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His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


B-Nasty posted:

Yeah, I'm going to bet almost everything I have on a tankless not lasting anywhere near 25 years. Their reliability claims have largely proven to be a huge lie, with failures due to specialized parts and control boards that aren't easy or cheap to replace. It's pretty hard to beat the simplicity of a basic electric or gas tank water heater.

Also, you probably need to think about it at least every few years to do a vinegar flush.

Heat pumps are pretty simple and more effecive than a gas heater. The more advanced things gets though... But hoping for 20 years from our heat pump.

When it domes to windows, I think wooden window frames are the way to go... Just can't beat it for durability and repairability... Ours are aluminum and modern and I bet they will slowly get worse over time and in a couple of decades you can't get spares for them anymore. So buy new ones and make us more money... Nah I'm gonna go with the option where I can get spares from the forest in the future.

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cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



If you're happy to maintain them wooden windows are pretty good and look so much nicer, but I recently bought a used uPVC window for my wife's craft cabin and it was 20 years old and in perfect condition. Failures of those are going to be the sealed glass elements which you can't home game.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

His Divine Shadow posted:

Heat pumps are pretty simple and more effecive than a gas heater. The more advanced things gets though... But hoping for 20 years from our heat pump.

What is your definition of "effective"? Because "making cold air hot ASAP" would be the way I'd measure that, and fossil absolutely trounces any heat pump in that category with heat pumps barely achieving a 7F rise (while the source is within their sweet spot) and a gas or oil furnace somewhere in the 30F range no matter what temperature it is outside.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


The way I'd measure it is how much energy it consumes for the heat it generates and on that score you can't beat a heat pump. And they're plenty effective to keep houses heated in my experience so that's just not an issue, since I don't need heating delivered any faster, nomatter what temperature it is outside.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

His Divine Shadow posted:

The way I'd measure it is how much energy it consumes for the heat it generates and on that score you can't beat a heat pump. And they're plenty effective to keep houses heated in my experience so that's just not an issue, since I don't need heating delivered any faster, nomatter what temperature it is outside.

That makes more sense. You're describing energy efficiency, not effectiveness.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

There is a little bit of a disconnect because a furnace that consumes 3 units of hydrocarbons that cost 10Ę each to warm 3 units of air is roughly as efficient as a heat pump that consumes 1 unit of electricity that costs 30Ę to warm 3 units of air.

(If your grid is mostly nuclear baseload then I can see preferring the heat pump. Same if your favourite hydrocarbon is more than ⅓ or so the cost of electricity.)

~Coxy fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Apr 8, 2021

just another
Oct 16, 2009

these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Looking at an older farmhouse. The vent stacks are exposed in the bathrooms so I'm guessing there was a reno done at some point and they had to be brought up to code. Looks like white PVC pipe and ugly.

Rather than trying to hide them, or leave them exposed but ugly, I was wondering if any of you have ever seen chromed pipes used for a situation like this. Or is there a better option?

edit:

just another fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 8, 2021

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004




Paint them green and do a super mario bros themed bathroom.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Just box them in, Chrome pipes will need constant cleaning to not look grody in that location.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

just another posted:

Looking at an older farmhouse. The vent stacks are exposed in the bathrooms so I'm guessing there was a reno done at some point and they had to be brought up to code. Looks like white PVC pipe and ugly.

Rather than trying to hide them, or leave them exposed but ugly, I was wondering if any of you have ever seen chromed pipes used for a situation like this. Or is there a better option?

edit:


Think carefully about what other corners have been cut when you see a gigantic, obvious thing like that which is so bad you're already talking about how to fix it just from the pictures you saw because clearly nobody wants to live with such a poo poo job. Then think about how the current owners are exactly the kind of people to care that little.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

cakesmith handyman posted:

If you're happy to maintain them wooden windows are pretty good and look so much nicer, but I recently bought a used uPVC window for my wife's craft cabin and it was 20 years old and in perfect condition. Failures of those are going to be the sealed glass elements which you can't home game.

I have 8 year old PVC windows, and they already are breaking down. They slide like poo poo, need to be nursed in to close just right so they don't leak, etc. (There's also a bunch of poo poo between the panes, but as you note, that dual pane problems)
I'm sure there are better quality PVC windows, but man, my parents have 95 year old wood windows that were specifically designed to be user serviceable and I love them so much.

devicenull
May 30, 2007



Grimey Drawer

devmd01 posted:

$12k quote from Pella to replace the back door and side panel windows in the back. we are going to change it from a single door as it is today to a French door that opens outward. It will still have a screen across even when both doors are open wide for fresh air.

