|
Excellent OP, Dwight. I want to add a common piece of advice from the old thread. If someone tries to punish you for negotiating, they are a shithead and you do not want to work for them or be associated with them. Not all positions are negotiable, but you should certainly treat them all as negotiable. Also, another common one that gets asked and answered often: Don't tell a recruiter your target salary. They get paid when they place you, and if they can convince you to take less money they are more likely to place you. Tell them that you will carefully consider the complete compensation package for each offer you receive, just like you would an employer directly. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 15, 2016 |
#
¿
Mar 15, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:This has probably been covered a hundred times over in the other thread but I don't remember ever seeing it within the past few months... why is this such a firm belief in SA when there's a lot of research that suggests anchoring (being the one to give a number first) could potentially be even better?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
poeticoddity posted:I would like to solicit some unusual negotiation advice in advance of when I may need it. Were you the guy who asked this same question a week ago in another thread? I can't remember. Anyway, I'll repeat my advice in case you're not. Keep a lab notebook/journal of your own projects and work. The company can't go after anything that's not work-related, and if you can show via your notebook that your ideas were invented on your own time, you will be golden. This is the primary reason for lab notebooks, even at large companies, btw. Also, suing a former employee is the nuclear option. Imagine how bad it would be for morale at a company to go after anything that wasn't a slam-dunk win for the company.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
kloa posted:Speaking of IP and such, does a company have grounds to go after you if you never signed any kind of waiver or something? If a company is so unsophisticated (in regard to legal stuff) as to not have any non-competes in place, I would wager that would be equally as unsophisticated when it came to protecting IP. I would not be willing to risk my career to test this hypothesis, though.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
Kalenn Istarion posted:Yeah there's no reason to lay a competing offer on the table in detail most of the time. Swenblack's approach is a bit more aggressive on that than many companies in my experience. I would definitely agree with you otherwise. Keep your cards (offers) close to your chest unless it's useful to play them. If you disclose too early, you've just anchored at your BATNA, which is a bad thing. As for lying, don't do it. Everyone has tells. And some people are very hard to bullshit. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Mar 21, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
If someone on my team came to me 6 months into their first job ever with a job offer hand demanding more money, I'd tell them to take it and most likely let them go on the spot. It takes at least that long to get up to speed at my job. If they're already shopping offers, they'll be gone sooner rather than later.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Ezekiel_980 posted:Goons,
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2016 03:12
|
|
|
Ezekiel_980 posted:I really just want to leave my current employer because of the toxic environment it has making something that is closer to what a masters level chemist should be making would be nice too. Haven't done the research yet but that is a excellent suggestion that i should have thought of in the first place. and this is a growing international pharma company. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 24, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2016 03:13
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:The worst, unlikely outcome is they pull their offer entirely, and then you are dodging a bullet, because if they pull offers they're also likely broken in other ways that make them intolerable to work with. I have also learned that when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:A few things: mastershakeman posted:Alternatively, a lot of job postings say to email with a salary requirement. Again, I start pretty high on this and say " plus benefits ". Is there a better way to phrase things? mastershakeman posted:And anecdotally, my wife gave the salary range answer when interviewing for the job she has, and they gave her the top of the range. Makes no sense.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
the talent deficit posted:i took a job at a startup a little over a year ago under the understanding the offer was below market but that i'd be given time for personal research projects and my salary would be adjusted to compensate after our series A
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
Gin_Rummy posted:Fair enough, but I mean, it's not like I'm looking for the job offer itself right now or today, but I just kind of figured some sort of "We will take this into consideration and get back to you soon" or a simple general acknowledgement of my email would be in order. As it stands now, for all I know my email got buried in a poo poo ton of others the dude received while he was out and now they're just sitting over there thinking "well, I guess he wasn't interested in the job. Onto the next candidate then!"
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 23:13
|
|
|
Deadite posted:Given my experience over the last two days: never try to negotiate and internal offer or expect a lecture from your HR rep If someone tries to punish you for negotiating, they are a shithead and you do not want anything to do with them. Reasonable people know that everything is negotiable. If they're firm and unwilling to negotiate, reasonable people won't try to punish you for attempting to negotiate. If you try to negotiate and get poo poo for it run, don't walk, away. You dodged a bullet. If they're asking you to do more, they should pay you more. gently caress getting paid in promises.
