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I'm going to be buying a car for my wife for her new commute and I've narrowed it down to the Lexus GS or LS, years 2000 to 2005 with a budget of around $6500. There's great examples of both in my area, so I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of each car. The GS would more than likely be a 300, since the 400/430's are pretty rare and the ones I do find look beat up pretty good. I like that the GS300 has the dependable 2JZ straight six and is a bit smaller than the LS which seems huge. I thought the GS would get better MPG's than the LS, but oddly the average is almost the same between the two so no advantage there. If anything the LS makes me a bit more leery because of it's rep for the electronics being wonky with age, I don't suppose the GS would be much different in that regard either, although it doesn't have as many options as the LS, so less to go wrong I'm thinking but that's probably me just being paranoid. So I guess what I'm looking for is some guidance from anyone that has experience with these cars, common issues, what to look for, etc.
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Mar 27, 2016 17:24
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My co workers heat controls broke and the dealer could not fix it at any price. They wired it to defrost only so he could drive in the winter. I am sure junkyard parts would have worked but Toyota doe not sell replacements for some reason. Car had 200k plus on it and ran fine. Rear shock mount was broken though. Indiana winter is not kind to 200k mile cars.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:21
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Was that an LS or GS? I'm in Florida so that helps a lot, rust is not an issue so as long as the drivetrain can go for 300k I can replace suspension parts all day long which are priced about even to a Camry with the GS. I basically wanted a RWD sedan that was dependable with high miles and cheap to keep and the GS fits the bill. The LS just seems like the logical upgrade if she decides she wants the bigger car. Here's the two GS300's I'll be looking at next weekend: http://sarasota.craigslist.org/cto/5462541671.html http://sarasota.craigslist.org/cto/5503871358.html The '04 is being sold by a dealer, and the '01 is private party and after speaking to the guy he already knocked a grand off the price. Waiting on a VIN for both. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 22:52
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I owned a 93 LS for a while. It h already had years and miles by the time I got it. I don't know if its faults apply to 2000+ but their instrument cluster circuit board (capacitors?) would go bad. A guy in CA fixed them for like 200. Really other than that it was as bullet proof as a 20 year old car can be. Suspension components were absurdly expensive, but it'd give you such a great ride , soft without being floaty, that it seems like an unfair gripe. Lexus makes fantastic riding reliable cars, no easier way to put it. It's gonna have some quirks when it ages but other than those control arms most things were cheap and easy, like shimming a sprocket for the steering wheels auto tilt feature. Anyway I'd vote LS if you want the best possible ride though the other model might have cheaper parts. Lexus forums are good for this type of info, usually with a sticky for buying used for each model. I think I used club Lexus but not sure. E I got into a much younger rx350 last year after a Subaru after the LS. I hope to DD Lexi forever. Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 04:08
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The seats don't fold flat in the 1st gen GS, not sure about the second but I'd check that out of it's a desired feature.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:06
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After some more research on parts availability it looks like the GS is ahead so far, many more parts available, at least on rockauto. On club Lexus now finding out more info.
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Mar 28, 2016 07:55
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The LS 400 is the only Lexus I ever liked so I'd go with a late one of those. They're comfortable, reliable and look boss as hell.
