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Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

Mother cats are experts at taking care of kittens, and most of their kittens still die if I recall correctly. Youíre doing amazing at an impossible task and those kittens are having really good lives right now, regardless of how long they are. Cats live entirely in the present, so they donít remember past events (unless reminded in the present, like if they hear you come home or use the can opener) and donít think about the future.

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I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Thank yíall for all the kind words. Iím feeling a little better now. Mostly Iím trying to tell myself that the heating pad poo poo maybe didnít kill her, since there were two other kittens in the same box with her that are still doing fine and she was the only one having problems.



Now I have another question. None of the kittensí eyes have opened yet, and if my first estimation of their age was correct then theyíre about two weeks old now. If I remember right, kittens open their eyes at about 7 to 10 days of age. Which means that either mine are younger than I first thought, or I need to take them to the vet ASAP.

Are there any signs to look for that a kitten needs to go to the vet if their eyes arenít opening when they should? Or is there a way for me to better estimate their age myself, before I have the vet look at them?

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_w-vOR0TuE

If their eyes are still closed, they're less than two weeks old. There's no reason to worry about these babys' eyes for at least another week. Every feral colony is going to have its own inbreeding issues and some of those cause sudden death even when you're familiar with them. Keep up the good work with the other two.

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste


Also you probably know this but DO NOT try to open their eyes yourself, never ever. Eyeballs will come when they're ready, the only time you'd need to be worried is if you see like discharge or they look infected. I've watched a lot of kittens mature into peepers, and sometimes it can be 3-4 days between individual kittens who were born at the same time. They're ready when they're ready! Kittens are also deaf at this age, and will start to respond to sound some time after you get peepers. (Their vision is also total garbage even when they open for a few weeks.)

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

at this point pal, just keep doing what you are doing. the eyes will open when they open dont worry about that at all. just make sure to weigh them and that they are gaining weight. that will be your best sign of problems.

Tendai
Mar 16, 2007

"When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber."



Grimey Drawer

I. M. Gei posted:


Just angry

Angry and sad as gently caress and hoping to Christ that it wasn’t even slightly my fault
You are doing enormously kind work, and you gave her comfort and the chance that she might not have had otherwise. I'm so sorry that happened

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.





I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 01:39 on May 1, 2020

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

Good job friend

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




They havenít pooped for me in about 72 hours now.

I keep finding poop in their box every now and then, so I know theyíre pooping SOMEWHERE, but theyíre not pooping for me when I wipe them.

They are peeing though, pretty much every time I wipe them. And apart from the lack of poop, they seem to be doing fine. Theyíre both gaining adequate weight, theyíre both eating the right amount for their age (the one in the bottom pic INHALES his* formula every time I feed him*, heís* like a little furry Kirby ), and theyíre both acting normal as far as I can tell. Maybe I should try feeding them the pre-mixed liquid formula again a few times and see if that gets things moving?



* I think the kitten in the bottom pic is a male and the other one is a female, but I have no idea how to sex kittens. Iím just going off a written description of the differences between cat genitals that I read on some website.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Actually now that I think about it, the last time the kittens pooped when I wiped them was when I wiped them with a damp paper towel. I switched to using only tissues and cotton balls after that Kitten Lady video told me not to use paper towels, but they havenít pooped for me since I made that switch.

Should I wipe them with a paper towel? Like maybe a couple of times a day, and use cotton balls and tissues the rest of the time?

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

id wet them then wipe

Dixville
Nov 4, 2008

I HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS AND DID AN OOPS BUT YOU KNOW WHAT SHIT HAPPENS. ps tom brady is GOAT


Ham Wrangler

The trick with sexing is girls have very little space between anus and vulva, boys wiill have a space for the balls (when they descend). It's easier to tell side by side so harder if they are both one or the other.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




sneakyfrog posted:

id wet them then wipe

I already am.

... or rather, Iím starting by wiping them with dry cotton balls, and then wiping them again with wet ones.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Okay so by my count, these kittens have been in my care for 11 days now, so we know theyíre at least a week and a half old.

Are yíall SURE I donít need to take them to the vet if their eyes donít open in the next 2 or 3 days? Because weíve actually had cats born here that didnít have eyeballs at all, and Iím hoping these two arenít like that.



EDIT: They also still arenít pooping when I wipe them, and Iím seeing less poop in their box, so Iím wondering if theyíre pooping at all and if I should take them to the vet for that.

They appear to be fine apart from the eyes and the lack of poop, but I REALLY need one of you experts to chime in on whether either of those two things warrant a vet visit.