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
legsarerequired posted:Some conversations in my company lead me to believe there is a strong possibility that I am getting hired for an internal administrative position in a different department. This position is entry level with the same title as my current role. We have a Career Path Thread that you should post these questions in. legsarerequired posted:I also enjoy the people in the other department. There is a male co-worker in my current department who I no longer want to work with professionally--he's cussed me out twice this year, then felt awful when he realized the mistake was entirely on his end. He also has a weird habit of touching women after they've told him not to. I think he once incorrectly assumed that I reported him to HR (when really it could have been anyone who saw him touching a woman co-worker, who got cussed out by him, who heard his political opinions, etc) because he once hovered over my desk and said "You are not allowed to report me without talking to me" and walked off. Even though he's tried to touch me, I don't really trust corporate HR, so I've never reported him. legsarerequired posted:Again, career planning is really new to me, but how does salary negotiation go if you are changing jobs internally? If I receive the offer, do I have a case for requesting a 2% raise? We already received our annual cost-of-living increases at the beginning of the year.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
Not Grover posted:Not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask, but it seems right. My girlfriend and I both work in the same industry and are looking to relocate. We interviewed this week at competing companies in the city we would like to move to, and both got offers. Because it's a little of a niche industry and kind of a small world, so to speak, my potential employer knows my girlfriend interviewed at the other company. I actually interviewed at two locations owned by the same person; one is specialty and one is more generalized (and in another town ~20-30 mins away). I'm more interested in the specialty place, and today received an email back with an offer, with the caveat that the owner would prefer that I not work in the specialty office if my girlfriend is going to work for the competitor (conflict of interest?). I kind of get it, but it also kind of seems like bullshit to me. I am going to sleep on it before I respond, but as I've never been in this situation, I thought I'd get some more perspective. Thoughts?
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2016 02:06
|
|
|
Gin_Rummy posted:This would have been my next step, but I interviewed with like four different potential hiring managers of varying departments. My "we are gonna offer you" email was so vague that they didn't really specify who or what department I was really being offered by.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
GordonComstock posted:I do have some numbers from former classmates, as well as some information from a former employer. Just looking to supplement that. Especially since I'm thinking about relocating to a different part of the country, whereas most of my information is central to one state.
|
|
#
¿
May 21, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
This might help? https://www.asme.org/getmedia/788e990f-99f5-4062-801c-d2ef0586b52d/32673_Engineering_Income_Salary_Survey.aspx
|
|
#
¿
May 22, 2016 13:20
|
|
|
compshateme85 posted:Any advice here for negotiating a salary right out of an MS program? I got an offer from a company I'm super excited about and this will be my first "big girl" job. I really have no experience in the field, but I guess they like me. Since I'm a student and my money comes from the GI Bill, I don't really have the leverage of "this is how much I'm worth".
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Hotbod Handsomeface posted:I am graduating with a Bsc in chemical engineering in a few weeks. I have 2 internships, 1 research project that I presented at a national conference, have club leadership experience, and have a GPA of 3.2.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2016 17:05
|
|
|
Big City Drinkin posted:I was just offered a job and I asked for 10k over their initial offer, and I ended up with 6k more. I probably would have been too scared to ask/not even thought to ask if it weren't for this thread, so thanks!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 11, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
Gin_Rummy posted:Well, after the longest offer negotiation ever (seriously, does it always take three weeks from the verbal offer to finalize the details?), I have decided to turn down the job. Their salary offer was well below my minimum and they didn't even attempt to meet me in the middle from my initial ludicrous salary "expectation," nor would they budge on any of the benefits or perks. Pretty disappointing, overall. I've had good candidates take higher paying jobs elsewhere, and when they've provided that feedback, I've been grateful for it. And then I used that feedback to advocate for more budget room for future hires.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:The institution has a published salary grid. I fit a certain row based on the job I am applying for and that row has 9 columns from $xx,xxx through to $zz,zzz (technically $rr,rrr through $zz,zzz I suppose, but you get the point) and there is no column beyond $zz,zzz unless I move down another row (which I'm not even certain exists). Also, it rarely hurts to ask. But if there's a published pay scale and your qualifications are at the bottom end and you ask for the absolute max, it makes you look out of touch. Your most valuable negotiating strategy to know what you're worth.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 13, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:I disagree, under no circumstances should you accept additional responsibilities without additional compensation. A promise for a raise in 6 months is worth nothing, they will play the same game again when 6 months roll around until you grow a spine and put your foot down. Also, in some industries, it can be hard to break into management. You might consider taking the promotion without compensation to make the transition then going elsewhere to get paid.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
paradigmblue posted:Thank you all for your insight - you've convinced me that I do need to push back a bit on this before accepting the position. That being said, how reasonable are your managers? Would you get any blowback for negotiating?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 26, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