Get another quote!

just another
Oct 16, 2009

these dead towns that make the maps wrong now

Motronic posted:

Think carefully about what other corners have been cut when you see a gigantic, obvious thing like that which is so bad you're already talking about how to fix it just from the pictures you saw because clearly nobody wants to live with such a poo poo job. Then think about how the current owners are exactly the kind of people to care that little.

Fair enough, but to play devil's advocate, it's a 1937 farmhouse on what used to be a working farm in the middle of nowhere, and the concept of licensed and permitted work seems to be foreign to this entire province.

When we did a walkthrough it had all the same "make-do" hallmarks we've seen in every other older working class home that we've looked at here. It's starting to look like we're not going to find anything we'd want without a dozen red flags, and it's not as though we're shopping the bottom of the market. This is just a poor, rural patch of flyover country. The only consistently good housing stock we've seen has been in the 1960s-1980s era subdivision that was formerly known as the 'rich' part of town.

just another fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 8, 2021

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

It sounds like most of that market is "the bottom" and you'll need to decide if you really want to purchase that kind of housing stock. Unfortunately building is nearly out of the question given the current climate, so that may leave you with buying something at the right price to do major renovations....likely in the future.

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018



nm posted:

I have 8 year old PVC windows, and they already are breaking down. They slide like poo poo, need to be nursed in to close just right so they don't leak, etc. (There's also a bunch of poo poo between the panes, but as you note, that dual pane problems)
I'm sure there are better quality PVC windows, but man, my parents have 95 year old wood windows that were specifically designed to be user serviceable and I love them so much.

Yeah with older PVC windows itís only a matter of time before the seal breaks or they otherwise fail in some irreparable way. The folks across the street refurbed and sold one of their rental properties last year and mentioned to me that the buyers wanted them to replace a couple windows. This was very old house so I assumed old windows and asked if I could have the hardware, and they explained that the windows needing replacing were vinyl ones theyíd installed in 2008. Twelve years old and already in a state of failure.

We want to replace a number of lovely vinyl windows in our house with proper wood ones, and the millwork guy we talked to steered us away from double pane because theyíre waaay more expensive and have a 20-30 year shelf life due to the seal. Old school wooden single pane windows are much simpler to build/repair and will last well over a century if you (and your descendants) regularly maintain them, and if you do stuff like insulate the attic and install storm panes and good window treatments, you can easily make up for the energy savings you lose by not having that second pane.

devmd01 posted:

$12k quote from Pella to replace the back door and side panel windows in the back. we are going to change it from a single door as it is today to a French door that opens outward. It will still have a screen across even when both doors are open wide for fresh air.

Seconding getting another quote. Try some local window & door millwork shops.

shirts and skins
Jun 25, 2007

You never know
just how you look
through other people's eyes


Queen Victorian posted:

Seconding getting another quote. Try some local window & door millwork shops.

Well this is quite a rabbit hole to go down

https://www.thecraftsmengroup.com/

Hachi machi this is cool, not really right for our house but it answers a lot of questions about the historic homes in the area

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Random little question: What's the best way to hang curtains for bay windows? There are specialized kits that let you connect rods at an angle, are these generally the way to go vs. trying to find and install separate rods for the angled side windows? There don't seem to be a lot of options there but it seems like it would be difficult to find sufficiently short rods that wouldn't run into each other.

Also, one of the bay windows has a normal amount of clearance between it and the ceiling and the other one has zero clearance whatsoever. So that's going to be fun to try to match

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Queen Victorian posted:


We want to replace a number of lovely vinyl windows in our house with proper wood ones, and the millwork guy we talked to steered us away from double pane because theyíre waaay more expensive and have a 20-30 year shelf life due to the seal. Old school wooden single pane windows are much simpler to build/repair and will last well over a century if you (and your descendants) regularly maintain them, and if you do stuff like insulate the attic and install storm panes and good window treatments, you can easily make up for the energy savings you lose by not having that second pane.


I'm honestly unsure if you can replace modern windows with old single pane windows legally here, but man, it's kind of a dream. I'll probably end up paying $texas for pella reserves. This house (turns 100 next year) just looks like such poo poo with the vinyl windows that even if they didn't suck I'd be looking to replace them.