I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 21:01 on May 2, 2020

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

if they are gaining weight id let it ride for the moment pal.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Iíve decided Iíll wait until Tuesday morning to see if their eyes open before I take them to the vet. I might call the emergency vet tomorrow or Monday to make sure the pooping thing isnít a problem, but other than that I donít see anything that would indicate a medical emergency. Like I said, apart from the eyes and the poop, the kittens appear to be fine and behaving normally. Plus theyíre still eating and gaining weight.

I canít tell for sure... but I think itís possible that the striped kittenís eyes might be partially open. If they are, itís really hard to tell because the outlines around his eyes are black and any opening thatís there is very small. He seems to respond a little bit to visual stimuli though, so something may be happening there.

The plain gray kittenís eyes might be on their way to opening too, but they donít look to be as far along as the other oneís. Both of them squint their closed eyes quite a bit, so at the very least they seem to know how eyelids work, although I donít know if thatís significant or not.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




AND STUPID ME! I just remembered that one of my uncles is a vet! I can call him for advice if I have to.

Fighting Trousers
May 17, 2011

Does this excite you, girl?


I am extremely invested in your tiny kitten adventure, Gei.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Uncle Vet basically agreed that waiting until Tuesday morning to see a vet about the eyes is a good call. He also said that kittens actually open their eyes at 10 to 14 days old, and that the 7 to 10 days number was wrong, which...... make of that what you will.

He said the poop thing probably isnít an issue NOW, but that if the kittens havenít pooped by tomorrow then I should probably take them in to get their shits flushed out before it turns into something serious and possibly unfixable. Since I doubt theyíll poo poo by then, Iím planning on taking them to the vet tomorrow morning to do that. While Iím there Iíll go ahead and ask them to take a look at the kittiesí eyes to make sure nothing is wrong there.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




I GOT THE KITTENS* TO POOP




















* ............ one kitten. I got one of the kittens to poop**





** ... a single 1 cm-long poo poo-bean, and that was all. Further attempts to stimulate her rear end beyond that were unsuccessful.

The other kitten did not poop, despite me wiping him the same amount and in the same way as his sister, but still......... progress?



Also I donít know if this is important information, but these kittens HATE being potty-wiped, no matter how I do it, how I hold them to do it, what position I hold them in, what material(s) I use, what motion(s) I use, wet or dry, how hard, etc. Is that a common thing for kittens to hate having their toilets stroked to dump out, or am I doing it wrong?

ComicsandSlushies
Feb 22, 2013


In my experience they will never like it, I had to do it with my cat Oliver and he always hated it. I got lucky though and he was older than your kittens so I only had to do it a few times before he started going on his own.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Kitties are at the vet. Vet is gonna take a look at their eyes and see about the poop. I am nervous and paranoid that something is gonna happen, like theyíre gonna get hurt and die while theyíre there, or that the vet might tell me they need to be euthed today or something.

Also one of the kittensí eyes were definitely partway open this morning before I took them in. Like noticeably so. So thatís good.

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

lol my wife was like man you worry too much.

you are doing good.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




The kittens are back and they are both fine and very healthy and their eyes are now fully open!

Also the vet flushed out all of their shits. One of them didnít have any poo poo at all. The other one (they didnít tell me which one but it was almost definitely the bigger striped one that hasnít shitted in days) dumped out a biiiiiig olí brick oí buttmud and is now assumed to be all cleaned out. Which is probably why he weighed 0.4 oz less than he did yesterday, although heís been gaining weight like crazy every day up to now so as long as that doesnít continue Iím guessing heíll be okay.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Clapping Larry

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Now that their eyes are open and theyíre learning how to walk, itís quickly become apparent that the kittens need more space to roam than their box allows.

At what age is it okay to let kittens move into a larger space to walk around, without having to worry about them straying too far from their heat source and getting too cold? And how should this be done? Should I only let them out for an hour or two a day?Should I let them out during the day and put them back in their box at night? Should they just stay in their bigger pen for a couple of weeks?

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

id say supervise the roaming exploring and then put them in their box at night at first.

but just my opinion

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




sneakyfrog posted:

id say supervise the roaming exploring and then put them in their box at night at first.

but just my opinion

I mean, I canít stay there and supervise them all day. I donít have a dedicated kitten playpen. My best (and safest) option for them is our front hallway, which is pretty empty and a good size area for a 2-week old kitten to roam around, but I canít just sit in a small empty room with them for 10 to 12 hours every day. Although thereís not anything in there that could injure them either. So is maintaining their body heat the only thing I need to worry about? How do I make sure theyíre getting enough heat? Or is that less of a concern at 2 weeks old?

sneakyfrog
Mar 16, 2011





Fan of Britches

i mean if you cant supervise then just let em roam as much as you can while supervised

sometimes you just camp on the floor with a laptop.