paradigmblue posted:My palms got sweaty and my heart raced just getting up the nerve to hit the "send" button. I'm terrible at being assertive, so this was really hard for me. We'll see what happens. Also, your degree gets you your first job. Every job after that is earned by your previous performance. Unless you're in academia or government.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 26, 2016 06:09
|
|
|
paradigmblue posted:Welp. Accept it and start looking.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:You have nothing to gain and everything to lose, and pretty much no leverage to achieve anything unless you are willing to lawyer up.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
Bitchkrieg posted:Update: Everything went better than anticipated.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2016 04:35
|
|
|
When you gave a range, did you phrase it as "Depending on benefits/total compensation...." Because that gives you a little wiggle-room to negotiate a bit more. Can you decline the offer and continue working on contract without facing consequences? If yes, then you can negotiate from a position of relative strength because your BATNA is status quo. But it could be that they were under the gun when you quoted a rate to them (or the person who accepted it was looking bay area rates and not Indiana rate), and now they want to reduce that expense. If that's the case, your position is pretty weak. They know you can't go somewhere else and make the same money. Either way, you're clearly talented at your job. Doing all the support tasks and doing them well so that engineers can be solely engineers is a valuable and rare skill. Engineers are notoriously stingy with sharing responsibility, and often reluctant to accept help. By the time you've worked for as long as you have (total career), the degree or lack-thereof is not a very big deal. Don't sell yourself short.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
solauran posted:In essence their position is that they prefer to reward outstanding performance rather than starting at a high salary. I'm assuming that this is a fairly common stance for a company to take during salary negotiation and may not be reflective of their actual approach to handling pay raises if I were to take the job. You're right. Everyone says this, but few companies actually do it. Don't get paid in promises. solauran posted:I'm still interested in the position as I feel it is a good opportunity to make the switch into software engineering, the work itself and the workplace culture sounds great, and it potentially involves an overseas relocation that would satisfy one of my career goals. So I would prefer to continue negotiating rather than walking. I see my options as being:
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
solauran posted:Thanks for the the advice all
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah that excerpt is referred to in the title but it's only really one little paragraph of the article. I think it's completely wrong even if the rest of the article is fine. I don't know what range offers are typically negotiated in, but at least in my industry, the margins the company has to make on an employee for them to be worth keeping are way higher than any typical salary negotiation could net anyone. I'm pretty skeptical that he actually knows someone who lost their job because they negotiated their salary too high - pretty sure they would have lost their job anyway if they weren't deemed competent enough for the role.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
rizuhbull posted:Thanks for the responses to my questions last page. Wanted to chime back in and say we agreed on a $1 raise. Was fairly painless, but more importantly, the experience of asking makes asking again in the future that much easier. I told a friend of mine and she said she's never asked. I was a bit shocked. I've also read however that women are less likely to ask for raises and that accounts for some of the reason why women are generally paid less for the same job. Obama signed link related a few years ago to combat this. But it got me thinking, what does this thread think of the taboo of not discussing wages with coworkers? Justified? None of anyone's business? A form of control? Meant to keep workers ignorant?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
MatildaTheHun posted:So I'm in an odd situation that's made researching salaries on the tough side. It's an internal hire for a new position at a non-profit (a huge, really profitable non-profit), and I pretty much all but have the job already. I strongly suspect I'm the only candidate, and given the bump in responsibilities, and going from part-time wage to full time salary, I think I'm due for a substantial pay bump. The trouble is I have no idea what a good target number is, and when I look for (get a load of this job title, by the way) 'Assistant Guest Experience Manager/Manager on Duty' I mostly find jobs that are for hotels and stores with something like 10-15 people under them, where I'd have, depending on the day, 25-100 people to supervise and 5k-15k guests daily, and additional work when I'm not the MOD. I'm more looking for tactical advice, I suppose I should just wait and listen to what number they throw out then go from there? Have you checked glassdoor.com yet?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2016 11:56
|
|
|
Guinness posted:This is pretty much exactly what you should do in this situation.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 30, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
creatine posted:So I am in this situation: Also, you may want to contact some staffing agencies to get some experience.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2016 12:53
|
|
|
johnny sack posted:I would appreciate feedback. Can you go from supervisor to senior engineer directly?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2017 13:54
|
|
|
johnny sack posted:I have supervised for about 1.5 years at a different company. Similar number of reports. Sounds more like a career path decision than a negotiation. Have you talked to your manager about the best path to become senior engineer? If that's your end goal, and your management is reasonable, then you should start from there and work backwards. Edit: Also, if it is going to take them 4+ months to fill the position, and you only want to be in it for 6 months, the higher-ups are probably going to be a bit miffed.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2017 14:33
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
Sleepytime posted:He said he didn't want everybody else threatening to quit or asking for raises.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2018 16:07
|
|