Straight White Shark posted:

Random little question: What's the best way to hang curtains for bay windows? There are specialized kits that let you connect rods at an angle, are these generally the way to go vs. trying to find and install separate rods for the angled side windows? There don't seem to be a lot of options there but it seems like it would be difficult to find sufficiently short rods that wouldn't run into each other.

Also, one of the bay windows has a normal amount of clearance between it and the ceiling and the other one has zero clearance whatsoever. So that's going to be fun to try to match
Inside mounts?

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

You walk in with the Turnips, you leave with the Bells.



What's the cellular shade website everyone orders from again?

shirts and skins
Jun 25, 2007

You never know
just how you look
through other people's eyes


mutata posted:

What's the cellular shade website everyone orders from again?

I got mine from Blinds.com and they work great. Definitely didn't need professional installation, just had to be precise with my measuring. Incidentally, the "premier" house brand for that site appears to be just de-branded basic Bali shades, and often for a good deal cheaper

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018



shirts and skins posted:

Well this is quite a rabbit hole to go down

https://www.thecraftsmengroup.com/

Hachi machi this is cool, not really right for our house but it answers a lot of questions about the historic homes in the area

Isnít it?

I spent a good while perusing the Craftsmen Groupís portfolio - amazing stuff. Seems like their work is weighted heavily towards restoration, though (or at least the work they are featuring). You can probably find ones that do modern/contemporary designs as well as traditional/historic. For instance, the shop we have here does a lot of historic reproduction but will also do modern stuff if you just want good quality doors and windows made the old way even if you donít have an old house.

nm posted:

I'm honestly unsure if you can replace modern windows with old single pane windows legally here, but man, it's kind of a dream. I'll probably end up paying $texas for pella reserves. This house (turns 100 next year) just looks like such poo poo with the vinyl windows that even if they didn't suck I'd be looking to replace them.

Iíve gotten the sense that in most places, rules on how many panes your windows are supposed to have apply to new construction and substantial remodels, not necessarily down to the level of simply popping in a new window, but then again, some vicinities have draconian permit requirements/rules around energy efficiency stuff.

My mom has expressed worry about me running afoul of window energy rules (since CA, where my parents live, is rife with energy rules), but I have yet to find evidence of any rules governing window types in existing construction, and seeing all the cool single-paned period residential work the old fashioned millwork shop does around here, I donít think itís a problem. It helps that this is a good-sized city, which means they have better things to do than micromanage replacement windows in SFHs.

Hell, my dad got away with new single pane windows in CA in a small town with a busybody planning commission in the 90ís. His reasoning for going with single pane was that he hated the fat muntins that came with true divided light double-paned windows. You can have much thinner and better proportioned muntins in single paned windows.

One thing I learned from consulting with the millwork shop is that oftentimes, vinyl window fitters just stuff the vinyl replacement window into the original jamb, leaving it mostly intact, with the old pulley hardware and counterweights just sealed up, which means that after some light rehab to the jamb (and probably new stops), chances are you just need to pop in your new old sashes and attach them to the counterweights. This also means that the replacement window is a good bit smaller than what it replaced, which means less glass surface area and therefore less light.

But yeah, in my house, most of the vinyl windows are trash, with a few being allegedly nicer, including a huge arched Pella in the dining room:

Bonus closeup of lower sash and sill with that stupid lip making it annoying to place potted plants, with cattes:


Multiple people have remarked on this being an expensive piece since itís Pella and custom.

Buuuut itís stark white unpaintable plastic in a room full of dark wood trim and it looks like complete rear end from outside:


...So Iíll be ripping it out and replacing it with a period appropriate wood window, probably with a stained glass arch pane thingy. But itís way down on the list of windows to replace because itís a decent quality window (for a hunk of plastic) and there are plenty of way shittier windows we have to contend with first.

As for that previous pic, I took it to illustrate the contrast between some average original windows and the most egregious replacement windows - original windows are inset and protected from the elements. They have clean lines because they are simple wooden things. The replacement windows are jutted out and exposed to the elements, and modern window technology always calls for convoluted vinyl extrusions for some reason, so the resulting windows look busy and complicated and always seem dirty/degraded because there are so many crevices that detritus can collect in. That ugly upstairs window is in my home office and those stupid sliders donít even fit correctly. It is supposed to be one of those cool Victorian oriel windows with the huge square sash and stained glass transom above (where that white plywood is), but alas. Some day.

