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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Qwijib0 posted:

You could also put solar on your roof not as a monetary savings, but because you can afford to offset some of your own carbon. (Ticking that green box does the same thing assuming the poco is doing that as well)

Absolutely. But, much like buying a this is more of a lifestyle decision than a money saving one. To your point, one shouldn't mistake the presence of residential solar near to to mean it's financially advantageous because people are bad at math or may have chosen it for other reasons.

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devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik


Speaking of other reasons, I just got an email from a homeowner asking about adding solar panels to her home (iím on the board). We already have a house with solar so itís no big deal, and I got her in touch with our building person.

Their main stated reason for wanting solar? Their concern over what happened in Texas. To which I just shake my head at their complete misunderstanding of what happened there. They would be better spent installing a reasonable generator system for key circuits.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


I wonder how many homeowners per year are surprised during their first power outage that their solar doesn't generate without a grid feed. Thousands? Tens of thousands? (Versus their installer not being a scumbag and making sure they understand that up front prior to signature.)

BigPaddy
Jun 30, 2008

That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.




Isnít that why you have a battery as well or is it I, being the dumb one?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


BigPaddy posted:

Isn’t that why you have a battery as well or is it I, being the dumb one?

99% of residential solar doesn't have storage. That's rounded down.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

I wanted orange.

It gave me lemon-lime.



all i know about solar panels is 7 different companies have come to my door trying to sell them to me

i was not polite to the 7th.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

You walk in with the Turnips, you leave with the Bells.



I get that people need to do their own research and all that, but isn't "Generates electricity as long as the sun is up" a logical thing to think about residential solar systems?

falz
Jan 29, 2005

01100110 01100001 01101100 01111010


That Tesla battery is for that problem right?

Also, isn't it common for solar to hear water, unrelated to grid?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


mutata posted:

I get that people need to do their own research and all that, but isn't "Generates electricity as long as the sun is up" a logical thing to think about residential solar systems?

It's not an unreasonable assumption, but it's simply not reality. Your installer should be making it abundantly clear prior to signing.

falz posted:

That Tesla battery is for that problem right?

Also, isn't it common for solar to hear water, unrelated to grid?

Yes, but those are very expensive, and probably more expensive than you think. Those cells will not last forever, so in 10 years you should probably expect to either have severely diminished capacity or need to replace the whole unit. ( https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall_2_ac_warranty_us_1-4.pdf 10 years, 70% capacity) They cost somewhere around $8k I think? Plus labor, plus they only sell them with new solar setups - probably of Tesla brand panels. Overall just very expensive from an untrustworthy company.

No, solar hot water is its own much less common thing.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



H110Hawk posted:

It's not an unreasonable assumption, but it's simply not reality. Your installer should be making it abundantly clear prior to signing.


Yes, but those are very expensive, and probably more expensive than you think. Those cells will not last forever, so in 10 years you should probably expect to either have severely diminished capacity or need to replace the whole unit. ( https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall_2_ac_warranty_us_1-4.pdf 10 years, 70% capacity) They cost somewhere around $8k I think? Plus labor, plus they only sell them with new solar setups - probably of Tesla brand panels. Overall just very expensive from an untrustworthy company.

No, solar hot water is its own much less common thing.

How much for a 6-bar leaf battery and some jumper cables?

Danhenge
Dec 16, 2005


H110Hawk posted:

Yes, but those are very expensive, and probably more expensive than you think. Those cells will not last forever, so in 10 years you should probably expect to either have severely diminished capacity or need to replace the whole unit. ( https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall_2_ac_warranty_us_1-4.pdf 10 years, 70% capacity) They cost somewhere around $8k I think? Plus labor, plus they only sell them with new solar setups - probably of Tesla brand panels. Overall just very expensive from an untrustworthy company.

A lot of this will depend on your battery setup, including how deep you cycle them and what portion of your theoretical max you keep it at. If you're an enterprising home user with your home setup installed for the possibility of batteries so you have your critical loads on a sub-panel with a failover switch and an inverter setup capable of dealing with batteries you could go aftermarket with something like a used leaf battery or a pile of LiFP batteries. Certainly not quite as set-and-forget, but there's a reason why leaf batteries are popular with the DIY solar crowd.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.


H110Hawk posted:

99% of residential solar doesn't have storage. That's rounded down.

The only excuse I can come up with for this is that a lot of those installations were put in before cheap/effective storage was a thing. But even my uncle had a small battery farm at his remote cabin, and he's had a solar/wind setup for 20+ years.