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Mar 28, 2016 14:06
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Don't forget the all important ball-bearing test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AktHnnA9QIM
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Mar 28, 2016 14:32
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Mariana Horchata posted:Don't forget the all important ball-bearing test.  leica posted:After some more research on parts availability it looks like the GS is ahead so far, many more parts available, at least on rockauto. I don't know if it's true but what I read was the early LSs were built from scratch and shared few if any parts with cheaper relatives. Still love the LS though. Sten Freak fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 18:05
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I have a 2003 GS430 (bought new in 2003, now has 160k) and a 2000 LS400 (got it off a family member in 2013 at 90k miles, now has 140k). Those control arm prices for the LS sound way too high, unless you're looking at the LS460s (seem some crazy high prices on those, but I don't really follow them). The GS430 feels a lot sportier and more modern in terms of its performance, the LS400 isn't down that much on power but you really have to hit the gas to get it to move because the car really doesn't want to downshift (keeping it smooth for old people I guess). However, I kind of prefer the LS400 for commuting because it feels like I'm just floating over our lovely freeways, and I feel the bumps a lot more in the GS. Of course, I used to think the GS felt like a Cadillac when my other car was a 350Z, so it depends on what you're used to. Both cars feel amazingly solid when you close the door, compared to most other cars I've been in. The only problems with the cars have been: LS400 - some parts of the LCD portion of the radio don't display, really just a minor annoyance. I also tend to go through tires fairly fast, but I really need to update the suspension, I got lazy about rotating tires, and I put Sumitomo HTR Z II tires on the car, which are probably too soft for a car this heavy. However, they made the handling a lot better (but it still handles like a boat). My power steering just started groaning so I'll need to post in the stupid question thread for that. GS430 - seat heater died under warranty, and they like to eat lower control arms every 70k or so. Replaced a coil pack and also did the motor mounts. The only other issue I've had is a coolant leak where a metal water piece connects to the engine block (I forget the exact name of the part). This would have been an easy fix with a new o-ring if the parts guy at the Toyota counter hadn't insisted it wasn't an o-ring and was in fact actually FIPG. I thought it looked too perfect to be FIPG but he swore up and down it was just that amazingly formed because of robotic assembly lines and all that. Never trust the parts guy (did the job twice, gave up and brought it to a mechanic, they got the $1 o-ring and fixed it without any problems). If I was going to go with the LS, I get whatever year LS430 got the clear instead of yellow tail lights. That car just looks a lot more modern than my 2000 LS400. *edit* I forgot the GS also has an issue with the blend doors for the AC controls. You can buy a whole new module for not that much, but I just opened it up and super glued a piece in place to fix it. Probably took an hour the first time, but would be a lot faster the second. You'll know when it happens because you'll hear a loud clicking when you adjust the temperature. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 19:59
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I had a '96 LS400 and that car was wicked fun. Big and comfy, but able to do lurid fishtails absolutely not in character with its looks. They have a known list of problems, most of which can be avoided by not buying cars with Nakamichi head units and the electronic suspension. As MomJeans420 and others have said, the electro-luminescent display likes to go out, but is fixable. The LCD displays like to go out, but are fixable. The timing belt seems to last forever (you don't see a lot of them lunch engines with a broken belt), but it was one of the more involved maintenance jobs I've ever done (I even posted a 911 message here in the middle of the job, I lost track of the orientation of the cams and the crank). Very fun cars, overall. The only reason I got rid of mine was that it was fogging up the windshield and I thought it was the heater core. In hindsight, I should have looked into it a bit, there's a valve that fails that is easy to replace. Oh well... but I miss that car. My dad had '99 and '00 GS400s and those were even more fun to drive. Shorter, a bit lighter and he had a Rod Millen exhaust on the second one and that really opened that car up. You can't go wrong with a properly maintained older V8 Lexus.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:05
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Love my '04 LS430 after ~4 years of ownership. No regrets at all on the purchase, though I did take my time and found a mythical "1-owner, senior citizen, mostly driven on Sundays and impeccably maintained with paperwork" car. Seat heaters suck, but the coolers work well in the summer. The front cup holders are abysmal (and by that I mean, extremely bad -- not deep). Costs a pretty penny to fill up and the mileage isn't great (but it's not bad for what it is). Everything else about it is basically loving awesome. I purposefully avoided the Nav package -- figured it was just one more electronic thing that would be outdated and prone to loving up. I can't image selling this car in the foreseeable future -- commuting in it is sickeningly pleasant.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:19
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I am super excited that this thread turned me on to the fact that the gs300 is another source of that inline 6 goodness I crave, though it never came with a manual.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:39
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:I am super excited that this thread turned me on to the fact that the gs300 is another source of that inline 6 goodness I crave, though it never came with a manual. IS200/300, but they can still be pretty pricey. There's a decent video on YouTube of a 2JZ-GTE (turbo engine) IS300 on Matt Farah's 'One Take'
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Mar 29, 2016 00:53
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Sten Freak posted:Around the time this came out SNL did a fake commercial spoof where there was a car that looked like total rear end , rusted and lovely on the outside but inside was posh. The idea being no one would try to steal it. As I recall the ball bearing rolled down a seam circled a dent then fell into a hole in the body. Yup, here ya go: http://www.hulu.com/watch/824089
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Mar 29, 2016 01:05
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fingerling posted:IS200/300, but they can still be pretty pricey. There's a decent video on YouTube of a 2JZ-GTE (turbo engine) IS300 on Matt Farah's 'One Take' I picked up a 5spd IS300 for a friend about two weeks ago. Very clean, ~150k miles, $5.5k. Utterly reliable cars, it's his third.