As for old school window inspiration, when Iím out and about, Iíll sometimes take creepshotsarchitectural reference photos of houses and buildings I see. Here are some loving impeccable windows:



Iím so goddamn jealous of the windows in this house (and this house in general). That high-end oriel with curved glass and perfect double hung windows with a period appropriate paint job, not to mention the incredible brickwork and dentil molding

You canít achieve that poo poo with vinyl. Best Iíve seen of vinyl in an old house was a rehab job on a far-gone dark brick Victorian duplex for which they ordered custom fitted BROWN vinyl windows (seriously, them not being stark white and also appropriately dimensioned made a huge difference), but it still would have looked an order of magnitude better with restored original windows (which, to be fair, looked rotten) or wood replicas.

Way too often, especially when you have special windows like arched ones, this poo poo happens:



Hereís the main gable on our house:

That poor arched window is irredeemably rotten (on top of being very poorly painted). Itís going to get replaced with an exact replica because I refuse to cheap out and replace with rectangular vinyl trash like everyone else.

tl;dr: I canít shut the gently caress up about old house windows

corgski
Feb 6, 2007



I appreciate this old house window chat. Our house was entirely redone with the cheapest, shittiest white vinyl windows at some point in the past and Iím looking forward to the day I get to rip every last one of them out and put proper dark wood back in.

Also compared to most storm window systems the ones for these vinyl windows are just irredeemably terrible. They couldnít even be bothered to miter the screen frames and fit them together properly and just used brittle plastic clips to hold the screens together.

corgski fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Apr 9, 2021

NomNomNom
Jul 20, 2008
Please Work Out

I redid a bathroom over the summer and replaced an old aluminum window with a cheap pvc unit I picked up at home depot (in stock, and it fit!)

Couldn't be happier, I shimmed it square and plumb and it opens with a finger. Maybe your installers suck?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

^^^^^^^^^
Aluminum windows also suck in old houses. They can be cool in modern or mid-century when done right, but they'll never quite look right in something built for wood weight and pully windows.

Queen Victorian posted:


tl;dr: I canít shut the gently caress up about old house windows

Mostly same. I live in CA though, hence the worry. All my windows are white and loving proud for no good reason. It's like a goddamn klan meeting.
Best I can tell Pella Reserve, in all wood, is the closest to a proper window I can get that is "energy efficient."
My house was a complete to the studs gut 8 years ago, so I'm pretty sure all the original hardware is gone, unfortunately. It also means I have drywall instead of plaster which is super convenient and also a bummer.

nm fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Apr 9, 2021

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018



corgski posted:

I appreciate this old house window chat. Our house was entirely redone with the cheapest, shittiest white vinyl windows at some point in the past and Iím looking forward to the day I get to rip every last one of them out and put proper dark wood back in.

you and me both. Even though we still have about half of the original windows (all of which are in good condition except for the aforementioned rotten one), we are missing every last piece of stained glass. We learned from neighbors that they were extracted and sold off around Ď99 when the old guy whoíd lived here for 50 years got moved into a nursing home. Back then, the neighborhood was in a rough state and the house was pretty much worthless, so it was worthwhile for the heirs liquidating the estate to sell off the stained glass separately. Makes me bitter because now I have to spend five figures on new stained glass. Still, said neighbors were friends with the old guy and were really happy that the house eventually found its way into the hands of us Victorian-loving owner-occupiers and not a shitbag property investor.



This should be magnificent stained glass...

But then again since we will (eventually) be commissioning new stained glass (because gently caress trying to salvage a huge landing piece of those exact dimensions plus five matching transoms), we can do something super nerdy like depicting a scene from the Silmarillion or sneaking in a Triforce.

quote:

Also compared to most storm window systems the ones for these vinyl windows are just irredeemably terrible. They couldnít even be bothered to miter the screen frames and fit them together properly and just used brittle plastic clips to hold the screens together.

Wow that sucks. We have pretty low quality poo poo but at least the screens are mitered, dear lord.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Queen Victorian posted:



This should be magnificent stained glass...