I can't really fathom the thought process of, "well I'll get solar to reduce my dependency on the grid. Which only works when the sun shines. During the day. While I'm not home."

These days, getting solar/wind/etc. without having storage is just mind boggling given how far battery technology has come. Frankly I can't see how it's effective at either reducing your cost OR your dependence on the grid to do without.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

You walk in with the Turnips, you leave with the Bells.



Net metering and selling power back to the grid during the day obviously helps with that. I've worked from home since 2017 and would use the solar, but I live in Utah where they have a hard on for destroying common sense policy like net metering so I don't really trust it.

Ziploc
Sep 19, 2006
MX-5

Is this the place where I can ask about dishwashers?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Ziploc posted:

Is this the place where I can ask about dishwashers?

Bosch mid-level with third rack. Next question.

BigPaddy
Jun 30, 2008

That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.




Front load washers still poo poo?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


BigPaddy posted:

Front load washers still poo poo?

They're fine.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





H110Hawk posted:

Bosch mid-level with third rack. Next question.

I just today discovered that the Kitchenaid washer the PO put in my new house has a third rack. It's amazing.

Ziploc
Sep 19, 2006
MX-5

H110Hawk posted:

Bosch mid-level with third rack. Next question.

Haha yes this is the conclusion I came to as well. However, I was pretty set on the 800 series once I heard about that zeolite crystal dry. But to my disappointment, Bosch doesn't bring that feature to their 18 inch dishwashers. Which I found a bit misleading because most of the literature I read was "the 800s all have CrystalDry." But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see missing features like that in a compact dishwasher.

I can't seem to find much difference between the 800 and 300 series in 18inches. They seem to have the same racks as well. There doesn't seem to be a 18 inch 500 series with the pop open door for improved drying. Which means no mid-level lol. So I'm sorta wondering what the point of Bosch's naming scheme in the 18 inch dishwasher size.

Is zeolite crystal dry really that good? Is there significant reason (apart from the 4db quieter cleaning) to get the 800 over the 300 in 18 inches?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Ziploc posted:

Is zeolite crystal dry really that good?

Yes, especially if you have a lot of plastics.

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



I think you might have more buttons that you wonít use on the control panel (starbucks-rear end give me the half load heavy wash with a sanitize glassware kicker poo poo)

The crystal dry is excellent, but the regular is very good.

Ziploc
Sep 19, 2006
MX-5

Ok I finally found a good breakdown of the compact Bosches.



Shame none of the compacts have CrystalDry.

Now to decide if it's worth the extra loss in cabinet space for the feature...

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Ziploc posted:

Ok I finally found a good breakdown of the compact Bosches.



Shame none of the compacts have CrystalDry.

Now to decide if it's worth the extra loss in cabinet space for the feature...

I don't have crystal magic and it's fine. I shake the water off my plastics and move on with my life.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

DaveSauce posted:

The only excuse I can come up with for this is that a lot of those installations were put in before cheap/effective storage was a thing. But even my uncle had a small battery farm at his remote cabin, and he's had a solar/wind setup for 20+ years.

I can't really fathom the thought process of, "well I'll get solar to reduce my dependency on the grid. Which only works when the sun shines. During the day. While I'm not home."

These days, getting solar/wind/etc. without having storage is just mind boggling given how far battery technology has come. Frankly I can't see how it's effective at either reducing your cost OR your dependence on the grid to do without.

Battery Storage is even less cost-effective than PV.

El Mero Mero
Oct 13, 2001



Ziploc posted:

Ok I finally found a good breakdown of the compact Bosches.



Shame none of the compacts have CrystalDry.

Now to decide if it's worth the extra loss in cabinet space for the feature...

I did the 800 and the third rack is fantastic. Couldn't imagine one without it.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

I put on the dishwasher after dinner, and before I go to bed I open it and turn anything with a lip upside down.
If you want things to actually come out dry then you will want some kind of premium model that offers that as a feature.

BigPaddy posted:

Front load washers still poo poo?

Aren't front-loading washing machines universally regarded as superior?
But the time taken for a cycle is ridiculous.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!

Ziploc posted:

Is zeolite crystal dry really that good? Is there significant reason (apart from the 4db quieter cleaning) to get the 800 over the 300 in 18 inches?

I've had my 800 series for a few weeks. The zeolite is neat but not a must-have. I actually turned it off a few days ago and hardly notice a difference, though I barely wash any plastics. If I was in your boat looking at 18" models I'd just pay $200 for the extra 4db off and the peace of mind to not worry you missed some slightly upgraded dish layout.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

mcgreenvegtables posted:

I've had my 800 series for a few weeks. The zeolite is neat but not a must-have. I actually turned it off a few days ago and hardly notice a difference, though I barely wash any plastics.