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Mar 29, 2016 03:26
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Un-l337-Pork posted:Seat heaters suck, but the coolers work well in the summer. The front cup holders are abysmal (and by that I mean, extremely bad -- not deep). Costs a pretty penny to fill up and the mileage isn't great (but it's not bad for what it is). Everything else about it is basically loving awesome. I purposefully avoided the Nav package -- figured it was just one more electronic thing that would be outdated and prone to loving up. Yeah from what I've read on the Lexus forum so far is to stay away from the Nav equipped vehicles which rules out pretty much half of them. Funny thing too is that the GS300 with a straight six has almost identical gas mileage of the heavier LS430 with a V8....What the gently caress. This is going to be a tough decision but I'll let my wife have the final say on which one she would prefer. They both seem to be great used car values for the price. MomJeans420 posted:I have a 2003 GS430 (bought new in 2003, now has 160k) Wanna sell it? 
Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 04:06
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MomJeans420 posted:I have a 2003 GS430 (bought new in 2003, now has 160k) and a 2000 LS400 (got it off a family member in 2013 at 90k miles, now has 140k). Those control arm prices for the LS sound way too high, unless you're looking at the LS460s (seem some crazy high prices on those, but I don't really follow them). The GS430 feels a lot sportier and more modern in terms of its performance, the LS400 isn't down that much on power but you really have to hit the gas to get it to move because the car really doesn't want to downshift (keeping it smooth for old people I guess). However, I kind of prefer the LS400 for commuting because it feels like I'm just floating over our lovely freeways, and I feel the bumps a lot more in the GS. Of course, I used to think the GS felt like a Cadillac when my other car was a 350Z, so it depends on what you're used to. Both cars feel amazingly solid when you close the door, compared to most other cars I've been in. High *and* tight, I like it.
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Mar 29, 2016 10:20
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I know you said you like the LS for commuting, but which one do you think is the better car overall? Also have you priced out parts for replacing the LS suspension yet? I'm thinking the LS is going to be a lot more expensive in that regard. This is about double my budget but sooooo nice, very tempted to make payments  http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/ctd/5511119703.html
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Mar 29, 2016 16:35
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Holy crap a Toyota Avalon with a v8. Sorry Thats what that car listed reminds me of. And I have ridden in a shitload of avalons and they were all nice riding cars with decent speed. And just like with all aging Toyota's rock auto is your friend for suspension parts.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:00
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meatpimp posted:you don't see a lot of them lunch engines with a broken belt The 1UZ is non-interference so you shouldn't see any suffering from serious damage after timing belt failure. The tensioner/idler bearings fail long before the belts do.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:08
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As of 2012 OEM upper control arms were over $500 each and all the aftermarket ones were garbage in the longevity department. This is around the time I replaced mine. http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-1st-and-2nd-gen-1990-2000/610572-need-advice-upper-control-arm.html The topic was common because you had well running 20 year old ish LSes on the road which needed control arms but the cars themselves were worth less than $10k (or $5k even) for the car itself. Again, things might have changed with later iterations of the LS but that's where things stood a few years ago when I was replacing mine on a 1st gen. The $700 per side was quoted from my mechanic so there might have been some markup versus the cheapest source on the net or maybe that was with labor but I recall that being the parts only which is why I went with aftermarket ones. clublexus poster posted:I had to replace my Arnott arms within one year... Lower control arms were much cheaper but still were still in the hundreds per side. My experience was you started getting the CLUNK over bumps and potholes around 130k miles give or take on original suspension. It gets worse and worse until it's bad but crazily the car still rides better with shot control arms than most non luxury car out there. If you go to that thread and see related threads you might be able to find an aftermarket control arm which is just as good but you'd want to see someone who ran on them for 10k or better yet 25k miles to see if they really hold up. People were desperate for a working cheaper solution over OEM. Sill, the LS is fantastic. If you're going to keep it a long time you pay for good parts which will last for 100k+, have an incredible ride and drive it for years or decades. If you're still not sure lookup OEM control arms for the year you're considering and use that in your purchasing decision.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:26
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BlackMK4 posted:I picked up a 5spd IS300 for a friend about two weeks ago. Very clean, ~150k miles, $5.5k. Utterly reliable cars, it's his third. Holy poo poo that's totally my jam.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:40