While I know it should be stained and and that would be glorious, I love that the etching matches the staircase details.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Queen Victorian posted:

you and me both. Even though we still have about half of the original windows (all of which are in good condition except for the aforementioned rotten one), we are missing every last piece of stained glass. We learned from neighbors that they were extracted and sold off around Ď99 when the old guy whoíd lived here for 50 years got moved into a nursing home. Back then, the neighborhood was in a rough state and the house was pretty much worthless, so it was worthwhile for the heirs liquidating the estate to sell off the stained glass separately. Makes me bitter because now I have to spend five figures on new stained glass. Still, said neighbors were friends with the old guy and were really happy that the house eventually found its way into the hands of us Victorian-loving owner-occupiers and not a shitbag property investor.

Basically everything everyone did to houses before like 2010 is just loving criminal.
I almost understand why windows got hosed up. Finding a guy to replace a few sashes even 10-15 years ago was tough. Everyone just told you to buy new windows. The only reason my parenst found a guy is my uncles one of the best woodturners in the country and knew the few people doing other resto work.
Now there's several people who do it locally, but man it was annoying even recently. Also, sometime around 1960, I think they stopped telling people how to service wood windows which led to a ton of jammed frames and dryrot.

ErikTheRed
Mar 12, 2007

My name is Deckard Cain and I've come on out to greet ya, so sit your ass and listen or I'm gonna have to beat ya.

Anyone have a suggestion for window screens for old school push out steel casement windows?

Most of our windows have a mix of retractable screens, some with metal parts and some plastic. Some of the plastic ones have broken, specifically the clips at the bottom that hold them in place when they're fully extended. It looks like most of the retractable ones available now are now custom and very expensive.

Toebone
Jul 1, 2002

Start remembering what you hear.

My house has amazing 1830s wooden windows everywhere except the living room, where some poor misguided soul replaced them with terrible, cheap aluminum ones. I can't even open them without something popping out of the frame half the time so they mostly stay behind curtains.

Spring Heeled Jack
Feb 25, 2007


My 100yr old house is a mix of wooden windows with wood storm windows, aluminum storm windows, no storm windows, and a few new vinyl windows.

As much as I would like to keep the old stuff I want to be able to open the ones in the living room. So Iíd need to take them out of the frame and clean them up/ get them unstuck, build or buy screens so the cat doesnít run off, etc.

And thereís the always present fear of Ďlead paintí with young children, especially when you can see old paint rubbed off collecting into a fine dust in the window frame.

shirts and skins
Jun 25, 2007

You never know
just how you look
through other people's eyes


Queen Victorian posted:



tl;dr: I can’t shut the gently caress up about old house windows

This is all really fascinating information, thank you for sharing. Like with pretty much every aspect of homeownership I have a lot to learn. Luckily this is more of a short to mid term project because while the vinyl windows are lovely and tough to open they're not an emergency yet.

Interestingly enough, the family room has a set of big, nearly floor to ceiling windows that were shaded by these ghastly curtains. We took the curtains down and realized that unlike the rest of the house they appear to be relatively new wood frame Pellas. A very pleasant surprise.



Would that we could do the rest of the house up like this. The place was built in 1956 and is too new for the gorgeous old stuff you're looking at, but I now feel inspired to look around for anything that will look actually nice for the rest of the place.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.



Fun fact, a £10 can of spray vinyl dye can change the colour of your uPVC frames.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

cakesmith handyman posted:

Fun fact, a £10 can of spray vinyl dye can change the colour of your uPVC frames.

Yes, unless you paint them too dark (and it doesn't need to be that dark) and then they're ruined forever. Plus if you had any warranty on them, bye bye.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


nm posted:

I'm honestly unsure if you can replace modern windows with old single pane windows legally here, but man, it's kind of a dream. I'll probably end up paying $texas for pella reserves. This house (turns 100 next year) just looks like such poo poo with the vinyl windows that even if they didn't suck I'd be looking to replace them.

Inside mounts?

Why single pane? single pane windows became obsolete in the 1800s around here. Traditional wooden two pane windows exist so there's no reason at all to go with single pane if you want a traditional wooden window. I wouldn't even put single pane in my garage.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Queen Victorian posted:

We want to replace a number of lovely vinyl windows in our house with proper wood ones, and the millwork guy we talked to steered us away from double pane because theyíre waaay more expensive and have a 20-30 year shelf life due to the seal. Old school wooden single pane windows are much simpler to build/repair and will last well over a century if you (and your descendants) regularly maintain them, and if you do stuff like insulate the attic and install storm panes and good window treatments, you can easily make up for the energy savings you lose by not having that second pane.