It's a physical heat sink inside the dishwasher tub. You can't turn it off.

Ziploc
Sep 19, 2006
MX-5

Motronic posted:

It's a physical heat sink inside the dishwasher tub. You can't turn it off.

I think there's an active fan that has a cycle. But you're right, they're always there to do some moisture sucking.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



A thousand dollars for a dishwasher you guys are getting absolutely hosed

devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik


This is our forever house, we want poo poo to last. I already have my wife on board with an 800, I should probably get on the wait list at the appliance store. Same reason we bought pella windows, a tankless water heater, and a speed queen; I wonít have to think about them for 25 years.

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005



devmd01 posted:

tankless water heater [...] I wonít have to think about them for 25 years.

Yeah, I'm going to bet almost everything I have on a tankless not lasting anywhere near 25 years. Their reliability claims have largely proven to be a huge lie, with failures due to specialized parts and control boards that aren't easy or cheap to replace. It's pretty hard to beat the simplicity of a basic electric or gas tank water heater.

Also, you probably need to think about it at least every few years to do a vinegar flush.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


devmd01 posted:

This is our forever house, we want poo poo to last. I already have my wife on board with an 800, I should probably get on the wait list at the appliance store. Same reason we bought pella windows, a tankless water heater, and a speed queen; I won’t have to think about them for 25 years.

I got news for you on the mechanicals.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

B-Nasty posted:

Yeah, I'm going to bet almost everything I have on a tankless not lasting anywhere near 25 years. Their reliability claims have largely proven to be a huge lie, with failures due to specialized parts and control boards that aren't easy or cheap to replace. It's pretty hard to beat the simplicity of a basic electric or gas tank water heater.

Also, you probably need to think about it at least every few years to do a vinegar flush.

We use tankless systems at work both as boilers and hot water heaters. (Natural Gas) They definitely have a higher maintenance requirement for not a lot of benefit. The heat exchangers require professional inspection and maintenance yearly (for the boilers). The first ones had to be replaced after about 5 years due to corrosion and this is on a closed loop so no hard water. The 2nd design is supposedly better with stainless steel in some areas. The circuit boards have been the next problem area and a very frustrating one. These are in a pretty clean environment and we've had to replace two sets of boards in 5 years. The manufacturer covered the cost in both occasions which makes me think it's a known problem. The vent motor has also proved to be a piece of poo poo.

On the flip side we have these little electric tankless units we use for hand wash sinks and they just go, and go, and go in the nastiest shittiest environment you've ever seen. Literally caked in hand soap, grit, metal shavings, and we never have to touch them.

I miss the analog-mechanical boilers and hot water heaters. In about 5 minutes you could check every component and insure it's working right.

Yooper fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Apr 7, 2021

peanut
Sep 9, 2007




Today I scrubbed the lower window frames (soda bottle of water with a brush attachment) and a lot of gunk came out of the little water output slots. It was gross but satisfying like popping a zit.

devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik


B-Nasty posted:

Also, you probably need to think about it at least every few years to do a vinegar flush.

At the very least, yes, Iíll do the necessary yearly maintenance. I just need to order a submersible pump to run it, the Rinnai video is super easy to follow.

shirts and skins
Jun 25, 2007

You never know
just how you look
through other people's eyes


Now that our pre-move work is wrapping up and we can start thinking about future projects, what's the best way to get windows replaced? A specific window company, a general contractor, a more general home improvement retailer? This is probably the next project we save up for, our vinyl frames are old and in pretty bad shape.

Jenkl
Aug 4, 2008


Well poo poo, seems supply chain issues are getting even worse now.

Lumber is somehow more expensive than it was right when this pandemic started, but that's not even the worst of it.

For the first time in the last year, it looks like we're running out of drywall now too (where I am).

I had been keeping an eye on things and really hoping drywall held out, but alas...

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Jenkl posted:

Well poo poo, seems supply chain issues are getting even worse now.

Lumber is somehow more expensive than it was right when this pandemic started, but that's not even the worst of it.

For the first time in the last year, it looks like we're running out of drywall now too (where I am).

I had been keeping an eye on things and really hoping drywall held out, but alas...

I saw home depot had a purchase limit on drywall mud.

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devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik


$12k quote from Pella to replace the back door and side panel windows in the back. we are going to change it from a single door as it is today to a French door that opens outward. It will still have a screen across even when both doors are open wide for fresh air.

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