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SouthsideSaint posted:Holy crap a Toyota Avalon with a v8. Sorry Thats what that car listed reminds me of. And I have ridden in a shitload of avalons and they were all nice riding cars with decent speed. And just like with all aging Toyota's rock auto is your friend for suspension parts. Yeah I looked at Avalons, but for some reason the reliability is horrible for years I was looking at (06 to 08) apparently there is a bad oil leak problem with the cars. Also FWD, I would much rather have RWD in a bigger sedan. Also have been looking through rockauto and it is not looking good for the LS. The GS has WAY more suspension parts available.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:41
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:The 1UZ is non-interference so you shouldn't see any suffering from serious damage after timing belt failure. Only true for '90-94 LS400s. The '95-up are interference. I can testify to that, because as I was doing my timing belt and had the belt jump as I was timing it, I heard the sickening sound of a valve touching piston. Thankfully I was slowly turning it by hand to find out where the cams/crank were at, but they are definitely interference engines.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:52
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leica posted:Yeah from what I've read on the Lexus forum so far is to stay away from the Nav equipped vehicles which rules out pretty much half of them. My GS430 has nav and it actually works pretty well, and I've had no issues. The only thing is if you want to replace the stereo, you have to swap out the nav for the non-nav AC controls, etc (it's all controlled from the touch screen), so you'll lose the nav if you replace the stereo. I ended up having Factory Radio Service modify the stock head unit to add an aux-in. He modifies it so you can switch between the radio and an aux-in, if you have him put the jack on the front of the stereo it will automatically switch from stereo to aux-in when you plug something in. I wanted it as clean as possible so I had him put the jack on the back of the head unit, in which case he adds a small button to the front of the stereo that looks amazingly stock, you just push the button to switch between radio and aux-in. I then added a himbox for bluetooth support which plugs into the aux-in, but you need a ground loop isolator too to avoid engine whine (when it's plugged into a cigarette lighter for power). I also forgot the GS430 has the rear sub in the back deck tear, you can buy a new one from Lexus for way too much money, put in an aftermarket one, or just hot glue the edges and have it work for another 2 years (I've had to hot glue it two or three times now). Also, I had to replace the radiators of both cars around 100k miles, but that's probably because I'm a bad person who doesn't flush the coolant. I did just check the LS400 upper control arms - holy poo poo, they are $500+. I was doing some research and I'll probably go with Moog or Doorman replacement ones, the Moogs are $122/$154 on amazon right now (depending on the side). I think the GS430 lower control arms were a little more than $200 at the local Lexus dealer, and probably a bit cheaper online. I'd probably go with the GS over the LS, it really handles like a more modern car, and the automatic transmission programming is better. I forgot to mention we made the GS430 the car we transport the dogs in (great danes), and my wife drives it, so it always feel dirty and messy to me compared to the LS. If the GS was as clean as the LS, I'd probably drive it more often. Not planning on selling either car until later this year, I'm going to buy a LS460 off a family member for a great price.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:32
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^^^^Cool, thanks man. Found this one out in Orlando, looks like the best one yet, one owner low miles. Gonna try to check it out this weekend. http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/5482372666.html Price is a little high, so hopefully he's willing to negotiate. [edit] It sold already 
Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 05:41
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leica posted:Yeah I looked at Avalons, but for some reason the reliability is horrible for years I was looking at (06 to 08) apparently there is a bad oil leak problem with the cars. Also FWD, I would much rather have RWD in a bigger sedan. Mom has an 03. Can confirm that it prefers to keep its oil on the outside of the engine, it leaks from pretty much every seal and gasket. drat nice car for highway driving though.
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Apr 3, 2016 04:41
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Test drove an '05 LS430 today, an although the car I drove was a bit unkept and not a car I would buy, it drove amazing. Plenty of power. It drives way smaller than it looks if that makes any sense, compared to a Crown Vic it felt like a Corvette. My wife loved it, I think we're hooked.....Now time to find a private owner car with low miles and service records......shouldn't be too hard to do in Florida with these cars all over the place...... http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/5515671365.html First thing my son said was Heyyyyy why don't I get cooled seats?   cooling seats are awesome
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Apr 3, 2016 05:29
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So glad you aren't writing off the LS just because parts are more expensive. It's definitely a case of getting what you are paying for.
