistent that nothing has changed, but I asked who would be Head of Strategy and the EVP claims that its his responsibility. However, the two people currently holding the positions are titled "Head of Strategy" and "Head of Business Development" on LinkedIn, soooo Please tell me if I'm being a big dumb baby, thanks.
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Jun 13, 2016 18:28
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Aurochs posted:I posted at the end of the last thread regarding negotiating for equity, and ended up with an offer with warrants/stocks as a bonus model. However, after meeting with the CEO I declined because it didn't feel like we would get along You have to decide how much the title is worth. Head of X sounds more impressive than Y Manager, even if the responsibilities are the same. The case for pushing on it: - You interviewed for one thing and were offered something different. - That title could have a long term impact on your earning potential over your career. The case for not pushing on it: - You actual compensation is the same either way. - Complaining about it will be ridiculous if you aren't willing to walk over it. Frankly I'd come down to that last point. If you're ready to tank the negotiation and tell him to get stuffed, then you could use it as a point of leverage, but you better have a solid argument worked out ahead of time and a goal in mind. Something like "Business Development Manager is a less valuable job title for my career than is Head of Strategy. I would not have even interviewed with you if you had been open about this change when soliciting for the position. I want ($X dollars / Y days vacation / Z reports) to compensate."
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Jun 13, 2016 21:02
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You have to decide how much the title is worth. Head of X sounds more impressive than Y Manager, even if the responsibilities are the same. Excellent points, and right now it's skewing towards pushing on it. Like I mentioned, I am happy with my current position, have fantastic colleagues and once I reach the next step (~6 months) my compensation will surpass the new offer anyway. Promotion is not a guaranteed deal, but my company is very transparent regarding which job levels get what compensation. It pretty much comes down to long term impact on earnings potential. A 'Head of X' position could be leveraged into way better positions in the future, whereas 'business development manager' is often bit of a catch-all title that can mean anything. I'm not really sure if they could offer me more compensation to stick around as BizDev Manager, so it's pretty much down to negotiating for a better title. It still feels like they sprung this on me out of nowhere (I had to call them after noticing it in the contract!), and that's kind of a red flag regarding their practices. They also mysteriously delayed the interview process ~1 month in the middle of it, which could also mean they had someone else who then declined, but that's just conjecture  Oh, and to complicate things further, the new workplace is a client of my current workplace so I can't be a total dickhead to them as it could cause some unwanted tension if I choose to stay.
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Jun 13, 2016 22:15
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Yeah no use speculating. I think you can manage it OK with the client relationship, just say hey the title was important to me, if we can't see eye to eye on that or have some compensation for that being removed of (X) then I appreciate the offer but am not interested. I think it's a fair position to hold.
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Jun 13, 2016 23:21
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