What? Two pane windows last as long as single pane windows, maintaining the seals in a traditional wooden two pane window is part of regular upkeep and can be done with stuff you get from a hardware store for a few euros, it's proven and efficient technolgy from the 1800s, these old windows are efficient to the point that studies showed you wouldn't recoup the costs by moving to modern three pane windows (the norm here).

And the energy savings are huge if you live anywhere with a winter, can't be offset with any amount of ceiling insulation where I live. And also if you live anywhere with a hot summer it saves on AC costs.

EDIT:
Now I imagine then most old windows in the US and UK are a single pane, and the wall is thicker than the window, the window sits in line with the outside of the wall, so you have a space between the outer pane and inner pane. Thus it should be possible to retrofit an interior wooden frame to the window and suddenly you have a traditional two pane window. This will give you a huge energy boost even if there's issues with the sealing. Over here they are removable or on hinges (outside windows also hinged) so you can open them. Really most windows ought to be able to be turned into a pseudo-scandi window for a decent boost in efficiency and the outside can remain original and untouched.

Edit 2: Some examples of these old style windows, putting decorations between the panes is common, often a material that helps regulate moisture


Modern swedish reproductions with the interior frames off, that turns the window into a single pane window, not really a done thing in winter, but in the summer it might be removed, older windows did not have the interior pane on a hinge so if you wanted to easily open the windows in summer, you removed the interior pane and put it back come autumn:




So this might not be traditional victorian or old US style, but I think the concept could be carried over and be used to modernize old single pane windows, without wholesale replacement or buying dodgy windows with solutions that sound like they don't work longterm.

His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Apr 9, 2021

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

I'm looking at triple pane windows for my next upgrade, but my weather is closer to His Divine Shadow's than California goons. Anyone have a good recommendation? I've got decent older windows that are casement, but the mechanisms are all going to poo poo. All of the newer sliding vinyl windows look fine but all of the mechanisms are busted and in a really good wind storm they pop open with a nudge. It was windy and I look outside and the cat is chilling on the roof. The cost is fairly high, but I think the savings would justify it with the geothermal heat.

Danhenge
Dec 16, 2005


His Divine Shadow posted:

What? Two pane windows last as long as single pane windows, maintaining the seals in a traditional wooden two pane window is part of regular upkeep and can be done with stuff you get from a hardware store for a few euros, it's proven and efficient technolgy from the 1800s, these old windows are efficient to the point that studies showed you wouldn't recoup the costs by moving to modern three pane windows (the norm here).

And the energy savings are huge if you live anywhere with a winter, can't be offset with any amount of ceiling insulation where I live. And also if you live anywhere with a hot summer it saves on AC costs.

As I understand it, you can't usually fit double pane windows inside typical sash windows found in very old houses. However, a good set of storm windows serve as your second pane if they're well-installed. They're not as efficient as sealed double pane windows while the seals last, but they work well enough.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




I'll be doing some cheap vinyl windows to replace teh lovely badly in need of glazing (yes I know I can glaze on my own) windows I have that exist in my house. My bedroom is the only one without new windows and they're old and leaky and awful. Some Calked in vinyl windows no matter the quality (well matter but some basic ones) should still be an improvement over 60 year old wood winders

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Danhenge posted:

As I understand it, you can't usually fit double pane windows inside typical sash windows found in very old houses. However, a good set of storm windows serve as your second pane if they're well-installed. They're not as efficient as sealed double pane windows while the seals last, but they work well enough.

The traditional scandinavian window is basically two single pane windows, my suggestion was to add another single pane window behind the existing window (whatever it might be). So it sounds a lot like this storm window setup you mention. I thought storm windows went on the outside of the house though.

So it should be doable then if I understood you correctly. Sure that won't be as effective as fitting a modern window with sealed double panes. But you know every step towards efficiency yields a smaller result than the one before it. Starting from ground zero (single pane window) means the first step will be the easiest step and also have the largest single increase in efficiency.

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SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




Motronic posted:

Think carefully about what other corners have been cut when you see a gigantic, obvious thing like that which is so bad you're already talking about how to fix it just from the pictures you saw because clearly nobody wants to live with such a poo poo job. Then think about how the current owners are exactly the kind of people to care that little.

At first I thought everyone was just talking about the large pipe in the back corner near the toilet, and was thinking it wasn't that bad... then I saw the other piping, and holy poo poo, yeah, that's some lazy effort there.

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