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Apr 3, 2016 05:44
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If I can get a mint 430 for 10k or less with low(ish) miles... gently caress it I'll just replace control arms when they go bad, it's worth it. Maybe by then there will be aftermarket control arms that are worth a poo poo, who knows. A guy on the Lexus forums made a good point.......Most of the LS's are bought and taken care of by people that can afford to keep them perfect, in Florida lots of them are owned by older retired people that pamper them and cruise to the buffet and shuffle board courts putting hardly any miles on them. The GS's tend to get ragged on and are much harder to find in excellent condition. It's becoming very clear watching the CL adds that my odds of finding a mint LS are much higher than a GS. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Apr 3, 2016 |
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Apr 3, 2016 06:21
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leica posted:If I can get a mint 430 for 10k or less with low(ish) miles... gently caress it I'll just replace control arms when they go bad, it's worth it. Maybe by then there will be aftermarket control arms that are worth a poo poo, who knows. There's a '04 LS 430 a consignment shop is selling for 7 grand, has 170k miles on it though. Plus it's likely been through 12 Illinois winters. I've seen it on their lot for the last 6 months or so, I'd bet they want it gone. I could take it for a spin sometime if you're interested, let me know. http://www.route31hotrods.com/2004-Lexus-LS430/Used-Car/Mchenry-IL/7265897/Details.aspx
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Apr 3, 2016 10:31
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Buy a 35k km Celsior example from 1990 that's RHD.
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Apr 3, 2016 11:00
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NoWake posted:There's a '04 LS 430 a consignment shop is selling for 7 grand, has 170k miles on it though. Plus it's likely been through 12 Illinois winters. I've seen it on their lot for the last 6 months or so, I'd bet they want it gone. I could take it for a spin sometime if you're interested, let me know. I live in Florida, there's tons of them down here so I have no need or want for a northern car that has seen any winters. The car I just linked sold already. I need to have cash in hand ready to jump apparently 
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Apr 3, 2016 17:21
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The other thing about the GS is for a while there (I think around 2005, 2006) they seemed to be THE car to have in the ghetto, which meant a lot of them received very lovely mods. I'm guessing a lot of people bought them once the original owner's lease was up, but I'd see tons of them slammed with huge wheels. No one seems to do that to the newer GS models, but the GS400/GS430 from the late 90s to 2003 were incredibly popular for that. Maybe it was just a regional thing in So Cal.
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Apr 9, 2016 20:38
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It's the same thing here, half of them are modded in some way and the nice(ish) GS's are few and far between. Looked at another LS today and was not impressed, I hate how cars look great in pics and then in person are below average. Looking at an '03 tomorrow, but I need to be impressed in order to buy, there are so many of these cars around that I feel if I'm patient I'll find a gem.
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Apr 9, 2016 23:16
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I would go LS if you can handle future expensive repairs IF it is even needed. Working at Lexus in the 90s id start a ls400 and it look amd feel like it had 30k on it and when the dash turned on it would have 3-400k with nothing but oil changes (but I understand that was a long time ago). Great cars
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Apr 10, 2016 01:20
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From what I've been reading so far, according to Lexus techs the 430 is the best LS made, and the later models of that ('04 to '06) are the best years. Trying to find the time to go look at this tomorrow: http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/ctd/5530667414.html This color combo is the poo poo, best I've seen so far. [edit] Maybe not, the Lexus service history is showing every single recommended service (including the timing belt) denied by the PO, what the gently caress. Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 04:10
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leica posted:From what I've been reading so far, according to Lexus techs the 430 is the best LS made, and the later models of that ('04 to '06) are the best years. Maybe they had it serviced by an independent shop?
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Apr 10, 2016 06:52
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Raluek posted:Maybe they had it serviced by an independent shop? Could be I suppose, but what's weird is that the PO took it to Lexus for every oil change, but then refused every single service that was recommended. If the PO was too cheap to have it serviced at the dealer, why take it there for oil changes? I'll have to call the dealership to find out if they have any other records.
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Apr 10, 2016 15:48
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