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011


Big Super Slapstick Hunk

Having absolutely no experience in raising small kittens, I'd suggest making a very comfy, warm and soft place that smells of whatever they are used to their area smelling of, then start out by letting them roam out from that and see if they just lie down to sleep where ever they please or if they go back to the warm safezone by themselves when they get tired.

Once you are sure they can be trusted to not kill themselves by trying to sleep in a cold place, you can start figuring out areas to let them free roam unsupervised.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Would a small room heater or two help at all?

Rufflebutt
Jun 9, 2016



Fallen Rib

I am sure you have googled everything by now but I found this and it seems pretty helpful for your situation.

https://www.maddiesfund.org/documen...ent%20table.pdf

I say start with an hour or two to roam out of the box in the evenings when you are available until about 4-5 weeks. In the next week or two temp regulation should stop being something to worry about. The only kittens we have had show up are 5+ weeks so I don't have much experience, but at 5 weeks we had them in their own room for the day and then let them out supervised when we were home.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




And now that Iím switching from syringe to bottle feeding, I need to ask, how often should I sterilize my bottles and nipples? Because up until now Iíve been sterilizing my syringes before every single feeding, but I feel like emptying the bottles to sterilize them that often may be unnecessary.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
i like nice words


Do you have a spare bathtub? If you put down a bunch of towels, that's a good intermediate step between a box and a small room.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




Anne Whateley posted:

Do you have a spare bathtub? If you put down a bunch of towels, that's a good intermediate step between a box and a small room.

Not really. I might be able to put them in our hall bathtub, but that bathroom is where our other catsí main litter box is, and I donít think itís a swell idea to shut off that room to them while the kittens are in there. And my dad uses the only other bathtub too much for that to be a good option.

Our front hallway is about the same size as that hall bathroom, though. Thatís where we put those feral kittens my mom grabbed from our yard in that disastrous attempt to socialize and re-home them a couple of years ago (long story, for those of you who havenít heard it), although Iím pretty sure they were all at least 3 or 4 weeks old by then, so leaving them alone in there wasnít as big a deal.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




New kitten pen


Not shown: The two heating pads from their box, which I put in right after this pic was taken. They are now sitting in the corner in front of those middle shutter doors on the right.

Note the very fancy (and empty) makeshift litter box made out of a repurposed laptop accessory box.

The ambient temp right in front of that heater toward the center-left is about 100į, meaning thereís a decent-sized area in front of it that hits around the 80į mark. The heater itself is also cool to the touch, so the kittens canít accidentally burn themselves on it.


Is this good? Can I make it better?


EDIT: I went ahead and put their box in there with a pillow inside, so they could have a space that smelled familiar to them. They seem to like it.

I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 8, 2020

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste


As soon as they have teeth they're gonna sink them into those wires so be aware of that.

It seems like you're doing a great job with them though, keep it up! Very young kittens like this are usually confined to their "nest" (the hidey hole where mom had them) for a few weeks and aren't expected to do much except eat, sleep, poop, sleep, and twitch (while sleeping) so don't worry about giving them a ton of space yet. But we do need more pictures! (also use [timg] to make camera pictures a little less screen destroyingly huge if you don't mind!)

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

I fear the man who has hit one dinger ten thousand times.




mistaya posted:

As soon as they have teeth they're gonna sink them into those wires so be aware of that.

THANK YOU!! I was wondering if those could be an issue.

Do you have any suggestions for how to cover those wires up? I worry that if I wrap towels or blankets around them, the kittens are gonna bury themselves under them and possibly unwrap them or otherwise injure themselves.

mistaya posted:

But we do need more pictures!

I keep trying to take some, but getting pics of them is hard! They move around SO MUCH! Most of the photos I take, theyíre either out of frame or blurry or both.

mistaya posted:

(also use [timg] to make camera pictures a little less screen destroyingly huge if you don't mind!)

gently caress, really? I thought the forums resized [img]s so they donít wreck tables anymore.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


The trick to kitten pictures is to take videos, and then pick out good frames. Or just post the videos, those work too

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Marchegiana
Jan 31, 2006

. . . Bitch.

I've used sections of pool noodles to protect wires in my foster room, we cut a slit in the side and then the wires can slide into the center. Finding someplace that has them now might be a challenge though. I suppose a substitute might be to get something like bubble wrap and tape the bubble wrap around them. Or just hide them under something the kittens can't lift up, like a heavy rubber mat.

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